Grrrr....B&^% on CNN talking about abortion.

[SIU_Blue]

I am a man, and I can understand this. Why is this woman on TV such an idiot? This makes me so damn mad. Talking about how minors should have to have parental consent. Yeah, sure, make the 16 year old runaway get consent from her bible pushing parents for an abortion. No, her body is not hers. Yes, it does belong to her parents. GOD DAM#$@#$ idiots. Sorry, just had to rant.

[Shell Beau]

1. Well what age would you say teens should

have to get consent from their parents?

Would you say that a 13 year old should be able to get an abortion w/o consent from her parents? It is a serious medical procedure.

[Bridget Burke]

2. Most states with parental consent have loopholes...

In Texas, a girl could go to a judge & prove she had a good reason not to get consent from her her parents.

I believe that loophole was closed.

[Shell Beau]

5. What qualified as a good reason

in some of those loopholes? Do you remember any?

If it were my child, I would want to know she had such a serious medical procedure done. I understand a lot of teens are scared to death to tell their parents. :shrug: It is a tough situation.

[Left Is Write]

26. What if that teenager had been abused?

What if her father was the one who got her pregnant? Should she have to ask his permission to have an abortion?

[Shell Beau]

27. No, of course not. For every horrible

case against the parents, there is a case where the parents did nothing wrong. Would you not like to know if your child had a major medical procedure? Especially at a young age such as 13 or 14.

[Left Is Write]

28. Yes, I would. That's why, in my house, we try to keep communication open.

I try avoid the kind of atmosphere that would cause my daughter to hide such a major situation from me.

But I do not agree with parental notification laws, specifically because I see a need to protect the girls who DO have horrible situations such as I described above.

[Shell Beau]

31. Well I do to. And in circumstances such as that,

there should be exceptions. But most parents feel that they have open communication when in fact it isn't as open as they think. That is just how teenagers can be. They feel as if they are grown. I know I did. I had very open relationship with my mom, but I never told her about having sex.

[Left Is Write]

38. I have a teenage daughter, and I used to be a teenage daughter.

I'm pretty well aware of how it works.

I don't like the idea of vulnerable kids in dangerous situations having to take extra time pleading their case with a judge. I don't like the parental notification laws. I just don't like them. I also think kids should be able to access safe, effective contraception without parental notification.

[Shell Beau]

39. I agree about the contraception, but that is a total

different story than having an actual medical procedure. My best friend had an abortion last year and I just remember how much went along with it. She got a slight infection and her temp dropped to 91 degrees. And she was 25 years old. She was responsible and mature enough to know to seek medical treatment. But someone as young as 13 or 14 may not even realize. But I've said I was on the fence with this issue. I know I would feel as if I had the right to know if it were my child. But we can agree to disagree.

:)

[Left Is Write]

41. I know that contraception is different from a medical procedure.

But it all comes down to reproductive freedom and control of one's own body.

I feel very strongly about reproductive rights. Every restriction placed on such freedoms is a step in the wrong direction and becomes another way to control women.

[Shell Beau]

42. But teenagers aren't women yet.

I feel strongly about reproductive rights too.

[Left Is Write]

46. But they do - or should - have some autonomy over their own bodies.

I'm trying to teach my 18-year-old that her rights do matter. That she has a whole world of opportunity awaiting her, and I don't want anyone to take that away from her.

Our girls need to learn early that they can and should stand up for themselves. I don't like the idea that a teenage girl can be molested - losing control of her own body - and then lose control again to make decisions about what might happen afterward.

We also can't assume that a young girl who believes she has reason not to tell her parents hasn't told someone else, another adult she trusts.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off sounding strident. My daughter and I passed a large group of anti-choice picketers just yesterday, and I'm acutely aware of an active movement in this country to go backwards in terms of reproductive rights.

[Shell Beau]

47. I understand your point of view. And as I said, I am on

the fence with this issue. But I most certainly do not want to go backwards in terms of reproductive rights either!

[AllegroRondo]

32. IIRC - abuse, incest, or reason to believe a parent may harm the child

I do remember a case where a teenage girl petitioned to go without parental permission because she seriously believed her father would kill her if he found out.

[Shell Beau]

33. Anytime the person would be put in danger or already has

been (molested by family, incest, raped) then I agree about not having to notify the parents.

[Gormy Cuss]

35. Some of the qualifying reasons.

--Parents who are or who are related to the impregnator.
--Parents who have a history of bad parenting (the minor has a thick case folder at social services, whether or not the minor is in foster care.)
--One parent agrees to abortion, the other doesn't.
--Informally emancipated minors (runaways, throwaways, etc.)

A thirteen year old who is afraid to tell her parents is the least likely to get approval if none of the above apply. She is much more likely to have confirmed the pregnancy at a later stage when it is a more serious procedure. A sixteen year old in the first trimester on the other hand may convince the court without any other evidence. That's why judicial discretion is better than a blanket requirement of parental notification.

It is a tough issue and needs careful consideration of individual cases.

[Shell Beau]

36. Those reasons certainly make sense!

It is a tough issue. And it should take careful consideration.

[SIU_Blue]

3. The fact is that age is an arbitrary measurement

there are plenty of 17 year olds who can make great decisions, and plenty of 25, heck, 45 year olds who make awful decisions. What we should do imho is make it mandatory for anyone to talk to a psychologist, just for an hour or however long they want to talk. That way we have safe legal abortions, with informed decision-making. As for an age, if I had to set it it would be 15

[Shell Beau]

6. I understand. But

as I said earlier, as a parent, I would want to know that my child had a serious medical procedure done.

[SIU_Blue]

11. Shell, I completely understand

your point, but you have to understand, you are a Good Parent. Of course you'd want to know, but most 14/15/16 year olds who have abortions do not have good parents. They may refuse or punish these girls. That's the issue with this law.

[Shell Beau]

13. I am not a parent yet. But

hopefully, I will be a good parent. I know that I would be concerned about the health of my child. I completely understand that a lot of kids do have bad parents. But even the best parent's children screw up. I understand the bad part of this law. But I am on the fence with this one.

[SIU_Blue]

21. I have reservations about my position too.

I should have clarified that the part I was most angry at was that these were "pro-lifers" who didn't give a damn about these women but instead only wanted to make abortions more difficult to receive.

[Whoa_Nelly]

12. This is one issue coming up in November in the special election

as per Arnold Asshole's bullshit.

It has been stated by one CA Repub politician that the main reason the issue (Prop. 72) is on the ballot is to try to put more into force to help toward crumbling Roe v. Wade...and that's a good thing. It's about making another move toward making abortions illegal.

As a parent, yes would want to know what's going on with my child. However, there are also parents who don't give a shit, who would beat their daughter for getting pregnant, some who would rape their daughter and impregnate them, intentionally or unintentionally...and other really bad scenarios that would preclude a young girl/woman from seeking/obtaining parental consent prior to an abortion.

The call for this issue on the CA statewide ballot is set up very ambiguously in its wording, and purposely so, with the intent to make an appeal to parents who do care about their children, and who can intimidated into voting "Yes" on this issue through the emotional appeal. It's set up to come across as "If you love your child, then vote YES. A vote of NO will infer you are a heartless and incompetent parent."

[Left Is Write]

25. Women are capable of making informed decisions...

without being forced to speak to a psychologist.

[Shell Beau]

29. A 13 year old is hardly a woman.

I believe counseling would help. A lot of women have guilt issues after they go through with it. They know they did the right thing for them, but they still have that guilt. It wouldn't hurt to have counseling. Of course, it shouldn't be mandatory. It should just be available.

[Left Is Write]

37. The post I responded to recommended making a visit with a psychologist

mandatory for EVERYONE. I strongly disagree with that.

[SIU_Blue]

40. Women, yes. 13 year old kids, not always.

I don't even agree with my psychiatrist suggestion 100%, I just think we need a better determining factor than age.

[xmas74]

8. It is yet there are other factors.

I don't like the idea of parental consent because of what I've witnessed. I knew of a 15 year old girl who became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. Her parents denied her the abortion because of religious arguments and took her out of school for a while(they said it was because of medical reasons). At seven months she was rushed to the hospital because she had been beaten. Turns out mom decided that she didn't want to raise her husband's baby after all(stepfather was the father of the child. He'd been molesting her since she was 8. She spilled the beans to an officer at the hospital).
Whole family knew this secret and let it keep happening. They told her that it was an act of God for her to get pregnant w/ this child and that she would keep it. She didn't want to have a baby-especially his.

[Shell Beau]

15. That is tragic. It really is. I hate

that. And I understand that is the situation for a lot of teens. I am just saying that I as a parent (which I am not yet) would want to know of any medical procedures my child had.

[xmas74]

19. I have a daughter and I would want to know.

But I hope that the lines of communication are open enough for her to come to me and trust me w/ any kind of info. I also hope that she comes to me before she becomes active so that we can decide on birth control. I don't have to like it but I'd rather have her protected well in the first place. Pregnancy is the least of my concerns.

[Shell Beau]

20. Absolutely! I hope that I will have an

open relationship with my children too (when I have them). But the truth is that most parents think they do have that openness and they don't. I know I was open with my mom about everything, but I kept that part out. I felt like I was old enough to judge what was right for me. Of course I wasn't. But I was smart enough to use protection every time. But even if that openness is there, some kids choose not to tell. I certainly want my child to feel as if they can tell me anything. A lot of parents feel that way but they don't know how to say it.

[xmas74]

23. You'll never know 100 percent of what happens.

But if you approach things in a calm manner and keep the lines open they might be more likely to come to you. I have a friend whose mom was like this. She went to her when she thought that she was ready for intimacy. Her mom took her to the nearest Planned Parenthood, had them talk to her about what could happen, had her put on the pill and also had them show her how to put a condom on a man.
I spoke to her mom about it years later. She said that she didn't like the thought of her little girl doing that but that she would rather she have the info and be protected. That's how I want to be.

[Shell Beau]

24. I agree. I may not like what I hear, but I

will just have to put that aside and put the safety of my child first. And also not freak out b/c then they really will never come to me.

[xmas74]

30. Exactly.

I remember when I was 14 my parents made me sign one of those MADD contracts (the one where if you or your driver has been drinking you'll call them for a ride home and they will pick you up w/o an argument that night). Two weeks later I had my first real date-w/ a senior. He was drinking and wanted more from me than I wanted to give. I got out my trusty quarter and called them for a ride. I was lectured all the way home about the group of people I was w/ and then sat down for the big fight when I got home. I was grounded for three months because of it.

I never told them anything else ever again.

[Left Is Write]

43. If it helps, I would not have grounded you.

You'd have been praised for using good judgment and making the call for a ride home.

[xmas74]

48. Thank you./

I would never ground my own child for using good judgment.
I got myself out of a bad situation(a couple of years later he was in a drinking and driving accident). Turns out he was also known for date rape.
I'd prefer my child would call me in situations like this.

[Taverner]

9. Would you rather the 13-year old have the baby?

And be forced to care for it?

I remember when I was 13 - and Taking care of myself was hard enough

[Shell Beau]

17. No, but you are making

part of my point. Is a 13 year old teenager really ready to go through that type of decision and medical procedure alone? Are they old enough to remember to take their antibiotics all of the time? You're about to have a girl. Wouldn't you like to know if she has had any major medical procedure done?

[JohnnyBoots]

4. Goes back to the GOP basing their policies around property, in

this case young women are viewed as property of the parents. Why don't people see this for what it is.

[Shell Beau]

7. Not necessarily. Parents want to know what

is going on in their children's lives especially medically. An abortion is a medical procedure that is serious.

[JohnnyBoots]

10. Fair enough, but I still think it is based off of the property protection

mindset. The question is how do we facillitate an open dialouge between parents and teens, and real world applicable sex ed in schools.

[Shell Beau]

14. That is the real issue here.

There should be communication between the parents and teens. There should be sex ed that demonstrates the real issues that come with teens having unprotected sex. Unfortunately that isn't the case a lot of times.

[JohnnyBoots]

16. Maybe if we can get the rich politicians to invest in condom companies

then maybe sex ed will be better funded or more socially acceptable, if only to help their stock dividends.

[Shell Beau]

18. Yeah right! Then right wing loonies think you are

promoting premarital sex. I sometimes feel like it is a lose-lose situation. :mad:

[SIU_Blue]

22. I know how you feel

I think there was a study put out a few weeks ago that showed that girls who signed abstinence pledges in High School were actually more likely to have sex than those who did not.

Keep it up freepers, your religious intervention is working.:eyes:

[xmas74]

34. The "good girls" were the ones who got around at my school.

They were also the ones who would approach me in the bathrooms at school asking me where to get an abortion(since they all seemed to think that I should know that sort of thing. Strange thing was that I was not the one who was active).

[Orsino]

44. That's why I'd suppot parental notificaion requirements...

...in other cases. Parents are responsible for the health and well-being of their children.

However, I do not grant them the authority to order their children to give birth. Require notification, I'd say, but do not require parental consent.

[Shell Beau]

45. That is certainly a good point!

I agree with what you say!