What is it like to be white in America?

[HEyHEY]

I posted this in the lounge because I wasn't sure.....but sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to look at it from th opposite direction.

[DarkPhenyx]

1. 'Bout the same as being black really.

A few differences here and there but for the most part it's the same.

[noiretextatique]

15. how do you know that? eom

[Sapphocrat]

55. noiretblu...

Glad to see you, n&b! :hi:

[Sapphocrat]

56. Oh, for sure

Surely no one really thinks there's even a whit of difference between my life experience and Carol Mosely Braun's. What's a little skin color mean anymore? Geez, next thing you know, somebody's going to say there's an unspoken race issue in the gay community! Can you imagine anybody thinking that, when everybody knows we homos have transcended all that silly stuff? :eyes:

P.S. Hey, where's the "What's it like to be a lesbian in America" thread?

P.P.S. And where's the "What's it like to be a black lesbian in America" thread, so I can jump in there and profess, as a white lesbian, that there's no difference?

P.P.P.S. For everyone who thinks that there's essentially no difference between being black in America and being white in America: Is the irony completely lost on y'all that there's even a need for such threads?

[Karenina]

58. And the NEED is great.

We get it or we DIE. Like, SOON. Hi Sapphocrat!!! :hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Depends on where you live in America

Unlike the popular impression, the majority of poor people in this country are white. They often live in rural areas, and often lack educational opportunities. Here in Arkansas, there is still an element that is extremely prejudiced against minorities, but lately I've seen other white Southerners fight back. In September, some white supremist group did a mass mailing of hate-filled literature to the people of Harrison. The City Council took it upon themselves to pass a resolution which stated that, although the group was free to express their views, these views were not the ones of the majority of people living in the area. (And this area is 99% white-there was no black constituency to cater to) Harrison is not known for inviting new business in, either, so I felt that the resolution was passed mainly because people were tired of being called racist because of a few. In Newton County, where I live, there are minorities, and many small communes and groups. There are many extremely liberal and tolerant people (accepting of GL couples, for example), and then there are some very very conservative people. Interestingly enough, the conservatives are starting to not like Bush, which I find rather interesting.

[Dogmeat]

7. Did you know.....

that at the time of the American revolution, a full one-quarter of the white population were indentured servants? That was a much more brutal institution that many people realize. Most of them were shang-hai'd, scraped out of the gutters of the slums of London, prisons, etc. They didn't come here voluntarily either. They were crammed onto ships, beaten, died in middle passage. It was virtually a condition of temporary slavery.

Was it as bad as slavery. No, but closer to it than most people realize.

[ikojo]

11. Many of those indentured servants were from Ireland.

The Irish were viewed by many Europeans and particularly by the British, as less than human. Like migrants of today, people would pay a sum to be brought over to the colonies and in return for that sum they would be obligated to work for a period of time, usually seven years. After the seven year period they were supposed to be set free but many were not and many would escape their bondage. Being white they could more easily blend into the majority population.

[noiretextatique]

16. "no dogs or irish allowed"

signs that used to be displayed in some places.

[sandnsea]

49. Mine was English

Came over in 1619 to Jamestown. He eventually was a member of the House of Burgesses. That is important to remember, slaves never had that opportunity at all.

[newyawker99]

14. Hi Dogmeat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Zuni]

17. I did know that

A lot of those were Irish immigrants that needed a ticket out. The main difference between that and slavery was it often only lasted years and not a whole lifetime and was not hereditary.
Other than that it was slavery.

[DrWeird]

52. And it was voluntary.

Slaves didn't have the luxury of a contract to sign. Also indentured servants were allowed to learn to read, marry who they wanted to, and although I'm sure it happened, it was quite illegal and looked down upon to beat an indentured servant.

[ikojo]

12. You are right ayeshahaqqiqa....

"A few years ago while staffing a table at an earthday event I got into a discussion with someone active in local anti police brutality causes. Here in St Louis police brutality is assumed to be directed only against blacks. While the majority of police brutality cases in the cities may be directed against blacks, I commented to her that in rural areas and alternative communities (Deadheads specifically) the police are just as brutal. Trouble is since it affects poor whites (rural areas tend to have a lot of meth labs, especially in Missouri) and middle class whites (Deadheads tend to be middle class and upper middle class young people) it was off the radar of most anti brutality activists.

It got her thinking about it. I told her the story of what I saw at a Dead show one time in Kansas City. The cops were dragging this guy across very hot pavement (the temp at showtime was 101 degrees). All he had wrapped around him was a towel, which came off and exposed his bare bottom to the pavement. They then got him to the entrace which was fenced. They grabbed his head and proceeded to bang his face against the fence. Cameras started flashing and people started chanting, "the whole world is watching.' Oh yeah I should add this was during Bush I's reign in the White House.

I think being white has advantages, particularly if you are born upper middle class or rich.

[izzie]

3. For my age 69 I would say it has made my life easier.

But that being a women has taken some of that ease away. It is a while man country and it may be better than it was but they are still the ones holding most of the good cards.Look at who sat in congress and your lo cal business and you will see until 40 years ago, give a little either way, it was also pure WASP.

[0007]

50. 70 & white can be a bitch, but from what I've seen most blacks..

ain't much better off.

[Nlighten1]

4. As a white male

It has been gravy in a relative way. I grew up in Mississippi so I have seen first hand how blacks get mistreated in America.

Not much has changed I'm afraid and I think that this administration plans to do to poor whites what they have done to poor blacks for decades.

[NicoleM]

5. Interesting question.

I'm as pale as pale can be. My mom is half Lebanese and half Scandinavian, and my dad is something-less-than-half Native American. So I have a lot of non-white relatives.

When my Lebanese grandmother was a kid, people called them "sand n******s." People don't do that anymore, but since 9/11 a few people have made comments about terrorists to her.

On my dad's side, the NA relatives who live on the reservation are pretty poor. I grew up not far from the reservation, and my school system had an unofficial policy of harassing the NA kids until they changed schools. If I hadn't been so fair, I would have had a hard time in school. I got a pretty crappy education but my school was still better than the schools on the reservation.

Overall, my sister and I have had an easier time of it than my NA step- and half-siblings. I attribute most of that to our skin color and the opportunities that were not denied to us because of it.

[VermontDem2004]

6. Just absolutely terrible

It's the absolute worse thing you can be. A white man in America.

[LeftistGorilla]

8. HeyHey!

what's it like to white in Vancouver????
:hi:

[HEyHEY]

37. lonely

;-)

Pretyy average I guess

[Kamika]

9. I bet its boring

Being what everyone gets compared to and all

[7th_Sephiroth]

29. hasent affected me at all

still get screwed all the time and i have been a victim of police brutality

[BiggJawn]

10. It's just great!

Every week I get a carton from "White People C.A.R.E." with walmart gift cards and ethnic food items (Cheetos, etc)in it, and then there's the annual "White Guy's Stipend" cheque of $20,000, and of COURSE, if you have a job interview and you give 'em the "Secret White Guy Eyebrow raise" then you're in, even if you're not qualified....

Of COURSE I'm being sarcastic. Being white, I have NO idea what its like to "be Black in America", but I don't think being white is any free ride, either.

From where I sit, it's lonely being "White in America". Maybe that's fallout from being "Straight in America", too. But that's another thread.

Life is Hard, unless you're descended from Prescott Bush.

[bleedingheart]

13. Class discrimination is a problem in white society

However...that said my life and that of my husband has been easy in comparison to others.

My family came from North and South Eastern Europe (Lithuania and Croatia) when they came here they had funny long sounding names with loads of consonants and they spoke with heavy accents. They were relegated to lives of heavy manual labor. Steelworking, coal mining and cleaning houses was their lot in life. They were discriminated against by more established Americans...

So they pushed their kids to at least finish high school, learn a trade or if they had enough money go to college (in my family it is typically the second US born generation that goes to college)
...and they changed their names to american sounding names... they Anglified their names... They stripped themselves of their identity to fit in and since they were white it was easy for them to do.

By the time I was born the minor struggles they suffered were over and I grew up without experiencing it... The only time I ran into any type of discrimination was when I married into my husband's family. They are Dutch/English Calvinists...and they found my background and religion (Catholic) a bit disturbing...they have gotten over that...

Today whites who are not as financially well off or not as well educated are lumped together as "hicks", "rednecks", "white trash" and looked down upon...Remember that movie with Melanie Griffiths and Harrison Ford where the woman transforms herself to be like her boss...that's the kind of stuff that happens...

[hlthe2b]

18. Privilege is more strongly linked to wealth in this society (IMO)

that to race. I'm not saying we have a color-blind society. We certainly don't, although I think we've made some strides. But, poor white trailer park residents with minimal education certainly aren't treated with much less disdain by those who would make such distinctions.

As we've all come to see, the upper echelons of wealth (Bushies, et al) are pretty contemptuous of all the middle class as well, regardless of race/gender/ethnicity. They just take pains to disguise it better to their RW constituency, who they hope to exploit for votes.

[Zuni]

21. very true

poor trailer park whites are often treated just as bad as anyone. It is very common for people to look down on those people out loud, more so than poor inner city blacks. Making fun of trailer trash is allowed in society, racism is something that people do not just do in public anymore.

[Zuni]

19. It is incredibly easy and fun

Banks give me money. I get free drinks at bars. I have concubines waiting on me hand and foot. On certain nights all of us white people meet and gorge ourselves on delicacies while we plot to make the country unequal.

In truth, it is probably the same as being a white in Canada except you can get in more trouble for Marijuana.
From what I see, blacks and whites are largely treated the same undeer the law here. I have never heard of some neo-confederate lawmen in these parts praying on minorities or police brutality.
Hardcore racial discrimination is largely a thing that died out before I was born, at least in the area that I live in (In suburban Maryland, near Washington DC and Baltimore)
In truth, I have never been a witness to real hardcore racism (stupid comments, yes, but not segregation or beatings or klan lynchings)

[scottcsmith]

20. White outside America

I'm caucasion and lived in Japan for two years, and I was able to experience racism first-hand. There were many times that no one would sit next to me on a train, even if the train was crowded and the seat next to me was the only one available. I was regarded with suspicion. I think every white American should go to foreign country so they know what minorities in America experience. I had a similar experience in Hawaii. Many of the locals did not like the white military members stationed in Pearl Harbor. I heard the phrase "stupid haole" a lot. "Haole" is the Hawaiian word for white person, but it's meaning has evolved over the years to become a derogatory epithet. So, if you're in Hawaii, and someone calls you a "haole," they're not being nice to you.

[Zuni]

24. Asian countries

In asian countries like japan and China there is a lot of deeply ingrained racism.
Chinese often consider all non-chinese as barbarians, even in the communist era (reflecting on the Huns that used to invade), and china's history of being somewhat closed to outsiders has created real hard xenophobia, especially in poor , rural areas.
It is common for Chinese to think of japan as 'an island of barbarians' or an 'island of evil dwarves'. Vietnamese are often compared to dogs (really). Even chinese from non-Han descent, like manchus, are seen as foreign and dangerous.
Japan has always seen itself as ahead of all the other asian countries. It is similar to the way Europeans might view other areas of the world. Japanese are often contemptous of China especially.

[Karenina]

41. Hi Scott!

Thank you for that post! It is REALLY true that in order for a white male to have an inkling of what racism is about that JAPAN is the place to be! No other place in the world can communicate the assumption of superiority, suspicion, and institutionalized exclusion in quite the same manner. I bet it was one BIG eye-opener for you! How did it make you feel? Did it make you angry?

[Sapphocrat]

61. You took the thought right out of my head...

The first (and probably only) time I ever experienced racism solely because I was white was in Honolulu. Not from native Hawaiians (if anybody ever called me a "stupid haole," I wasn't aware of it, and wouldn't know it from the wonderful way I've been treated on countless stays in the islands) -- but from Japanese store owners. I finally got to experience first-hand what it felt like to be denied service because I was different. Sobering experience.

[Frangible]

22. I don't know, what's there to compare it to?

I've always been a poor dumb white guy. The area I come from is about 99% white (Montana, way in the north) so I rarely see minorities and when I do they're never mistreated. Not to say it doesn't happen, though.

[election_2004]

23. It's absofucking fabulous!!!!

Being white is the funnest, grooviest experience one could ever have.

You get to constantly be compared to aristocrats like GWB and Ken Lay, no matter how low your *white* income is...

You get to constantly be lectured by politically-correct (usually also-white) teachers and professors about how you're responsible for the subjegation of blacks and tribal nations...

You get to constantly hear how racism in America is all your fault because of your *whiteness*...

You are constantly told to "quit bitching about affirmative action" because *whites* need to experience "having the tables turned on us" for a change...

And your social hardships get trivialized - - regardless of your gender, sexuality, religion, disability, socioeconomic class, or political ideology - - all because you're *WHITE*...

After all, skin color is the only thing that matters to any American, right? Therefore, if you are white, a standard universal rule applies: IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

What a glorious treat it is to be white in America.

[Sapphocrat]

64. Seems to me...

White folks wouldn't get ragged on for all the things you mentioned if we all stopped being so damned defensive all the time, and considered the validity of such accusations.

Even if you, personally, believe you do not actively contribute to, say, "the subjegation of blacks and tribal nations," that doesn't mean you bear no responsibility in the matter.

Or, more simply: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I think it's dangerously self-denying to feel shat-upon as a white person. It sounds very much like those Americans who scorn the "Blame America First Crowd." If Americans as a whole were capable of recognizing why we're so hated by the rest of the world, addressed our own culpability, and then rectified the wrongs, maybe the rest of the world wouldn't hate us quite so much as they do right now.

I don't want to take responsibility for America's part in mucking up the whole world, and yet I am morally and ethically bound to do whatever I can to change the situation. Same with the black-white issue.

So, until we find the solution, you're not off the hook, and neither am I.

[election_2004]

66. hmmm

So, until we find the solution, you're not off the hook, and neither am I.

So tell me what you want me to start doing differently...

[Karenina]

70. Paying attention could be a start...

Listening, rather than spouting off... I DUNNO, just an idea! :silly:

[BiggJawn]

78. "just an idea"....

Talk about spouting off...

[election_2004]

104. wow, a really deep and thoughtful response....

Try again.

And this time, follow up your sarcasm with some ounce of sincerity.

[Sapphocrat]

79. It's not up to me to tell you what to do differently...

But since you asked, I will tell you what I wish you would do: Stop reacting so defensively, and simply consider the possibility that 1) if a complaint exists, it may (at the very least) be rooted in validity, and 2) knee-jerk denial of a problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

I think (and I know, after reading some of the posts in this thread) that a lot of white folks believe white-on-black racism is a figment of African-American minds. And, if it does exist, that the white people who have never actively engaged in any expression of racism (be it verbal, physical, or in the voting booth) believe that they bear no responsibility for the active racism that does exist.

What can you do? Nobody's asking you to go lead a march on Washington. All I ask is that you investigate the reasons non-white (and many white) people do see you as "part of the problem." And then you -- and only you -- can decide what you need to change within yourself, if anything.

But if you can be brutally honest with yourself, I think you will find that anything you need to "do" will present itself to you on its own. Opportunities to heal the rift abound, but you can't see them, or act on them, if you approach the problem from an attitude of "Fine! You win! I'm a racist! Now what am I supposed to do about it, smart aleck?" I sincerely believe that if you address your own thinking about the subject, you'll know what to "do about it."

It's not easy. In fact, no-holds-barred self-examination is downright painful. As I've grown older, I've discovered to my shock and dismay that I'm not always as "liberal" and egalitarian as I assumed myself to be. It hurts to face up to my own hypocrisy. Or maybe "hypocrisy" is too strong a word; let's say it hurt to suddenly see how snugly wrapped I was in my own comfortable little cocoon of denial.

Ironically, dealing with the black-white issue has been the least of my stumbling blocks. I'm much angrier at straight people who deny that there's any such thing as anti-gay bigotry, and religious zealots whose armor-like "cocoon" prevents them from ever understanding how truly un-Christian is their every thought, word, and deed.

But I keep trying.

The process is ongoing. I'm a long way from perfection, and I expect I'll never get there. Nobody's born prejudiced, but the early environment that molds our beliefs has such impact that it may as well be hard-wired. Still, as long as I remind myself that I haven't achieved Gandhi-like acceptance (not "tolerance," mind you, but acceptance), and as long as I strive to do the best very I am personally capable of doing, then I can forgive myself as I stumble along the journey.

I couldn't call myself a liberal if I didn't try, in spite of myself; after all, doesn't part of being a liberal involve taking a hard look at the realities of America's self-imposed denial of blame for injustice all over the world?

I know, it's easier to slam one's country for its collective ignorance and denial, because there's always somebody else to blame. When you turn the same microscope on yourself, well, there's nobody else to blame. And that's scary.

So that's all I would wish of you -- and for you, election_2004: The genuine desire to understand why sharing the blame for allowing injustice to continue is such a daunting, threatening proposition, and why you react so vehemently to it. It's a mixed blessing, this wish: Once your eyes are opened to your own prejudices, they can never be closed again -- and the revelation will cause you a lot of pain for the rest of your life.

But the rewards -- and, oh, God! the feeling of freedom! -- are indescribable.

[election_2004]

100. let's review....

Stop reacting so defensively,

Any time I object to being unfairly blamed for something, it's labeled as *defensive*. What a great way to stifle opposing viewpoints...

And, if it does exist, that the white people who have never actively engaged in any expression of racism (be it verbal, physical, or in the voting booth) believe that they bear no responsibility for the active racism that does exist.

The only thing I can do is condemn the malicious actions of others, and be cognizant of my own actions so as not to replicate that behavior. Which I do.

How else do I "bear responsibility" for other people's actions?

All I ask is that you investigate the reasons non-white (and many white) people do see you as "part of the problem."

Oh, trust me, I want to know. I keep asking people why they view me is "part of the problem," but no one ever gives me a clear, detailed answer. They just tell me I'm too defensive and then try to talk their way around their allegation.

If someone wants to take this opportunity to educate me as to why I'm a part of the problem, I'm all ears.

and for you, election_2004: The genuine desire to understand why sharing the blame for allowing injustice to continue is such a daunting, threatening proposition, and why you react so vehemently to it.

Because there's only so much that I as an individual can do to control other people's actions. I can only control my own.

Therefore, "sharing the blame" makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Sapphocrat]

106. Okay, let's do -- review, that is...

Any time I object to being unfairly blamed for something, it's labeled as *defensive*. What a great way to stifle opposing viewpoints...

See, there you go, big guy -- my purpose isn't at all to stifle your viewpoint. (If I wanted to do that, I'd ask you to shut up. LOL) Seriously, I'm trying to have a dialogue with you here.

Your reaction to being called defensive is defensive. Truth is, nobody wants to hang you. I'm not setting traps for you. Not on purpose, anyway.

The only thing I can do is condemn the malicious actions of others, and be cognizant of my own actions so as not to replicate that behavior. Which I do.

Which is good. Which is great.

How else do I "bear responsibility" for other people's actions?

By reacting the same way white Americans have for the past ten generations or so: It's not my fault. I wasn't a slave owner. I didn't stand in the way of any black kids going to public schools in 1964. Why do you blame ME for all of that? And that perpetuates that very attitude among other whites. You do have an impact on other people's thinking, other people's actions, even when you don't think you do. I'm not saying you're responsible for the "malicious actions of others" -- but you do have an impact. And when you perpetuate the idea that "It's not my problem!" that is a problem.

I don't see owning one's share of the blame as self-flagellation for an issue you can't do anything about. I see it taking responsibility for doing something instead of just clucking my tongue over the ignorance of other people: Who can I talk to, how can I vote, which representatives can I write to, to bring attention to matters of injustice, whether they affect me or not? If I didn't do those things (as well as ask questions of people who feel oppressed, in order to understand why they feel oppressed), I would bear the responsibility of doing nothing. Which, to me, is actively contributing to the problem.

But that's just what I do. It may not be what works for you. As I said, first you examine your own attitudes. Then you go on to figuring out how you, with what you do best, can contribute to changing what's wrong between blacks and whites -- or gays and straights, or liberals and conservatives.

Sometimes the very best thing you can do is simply ask somebody to sit down and show you what it's like to walk in their shoes, as best they can. I can't speak for black folks -- I'm just a middle-aged white chick -- but I'll bet if you asked, more than a few African-American DUers would explain what they would wish you could see, and what you might do that could help heal things, if only a small bit.

All I ask is that you investigate the reasons non-white (and many white) people do see you as "part of the problem."

Oh, trust me, I want to know. I keep asking people why they view me is "part of the problem," but no one ever gives me a clear, detailed answer. They just tell me I'm too defensive and then try to talk their way around their allegation.

If someone wants to take this opportunity to educate me as to why I'm a part of the problem, I'm all ears.

Well, honestly, I view you as "part of the problem" because of your first post -- the "It's not my fault" attitude just strikes me as a total knee-jerk reaction. I've heard it a million times. Usually it's in conjunction with "Black people have all their rights now -- what are they complaining about?!" It is that stance, in my eyes, that is the problem -- or at least a major part of it.

Instead of railing against "allegations," what if you just blew off your emotional reaction, and approached it from an intellectual P.O.V.: "Okay, what can I do to make the situation better?"

and for you, election_2004: The genuine desire to understand why sharing the blame for allowing injustice to continue is such a daunting, threatening proposition, and why you react so vehemently to it.

Because there's only so much that I as an individual can do to control other people's actions. I can only control my own.

Therefore, "sharing the blame" makes absolutely no sense to me.

Yes, you can only control your own actions. I agree with you 100% on that. But I ask you to try to see your own actions as they affect others. For instance, what if this thread were about you -- and what if the question were this: "Why does election_2004 feels s/he has the right to complain that s/he's being judged unfairly? You have no right to complain -- the problem is all in your head!"

It wouldn't be fair. It would be downright wrong. And you'd be mad as hell, because your issues are very real and very important to you.

I believe you feel maligned because you're white, and you feel you're being judged unfairly. And I'm sure it's even more frustrating when it seems like everybody's telling you that you're wrong to feel the way you do -- and that your beef with the situation is all in your head.

Well, that's how people feel when they really have been maligned unfairly -- not because of the way they think, but because of the way they look, or the way they speak, or whom they love.

And I think that's where any attempt at real communication on this issue crumbles. We've all been slammed for our beliefs, and for our actions -- but unless you've been slammed because of your skin color, or your ethnicity, or your very nature, it's almost impossible to come up with an example that will give you that "light-bulb moment."

I can try -- but again, I can't speak for African-Americans. (Uh, hello? Black DUers? This is your cue to fill in what I can't possibly! LOL)

Now, if you want to know what it's like to be a lesbian tired of being told that anti-gay bigotry doesn't exist, then I'm your girl. :D

[Karenina]

110. Sapphocrat,

You're BRILLIANT! :loveya: THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time and effort to write these posts. You nailed it and more. Sure, I got tongue in cheek with election_2004, knowing I'd elicit a hostile response consistent with the anger and hostility his other posts convey.
I jes' couldna hep mahself!!! :silly: I am delighted that my mischief caused you to step up to the plate. You REALLY hit it out of the ballpark!!!

[election_2004]

115. responses

By reacting the same way white Americans have for the past ten generations or so: It's not my fault. I wasn't a slave owner. I didn't stand in the way of any black kids going to public schools in 1964. Why do you blame ME for all of that? And that perpetuates that very attitude among other whites. You do have an impact on other people's thinking, other people's actions, even when you don't think you do. I'm not saying you're responsible for the "malicious actions of others" -- but you do have an impact. And when you perpetuate the idea that "It's not my problem!" that is a problem.

First of all, I never said "It's not my problem." I believe that it is all of society's problem, and therefore, the problem of racism (no matter who it's directed toward) does have an affect on me (albeit much less so than the individual-in-question who's being discriminated against). There's a difference between saying "It's not my fault" and "It's not my problem." I am saying the former, but not the latter.

But why is it so wrong for me to ask not to be blamed for someone else's racism, especially when no one is articulating HOW I'm specifically contributing to the problem?

You can make the argument that I'm making it easier for some guilty whites to absolve themselves from any blame if I contend that I bear no blame for these problems. But that is based on how they subjectively interpret my point, which I have no control over. I can try to clarify it for them, but some people won't get it no matter what I tell them.

It's the same way in which someone who happens to advocate affirmative action may express outright hostility toward whites when making their case for affirmative action; such loaded rhetoric will make people even more opposed to the concept of affirmative action, but that one advocate's bad attitude does not mean the concept should be scrapped altogether. Some people extrapolate the hatred of a (well-meaning) social justice advocate and use it as an excuse to rail against the policy itself. That's wrong of them to do so, but it's the same principle as the reactions you've described - - where a person of a non-white racial background might take offense to me finding myself blameless, because of the associative self-absolution that the guilty whites will take it open themselves to adopt (simply by virtue of how since I, as a white person, am doing it, whites who are actively contributing to the problem think it's okay for them to do it too).

I don't see owning one's share of the blame as self-flagellation for an issue you can't do anything about. I see it taking responsibility for doing something instead of just clucking my tongue over the ignorance of other people: Who can I talk to, how can I vote, which representatives can I write to, to bring attention to matters of injustice, whether they affect me or not? If I didn't do those things (as well as ask questions of people who feel oppressed, in order to understand why they feel oppressed), I would bear the responsibility of doing nothing. Which, to me, is actively contributing to the problem.

So if I write to my congresspeople, speak out against racism, and call racists' on their ignorance, do I still bear any blame for their actions?

But that's just what I do. It may not be what works for you. As I said, first you examine your own attitudes. Then you go on to figuring out how you, with what you do best, can contribute to changing what's wrong between blacks and whites -- or gays and straights, or liberals and conservatives.

In other words, I'm part of the problem unless I participate in a proactive way toward solving the problem?

Sometimes the very best thing you can do is simply ask somebody to sit down and show you what it's like to walk in their shoes, as best they can. I can't speak for black folks -- I'm just a middle-aged white chick -- but I'll bet if you asked, more than a few African-American DUers would explain what they would wish you could see, and what you might do that could help heal things, if only a small bit.

Well, if anyone out there wants to share such a narrative experience with me (even if you prefer to do it through PM)...I'm listening...

[sleepystudent]

25. oh good lord...

I never post here, I just lurk and I always post way after the thread was started, but...just please...anyone who thinks being black in America is "about the same as being white" has to be smoking something funny. One, it has been less than 200 years since blacks were collectively freed from slavery, which is no time at all considering slavery occurred for 400 years. The Civil Rights Act is less than what? 40 years old? Again no time at all. But oh yeah that's enough time for all of us to just "get over it" and hold hands in brotherhood. And to the people that always persist in bringing up the Irish as an example of how whites have had it bad too, please read "How the Irish became White" a book where it is shown how the Irish used their white privilege which all whites regardless of class or wealth, have, to step over and dominate blacks and perpetuate and intensify racism.

And this whole idea that "Racism must not be bad, I don't see any lynchings around here and stuff" Again, that's not all that racism is-it comes in many different forms and is more systemic that sudden and violent anymore and yes, sorry, it still affects non-whites the most, perpetuated by white males. Believe me, the suspicion and polite interrogation you get from whites just for being black and walking somewhere "where you don't belong" just gnaws at you and it is constant. And for the people that say whites should try experiencing racism by going overseas, that pretty much sums up how good you have it-you have to travel to a place, stay there temporarily, often a place that is 99.9% one race to experience what racism might feel like. Try it in the country of your birth, where your ancestors have lived for centuries and in a diverse society and then we can talk.

And to election_2004...there are no words for what I felt when I read your post. Just sickening. Yeah, you shouldn't bitch about affirmative action. And yeah, white people were responsible for the subjugation and enslavement of other people, often based on ideas of white supremacy, So what if you find it annoying-it's true. Racism is systematic and is wielded by people with power-in America, that's mostly white people. Whiteness shields you from being the victim of racism that could deny you housing, deny you employment, restrict you to certain neighborhoods, etc. White people don't have to worry about that...sorry if you don't like to hear that.

I think being white means that you could be judged as an individual more and not have certain assumptions or prejudices put upon you the instant you walk into a door. And there are priveleges that come with being white no matter your income. That said, I really can't imagine being white myself actually.

[Zuni]

26. responsible for the enslavement and subjugation of others

And Africans did not sell them to whites? There was never slavery in Africa? Slavery doesn't exist even now in Sudan, Mauritania, and other parts of Africa?
Every race had slavery. In China there was chattel slavery and sex slavery well into the 20th Century. The Arabs were the most prolific slavers of all time, and some Arabs still practice slavery in N. Africa. Saudi Arabia hasd slavery until like 1960. In Russia for centuries more than half the population were slaves (called serfs, but still slaves).

As a white, I rarely see racism. I know no one who is a racist bigot. I do not know where you live but I have met very few whites who are hateful towards blacks. I think many blacks are paranoid and encouraged to believe they will always be victims no matter what.

I honestly think blacks percieve racial hostility where there is none. I have been accused of being racist by blacks for looking at them 'funny'or other stupid things. I was struck once by a black kid when i was in High school for no good reason, but I didn't run around crying hate crime. There are two sides, and often a person's perception can be wrong as to the intent of the supposed 'bigot'.

[noiretextatique]

27. could it be...could it possibly be

that you don't see racism...because you are white? is it possible, in your view, that a black person just possibly might have a different perspective? or would that just be paranoia and crying racism?

[Zuni]

30. they also might be encouraged

to think of themselves as a hopeless victim to racial discrimination and developed a life long paranoia.

Their perception of intent is no better than mine. I have seen all kinds of innocent people accused of racism for saying something that came out the wrong way even though they meant nothing of the sort.

[noiretextatique]

32. don't ya think your 'perceptions' are colored...just a tad?

by the fact that you are WHITE...since you seem to be saying that is true for BLACK people? or am i missing something in your argument?

[Zuni]

35. maybe

I am a slave to my own bias and perceptions, just like you and everyone else.
I am not an expert on racial issues, so I am done arguing.

[Karenina]

46. I grew up in Maryland.

Had to get away from there at 15 as I was much "too sensitive" to the pervasive and oppresive racism that surrounded me. I would guess that you are young, Zuni, as you seem prolific until challenged. Denial is a big part of the dynamic that provokes. If you've never seen racism in Maryland, you simply are not paying attention or are more interested in protecting your perceptions of yourself and your circle of friends than addressing a painful issue that others deal with on a daily basis. That IS your prerogative as part of the dominant culture with whom you identify.

[DrWeird]

53. "I honestly think blacks...

...percieve racial hostility where there is none."

Hmm, seems like a broad defamation and propagation of a negative stereotype against a group of people based on their skin color.

What's the word for that?

[Zuni]

28. You do not think your perception might be wrong?

I think there might be just as much error in perception of racist intent as there is actual incidents of racist intent.

I have seen well intentioned people accused of racism and bigotry when they meant nothing of the sort, one person's perception was wrong and such.

[noiretextatique]

31. yes...i am sure this is the case: ALL THE TIME

i am sure this was the case in the racial discriminations lawsits filed...and won...against coca cola and toyota...to name just a few. must have been 'different perceptions' :eyes:

[Zuni]

33. I did not say all the time

There still is racism out there, but I also do not think there is a constant oppressive white male preying on innocent blacks either.

Obviously, there are incidents of real racist discrimination and incidents of percieved, but not real racial discrimination. In my life at least, I see more of the latter.

[noiretextatique]

34. who said IT WAS...besides YOU? eom

[Zuni]

36. I have no idea to what you are reffering to

I am done arguing. You have you perception, i have mine.

[noiretextatique]

42. "I also do not think there is a constant oppressive white male preying"

i was referring to this statement. i was referring to the fact that this is your perception, one that is probably shared by some, but certainly not by me. i was referring to the fact that characterizing a situation from a certain perspective might lead to some expected conclusion. i believe this is called a "self-fulfilling prophesy." and...i wasn't arguing...just discussing.

[cosmicdot]

47. I think Texaco has its issues, too, didn't they?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=texaco+and+discrimination

[Nikia]

39. You might live in a very progressive area, but I don't

Most whites are somewhat racist in my area. I don't mean on par with the Klan. I mean that they are suspicious of people of other races. They make negative assumptions and certainly wouldn't want someone of a different race marrying their child. People of other races have a more difficult time getting a job if they are not college educated or a college student when applying for the simplest jobs. When I worked at the food plant with a 80% Hispanic second shift, most of the non Hispanics expressed discomfort about being around "them". I sat in the break room with my Mexican friend and one day I noticed that I was the only non Hispanic that sat there aside from one part time elderly woman who worked two days per week. This is despite the fact that there were no problems whatsoever in the plant with laziness, rule breaking, or hostilities (I'm not saying that should justify prejudice. I am just saying that there was nothing going on that would "confirm" their stereotypes.). In all fairness, they also are suspicious of any white who is not from around the area or is "different". I guess that racism may be just an extension of this. The white outsider could become one of them in time. A person of a different race will never become one of them.

[election_2004]

38. playing my violin for sleepystudent

And to election_2004...there are no words for what I felt when I read your post. Just sickening.

Likewise.

Yeah, you shouldn't bitch about affirmative action.

I never said that I personally believe the concept of affirmative action should be eliminated. I was making the point that "getting revenge on whites" shouldn't be a justification for the advocacy of any affirmative action program.

And yeah, white people were responsible for the subjugation and enslavement of other people, often based on ideas of white supremacy, So what if you find it annoying-it's true.

I don't find it annoying, and of course it's a historical fact. I was making another point that I shouldn't be held accountable for their actions just because I'm white.

Racism is systematic and is wielded by people with power-in America, that's mostly white people.

Explain to me all this "power" I supposedly have, just because I'm white.

Whiteness shields you from being the victim of racism that could deny you housing, deny you employment, restrict you to certain neighborhoods, etc. White people don't have to worry about that...sorry if you don't like to hear that.

That's only true if the employer, neighbor, or landlord is using skin color as the standard by which they're judging you.

But if some of them find out that I'm a homosexual or a polytheist, I'd better watch out...

I think being white means that you could be judged as an individual more and not have certain assumptions or prejudices put upon you the instant you walk into a door.

Actually, I've encountered many people who refuse to treat me as an individual because I'm white. They automatically assume that I'm an oblivious, clueless, redneck racist and that I think a certain way just because I'm white.

So I don't see how my race enables me to be treated very much like an individual.

And there are priveleges that come with being white no matter your income.

The only real "white privilege" that I can imagine is when white people get free passes from other white people who believe in white superiority. This too often happens in instances of housing, employment, and the like.

So what are we supposed to do about other white people whom we encounter who have racist attitudes - - force them to think a certain way? Do you honestly believe that the racist whites are going to brainwash all other whites into harboring those same attitudes?

That said, I really can't imagine being white myself actually.

Well, then who are you to criticize me?

[Isome]

51. Affirmative Action isn't revenge. Why would you think that?

e o m

[election_2004]

60. I don't think that....

But some proponents of affirmative action say that white people need to shut up and stop complaining when they find themselves at a disadvantage because of an affirmative action program...because according to them, white people have reaped all the benefits for decades, so now it's time for white people to experience being "screwed over" for a change.

Those are the sentiments, believe it or not, of some people who want to keep affirmative action programs in place (or expand them).

[Karenina]

63. The truth is

Affirmative action has NOT put whites at a "disadvantage." That meme is one of the hooks the RW has hung its hat on. The greatest beneficiaries of AA policies have been WHITE WOMEN. Believe it or not. Take that to the bank.

[election_2004]

65. I can believe that

But try telling it to the type of the people who I described above.

They let their own self-loathing interfere with articulating the facts.

[noiretextatique]

68. actually...white people have benefitted from affirmative action

at least some have...it was called slavery, then jim crow. jim crow was a kind of affirmative action, and it's effects were generational. it's plain, old common sense...too bad there is so much denial and plain, old ignorance about it. not that ALL white people benefitted to the extent that some did, but surely in a racial caste system with white people on top...that lasted 100+ years (not to mention 350+ years of slavery)...certainly some whites had an artificial advantage. unfortunately...that just doesn't suddenly and magically disappear because segregation was ended...less than 50 years ago. if you think so...you are just fooling yourself in the uniquely american way (shared perhaps by white south africans) of race-based denial.

[Red State Rebel]

88. I believe that anyone's life is what they make it.

[noiretextatique]

91. while that's *really* deep

it addresses nothing in my post :eyes:

[Red State Rebel]

93. Sorry, I meant to post this as a comment to the original post, however,

I do believe that being sarcastic and angry are more of a disadvantage than race could ever be.

[HEyHEY]

94. But that's all I'm good at

:-)

[noiretextatique]

95. actually, i'm feeling rather upbeat

and of course, i didn't know you replied to the wrong post :think:

[election_2004]

102. oh great, more accusations...

you are just fooling yourself in the uniquely american way (shared perhaps by white south africans) of race-based denial.

Thank you for assuming that you know what I think about race relations in America. :eyes:

Yeah, categorically clumping me (and my supposed opinions) together with all other white people in the U.S. and South Africa is just the perfect way to persuade me that I need to look at racial issues in a different way. :eyes: :eyes:

Learn some people skills, Chuckles.

[cosmicdot]

40. being white, gay and living on disability benefits

and only Medicare ...

having fought for my civil rights and having experienced "fear" and having seen the system up-close and personal ... from the corrupt walls of corporate america (where I was told I didn't fit the mold of their white America; yet, I called for efforts to build community ... go figure) ... to the bucks-for-justice system ... even watching 'the family' become dysfunctional ...

plus, living in

~ George Bush's America ~

with John Ashcroft in the DOJ

and Scalia-Thomas-Rehnquist on the SCOTUS

... and, all the repression and such these days ...

... things could be much better ... but, also, much worse ...

we French Huguenots have been through worse ... they chopped off our heads with le guillotine ... been there, done that to learn that disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God ... sic semper tyrannus ... and, all that jazz ...

just scratching the surface here, but

thanks for asking

[HEyHEY]

43. You know the Irish were once traded as slaves...

So there was a white slavery problem at one time.

[cosmicdot]

44. and, indentured servants

in colonial America

On the Misfortune of Indentured Servants
http://www.jmu.edu/madison/servan.htm

The sale of human beings in the market on board the ship is carried on thus: Every day Englishmen, Dutchmen and High-German people come from the city of Philadelphia and other places, in part from a great distance, say 20, 30, or 40 hours away, and go on board the newly arrived ship that has brought and offers for sale passengers from Europe, and select among the healthy persons such as they deem suitable for their business, and bargain with them how long they will serve for their passage money, which most of them are still in debt for. When they have come to an agreement, it happens that adult persons bind themselves in writing to serve 3, 4, 5 or 6 years for the amount due by them, according to their age and strength. But very young people, from 10 to 15 years, must serve till they are 21 years old.

but, that was then ... and, this is now ... "be glad you have a job" ... Corporate Feudalism, etc.

of course, there's Wal-Mart

[HEyHEY]

45. ANd helping Dad with yardwork

[Logansquare]

48. My personal experience

Despite my avatar, I'm a white female--not a African male leader. I have many memories that trouble me. Not because there was injustice, but because my family and my community accepted it as normal.

You grow up in the early 60s in a more nearly 100 percent white rural community, the kind of place where the same families have farmed for over 100 years. On TV, you see riots, policemen with dogs, young black people being battered and knocked down with firehose blasts. Racism is something bad white people in the South do. They chew tobacco like Rod Steiger and call the nice, well-mannered Sidney Poitier the "N" word, and "boy." However, you notice that your Dad's friends from the plant use the "N" word all of the time. Your parents don't use this word, and forbid you to do so, they never say anything to the men who do. They never say anything when the men pretend to talk like black people or tell nasty jokes about them. Sammy Davis Jr. marries a white woman. You can't blame him; doesn't everyone want to marry a pretty, blond white woman? But what about her--everyone says she's some sort of whore. Adults and older kids snicker about it and say things you don't understand, but sounds dirty. After a big strike, a few black people are hired to do assembly at your dad's factory. All of the managers are white men, which is normal. Your mom works at a little department store in a nearby, larger town. The manager tells her to watch those colored people because they have "sticky fingers," and she has to follow black people around the store or get in trouble. It never occurs to her to refuse, even though it makes her uncomfortable. One day, a shoplifter is caught red handed. He is a white man, a successful engineer. He pays the store off, and the police are never called...

[KG]

54. sigh - some of the replies on this thread confirm the fact

that not only is racism alive and well in american society, there is plenty to be found on DU. :(

[Sapphocrat]

57. My take

As a white American, I feel a sense of unearned privilege.

I also feel embarrassed by white people who think African-Americans are treated the same way white Americans are. It's similar to the embarassment I feel about * representing the U.S.; I want to scream, "That person does not represent ME, damn it!"

[election_2004]

67. How?

Explain the situations in which you feel "privileged"...

[Sapphocrat]

80. It's all right in front of you...

All you need to do is re-read some of the posts from African-Americans in this and other threads about their experiences -- for example, the woman who wrote about being followed around whenever she enters an upscale store, or the way white women grab hold of their purses when they see her coming, or (and this is the biggest, in my eyes) Driving While Black. Just to name a few (very few) examples.

Then realize that these are situations have never, and would never, happen to me, solely because I am white.

Now, why should I not be scrutinized when I enter Niemann-Marcus? Why don't other women hold tight to their purses when they see me coming? Why would a cop barely notice me out driving at 3:00 in the morning -- regardless of the neighborhood I was in?

Because of my white skin, that's why. Society at large lets me go about my business, and automatically assumes I have a right to be somewhere, because I am white. These are privileges I receive through no effort on my part. Hence, unearned privilege.

[election_2004]

103. those examples

Yes, those are certainly definite examples of white privilege, in ways that such discrimination is distinctly unique to black Americans.

Now going beyond acknowledging that it exists and having an awareness of it, what else should I/we/society do to end it?

Would love to hear your insights...

[Sapphocrat]

108. Very little insight here, but I'll do my best

Yes, those are certainly definite examples of white privilege, in ways that such discrimination is distinctly unique to black Americans.

I really hate to disagree with you again, but I sincerely doubt any of it is "distinctly unique to black Americans." I don't have a handle on what's going on in South Africa right now, but I would guess all this (and much worse) happens there -- and I can tell you without a doubt that relations between white Australians and Aboriginals -- while light-years beyond white and black America -- are still pretty sorry in a lot of areas. (You'd be shocked, for instance, by how many Aboriginals die in police custody -- and how not one white cop has ever been convicted of any wrongdoing. Driving While Aboriginal can be a cardinal sin Down Under, too.)

Now going beyond acknowledging that it exists and having an awareness of it, what else should I/we/society do to end it?

Would love to hear your insights...

As I wrote to you in another post, I can only tell you what I do: I ask questions (the answers to which usually open my eyes to issues I wasn't even aware of). I write letters to my congresspeople (often a waste of time, but I have to try). I blog news stories as my way of making more people conscious of injustice to all people, whether they're black, white, gay, or whatever. I write letters to the editor. I speak with my pocketbook, and boycott companies and organizations (and I write to let them know why they'll never get my business again). And, for whatever it's worth anymore, I speak with my vote.

Maybe that doesn't seem like much, but it's what I do, because I feel it's what I do best. And, judging from some of the response I've gotten, I've opened one or two other eyes. And that's where it all starts.

Finally, I ask the very people in question what I can do -- what works, and what doesn't. I don't pussyfoot around the issue... and I don't see it as acting like some sort of faux bleeding-heart liberal. Nor does it alleviate any "guilt," because I honestly don't feel "guilty" -- I only feel responsible for doing what I know how. (If I didn't, then I would feel guilty.)

Being gay, and very much oppressed, I welcome (and even beg!) people who want to know what they can do to ease my lot, too. I figure we all can help each other out, and so far, nobody's looked at me like I was from outer space yet.

So ask them. If your intentions are sincere, I have no doubt you'll get a sincere answer.

[election_2004]

116. response

While the conditions you described in South Africa and Australia may be very true, I was speaking solely in the context of American society (for the purposes of our discussion). Sorry for the confusion.

I write letters to my congresspeople (often a waste of time, but I have to try). I blog news stories as my way of making more people conscious of injustice to all people, whether they're black, white, gay, or whatever. I write letters to the editor. I speak with my pocketbook, and boycott companies and organizations (and I write to let them know why they'll never get my business again). And, for whatever it's worth anymore, I speak with my vote.

Maybe that doesn't seem like much, but it's what I do, because I feel it's what I do best. And, judging from some of the response I've gotten, I've opened one or two other eyes. And that's where it all starts.

Are there other things you could do that you've consciously realized you haven't been doing?

Finally, I ask the very people in question what I can do -- what works, and what doesn't. I don't pussyfoot around the issue... and I don't see it as acting like some sort of faux bleeding-heart liberal.

So ask them. If your intentions are sincere, I have no doubt you'll get a sincere answer.

Do you think that would be an inappropriate subject for me to post on DU as a general thread?

[foreigncorrespondent]

69. Going by my...

...experience in Louisiana I can honestly say that black people are not treated the same in the U.S. as what plain ole' white folk are.

I remember my (then) partner was teaching her 3 year old grandson to use the "N" word. Of course this was a huge shock to me, because here I was visiting the U.S. for the first time, and these are the people representing the rest of the country?

To this day I still think about that, and I am thankful that, that relationship didn't work out, and I was able to meet you and of course learn that not all Americans were that rude.

[PacificWind]

101. Rabbit-Proof Fence . . .

an electrifying movie that is highly charged.

Powerful.

~since the other thread was locked~

[Lizz612]

73. I agree with you

I got that feeling when I looked around my IB English class senior year of high school, one bi-racial girl, one Hmong girl and 20 some odd white kids. I get that feeling when I look around my public honors college and the population is 80% white. And my biology for bio majors class is 100 students or so and maybe 12 are black. I look at where I am and I KNOW somewhere along the line my white, white skin did something for me, something that I consider unfair, but at the time, how could I know?

I also feel that, as I have never experience racism, its not my place to talk about it. Those who know say its still there, its still strong. I tend to trust them on this. And that others like me, who have never felt racism, should stop talking about things they know nothing about. (That last comment not an attack on anyone here, just a general feeling that applies to everything from racism to enginering to cooking)

[Cheswick2.0]

59. I have no idea, I am a woman

not the same as being a white male at all.

[DrWeird]

62. White women are also responsible for racism.

There was a study I heard about in an education journal, I'll have to read it and get a reference. It dealt with racism in early childhood education. You know, white and asian kids get sent to the gifted education class, black kids get sent to special education classes. The study found that there was absolutely no reason for the discrepancy, that it was entirely racist, and the vast majority of the teachers doing it were white women. Something to think about.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KG]

77. how civil.

[Cheswick2.0]

81. really? and you think his remark to me was civil?

really?

[KG]

87. and what was so uncivil about his post?

[HEyHEY]

89. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer

:-)

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

114. Well I was certainly trying to be civil.

Although I'd agree that the lions share of opression comes from white miles, I could have said how dare you ignore the contributions that white women have made to centuries of oppression against black people. For example, it's the false accusations of rape from white women against black men that led to thousands of black people being murdered.

[HEyHEY]

72. well the question was not gender specific

[Cheswick2.0]

75. DUH!

did I say it was gender specific? Miss the point much?

[KG]

76. how civil.

[Cheswick2.0]

83. and you can bite me too, since you seem to want to butt in and pick

a fight. Who said I had to be civil to uncivil people? :shrug:

[KG]

86. childish

and hypocritical.

[noiretextatique]

98. hey there, cheswick

it seems you got embroiled in a deep pile of shit here. personally...you are one of the DUers i know i could count on if i was cornered by some skinheads. i respect and admire you cheswick...all opera singers have my most sincere admiration and respect,...especially those who are as consistently real and right as our friend cheswick :loveya: my comrade KG is another person i know would have my back...i respect and appreciate you, and your perspective as well. and heyehey...you are on my admiration list also :loveya: i hope this little misunderstanding is just that. :loveya: all of you...and you know: i have your backs too :loveya:

[HEyHEY]

82. No put your answer was gender specific and made no sense

[Cheswick2.0]

84. it makes perfect sense, but you never get the point

so why bother?
I seem to remember you getting all bent out of shape another time you didn't get the point. Sorry you don't get me, lots of other people do. Maybe you should just give up trying.

[HEyHEY]

85. What the FUCK is up your craw?

No one here has written anything to you that was intended to be insulting and you're acting like a child....no I don't get what you are saying just like you don't get what I'm saying...so why don't you explain it a little to me?

[cosmicdot]

71. the Corporate Board rooms are doing just fine

now, if you'll excuse us, our errand boy is here with a delivery

[Insider]

92. a tale of two re-tests

short story related to me by someone involved in a very quiet investigation at a police training academy:

an officer assigned to the academy used his power (grading tests) to reduce the number of black recruits. he graded fairly on all first tests. and on re-tests, he graded fairly on the front page. he even graded fairly on all multiple choice & true/false questions. but on re-tests, after the first page, on ONLY completion (or "fill in the blank") and essays questions, he graded blacks more harshly. in fact, after investigating all re-tests he graded for at least 4 academy rotations, it was discovered that his grading method failed those recruits out of the academy. he apparently knew who was in danger of failing out, knew everyone's grade point average, and what would tip the scale. he was reassigned. not sure if it ever became public knowledge, or if any lawsuits were filed.

so, i do not claim to know why he did what he did. it sure looked like he was trying very hard to cover his tracks. and not being white, i can't say much about what that experience is like. but i do know that it was like being given the benefit of the doubt, and an extra opportunity to succeed, in that situation. sometimes there IS a man behind the curtain.

my father always said that if we are DISadvantaged, then somebody must be advantaged.

[TennesseeWalker]

96. For me, it's great.

I don't have many complaints. It's a whole lot easier to be an educated white male in this country. I think educational levels determine more than skin color, although I do think a white male has it much, much easier. A lot safer to speed through hick towns when you're white.

Not that there's anything WRONG with hick towns......lol

[noiretextatique]

97. i like your style, tennesseewalker

:hi: it's not so bad being a black woman either...wouldn't trade it for the world. and education does help a whole lot...i'm glad my parents pushed me so much. of course, i didn't understand when i was younger. i got straight a's and a b once, and all my dad focused on was that b...i didn't get it at the time, but i sure understand it now. education...and money help just about everyone.

[election_2004]

105. ah, more blanket paradigms...

DWB certainly doesn't make life easy for racial minority groups.

But that's not the only facet of a person's life that should be subject to comparison.

[Leftist78]

99. I believe

that the biggest divider in America is socioeconomic. I grew up in a trailer in the south (insert ignorant stereotype here), and I can tell you it's no bed of roses. My family worked hard for what we had, but no matter how hard they worked, we never seemed to get any further ahead. Poverty truly is a vicious cycle

At least where I come from, the wealthy have become very good at making sure the "right kind of people" run things around here. The sad truth is, where you end up in life often depends on where you started out.

That being said, being black would have made the situation even worse in some respects.

[Solly Mack]

107. Damn white people-always talking yourself up

white people this, white people that...blah blah blah

Oh get a grip-it's sarcasm and I resisted all I could.

[Piperay]

109. It's easier and

I know it. I know that if I was a minority I would have much harder time of it and I honestly don't think I could deal with what people of color have to put up with without becoming depressed and very angry.

[onebigbadwulf]

111. It's great

unless you're trying to get into medical school...

[Karenina]

113. Were you being sarcastic?

Or are you willing to expand on your comment? I am interested in your POV.

[argyl]

112. It really sucks.Rush told me so.

xx

[populistmom]

117. It means I need more sunscreen

Seriously though, being white is probably easier and if white people won't admit that, they're probably in denial or simply unknowledgable about the history of this country. Just a generation ago, people of color were still illegally being denied voting rights. Come to think of it, in states like Florida, they still are. We have a long, long way to go. I have openly argued unfortunately with other caucasians when they have made racists comments. Usually when they are called on the crap they've said, surprised this fellow pale person did not go along with them, they say, "It was just a joke." It's not a joke. At any time in history, whatever group you are a member of was persecuted by someone, somewhere. This stuff is never a joke.