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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:19 PM
Original message
Poll question: Is this quote offensive?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?



If you know the source of this quote, don't say it just yet... divulgance might wrecketh the results of this poll.
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kalashnikov Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. i like.
but iam atheist.
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Leftist78 Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can't argue with the logic
I like it, but I'm an agnostic/atheist (depends on the question and who's asking) so I would.
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cool quote
You'll have to let us know who said it.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is an interesting idea...
posed by some religious people I have talked to on this issue. Being an agnostic myself, I do not usually argue their side, but just to be fair I'll post it.

The idea is that God does not interfere with free will. Those who excersise their God-given right to free will for good will be rewarded in the afterlife. Those who excersise their free will for evil will be punished in the afterlife.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Then it isn't
free will, is it.

If you can only exercise your 'free will' as long as you conform to specific religious dictates or dogma....it isn't free will.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Spot on!
I hadn't thought of that like that...
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. How convenient that Gos choses when and whom to punish
The Great Flood, Parting of the Red Sea, the killing of his only son to teach us a lesson...
Gimme a break.

The invisible man in the sky is watching over us..that isn't God, it is an Ashcroft satellite.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Interesting point of view, which I feel compelled to answer...
I appreciate you posting their point of view. I never really considered it, because I'd never heard it as such before. Unfortunately, I still don't fully understand their point of view. There are blatant warps in their logic.

What is good? What is evil? Mankind can't define good without realizing what evil it has been doing.

Mankind has also defined good while being in an evil state.

What about people who don't know what good or evil (amoral?) is and simply DO things? Where do they go to spend eternity, Wyoming? Or you pick a place where nothing ever happens.

And, best of all, God has told people what to do in the Biblical stories. He told Moses to tell the world of His 10 commandments (couldn't He have told Adam and Eve too?). He told Noah to pack up 2 of each animal (one male, one female, and including the mosquitoes) and live in a big houseboat with exceptional toilet facilities and enough food to live on for all involved while He flooded everybody else to death for over a month straight. He told Isaac to sacrifice his son. He's said lots of things to lots of people. Most amusingly, He sent us Jesus and told a bunch people about it beforehand! Yet alone having His firstborn try to change the world for the better. All of these mean He has interfered with free will. However, He sending Jesus was a good thing, as we'd accept Jesus is a man of peace and tolerance - as he was written to be.

The idea that God doesn't interfere with free will is a flaming kettle of cack. The Bible proves that several times over. And isn't the Bible "God's Word"? (which becomes a different issue, God likes to digress and contradict Himself almost as often as I do...)

Personally, I believe in higher beings. Maybe even an ultimate Being. But organized religion? I refuse to be so arrogant as to decide who or what God is until I meet Him. God may be a Her as well. The Bible wasn't written in English and I'm sure evil people changed some of the meanings and intent out of self-interest and bigotry. (the real reason why Sodom & Gommorah were destroyed was because people were mean to each other and, in those days, to be mean toward guests was wrong. Somebody eventually changed it to making scapegoats out of homosexuals rather than the greedy and selfish.) If God wanted to make Himself clear, he would have intervened with those evildoers and He would have made things consistent from the start.

How far damaged must a gem like the Earth get before God steps in, saying enough is enough? (having created life, the Universe, and everything, God surely knows how difficult it is to make a planet like the Earth. Of course, the fact the Universe has so few Earth-like planets and more balls of dust, rock, ice, and gas suggests He isn't perfect either...)

God "not interfering" just signs a blank check for people who want to be evil. And many of today's evil also claim to believe in God.

Sigh. I'll never understand. But isn't understanding evil?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Commandments don't interfere with free will...
our government has not yet gained the technology to dominate our minds and force us to follow the law - that would be a violation of free will. Punishment isn't a violation of free will; domination is.

That's the best answer I can give; I don't claim to fully understand it either.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. As a Christian, I can
tell you that that is the basic Christian doctrine.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Better things have been written.
Read Shakespeare.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. A plain written man for his time
But many of his stories were far more than plain. He was the original author of the human condition and tragedy, both of which go hand in hand.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. OKeth
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. SOURCE OF THE QUOTE:
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-14-03 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. It sounds like the Socratic method.
I am not surprised that it was a Greek philosopher.
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