Anyone else get their account cleaned out by fraud/debit pin # theft?

[henslee]

My bud just got 2500 cleaned out of his his B of A Bank account through a series of unauthorized $400. withdrawals (once a day for six days) He hadn't used his card for a week. The fraud division said some of it was store purchases, most were ATM withdrawals. He has never given his pin to anyone . How do they do this? If this can happen, what does this say about using a debit or credit card over the net?

He said that he will be reimbursed if they are convinced it was fraud...How long does this take ?

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. He is lucky if he has other money. Lots of people would be in the street

after something like that.

[henslee]

3. I believe it would take at least 3 months before he was out on the street

eviciton process and all.... And no, he doesn't really have other money, except for a water jug full of change and whats in his sofa.

[henslee]

6. never told you this ductape but. you have the bestt handle on the board.

honest... I was on the bus thinking how cool it was. Am I pathetic? Why can't I think more about imp. things like making money. (on edit)

[DuctapeFatwa]

14. LOL Thanks!

:hi:

[rustydog]

2. Shouldn't take long..

Banks have investigators. if any of the transactions were at ATMs, there is a photograph of the perp!
proof your bud didn't do it and proof of who did.
Has the police been contacted yet?

[henslee]

4. dont know.

[terrya]

5. I got involved in a different kind of fraud, last week.

Stupidly...emphasis on the word stupid...I applied for an online loan for people with bad credit (my credit is atrocious). I had to come up with "insurance" as collateral for the loan. Wait, it gets worse. I had to send it via Western Union. This was to the tune of $1500 for a $5000 loan, for 36 months, at 8% interest. Of course, because the $5K was going to be wired into my checking account, so I gave them my checking account number, the routing number. Oh, BTW. I also gave them my SS number and drivers license number.

The loan papers I received via fax belongs to a non-existant bank, of course. In Toronto. Therefore, I'll never see the $1500 I wired to them. But I've reported this to the authorities. And I discovered this kind of scam is getting quite common.

I called my bank about the bastards having my checking account info. I was told that unless I gave them my password, that it should be no problem. The bank is quite scrupulous about insuring that non-authorized people (like the ones who scammed me) do not access to my checking account.

I'm so sorry to hear about your case. It sort of goes in line with identity theft, which from my reading is getting more and more common. I hope you're completely reimbursed. Good luck, my friend.

[Demobrat]

8. Close your checking account. Open another one.

At the same bank if you want to, but don't trust them to protect you. And put an alert on your credit bureau accounts, if you haven't already.

[terrya]

11. I did.

I notified the FTC and all pertinent credit agencies. There's a security alert on my SS #.

And the bank suggested that I close this account and open another. I'm going to do that.

Thank you for the tips. I still feel stupid about this.

[henslee]

12. Terrya, that suks. amazin wut u can get talked in 2 when you're desperate.

I am sure you will get past this set back.. It's just cash. You seem quite together (good punctuation!.... good education) We just have to stay sharp. keep a clear head and stay in the moment at all times. Sometimes when faced with a decision, the best thing to do is.... sleep on it.

And it wasnt me who got ripped, it was my best friend, the nicest person, a real gentle spirit who was hanging on by a thread to begin with.

Good luck to you too and everyone.....

[terrya]

13. Thank you, henslee.

Well, you seem quite together also. There's some terrific, really bright people at the DU! You have it right...I was desperate.

The whole episode with your best friend is awful. It...it's part of that "bad things happen to good people" concept. Except, that concept is sadly too real.

Good luck to your friend.

[Logansquare]

7. Fake ATMs

Now the perps don't even have to be there physically. They go into a restaurant or convenience store and convince the owner to allow them to install an ATM and they harvest the PINs electronically.
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/12/16/Consumers/ATMwarning_021216

[Demobrat]

9. Don't ever use a debit card over the net.

Use credit cards only. Once a thief gets the money out of your checking account, it's gone. Fraudulent charges on your credit card get frozen while they're being investigated, and then credited.

[scottcsmith]

18. My bank told me to use a debit card...

I was told that using a debit card was the way to go as I'd only be responsible for the first $50 stolen from the account.

I guess the best advice is to find out the polices your bank and/or credit card companies have regarding credit card theft and what protections you have if your card is stolen, and how much you'd be responsible for.

[Demobrat]

20. With most credit cards you're responsible for 0.

The bank wants you to use the debit card because the credit card companies charge them a transaction fee. When you use a debit card they pay nothing. If you're a PayPal customer, that's why they encourage you so highly to pay with a checking instead of credit account. It saves THEM money. Credit card companies get paid by everybody. Let your bank pay their fare share, and keep your checking account information to yourself.

If you shop online you should have one credit card just for that and you should keep a close eye on it.

[Deja Q]

10. It'll get better, your CREDIT REPORTS are now being housed overseas

And it's hard to impose US laws on foreign countries. Except fraud to skyrocket. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/11/07/MNG4Q2SEAM1.DTL

And be sure to thank bush for allowing and supporting corporate foreign outsourcing. He approves of it so I damn well hope he and his filthy family gets victimized first. And for him and his family, it ain't victimization.

The way corporate america is going, it'll be impossible to get your money back. It'll be OUR responsibility to manage our money. Even though it clearly is the bank's responsibility to keep their systems secure, regardless of the cost. x( Otherwise they are terrorists. They sure as hell are scaring me.

[henslee]

15. you are right... USA is becoming a second rate shithouse country

Wait, what do i mean BECOMING. It is.

[Deja Q]

16. And that's sad...

On the other hand, if bush* wants to give terrorists more freedom to terrorize, so be it. His* corporate buddies are terrorists or worse for even doing what they are dosing.

[scottcsmith]

17. Me too

I smacked myself on the forehead and said "D'oh" when it happened to me, because it was so obvious a scam and I couldn't believe I didn't see it for what it was.

I was the winning bidder on an Ebay auction, and the seller sent me a link to checkout and pay for my item. Here's where I acted stupid:

-- The page was not secure.

That should have been a huge warning sign for me, inputting credit card information on a non-secure web site. So, if you're paying for something online, make sure the page is secure (it'll be https:// instead of http://).

I then entered all my credit card info, including my security code number, and clicked on "send." I immediately got a 404 page not found error message.

Here's a tip: if you can, get a debit card, and use it for online purchases. You'll only be responsible for the first $50 stolen from the account.

I then proceeded to do something so amazingly stupid that I'm ashamed of myself: I sent the seller another payment for the item via PayPal! So this guy not only had my debit card info, he had a cash payment from PayPal.

Nothing happened for a week. I usually check my checking account balance every week. I was looking over the balance when I noticed a couple of charges for small amounts -- like $1.99 -- to what I discovered were porno sites.

You see, the thief was testing the waters, by making a couple of small charges. I think a lot of people don't notice if their balance is off by a couple of dollars.

Since the thief was successful, he made a $49.95 purchase.

It was at that point that I discovered the strange charges to my account.

I took action immediately. I went to the bank, cancelled the debit card, and then notified the three credit bureaus (you can do this online) that I had been the victim of credit card theft.

I lucked out. I was only out $49.95. But other people who had bid on items by this particular seller were not so lucky, and the thief made off with a few thousand dollars.

Another Ebay tip: check the seller's reputation rating. After I had discovered the fraud I looked at the seller's reputation rating and saw that several people had complained about credit card theft.

I'm very vigilant now.

Also, be careful of e-mail scams. They are very common. You'll get an e-mail from what looks to be a reputable business you deal with (like Ebay, or your credit card company) but the e-mail will say they need to verify your information and will have a form to fill out where you'd enter a password and credit card number. NEVER respond to those e-mails. Companies never send out e-mails asking for passwords.

I've gotten two so far from someone pulling an Ebay scam. I forwarded the e-mails to Ebay, but before doing so, I filled out the form with some...well...colorful responses.

If you ever get a strange e-mail, and it sounds fishy, pay a visit to the Urban Legends Reference Pages at http://www.snopes.com. They always have info on all the scams that are circulating.

[Bronco69]

19. I used to work in loss avoidance for a bank.

They will look at the way the card was used in the past. For example, $400 a day for 6 days in a row is very unusual, number of overdrafts (to see what kind of customer you are), basically your customer history. It might take up to 90 days, but could take only 30.

[henslee]

21. tenks bronco.....

[SOteric]

22. What surprises me is

the insistance the the pin wasn't given out. That leaves very few options for how someone could have gotten hold of the pin. ATM's are designed to capture the card after 3 unsuccessful tries at a pin.

If it's possible that he lost or had his wallet stolen, and was foolish enough to leave the pin number in his wallet, that might explain it.

If he gave the pin to someone long ago and forgot having done so, that might be a possibility.

But otherwise, I'm thinking it would have to be an 'inside' job or a case of someone in the bank acting inappropriately to supply the thief with the necessary information.

[targetpractice]

23. This happened to me...

Long story, but here it is...

I live in NYC and in the mid-90's I discovered late on a Saturday (Sun AM) night that I couldn't find my ATM card after using it around midnight. I called my bank's toll-free number and reported the card missing. They said they would send me a new one.

On Sunday, I learned that my account was overdrawn. About $900 had disappeared. I called the bank again and they said they had no record of me reporting the card missing and that SOMEONE I KNOW must have been using my card. They insisted that either I gave them my PIN away or I was careless and SOMEONE I KNOW stole it from me. No record of my early Sun AM call. Huh, that struck me as weird.

On Monday morning, I went to my corner branch to see WTF was going on. The manager insisted that it was my fault for not protecting my PIN, and they showed me a transaction record where my card was used at several ATM locations all over Manhattan within a very short period of time. I pointed out to the branch manager, that whoever was using my card was able to jet all over Manhattan (Chelsea, Columbia, Midtown, East Village, etc.) faster than I thought was humanly possible. She only responded, "Hmm."

The branch manager claimed that absolutely nothing could be done, and they would have to pull the videotapes at the various ATMs to review. This could take weeks! On Saturday night I had gone nightclubbing, so I was beginning to wonder if I had done something really stupid. Whatever, I was stuck with NO money.

Later on Monday afternoon, I got a call from someone who works at my local branch (not the manager) who said they found my card. I rushed down because they were about to close. A customer service rep cheerfully gave me the card and said I forgot to pull it from the machine when I got cash around midnight on Saturday. The ATM sucked in the card and it was retrieved on Monday when they re-stocked it with cash.

Damn my ADD!

Ummm... wait a minute...

If my card had been safely sucked into the machine at midnight then how could it possibly have been used to empty my bank account a few hours later??

The branch manager overheard this conversation and admitted she was "very surprised" that my card was found in her ATM. Nevertheless, there was nothing she could do until the tapes were pulled and the investigation ran its course. It was after 4PM and the branch was now closed.

I was livid and broke. I also was convinced that the person who took my call on Sunday morning (and who didn't record that I had called) had somehow electronically withdrawn money from my account.

On Tuesday morning, I was back in front of the branch manager making my case. No dice. I was put in touch with regional bank managers. Nada. There was nothing that could be done.

Later on Tuesday, a friend suggested I call the New York State Banking Commission and complain. I did so promptly and obtained a reference number. They told me to call my bank and let them know that I reported the incident and it was assigned a case number.

I immediately called my bank's toll-free number again and gave them the NYSBC number. Thirty minutes later the branch manager called me at home and said funds had been fully restored to my account and overdraft fees had be reversed because they had determined that I was not at fault for the withdrawals.

No investigation? No video tape review? I asked what happened and she said she could not provide an answer because it was an INTERNAL ISSUE. I knew it!!

So, the moral of the story: If somebody can electronically jack with my bank account and make it look like actual ATM withdrawals, then I shudder to think what can be done with my vote using a touch screen voting machine.

Oh yeah, and the other moral of the story: Tell your friend to call the state banking commission and ask for their help.

[Habibi]

24. Happened to me

long ago. My wallet had been stolen, and like a dummy, my PIN number was on the back of a wallet photo. Fortunately I'd filed a police report, so the bank knew it was fraud and restored my money pretty quickly.