Question for heterosexual male DUers....

[election_2004]

I keep hearing so much conventional wisdom about how heterosexual women often feel more comfortable around gay men because of common interests and a lack of sexual tension, as compared to when they're around hetero men. Also, how some heterosexual women feel no discomfort changing clothes in front of homosexual guy friends because they equate it to being with one of their *girlfriends*. I don't have many close female friends (and the ones I do have are mostly lesbians), so I can't verify this claim from any sort of personal experience.

So my question today is for the heterosexual men on DU...

How many close friends or semi-close friends/acquaintances do you have who are gay men?

If you have close people in your life (and I'm referring only to platonic friends, NOT to your blood relatives or family!) who are gay males, what is your comfort level around them? For example, would you feel awkward changing clothes in front of them or showering in a locker room with them? Would you feel any sort of sexual tension or discomfort if, say, a gay male saw you naked?

How openly do you discuss topics together, particularly about issues of sex or sexuality? Do you find it easy to make good-spirited and/or raunchy jokes with them?

Finally, what is your age? (or what is your basic age range, if you don't want to disclose your actual age)? I'm just curious how people's attitudes differ from one generation to another?

Disclaimer: I myself am a gay male, but I am only asking these questions with curiosity as a way to better inquire about and understand social dynamics and how they relate to individuals personally.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[election_2004]

2. This is not meant to be flame-bait....

I just want to better understand how people think.

But if you don't feel comfortable answering any of the questions I posed, that's fine.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[election_2004]

37. You are so off-base, it's ridiculous...

I'm both homosexual and polytheist...I'm hardly an agent for Republican fundamentalists.

The reason I started this thread was to find out from people if there was any validity to that stereotype ("hetero women feel ok changing clothes in front of gay men, but hetero men don't"), in their experiences. I wanted to hear specifically from heterosexual men because men rarely ever get to socially contribute to this discussion.

Get a clue.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[youngred]

76. "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"

Stereotypes may be worthless but they do have meaning. In that people believe in them and react accordingly. Examining the validity of them and working to change them is an important part of reversing the negative social construction about gay men and women. It's therefore very important to gay people to examine why some straights feel the way they do, why do you immediately see that as an obsession with the ridiculous and moronic?

and so what if the person isn't here on legit purposes. The discussion itself is still important

[Occulus]

3. heheh

Oh, yes, you do. But if you're afraid to answer the rest for fear of getting banned, my guess is that they're afraid to tell you because they fear losing you as a friend when you find out.

My parents found out, and they gave me the boot and abandoned me. Some of my 'friends' did the same. I traded in who I was then to deal with it, and I'm now someone I wish I had never been because of that.

Since you're afraid to answer for fear of getting banned, just let me give you a small piece of information: gay men don't salivate over every man they see, just as straight men don't salivate over every woman they see.

*sigh*

[Ediacara]

9. gay men don't salivate over every man they see

Well I did go to freepwad's site, and he IS pretty cute, but far too hateful for me to give a second look.

[election_2004]

18. hehe, he is pretty cute...

The poor boy. :(

[Closer]

25. What's the webpage?

I thought I saw that that poster had several posts? Was he a newbie disruptor?

[election_2004]

26. apparently so

They already delted his post, and I can't remember the URL offhand.

[Occulus]

5. and I'm alerting you besides

I just saw your webpage. Bye, disruptor; nice knowin ya.

[Skip Intro]

12. What a sad webpage

How can someone truly believe in the teachings of Christ, and promote the moron in chief and his wingnut apologists? Christ wouldn't support a gang of thugs who have murdered tens of thousands of people for lies.

Christ isn't a campaign prop, and niether is Christianity, the flag or our military.

Are they all on oxycontin?

[zatoichi]

70. Precisely

I'm usually a pretty flip person, but this response is quite in earnest.

Yes. I have reason to believe that they (the Bushista thugs) ARE on oxycontin...or something similar.

[HFishbine]

14. Will actions or beliefs get him banned?

It took me a while to get ahold of the DU standards. I think I have a pretty good handle on them now.

Should Charwick be banned just because he seems to identify with reight-wing views? Maybe he'll learn a thing or two if we let him hang around. Until his behavior actually crosses the line to becoming disruptive or disagreeable with "our principles" as the DU rules state, why not let him stay?

(Chadwick, you might increase your chances for survival if you changed your tag line.)

[Occulus]

20. Sigh.

I'm really of two minds about this. On the one hand, yes, he could learn something if he read DU, but... my overall experience is that people who would shut down every abortion clinic in the US, ban gay marriage, shut down the US Dept. of Education.... my experience is that these people can't be 'converted', ever. Their beliefs are based in wilful ignorance, and there are none so blind as those who will not see.

On the other hand, this is a stated Democratic website intended for discussion of values consistent with that slant. My guess is that if he hadn't been immediately identified as a disruptor- and the link to his website, added to his post count, clearly is wholly antithetical to Democratic Party values- he would have eventually attempted to hijack this thread. In short, we are waging preemptive warfare to prevent political terrorism :)

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Hey Disruptor!

You should probably not put a link to your right-wing webpage in your sig if you're trying to infiltrate a progressive website. I mean, like, DUH!!!

:spank:

[Selwynn]

4. I have three gay male friends

I am perfectly comfortable around them, why wouldn't I be?

I discuss everything with them, why should it be any different than discussing topics with anyone else?

I am 26.

[election_2004]

7. awesome <n/t>

[JI7]

6. another question you should have asked

you should have asked if the gay friend(s) were friends and especially long time close friends before they found out they were gay. and if the things they use to do or felt changed once they found out.

[Selwynn]

69. I'll answer that.

One was a long time friend, it changed nothing - I bewildered as to why it should change anything? I was actually kind of excited about it because he felt like he came to an important understanding about himself.

Two were gay when I met them - they are two of the best guys I know.

I'll take a gay man to be friends with over a straight type-a male any day of the week and twice on sunday. :)

[MinnFats]

8. perhaps half a dozen gay friends....

...and one who died of AIDS.

get along pretty well.....could tell a good joke, discuss sexuality etc. with most without discomfort.

got a laugh, for example, from a couple of them with my pinocchio joke. Wanna hear it?

Q.) How did Pinocchio discover he was made of wood?
A.) His hand caught fire.

Doubt that an occasion to be naked/dressing with them, but I expect I could handle it. Only thing is, I might feel a little self-conscious because I just hurtled past 50 a while ago and no longer have my swimmer's body. Most of my gay friends take good care of themselves, and dress nattily (sp?) Not me.

Having a friend go through the process of dying of AIDS was very instructive, and humbling. I still miss my friend Jim a lot. He was kind of a stereotypical gay guy, but he was an Iron Man in his courage in facing the disease...I will always admire him.

[HFishbine]

10. MIddle Aged White Guy here

I have a three gay guys I'd call friends, and perhaps half a dozen more I'd call regular social aquaintances.

I'd feel awkward showering or changing in front of any guy, gay or straight, unless it was in a situation where the situation warranted -- at the gym, for example. Can't explain that really, but that's my answer.

There have been occassions where gay guys have come on to me (politely and in a way that wasn't objectionable to me) at the gym and I, in turn, let them know that I was straigth. That was usually the end of that. One however, would do things like deliberately follow me in to the shower and obviously stare at me. I found this exceptionally rude. It was disrespecful. My gym has two shower areas, so I was able to wordlessly express my displeasure by turning off my shower, and going to the other shower area. That worked.

But I digresss. With my gay male friends, I have and do discuss sex and sexuality. Usually not very at length and usually not in much detail. Mostly just as a way of understainding their life's journey.

I guess you could some up my "attitude" by saying that I don't prejudge someone for friendship based on their sexuality. I also don't, however, feel the desire to get into intimate details of sex acts. I really don't mind the joking flirtation that happens sometimes with the gay people I know. But I do have my limits. If you know I'm straight, and you pointedly and seriously try to come on to me, you'll piss me off.

[election_2004]

17. your experience at the gym...

One however, would do things like deliberately follow me in to the shower and obviously stare at me. I found this exceptionally rude. It was disrespecful.

See, even as a gay boy, I find his actions toward you very inappropriate.

Yes, I'll admit to "checking out" guys in the shower at the gym, but I make sure to do so very inconspicuously (since I figure most of the guys are going to be hetero, and I don't want them to feel uncomfortable around me). And usually it's guys who are around the same age as me (although since I use the gyms on my college campus, that's the age range that's usually there anyway).

But I'd never blatantly hit on a dude without first knowing his sexual orienation, and preferably, his relationship status.

[rasputin1952]

71. This brings up an interesting point...

while I do not necessarily put myself in the position of being in showers with other males, I have been such situations in the Army.
My straight forward answer to some guy that "hit" on me, was a quick and surefire "No".

While I believe that women have the same rights as men, a "No is a No", this particular individual decided to be, let's say, "aggressive". He spent a few hours in a dentists chair after that.

I know a few gay people, none of them I would call friends per se, but good acquaintances. I have never had any of them "hit on me", as they know I am straight, and they respect that, just as I respect there being gay.

Point is, if people would just realize that it is not an individual being straight or gay, but just a person, things would be better for everyone. Like most people, I do not think that being aggressive in sexual situations is warranted in any case.

Just some thoughts on the situation you asked about.

BTW: I am older than dirt.

:kick:

[buycitgo]

13. whenever I want a woman to take her clothes off.......

I tell her I'm gay.

I also am trying to register as a lesbian in Arkansas, as, according to a crazed CSPAN caller mentioned today, is possible:

she said she knew for certain that Hillary Clinton is a REGISTERED ARKANSAS lesbian!

best call I've ever heard, especially along w/host's response, something like: "How does one register as a lesbian in Arkansas"

ha!!!!

[coralrf]

34. To all you DU women...

I am gay. Are you getting naked yet?

What the fuck? How goofy can folks get in here?

[buycitgo]

36. not gay

naked

[bearfartinthewoods]

65. i'm glad i slept in and skipped cspan....

[durutti]

15. 2 that I know of

Maybe more.

[Egnever]

16. Not curently close to any gay men

Have been in the past though.

Far as comfort level goes, I would be lying if I said there wasnt always a certain.....hmm tension there. Not really a tension so much as an awareness. I never changed clothes in front of any of them but merely because the situation never came up. I dont think I would be uncomfortable about it but since it never hapened I cant tell you for sure.

As far as topic's pf conversations go. We always discused anything that came into our heads at the time including who they thought was a hotty and who I did. Raunchy jokes often were the norm not the exception.

I am 39

I certainly wouldnt put myself in the norm though regarding your average heterosexual male perspective. I have been arround gay comunities most of my life and got over percieving Gay people as a threat long ago.
I tend to let people make thier own impression on me and disregard or try to disregard all the prefabricated prejudices. Time after time though my life I have seen where most prejudices dont hold up under a carefull scrutiny. I would much rather judge a person based on thier interatcions with me than skin color or sexual orientation.

Some of my best times have been at gay parties or gatherings, once they get over me being a breeder that is :P

[seventhson]

19. Out of respect for you

and in utter disgust at the prior poster -- I thought I'd respond.

I have had a number of gay friends over the years who felt comfortable with me discussing a lot of issues.

I think it depends on the person though.

I am a sixties hippy political type who has had men attracted to him -- but I have also had some bad experiences with aggressive homosexuals when I was a teen and was practically kidnapped by a pedophile once and damn near froze to death on the side of a highway when I had to jump out of his car in the dead of winter.

This did not cause me generally any problem with gay males as an adult --- but there was usually no question that I was straight and felt little or no pressure.

My experiences with most gay men were through the women in my life and the theater. I think women like gay men because they can be themselves without pretending: they LIKE the bitchiness and cattiness and overt sexuality of some gay men and the "vulnerability" of many. They have things in common (including the ability to discuss things lots of straight guys are squeamish about)

I do get squeamish about explicit sexual references whether it is gay men or not gay men. I do not want to hear explicit details of other guys exploits. same with nudity around other men. I prefer nudity with women.

One of my best gay friends died of aids early in the plague. He was extremely promiscuous and was an absolutely wonderful character. He performed in the theater with me and we were not so much close friends as close social associates. A few of the other friends I have made were fine but still they seem uncomfortable with me as a straight guy. Some outright hostile, even.

One of my closest friends in law school turned out to be gay, but he never told me. I wondered why he never had a girlfriend. A political badass and activist - I admired him and still do.

The negative repurcussions of attempts to molest me as a teen left negative emotional baggage which makes me really abhor those who prey on younger boys - like priests etc. - but I learned that this is really a minority. Though some gay friends have intimated that it was such abuse that made them gay and made them stay in the closet.

I think unwanted sexual advances are always distasteful and uncomfortable - unless they are gentle and respectful.

And those who may make such advances -- who send such signals -- would make me more uncomfrtable. I am so blatantly hetero, though, that I get few offers now that I am grown.

[frustrated_lefty]

22. Just a thought..

sexual advances, wanted or not, are a compliment, and should be treated kindly until and unless the person making advances can't take "no" for an answer.

[seventhson]

33. It depends on the "advance"

crotch-grabbing and explicit suggestions are not necessarily a compliment. That is why I qualified it.

Exploitation is exploitation although there are gray areas for sure.

"You look good" is nice.

"I'd like a BJ" is not - depending on the circumstances.

[frustrated_lefty]

56. We agree. (eom)

[bearfartinthewoods]

75. sexual advances are a risk

no matter who does it to whom. you cannot compel people to take it the way you want them to, be it kindly or not.
just because you take it as a compliment and many people do, that does not discount other reactions or the people who have them.

waaaaay to personal an area to take for granted.

[frustrated_lefty]

21. 35.

To my knowledge, I don't currently know of any gay friends that I have, although I wouldn't be dismayed to discover any of my male friends are gay.

Honestly, my only "negative" response to gays is the occasional twinge of regret when I discover a woman I found attractive is lesbian. It doesn't make me hate her, it just makes me think "damn, she would have been nice to kiss."

I have had openly gay male friends. One in particular I worried about because he refused to wear condoms, and I don't want to see anyone die from AIDS, whether they be straight, bi, or gay.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. How would I know they're gay?

I mean obviously if we are close, I know. But for acquantances, male or female, I gave up guessing years ago. Maybe my gay-dar is broken.

But to answer your questions none of that stuff bothers me.

On edit: I'm 41.

[election_2004]

29. I meant...

If a friend or acquaintance confirms for a fact that they're gay - - or if you have a strong suspicion they are homosexual - - what level of discomfort do you think you'd feel, if any?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[election_2004]

32. Um....

This isn't a "push-poll." I was just clarifying based on the confusion that Feanorcurufinwe expressed.

I know that I'm gay, and I have no questions about my own sexuality, thank you very much.

[coralrf]

38. Who said you did?

You did. Now knock it off. I am a heterosexual but I am not going to make my entire life slave to it. There other things to life than sexual orientation.

If you wish to beat yourself up attribute the bruises to yourself.

Gay or whatever, there is no political or social concern there that is legitimate in the USA. Be gay. You must as that is the way you were born. Be blonde too if that is what you are but please understand that most of us don’t give a shit about your sex & love life. Not a shit.

[election_2004]

40. What's your problem?

First you accuse me of "push-polling," and then you claim that you have no problem with anyone's sexual orientation (yet you made a stereotypical quip associating homosexuality with the priesthood).

My only intent is to hear individual perspectives from people, which many DUers have shared on this thread very thoughtfully. If you have a problem with that, then quit reading this thread.

[coralrf]

46. "Whats your problem"...

can we do better than that.

Stereotypical quip..buddy its a proven fact. Read a newspaper and this forum is full of such sentiments.

Ill read any damn thread I like. I have a gay person here with me and he thinks this whole thread is a bunch of bullshit. His thoughts, "why must we subject ourselves to servile subjectivity in so far as our libido is concerned. Why must we be DIFFERENT! Why cannot we go about our lives as us..and not as GAY?

His name is Howard and he is a doctor. I trust his judgment and he disagrees with you and in fact thinks you a part of the problem via adopting the "stereotypical" position that your sexual orientation needs scrutiny.

[election_2004]

49. well, if "Howard" feels so strongly about it....

Have him register on DU and join in the discussion, to offer his own criticisms of me - - rather than using you as his de facto mouthpiece.

I would also like to inquire as to what are "Howard's" demographics? (age, income, social network)

[coralrf]

61. He is a white male...

Lives in Jacksonville Florida. He is 29. He just graduated from The University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine. He makes 54,000 a year plus benefits. He works 5 days a week. Drives a Bronco, works for me in Jacksonville Beach. Has no full time lover at the moment, loves the Gators.

He does not pat men on the ass. He does not hang out in Gay bars. He does not think his sexuality is "out there" for everyone to see. He does not think you are Gay and nor do I.

He is of French ancestry. Likes clinical pathology and Laser Surgery.He does not give a shit about politics. What else?

[election_2004]

82. Why do you both question my sexuality without even knowing me?

He does not think you are Gay and nor do I.

Why is that?

[youngred]

77. No, its a sterotype

blown out of proportion, especially considering that pedophile clergy occurs in about the same rate amongst the three monotheistic religions and across sects. Nice try though, and just because some are, justifiably angry about that, does not make it the truth.

The poster is not advocating stereotypes but asking about them. as for your "friend" who's there...howard...doctor...hmmmmm sounds like a spurr of the moment just came into your head cover to me. Oh wait that's an assertion of motive based on a reading of a post on an interent discussion site...where have I seen that in the last 5 minutes....right above my reply small world!

[bicentennial_baby]

35. Uh...

I think the poster you are referring to is...gay. Helps to read the whole thread before posting, does'nt it?

[coralrf]

42. The fact that he is gay was obvious...

I don’t see how he is going to get much done about it in here. Nor do I see that because he is gay he has a right to ask questions of a deep personal nature about OUR sexuality. I am sure he would object to being probed from our direction.

Democrats, if you hang onto the Gay/Straight thing as a political issue you buy right into Roves plan. For all we know bicentennial, 2004 works for the man. It matters not whether you "read the whole thread" as he asks for a response at its opening. Gays, Guns and Guts. All Democratic losers if we take the bait.

I think 2004 should resolve his sexuality issues like we Heteros are expected to: in private and as a personal not political issue.

[bicentennial_baby]

44. I think you have issues

"Nor do I see that because he is gay he has a right to ask questions of a deep personal nature about OUR sexuality"

People ask personal questions on DU about race, gender, economics, abortion etc. all the time. If you're not comfortable answering, then don't. You seem upset about this thread, and I don't understand.

"Democrats, if you hang onto the Gay/Straight thing as a political issue you buy right into Roves plan. For all we know bicentennial, 2004 works for the man. It matters not whether you "read the whole thread" as he asks for a response at its opening. Gays, Guns and Guts. All Democratic losers if we take the bait.

I think 2004 should resolve his sexuality issues like we Heteros are expected to: in private and as a personal not political issue"

You know who I see making gay issues into political issues? The right-wing, that's who. It's not the Dems who are up there trying to pass laws making marriage only between a man and a woman. If they want to make it an issue, we have no option but to fight back. Should we let them do as they wish, just because we are soooo afraid of losing? Fuck that.

[coralrf]

54. Bicentennial...

You know who I see making gay issues into political issues? The right-wing, that's who.

That is what I said. It is the GOP making it an issue...FOR US TO SOLVE!. That is how they WIN!!!!!!!!

2004 is entitled to no privilege for being Gay and he has a right to not suffering any derision or harm because of it. Those are the current rules in the USA. As you can see, there is nothing wrong with them. So Rove and the boys just stir up a bunch of shit, blame us and you defend 2004 blindly and set us up to be seen as the smoke blowers.

I see no future for the Liberal position in America, and certainly is is dissolving in front of us, if we do not take a look at what is killing it. 2004 and the Gay non-issue are killing us. This is not an issue for us to solve in a political forum or from the White House. It belongs is a personal chat room intended for such things.

Here is a concept for ya 2004 and Bicentennial, first you must get elected then you can make your presence known. Its done like this: Avoid difficult non-issues, minimize commitment to things easily manipulated by your opponents, speak out firmly on POLITICAL issues that effect everybody and get the votes. When elected take action on those things that would have kept you out if you included them in your campaign. Sound familiar? Yup BUSH DID THAT and he WON. Now he can have his conservative Judges, (that he did not identify with in campaign.. “strict constructionists.?.”), his Anti-abortion bills ( a topic he minimalized in campaign) and his extreme right wing economic and military moves ( remember all the Iraq crap in 2000 campaign?)

If 2004 wants a president, a legislature and a judiciary that will allow him to breathe he best not keep making the impossible the task of those folks. I would also suggest that Gays can be wrong, out of place and outright foolish. They are not excluded from such behavior.

[election_2004]

45. For your information....

I have no problem being asked and answering personal questions about my sexuality.

And if someone doesn't want to answer the questions I posed, they can simply choose to refrain from responding.

My questions were asked in the context of social relationships (and curiosity of those dynamics), not pertaining to what should or shouldn't be brought up as an issue in the 2004 election.

You're making this much more complicated than it actually is.

[bearfartinthewoods]

67. or avoiding threads with phrases like straight DUer who would obviously

be sexual in nature.

[youngred]

80. wow

quite opinionated on what others should do, because it doesn't meet your approval.

Go to the lounge archives, you'll see DOZENS of threads EVERYDAY (up until the timeout) about exploring Straight sexuality...

why the anger?

[bicentennial_baby]

39. and BTW

"Go talk to a Priest. They are experts in gay issues."

WTF is that supposed to mean? I do hope you are aware that pedophiles are overwhelmingly not homosexuals.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. None.

I don't have any close friends who live near me that I know are gay, but I've had enough gay friends over the years that I got over any discomfort a long time ago. But I don't think there was ever really much to begin with. No, I don't think discomfort would be a word I would have used.

[sfecap]

24. Answers...

Yes, I have gay friends. Two very close friends, numerous semi friends/aquaintences.

No, I wouldn't feel awkward in the least. They know I'm straight (and married), but they tell me they wish I weren't. LOL!

We discuss stuff and joke all of the time. I find it very easy. They're my friends! We have great times together.

48.

[quaker bill]

27. Several for sure

perhaps more. I honestly don't pay that much attention to other people's sexual activities. Male or female, gay, lesbian, or straight. It is just not my concern.

I have no problems or hang ups in this regard and would be unconcerned about anyone seeing me naked.

I am 49.

[Zero Division]

28. My best male friend is bisexual....

and another close friend I have is gay (well, he's overwhelmingly attracted to men, although he says he's technically bisexual). I met the one close gay friend through my best male friend who is bisexual, and I've met many other GLB people through both of them.

I've been good friends with my best male friend since before I knew he was bisexual. The day I found out, I wasn't too shocked and said, "Reall? That's interesting" or something along those lines. Being platonic friends with straight women, I didn't feel or see any reason why his being bisexual would make it a much different relationship as friends.

My age now is 24, at the time I found out about my best male friend I was 20 years old.

I feel completely comfortable discussing or making jokes about anything sexual with them, although that's mostly due to the fact that I know how comfortable they themselves are with the subject of sex. I wouldn't be so comfortable talking frankly about sexual matters with anyone, straight, gay, male, or female if I thought they were uncomfortable with the subject themselves.

Can't say anything about changing clothes, since I'm pretty damned uncomfortable changing clothes in front of anyone.

What is kind of uncomfortable is not knowing the reaction of other straight male acquaintances who may potentially become friends to the fact that some of my best friends are gay or bisexual males (pretty awkward thing to explain to my friend who's a devout Muslim, for example--yes, I can make a very odd set of acquaintances :D,).

[tsipple]

43. Answers from Chicago

How many close friends or semi-close friends/acquaintances do you have who are gay men?

At least one.

If you have close people in your life (and I'm referring only to platonic friends, NOT to your blood relatives or family!) who are gay males, what is your comfort level around them? For example, would you feel awkward changing clothes in front of them or showering in a locker room with them? Would you feel any sort of sexual tension or discomfort if, say, a gay male saw you naked?

I'm sure it's happened anyway (gay guys seeing me naked), so I suspect I wouldn't have a problem with that.

How openly do you discuss topics together, particularly about issues of sex or sexuality? Do you find it easy to make good-spirited and/or raunchy jokes with them?

Absolutely. He's interested in different mechanical parts, but there's much more in common than not.

Finally, what is your age? (or what is your basic age range, if you don't want to disclose your actual age)? I'm just curious how people's attitudes differ from one generation to another?

I'm 35 and feel like 22. And, yes, I do believe there is a generational gap. My parents are probably much more uptight about homosexuality than I am. I'm kind of libertarian on the issue: live and let live, guarantee basic civil rights, etc. I've heard a couple comments (from my mom, in particular) about how it's more "dangerous" to be homosexual, for example. To which I reply that we should all become lesbians, because they seem to have fewer STDs than anybody. (She doesn't have a good answer to that one. :-)) My cousins (same generation), brother, sister, etc. are all very accepting, possibly because we all know people who happen to be gay. In fact, some years ago my brother and I acted as matchmakers for friends of ours: one of his friends with one of mine. We persuaded them to meet each other at a restaurant, which they both appreciated I think, but they didn't hit it off and that was that.

[tsipple]

50. One More Story to Tell

I (briefly) dated a woman for about a month, and then she announced she was (is) a lesbian. I think her expectation was that that would be a deal breaker. Although I'd like to say it was because I'm accepting (which I am), a thousand different evil thoughts instantly went through my head, and the best I could say was, "That's COOL!" (Heavy emphasis on the COOL part. Which was the rough and obvious equivalent of saying, "Did I just hit the jackpot or what?!?!")

She ditched me anyway. I still like everybody regardless of sexuality. Some more than others. :evilgrin:

[5thGenDemocrat]

47. Not a topic I'd usually talk about one way or the other, but...

Of my closest acquaintances, two males and one female are definitely gay. I would guess (and I HATE to do so) that maybe another two are closeted. Changing clothes in front of any of them wouldn't bother me at all -- not only because I've been both a jock and a soldier and have been naked in front of other guys lots of times, but because I think I have a nice body -- and I hope other people (gay or straight) think so as well.
I've been hit on by gay men -- though I'm not really wired that way, I have ZERO problem with someone else finding me attractive. It's just a compliment, you know?
I can't say I discuss sex and sexuality with my gay (or straight) friends much, but then I was raised to believe that's a topic not usually broached in polite conversation. The jokes are fine -- I remember the first time I heard a gay friend of my second ex-wife's refer to us as "breeders," and I thought it was funny as hell.
I guess I'm just saying that sexuality is one (extremely complicated) facet of a person's personality and being. I'd no more consider not being friends with someone because of their orientation than I would because of their race, creed, color or national origin. We're all in this boat together and the trip is lamentably short. We may as well be fair and decent and supportive of one another.
My lesbian friend, G, who I met while trying to pick her up at the neighborhood bar, still introduces me to her straight female friends. She makes a swell pot roast and drives both a Harley Sportster AND the coolest Tootsie-Roll Pop purple Chevy Cavalier droptop ever made. We occasionally cruise around and check the gals out together.
John
I'm 47, by the way. I wear a 42 jacket, 31 waist, have all my hair and most of my teeth.

[tsipple]

52. Careful, There

I'm 47, by the way. I wear a 42 jacket, 31 waist, have all my hair and most of my teeth.

That's borderline metrosexual, isn't it? :-)

Speaking of which, isn't it nice that Democrats come in all shapes and sizes and yet it's so damn hard to find a boring one in the lot? Has anyone else noticed that?

[5thGenDemocrat]

53. Metrosexual

Sounds like a nightclub in Paris.
John
Like I said, sexuality is a complicated thing. I don't think there is any right way to express it -- only the right way for one's self. For what it's worth, two of my best friends are GOPers -- including the famous Andy the Right Wing Republican. I guess it takes all kinds, you know?

[IronLionZion]

48. I don't have any gay friends

but I don't have a problem with gay men unless they start slapping asses in the locker room or something.

[election_2004]

51. response

In my opinion, the ass-slapping isn't something that should be done to complete strangers; it's okay if it happens between close friends and congenial acquaintances in good fun.

What I'm wondering is how often platonic friends of heterosexual and homosexual persuasions feel comfortable engaging in such playful (non-advancing) interactions with one another?

Hmm, I wonder what coralrf and "Howard" would have to say about your locker room ass-slapping comment, given that it could be perceived (not that I think it actually is) as a stereotype?

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

72. why is it so hard for you to deal with the fact that some people

are curious about how the other half thinks? or in this case the other whatever % is straight? haven't you ever quizzed a female friend about what women think? how is this any different? if you want insight, asking for info seems like a good first step.


sheeeesh.

[TrogL]

58. gay's aren't the ones slapping asses in locker rooms

I've been in plenty of locker rooms with gay men (including last night). No ass slapping.

Straight(?) jocks are the ones doing the ass slapping. Never have understood it.

[Dr Fate]

55. I live in San Francisco- My girlfriend & I have a couple of gay friends...

...and I have some gay friends at school too...My Step-Brother is gay and also lives here, and all of his friends are really cool, super nice guys...

I dunno, I can honestly say I dont spend much time thinking about it one way or the other- you either have common interests, or you do not, no matter who you like to go to bed with...

The only thing that I do wonder about is gay-bashing Republicans- I never can figure out why they are so obsessed with, and spend so much time thinking about other people's life-styles and all those "dirty things they must be doing"...THAT to me is extremley bizzare as opposed the actual act of gay sex...

...Dont they have their OWN back-yards to clean up w/o peeking into people's bedrooms???


I would like to think that if the Rick Santorums of the world would just sit down and TALK to a couple of gay folks, it might change their minds. But I know that is just an optimistic dream- the Santorums of the world need that HATE to stay in power...


ON EDIT: I forgot to answer your questions:

NO- I am not uncomfortable in the least around Gays- I went to the Halloween bash in the Castro- and we all had a great time. I dont mind hugging a gay man or whatever- or a straight man either.

I'm 31 years old, I'd like to think I've been "over" any latent homophobia for years...

[Scott Lee]

57. My replies:

How many close friends or semi-close friends/acquaintances do you have who are gay men?

Several...quick count, about 20. Also, my music writing partner is a gay man and probably my closest friend.

If you have close people in your life (and I'm referring only to platonic friends, NOT to your blood relatives or family!) who are gay males, what is your comfort level around them? For example, would you feel awkward changing clothes in front of them or showering in a locker room with them? Would you feel any sort of sexual tension or discomfort if, say, a gay male saw you naked?

LOL, hell no. We've even been known to grab each other in public just for shits and giggles of our other friends.

How openly do you discuss topics together, particularly about issues of sex or sexuality? Do you find it easy to make good-spirited and/or raunchy jokes with them?

You bet. That type of information is discussed most openly with my gay male and female friends. It's the LEAST comfortable, or nonforthcoming, from my straight male friends.

Finally, what is your age?

43.

[TrogL]

60. Bisexual man here

I don't understand how people seem to be unable to control themselves in public. I'm perfectly comfortable changing clothes around anyone or having anyone change clothes around me. But then again, I'm a nudist.

Certainly, I'll sneak a peek - I don't know how any one could help it and would expect anyone else to peek as well.

There's a Hooters in the local mall. Outside Hooters the mall is fairly dark and there's a black lamppost right out front. I cannot count the number of times I'm seen some man staring into Hooters walk smack-dab right into the lamp post. I just don't get it.

I don't do sex jokes. I consider them sad. However, I enjoy sexual word play for play's sake - mostly bad puns.

I'm pushing 50.

[bearfartinthewoods]

62. many friends

i guess a dozen i would consider good friends.

i'm a naturisst so i don't really have many naked issues, period.

i have shared a sleeping bag with a gay man without a second thought but of course it was so damn cold i would have shared with a bear if he'd have let me.

there have been times, in new friendships when there have been sexual tensions but it fades with familiarity. we talk openly but sex is no more an issue than it is with hetros. well maybe slightly because of political issues.

there is one friend that i'm sure would want sex with me and he does tease me almost to the point of being a pest but it really doesn't make me anymore uncomfortable than the same situation with one of my woman friends.

i'm 55 and i've been friends with the same guys for 20-30 years and the situation hasn't really changed that much over time.

i missed on of your questions.

as far as the raunchy jokes.
first, let me say i enjoy these men because they are outstanding people. their sexuality is irrelevent. they are interesting people who do interesting things. if we are alone together, i perceive no issues of gayness. in groups the behavior does change and i can feel out of it. the jokes get to me just about the same as if i were with a group of raunchy women...it gets wearing.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

78. LOL he-bear!

Oft times we lock horns on political issues but the more I read you, the more I like you.

[yella_dawg]

63. College roommate

was gay, didn't come out until we'd graduated. We're still as close as living half the contenent apart will let us. He's still a little uncomfortable being open, (after 10 years?) although that changed some after I met his first boyfriend. I guess that broke some kind of ice.

Close friend who is bi, and who is married to a bi woman. Makes for some really interesting Saturday night conversations.

Another close friend who is "flaming". After a while, I realized that he was just a friend, that his shocking behavior wasn't even noticable any more. He's older, and he's more mentor than confidant. Hard to say how open we are, simply because he's so outrageous, he could be hiding lots and you'd never know.

Played in a band with a guy who kept making passes and wouldn't take no for an answer. Made me very nervous, finally he caught on that I was actively avoiding him, and wandered off.

I'm forties. Raised in West Texas Redneck small town.

[HEyHEY]

66. I'm 24 and have a few gay buddies

4 to be exact.
I don't feel comfortable being naked in front of anyone I'm not sleeping with man or woman.

We discuss topics very openly and the comfort level is the same as it is around anyone.

But I have been very exposed to gay men. When I was 20 my good buddy I met at french immersion was gay. for the last three weeks there was only 8 of us in a building meant for 300 people. He seemed to know every gay guy in town and there was always tons of gay men around me. So I am pretty comfortable with it.

[DoNotRefill]

68. I used to have a lot of gay friends....

back when I was doing the Rocky Horror Picture Show every weekend. I'm 35. I was always very comfortable around them, and had no problem changing clothes in front of them, at least down to my underwear. Of course, I never really enjoyed getting completely naked around my friends, regardless of their sexual orientation.

We'd get drunk around each other all the time, and trusted each other not to take advantage of the situation. We'd also go "clubbing" after the shows to after-hours clubs. Never had a problem with it, even in almost exculsively gay clubs. I'd get hit on sometimes by people not in the group, and they'd let people know I was straight, and not to mess with me because of it.

I've lost contact with them now...but sometimes I still miss them.

[ComerPerro]

73. Well

I am 22. I have a few gay friends.

My comfort level around them is fine. I don't feel any sexual tension, and I don't feel akward. I dobut too many gay men would be attracted to me anyway. (Even if they were, they would have to get past all of the attractive women who are literally beating down my door, waiting to jump me <sarcasm, sadly> ). Actually, one of the oddest things about homophobia is that people are concerned that every gay man in the world is going to try to sleep with them. But, in truth, I am guessing that none of them are attractied to some of these idiots, seeing as no women seem to be.

As far as discussing topics on sex or sexuality, well...
How should I put this...

I am of the opinion that no matter the person or the situation, there is always time for a well-placed raunchy joke...

;)

[youngred]

74. I'm a 20 year old straight guy

I can count among my close male friends 4 gay men. Among my acquaintances many more.

I'm prefectly comfortable around them and wouldn't consider them to be any different than my female friends or male straight friends. I wouldn't feel awkward changing in front of them (and have been in my underwear while changing around them often. Only people I sleep with see me naked so that's not really an issue. Me in a locker room is a joke, and I feel uncomfortable with showering in locker rooms in general whether or not the people around me are gay or straight. If they saw me naked I wouldn't feel any sexual tension I don't think.

I talk with them as much and on the same topics as my other friends. We've talked about sex (hey I'm 20 what do you expect) and sexuality in serious and not-so-serious ways. I joke and tease them about being gay, but I joke and tease all my friends about whatever distinguishing characteristics they have. Never in a mean spirited way and if they asked me to refrain I would.

Gays and lesbians are people, no different than anyone else. Why should there be tension?

On the topic of being hit on (since others have addressed it). I have been hit on by gay males often in the past (friends of mine I've known for years thought that I was gay for a long time and never knew). I always say thanks, but no thanks. I'm flattered when it happens, but its not for me. Usually I ask if we can still be friends and they usually say yes :-)

[election_2004]

83. You're the kind of friend who gay guys wish for...

Not trying to speak for the entire gay male population, but I regularly find myself longing for that type of relationship (which you've described) with hetero dudes...and I'm very uptight wondering if other guys will be uncomfortable around me.

But since you're a heterosexual, I can tell you this much (to hopefully reassure you) about showering in the locker room: just remember that you have nothing to be ashamed about - - and anyone who has a problem with you is a loser.

[youngred]

85. Why thank you

:-)

I have several friends who are like me. I would let your personality shine through. If they're nervous about it but open you can talk to them and show them that being gay doesn't mean you're out to get them. If they're hostile, you don't really want them as friends anyway...why live the lie. and if they're like myself or many others here they probably don't care and would be happy that you felt comfortable enough to share.

I've not got a bad body, I just don't like the gym so I'm rarely in the shower room to begin with. I'm proud of my looks and body the way it is and if anyone doesn't like it or finds it ugly...eh that's their loss.

Hey look giving and getting the same advice :-)

[Character Assassin]

79. My housemate is gay.

One of them, anyway.

It's never been an issue.

[DemVet]

81. None.

No contact with any gay men, at least that I know of. It's never an issue. Should it be? I like to look at all people as human beings, not sex objects. If I would know someone was gay, it would have no bearing how I treat or act toward them. They are who they are. :)

[Fall_No_Further]

84. My info.

I have had several friends in my life who have either been admittedly gay for some time or were just coming out of the closet. My general policy has been I feel no more uncomfortable changing around them than I do around anyone--which basically means, if you're not my wife, I'm not doing it. Modest guy, what can I say. Age range, you can put me in that 18-25 demographic.

Here's something odd that I've noticed: that habit of calling things "gay" when you're commenting on their unwelcomeness or lameness. I do it from time to time--and the second I do, I catch myself saying it, and think to myself, "that's got to be the dumbest damn thing to say right then. It makes all of no sense." It's absolutely amazing some of the verbal habits we get into when we're exposed to them enough in our developing years, even if they don't actually express beliefs we hold. Ever since I've noticed that I do that, and how ridiculous it is, I've been making a concerted effort to really clear my expressions up, make them a little more...rational, y'know? But sweet jesus, damned if there aren't a thousand and one stupid little things that you can just get so accustomed to it's like they're not around, but once you open your eyes you realize how assinine they are.

I wonder if that made any sense. Hope that wasn't offensive. Wasn't intended to be. Peace.

[youngred]

86. I've sort of noticed that too about the use of Gay

and I have managed to cut it from my vocabulary altogether when used in that fashion. a few of my friends use the word in that manner, including many of my gay friends, even though I know them to be completely unbiased towards gay people. I think that though the origin was derrogatory it has changed when used in that context.

Remembering that origin I refuse to use it (why there are so many other and more eloquent ways to express displeasure or oddity)in that context