HELP! Need links to challenge a Fundie student

[playahata1]

who thinks that America is a "Christian" nation, and that the Christian Bible is the ONLY source of truth, damn the Koran, the Torah, the Book of Mormon, the Bhavad-Gita, the Vedas, the Upanishads, etc., etc., etc.

Someone gave me some links last week, which I had printed out but have misplaced. Your help is much appreciated. Thanks.

[Hawkeye-X]

1. Tell the Fundie dickwad

to look up the Treaty of Tripoli

Hawkeye-X

[playahata1]

3. Thanks.

n/t

[La_Serpiente]

2. I don't know

but tell him that there were Pilgrims, Quakers, Catholics, Protistants, and everyone else here.

Tell him he is being an absolutist and puritanical in his beliefs and that his views are ensync with the views of radical Islam - both are fundamentalist.

Here is the Treaty of Tripoli

http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/tripoli.html

“Article 11. As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries” (p. 365).

[Warpy]

4. I went to high school in the babble belt

...and I found the best way to get them to leave me alone was to outquote 'em.

Too bad I didn't have this handy resource:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Facts about the deism practiced by most of the wild-eyed revolutionaries who founded this country won't sway a true believer, neither will quotes from Madison and Jefferson denouncing the chains religion place on the human spirit.

Rubbing their noses in their bibles is the only way to get a small, irritating grain of doubt to be pushed into their shells of fanaticism. It's their only hope to become human like the rest of us.

Good luck.

[Az]

5. Some links

From the Freedom From Religion site http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.html

The internet infidels site in general is a good tool
www.infidels.org

In case the fundie decides to go creationist on you
http://www.talkorigins.org/

And finally
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html
Specifically
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice that the very first thing, before speech, before press, long before guns and anything else come freedom from government endorsed religion.

Specifically 99.999% of America could be of the same denomination of xianity and the government would still not be xian. Simply put the government governs over secular matters. Matters of the mind are left to the people to freely explore on their own. Its the ultimate freedom. Freedom of mind. Without which no other freedoms make sense.

[ironflange]

7. Try to sneak this one in

http://landoverbaptist.org/

:evilgrin:

[sam sarrha]

6. You are wasting your time. Reason doesn't have much effect on cult

brainwashing. The cults of Abraham are responsible for about 75% of the wars/conflicts today. You really have delusions of grandeur if you think you can convert one of these people. you must be a young person... the rest of us know better. As a Buddhist I feel that whatever belief makes a person more positive, loving and compassionate..to ANY degree! is good for that person and the rest of us. please reflect on your motivation for wanting to change him. What if you convince this guy his religion is worng... and it is the only thing keeping him becoming a serial killer/rapist/child molester... will you share the negative Karma for his resulting destructive actions because your EGO needed to prove itself superior to his for what ever reason...??? I like the Taoist descriptions of "leading while following" The Buddhist approach is through 'Skillful Means' which involves a lot of meditation and study it is serious stuff.. be careful, work on yourself first.

[playahata1]

10. I am 36 and a community college professor.

She is 17, technically still in high school but enrolled here as an early-admissions/dual-enrollment student. (She told me that she has all of her h.s. credits, but has decided to wait so she can march with her friends this coming May.) Thus she is still living under her parents' roof and thus has had no opportunity to think for herself. I am concerned because I also have a Muslim woman (who, BTW, is one of this girl's writing workshop group partners; they get along well) and a Jewish woman in my freshman comp class. Who is she to say that her book is the ONLY source of truth, the Koran and the Torah be damned?

I am NOT trying to convert anyone. I am just trying to get her to see things from a different perspective -- which to my mind does not equal having to give up your beliefs. I see my job as a teacher as getting people to see themselves and the world around them in more than one way. Yes, I realize that I am not going to change everyone, but still, education for me is more than just imparting the skills necessary to graduate and get a J-O-B. I am not making this personal, but I am afraid that this country is becoming a theocracy.

[Az]

13. Tricky

The simple fact is America is the land of the free. Freedom starts in the mind. If our minds are not free then nothing else is. Thus the Government of the USA stands for freedom of thought. It cannot impose a belief on a person. The majority of people can certainly stand up and proclaim the beliefs as they see fit. But they cannot do this in the guise of elected representitives.

[pansypoo53219]

8. don' forget

the Enlightenment movement.

[northzax]

9. i have two quotes for you:

Ezekial 11:12 And ye shall know that I am the LORD: for ye have not walked in My statutes, neither executed My judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that are round about you.

Luke 21:25 Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

[playahata1]

12. What do you mean here?

I can understand the second, but where does the first fit into all this?

[Az]

14. It means

That we have not lived by his laws and judgements. Instead we have made our own.

[TrogL]

11. click my signature

[MissMarple]

15. Biblical marriage is not just one man and one woman.

In our local independent newspaper, The Colorado Springs Independent, the local free thinkers take out ad space to voice their points and opinions. One of the October issues had a piece refuting the marriage amendment proponents trying to officially define marriage as between one man and one woman. There is no link that I could find, probably because it is an ad. However, the writer mentions the 4 wives and 300 concubines of, perhaps David, in the old testament, the call for killing a bride if she is found not to be a virgin, and several other things most Christian fundamentalists would sooner ignore. Also Leviticus has quite a long list of proscribed things that the fundies only selectively adhere to and in a quite limited way. I am not really up on things biblical, but a Bible concordance can help you locate some interesting contradictions.

But fundies are capable of awesome cognitive dissonance. Walk softly, or you'll scare her away.

:D