You're born, you die. How important can anything really be?

[Skip Intro]

I would elaborate, but I think the question said it.

Nobody despises the moron in chief we deal with now, or his cheneyfied, rummiefied, pearified cancer on our demcoracy more than I do, but, in my present state of mind, I have to ask - what's it all for?

And that's not definitive of life, or modern life, or my life - or your life, is it? And don't you know its ALL fleeting? All.

So what is a measure, and why is that a measure?

And can I try again?

[CanuckAmok]

1. hmmm...I think anything which dictates the span of my life...

is important. I'd like to live forever, or at least a few more decades.

BushCo running the ship reduces the liklihood of my survival, so I think it's important to oust them.

[wtmusic]

2. Really Deep Thoughts

We've got 150,000 soldiers and 24M Iraqis whose life may be more fleeting than ours.

That's a good reason why!

[Skip Intro]

4. oh, I agree comrade

what is being done in the name of freedom and democracy by these traitorous imposters sickens me to no end, and I have several posts here that make that point. Innocent, heroic, patriotic men and women among us that go simply because they are called - makes my eyes water when I realize how they are being used by this evil regime.

I guess my whole thought was, life and death, and I dunno.


I hate george w bush, and his gang.

But then there's death, you know. And that's what I was wondering about when I posted.

Isn't everything really just a mattter of how we spend our time between birth and death?

[Leftist78]

3. The truth is

in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. In the large picture none of this matters. we're all too small to really matter, but I still want shrub out of office.

I'm an athiest/agnostic (long story it really depends on the question and who's asking it), and the way I see it, all of this only matters because of those who will come after us. Beyond that I don't guess it really matters all that much.

In a million years, nobody will remeber any of this and most if not all of the significance of what happens now is gone, but the people who come 20, 50, 100 years from now will definatly be affected by what happens now, and that's enough for me.

[cyclezealot]

5. What mattered 2500 years ago affects now.

So,we do matter. We are a part of the grand scheme. yes, we are infitesimal,but we do still contribute. The small people who fought Hitler in the Rose incidents will always be some footnote is some dusty history book. We can be an unimportnat footnote to a footnote. With computers,maybe nobody will totally be forgotten.
You are a part of the footsolidiers who oust Dubya, you have done much to change the world..With world climate change, nuclar proliferation don't see how what you say and do is unimportant. We have some significant work to do to make the world a better place.
There are many footnotes left of Greek scholars who paved the way for the beginnings of democracy and liberty for some. Living forever might be boring. Imagine an eternity of Bush's and their ilk..
Who will win out Joseph McCarthys' or the Eleanor Roosevelts'. We can help effect that outcome.
If we have no one to leave our paulty savings to- it will be the "Nation" Associates fund and the ACLU. Hope they write our names in permament ink in some donor's log.
History will go on as long as Humankind survives. That is our mission. As long as humankind make the planet a more livable place. Then maybe it would best be left to the animals, if we don't deserve the title 'civilized.'
Music will survive. Music can be our message to other generations.
One candidate I would nominate..Richie Havens "The Great Mandella.'

[Skip Intro]

6. I agree, and this hurts to ask, but toward what end?

An end we'll see?

The same end?

And end nonetheless, tho, eh?

My validation will come from some unexpected source.

And then, it will, in totality, be meaningless.

URRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH.


Guess that's why they make beer.

edited to remove temporarily offensive language

---------

oh dear god, another further edit. how poinltess. I'm proving my suggested point, yes?

How much could this possibly matter?

[VOX]

7. You are a unique aperture through which the universe perceives itself...

It could be argued that you shine the sun, you color everything you see, and that the tree falls in the forest for you alone.

As has been said so wisely so many times, "You are it."

[0rganism]

8. That's why you must use an arbitrary scoring system

Number of orgasms, for instance, or mastered recipes. Or traffic stops. Whatever it takes.

Some people go with number of offspring, whether for obvious evolutionary purposes or obscure religious ones.

Add up your extra balls on the Black Knight pinball table at the corner bar.

What's the largest number of midgets you can fit in a phone booth.

You gotta have something that counts, otherwise you'll just wither away and become another statistic on someone else's scorecard.

Sure, in a million years the Earth will have shrugged humanity off like a bad dream and started over with something else. Are you planning to be here for a million years? No? Then commence the jiggling!

[Skip Intro]

9. oh oh oh

but dude, I'll just be a meaningless statistic no matter what I do, and so will you. That is, a meaninglesss statistic to the brothers and sisters who meaninglessly count such totally trivial things.

All Is Vanity.

[0rganism]

10. So? Pull the wool over your own eyes

If it gets you off, collect meaningless statistics of other people to prove your point. In fact, whatever you do to enhance your score, make sure it gets you off.

The saving grace of being mortal self-aware humans in an uncaring universe is our ability to attain states of great fascination through contemplating meaningless trivia. Do you care what kind of meaningless stat you are to someone else? Hell No! Your scoring system is the only one that counts.

[Skip Intro]

11. Organism...can I ask you a few things?

Hope that was a yes...

personally to you man, you have the cuthlu (?) as an avatar - that must mean something, right? The evil even evil fears, yes? What do you really think about this fleeting amusement?

I mean, this isn't the place for me to have a separation from so-called reality, but listen to what you're saying. I'm getting from you that as long as somebody counts you, you'll be valid or eternal or meaningful or something. Or, if, out of some mechanism, we - you, me and us all, individually, we decide to do the counting - of whatever (what "score" are you talking about?) - what real meaning does any of it have? ????


Isn't it all fear-induced self-illusion? Isn't it all a fleeting mirage?

sorry...

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on edit - you know, this is way more than I can handle, I have to sleep, right?

*sigh*

[0rganism]

12. Uh, sure, I think...

> you have the cuthlu (?) as an avatar - that must mean something, right?

I've found H.P. Lovecraft's stories to be entertaining. Each of his books scores 20 points. (j/k)

> What do you really think about this fleeting amusement?

It's fleeting, so you better make sure it's amusing. Think of it as a roller coaster ride at an amusement park. It's short. It's crazy. There's no "good reason" for it, in any deep ethical or metaphysical sense. But you got your ticket, you stood in line, you got in the cart, so what do you do? Well the way I see it, you can either spend the whole ride thinking about how short and meaningless the ride itself is, or you can imagine that the twists and turns are really thrilling and dangerous. And that second idea is already fairly compelling, everything about the ride is designed to encourage that fantasy.

> I'm getting from you that as long as somebody counts you,
> you'll be valid or eternal or meaningful or something.

Not really, but it's more fun to imagine that you matter, don't you think? IMHO, it's only one's own count that matters to oneself, but if you count other people counting you as important, then that adds to your overall score. You set the rules. You can change the rules any time. It doesn't matter.

> what "score" are you talking about?

Whatever score you want to talk about.

> what real meaning does any of it have?

Whatever meaning you assign to it.

> Isn't it all fear-induced self-illusion? Isn't it all a fleeting mirage?

Perhaps, but would that be an excuse not to try to enjoy some part of it?

We are, for whatever it's worth, gifted with a human form at a time when humanity covers and nominally dominates our habitat. We shape our surroundings to suit our comforts. We are permitted a wide range of exercise for our conscious volitions, i.e. freewill. Take the time that is yours and do what you like, keeping in mind the social parameters within which you operate have (inconsequential) consequences. For the most part, those consequences operate on materials with an assigned value; the less you value those things, the free-er you are from consequences.

Think of the movie "Fight Club", if you like. The narrator progresses from a state of being wholly governed by his material surroundings to one of being free from those surroundings to one of controlling and destroying those surroundings. These are all matters of assigning (or rejecting) values. What changed? Only the balance of outlook. The materials themselves were always the same.

Consider also Hamlet. He lives in a fundamentally moral world, one of great tragedy, which he perpetuates upon the rest of the cast. Conversely, his friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (whom he later has executed) exist in a meaningless world bereft of consequence -- they are so inconsequential that their deaths are mere afterthought to the play. Whose outlook more resembles your own?

HAMLET: Denmark's a prison.

ROSENCRANTZ: Then is the world one.

HAMLET: A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.

ROSENCRANTZ: We think not so, my lord.

HAMLET: Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison.

ROSENCRANTZ: Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
narrow for your mind.

HAMLET: O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
have bad dreams.

GUILDENSTERN: Which dreams indeed are ambition, for the very
substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.

HAMLET: A dream itself is but a shadow.

ROSENCRANTZ: Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a
quality that it is but a shadow's shadow.

(Hamlet, Act II scene ii)
edit - Note the common thread that runs through the play, that the "sane" characters interpret the ramblings of the "insane" according to their own inclinations. Rozencrantz and Guildenstern call Hamlet ambitious because they, themselves, are ambitious.

[Skip Intro]

13. danke - and lol

thanks man.

for what I'm not sure exactly, but for something for sure.

"I've found H.P. Lovecraft's stories to be entertaining. Each of his books scores 20 points. (j/k)"

lol!

I did ask, didn't I?

And as the sun wakes the East coast, and I realize I'm yet another day closer to the inevitable (damn, I don't ususally greet days this way, really), I realize we can spread characters around on this definitely fleeting medium and somehow make everythng ok.

And I'm with you. I don't like this gloom stuff, I'm an optimist, goddammit! Last night tho, then today, *sigh*...

Shakespeare (sp?) understood, that's clear. Wonder what his last words were...

[NicoleM]

14. What I think.

You're born, you live, you die. In the long run, few if any of us "matter."

BUT, while we're all here, we have the capacity for joy and contentment and pain and suffering. I think the true measure of a life is, did I not make anybody else's life worse? Did I make anybody else's life better? Did I help somebody who needed it?

I think that's all you can do in this life that really matters in the end. Anyway, you gotta fill the time up somehow.

[mikehiggins]

15. Go have some kids

Join the party.

[enough]

16. Think of it as music.

It begins, it ends, it has no particular "meaning."

But when you're in it (playing, dancing, or listening) all the questions disappear.

That's the way life is.

[Leados]

17. You must make your own meaning.

Besides, The Oracle tells us that we already know what we're going to choose, we just don't understand why. ;)