Gosh, I'm just so sad

[Kenroy]

been watching CNN for two days. It's heartbreaking.

I've contributed to the causes... I've sent emails to everybody at work encouraging contributions to the cause... I can't really do anything else that will practically help people.

And I'm heart-broken. I love New Orleans. And it's going away.

I'm sorry - I'm not a lounge poster, but I feel I just had to bitch about how painful it is to watch all this.

One of the greatest cities in the world is being destroyed. Some of the crappiest cities have been destroyed (Biloxi? Gulfport?), and that's still sad, because people were hurt and killed. I'm being flip about those cities... but I don't know them.

But the death of New Orleans just kills me.

[Skittles]

1. I am with you, Kenroy

I feel desperately sad, and angry, about what is happening in NO.

[punpirate]

2. Well, maybe you can start by...

... not assuming it's the death of the city.

It's not good. Everyone knows that, but it doesn't mean that these events spell either the death or the dissolution of that city and its traditions. It means a longer time before the city recovers.

Cheers.

[Kenroy]

3. I'm sorry

but I think New Orleans is gone.

It was an amazing city, but it would be folly to rebuild it.

A sub-sea-level city stuck between a huge lake and a huge river is untenable.

And.... the hurricanes will increase due to global warming. It would be really stupid to rebuild a city that will be destroyed again within the next ten years.

I adore New Orleans, but it would be pure craziness to rebuild it.

[punpirate]

4. Well, what do you want?

What would you like to see?

Failure or renascence?

What will you work for and believe in? Failure or success?

[Kenroy]

6. What would work for me is

a failure to spend tens of billions of dollars to build a city that gets wiped out next year. That would be stupid.

New Orleans will be wiped out again - current climate change almost insures the storms will come sooner rather than later.

Why go through this again?

[punpirate]

8. Ah, I see, you put a price on everything...

... including history. New Orleans is 287 years old. Venice puts more into its preservation every year than you want to put into the preservation of New Orleans after a major hurricane.

Yes, I see.

It's all about dollars. Ever spent a day in New Orleans--not as a tourist, but as a visitor? Spent a little time with the ordinary people--hung out in diners, walked the streets, talked to the people?

I think not. I have. I kind of like the city and its flavor and its inhabitants. I don't put a dollar price on that.

Some things don't have a dollar price. Some things, like Louis Armstrong's birthplace and nurturing ground, have a value beyond the dollar.

Cheers.

[Kenroy]

10. Dollars are less important to me

than the loss of life and loss of history and culture.

I adore New Orleans. It's one of my favorite cities on Earth. To me, it sits in America's crown as a jewel along with San Francisco, New York, Atlanta and Charleston.

I'm not being dismissive of the value of New Orleans, and I'm sort of hurt you'd imply that. You want to talk about the value of Louis Armstrong in my life? Bring it on.

How hard do I have to explain how much I value New Orleans?

But....

Does it make sense in 2005 to build a city below sea-level that's stuck between a lake and a river that requires huge levees and pumps in order to survive? And in a hurricane zone?

[punpirate]

12. You love it...

... you say, but you're putting a price on its survival, and are saying the price isn't worth it, not me.

You live with that estimation.

[Kenroy]

13. I don't understand your point

are you saying any history is worth infinite cost? Louis Armstrong's adult home was in Queens, ifrc... should we spend BILLIONS to preserve it?

Don't diminish my love for New Orleans. This is not an argument about how much we love the city.

This is a discussion about how REASONABLE it is to rebuild a sub-sea-level city stuck between a lake and a river in a hurricane zone.

I'm also not discussing survival, as you assert. I will happily give a lot of what I have to ensure the survival of any people in N.O., or anywhere else for that matter.


But nothing has infinite value, even Louis Armstrong. How many lives should we sacrifice to honor him? How many billions should we spend? Don't pretend you love Armstrong more than I do, or that I don't understand his value - that's a weak argument.

But even Armstrong's history can be destroyed for good reason. And the fact is, his history HAS been destroyed. We're just witnesses to it.

[punpirate]

14. No, you want this to be a discussion about what's reasonable...

... on your terms.

You think this is about money. It's not. We spend far more on destroying things around the world, as you should know, even if you don't.

The people of New Orleans right now know it's not about money, even though you want it to be.

It's about their home, and our history. You have decided to set aside your respect for that out of monetary concerns, and I don't agree with that--we spend more money every season to replace the expensive homes of the wealthy in Florida after each hurricane, but we can't somehow afford to rebuild a city of historical importance which is the home of many poor people?

Tell you what. You go on advocating the demise of New Orleans because you fear it may cost you a dollar or two. In the meantime, the city will be rebuilt and, in a few years, will be back to its funky self.

As it should be. :)

[Kenroy]

15. I'm sorry you perceive my view

as advocating the demise of New Orleans.

But I know this: Billions of dollars of federal dollars will go into rebuilding a city that is likely to be destroyed again in a few years. And if it's not a few years, it's dozens of years. But it's inevitable.


I have already spent a lot more than a "few" dollars to help the cause. I have donated substantial amounts to the Red Cross and www.noahswish.org , which helps abandoned animals.

I have shed countless tears over the people and animals who have been hurt in this storm, as well as the loss of a city I adore.

But please explain to me how it makes sense to spend 10s of billions of dollars to rebuild a city that is likely to be destroyed again within the next 10 years.

[punpirate]

16. No, you explain to me...

... why you put a price on something you say you love.

I'm not doing that. I'm saying that it will survive, and you want it to die--because you think it's not worth the money.

Now, you keep evading this point. You keep on bringing up money as if it's the defining issue, but then, you don't want to be responsible for that point of view.

You keep bringing up the futility of it, despite the fact that you say you care about the city. That means, to me, that you don't care about it in the last and final analysis.

You can argue this point all day long, and I'm not going to be convinced. New Orleans will survive, despite your best efforts to kill it for the sake of the almighty dollar. You might ask yourself why you're defending this point of view of yours, considering that you care so much for the city.

You want to be a compassionate assassin. There's no such thing.

[Kenroy]

17. Your characterization

that "I want it to die" is horribly wrong.

I'm heartbroken about it.

You want to pretend that my only concern is money, but that's unfair. I could equally ask if you would spend quadrillions of dollars for a lollipop. Both characterizations are unfair.

My question is a practical one, and is, in fact, colored by my love for the city of New Orleans. I want the city to survive... but:

Does it make sense in this day and age to build a city below sea-level that's wedged between a river, a lake, and a river delta?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

5. Equally sad... especially at the callous attitudes coming out...

WHile the RW deflects criticism by blaming the poor for being "too stupid to evacuate," so many of our progressives are silent, misinformed, or perceive attention given to the situation as "ghoulish voyeurism." May God help those people, because it doesn't seem as though a large segment of Americans will.....

[LunaSea]

7. Atlanta was once toast....

Remember?

[Kenroy]

11. How so?

It suffered a big fire and invasion...

But was it under water for a month? Was it consistently at risk for future flooding? Was it below sea-level?

[izzie]

9. Question? Will the Govt. side with the Ins. Co? In this way

The water is not the hurricane so will not pay for water in homes.That may be one thing to help the city come back or not come back.

[Kenroy]

19. Interesting question...

I hope, of course, that the insurance companies will meet their obligations.

But then, I don't trust insurance companies as far as I can throw them.

[LynneSin]

20. New Orleans will NOT be going away

What doesn't kill us will only make us stronger and I feel that NO will be back and even better than ever. I never thought NYC would recover from 9/11 and they did - I think NOLA will be back and I for one am definately going to do my part by helping where I can!

[Trigger Hippie]

21. I'm very sad, too.

I can't believe I'll never see New Orleans again as she was. Even if they do rebuild, it won't be the one I visited as a child and loved to party in as an adult. :cry:

[rbnyc]

22. I love New Orleans too.

:(

It's very sad.

Welcome to the Lounge. This is where I come for support too. (And for quizzes, kitten pictures and cowbell!)

[Terran]

23. I have to agree that N.O. is not dead (yet)

You forget (or did not know) that the levees of New Orleans were engineered to withstand only a Category 3 storm surge. There's no reason why the city cannot be recovered and a better (i.e., more realistic) set of levees built.

I also doubt very much that given the culture and history and size of New orleans that its people, institutions and corporations will simply agree to abandon it.