Rant: The college students I teach can't pick the right form of 'there'

[suzbaby]

I'm only a lowly Teaching Assistant at the University, which means that I teach the class completely by myself but get none of the status or money. I am only a few years older than all of my students, which is why I am utterly flabbergasted that so many of them cannot tell the difference between "there" "their" and "they're." Or, for that matter, "to" "two" and "too" or "your" and "you're."
Am I being unreasonable to expect them to understand these words? I'm reading their papers and I don't if I should be taking points off for this sort of thing.
Thoughts? :shrug:

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

1. their they're. you're just heaven a bad day.

[suzbaby]

4. Thanxs freind! n/t

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

6. shore! welcome too DU, bye the weigh.

[suzbaby]

11. Thanxs!

Thats realy nice of u

[Midlodemocrat]

2. It is all a by product of spell check.

Yes, by all means hold them accountable. They will thank you for it in the future.

When I taught high school/college, I never had that problem, BUT it was before the personal computer became so popular.

[suzbaby]

9. I think I will deduct points

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable.
The other thing that drives me crazy is when they write me e-mails with "net-speak." They write things like "I just wanted to know if U R gonna be in your office hours today" in e-mails to their teacher!

[Midlodemocrat]

18. Oh, man, I am so with you there.

LOL. R U arnd? b/c I need to tlk. BRB.

Drives me nuts.

[bertha katzenengel]

35. I think you SHOULD deduct points! Absolutely! And if you have to,

prepare a quick one-pager explaining these most basic words!! :argh:

[tjwmason]

3. You should deduct.

There, they're, their.
You're, your.
To, two, too.
It's, its.

These are all simple application of rules, and are not difficult.

In the almost instantaneous world of internet message boards, one's thoughts may take flight so quickly that one mistypes (even I have made mistake with homophones here before). But in submitted papers there should be decent proof-reading before submission.

[RedCloud]

5. Lesson two me Meester.

Eye m going 2 tell u, dat iz how it iz. (I am paraphrasing here, or hear?)

Take points off for whatever irritates you, but do so consistently so they have no grade appeals process.

[anarch]

7. what is they're dam problem?

I mean, what the hell is going on over their? There just not getting taught good in h.s., probably.


Oops! meant to respond to O.P. I was so upset at there inability to talk good and stuff, that I hit reply to the wrong thing.

[jane_pippin]

8. My boss can't do that either.

I'd be laughing hysterically as I rewrite letters for him if it didn't make me weep with rage.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

10. Definitely take points off

But I disagree that this is all the fault of spell-checkers. I worked as an editor for 10 years, and I can't tell you how many authors in their 50s and 60s (some with Ph.D.s) did the same damn thing. Some of them I excused, because though they were experts in their fields, most of their experience was practical and many had gone into the military straight out of high school. But a social scientist who was getting paid thousands of dollars to write a paper?

[nickgutierrez]

12. How do you get through high school without knowing how to spell?

As a sidenote: I'm a recent high school grad. 2002, to be exact.

And my high school isn't exactly known for its strenuous standards.

But damn. I knew how to spell when I graduated. I would imagine most of my classmates did as well.

[suzbaby]

13. You would be surprised!

[underpants]

14. There idiots

clearly

[AirmensMom]

15. My professors deducted 1/2 grade point for every error.

No, I was not an English major. In my first paper, I used the wrong word (effect vs. affect). The paper was perfect otherwise, so I got a B+. It taught me to make damn sure to check my papers before I turned them in. When my kids started writing papers, I was shocked by what their teachers let them get away with.

Take those points off. Don't forget its/it's, then/than, choose/chose, to name a few more.


:bounce:

[suzbaby]

16. I have to admit

that I have always had problems with affect vs effect, every now and then I'll still screw those two up.
I will keep an eye out for the other suggestions you made. :)

[Gormy Cuss]

28. Don't just deduct points, offer suggested references.

"The Elements of Style" is one that comes to mind.

As for the emails, I'd cut them a little slack on netspeak, but they would benefit from criticism of the informal tone in a professional exchange.

If you have a mechanism from handing out guidelines to all of them, use it. They need your guidance.

[July]

17. They're in college.

I saw the same thing TA'ing freshman writing classes at an Ivy League some years back. After teaching a short "Greatest Hits of Writing and Grammar" segment, I took credit off for what I considered basic mistakes. I also offered extra help, though, so as far as I was concerned, they had no excuse.

You don't have to be a Nazi about it, since almost everyone throws in an error once in a while (I include myself in "almost everyone"). If there's one minor mistake, or even two, you may want to point it out and leave it at that, unless it keeps happening.

Remember that some people just have a terrible time with spelling. I don't know the reason for it, but I know it's a fact of life for some people. I know a brilliant professor of English who can't spell for shit. He always has others check his work, something I used to recommend to my students. Problem solved.

[suzbaby]

21. Having others check your work is a great idea...

Unfortunately I haven't had much luck getting them to do that much work. It's acutally a public speaking course and I have, time and time again, told them to practice their speech before they get up in front of the class. It's obvious when they get up there that very few do practice their speech before class.
I try and tell them, giving a speech in your head is completely different from giving a speech in front of a class.

[swag]

19. wierd. loosers.

[bicentennial_baby]

20. then they have no business being in college, imho

i'm a student...fucking unacceptable.

[suzbaby]

23. I once had students turn in an outline as an assignment...

I think everyone knows the basics of an outline. Heck, Microsoft Word will do most of the work for you. Use roman numerals, indent, etc. I went over what I expected for an outline in class thoroughly and gave them a handout.
And yet, I still had one student turn in a hand drawn spider-gram or concept map as his outline. You know, write a term in the middle of a piece of paper, put a circle around it, draw a line to another word with a circle around it.....

[bicentennial_baby]

31. oh wow...

you have my sympathies...my head would simply explode if i had to deal with that :wow:

[tigereye]

34. sounds like a mind map or something

I was going to say, you could blame the "whole language" craze most likely operating when many of them were in grade school! And welcome to DU.


Homophones are difficult, but not that difficult. I pester my son about misspelled words rather frequently.

[StellaBlue]

22. THIS DRIVES ME NUTS

I really hate it when people do'nt know how to spell things right don't you? This drives me nut's to. It seems like nobody understands the basics of english anymore - and if no one conforms to the proper rules then eventually we will not be able to communicate together in the future anymore.








It's not just us, though...

Brought to you by http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm

[StellaBlue]

24. And, unfortunately, I disagree with the above posters

It doesn't matter, sadly. Grammar and punctuation and usage and the general ability to use one's own language doesn't count for much anymore. I got sick of working for people (middle managers and upper managers) who couldn't type a letter by themselves... well, they couldn't type one without making themselves look like complete idiots (which they weren't). For some reason the general consensus seems to be that if you are not going to be an English teacher yourself, you don't need to know 'that stuff'. No one I worked for was ever judged to be less competent (at their construction management jobs) by colleagues - only by ME.

Look at the 'president'.

[Baclava]

25. I hate all people who can't spell because I suck at math.

Makes sense to me...Balance is everything.

[Graf Orlok]

26. I think their having a bad day two.

After all, it is monday.

:silly:

[nytemare]

27. Those are big pet peeves of mine.

They're going to drive their car over there.

You're going to your house.

Two other people are going to the house, too.

Sometimes, when I type fast, I will miss the second "o" in too, and aggravate myself.

On edit: I only have some college. Aside from that, I am pretty much only self-educated. This is because my interests change pretty frequently. That being said, I think the ability to use the words you mentioned properly reflects on their knowledge of the language. If a person with just some college has that as a pet peeve, I don't think that marking them off is a bad thing. It is something that will reflect on them in the future.

[Craig3410]

29. Print out this poem and put it on your doorway.

It should drive the point home.

I have a spelling checker,
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot sea.

Eye ran this poem threw it,
Your sure reel glad two no.
Its vary polished in it's weigh.
My checker tolled me sew.

A checker is a bless sing,
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when eye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore a veiling checker's
Hour spelling mite decline,
And if we're lacks oar have a laps,
We wood bee maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
Their are know fault's with in my cite,
Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does knot phase me,
It does knot bring a tier.
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With wrapped word's fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should bee proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaw's are knot aloud.

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too pleas.

[suzbaby]

30. *laughs*

I've seen that poem before, it's great! Unfortunately my office is actually a group office. I have a smidgen of desk in a room that holds about 15 other Ta's. Maybe if I made that poem poster size they would actually notice it. :rofl:

[Nikia]

32. If it is a paper, take points off

My professors did. If you are grading an essay test where they had a limited amount of time, don't take points off even though some of my professors did. The difference is that a paper should be proof read while an essay test is a first draft where the student might not have time to be careful about grammar and spelling. The student should make time to check their paper for mistakes before turning it in.
I had a professor deduct a full letter grade for using contractions. He commented that contractions had no place in formal writing. No professor had ever commented on that before in one my papers and I had been unaware of that rule.
I would expect any college student, even freshman, to know about the different theres.

[Lisa]

33. are you available to be my TA?

I just went over this with my teaching assistants, and one of them had such a skeptical expression that I just know there's going to be trouble about this before the end of term!

I sometimes wonder why I bother, because there is at least one tenure-track faculty member in my department who routinely mixes up "its" and "it's".

Hang in there, suzbaby -- "your" doing the "write" thing! If your school is anything like mine, I bet you get comments like "why are you checking our spelling? This isn't an English class, you know!". Or if it IS an English class: "You should focus on creativity and not get hung up on a bunch of old rules."

[Jamastiene]

36. Damn, if that is your only gripe, then I wish YOU were my teacher.

My english teacher splits hairs over stupid shit. Damn, I could have it so easy.

You have a right to rant about something that simple.

Damn, some students have it easy.

[suzbaby]

41. It certainly won't be my only gripe concerning their papers.

However, it is just the most glaring/annoying issue that has popped up since I began grading. I consider it to be so because the various forms of "there" "you" and others are considered to among the most rules of the english language.
This is a speech class, so I will not be grading their grammar too harshly. :)

[txaslftist]

37. I think...people who live in glass howzes...

"...and I don't (verb missing) if I should be taking points off for this sort of thing."

You're also not supposed to begin a sentence with a preposition. Or, if you like, a prepositional phrase.

-Little Brown.

[suzbaby]

39. Yes, however...

I do not think that a post I placed on an online discussion forum should be held to the same academic standard as an essay I gave my students 5 days to compose. If I were given 5 days to formulate a well structured and grammatically correct response I would count your criticism as justified.

[Nikia]

40. In one class, I could not get an A on any of the short papers

The only comment on my B papers was "OK". Before writing my last paper, I asked the prof what was wrong with those papers. He said that they weren't written well enough. I told him that I believed that I wrote as well as him. He replied that in order to get an A on a paper in his class that a student must write better than him. I didn't think that was quite fair.

[Sequoia]

38. I sure as heck would be worried.

Take points off for that. Criminey, all kids should know that by the 6th grade. How did they make to college in the first place?!