Cars? What would you buy?

[nashbridges]

We have to buy a new car, and we have to live through a Northeast winter. I'm pushing for an all wheel drive SOMETHING. At the very least, front wheel drive.

But we're also broke. American car companies are offering competitive deals, but I personally don't like any of their cars. The japanese companies have great cars, but they're expensive. Any German cars, while great, are way beyond our price range.

Suggestions, people? We have a 15 year old For F-150 that has treated us well, but it's too expensive to repair. I need suggestions about where to go next. Prius is on the table, but it has to be the ugliest car in recent history, and my wife is balking on buying one.

So I come to you to find another useful car we can get for $28K or less.

[JanMichael]

1. Subaru Outback or Forrester

We have a '98 Outback, with 106,000 miles on it; and so far it's been reliable-

I have done the timing belt, the regular maitenence, and the front whachmadoodles that the wheels are attached to.

We paid 7,000 cash for it-

I had it out in 18 inches of fresh snow by myself (this is Stephanie) and had a blast!

Steph

[BrklynLiberal]

3. That is exactly what I was going to suggest. I love the Outback.

[rawtribe]

5. Agree..

A well maintained Subaru will take you into the 100Ks. It's very safe car in the snow.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. 146,000 and counting.

Now if they would hurry up with the hybrid technology (and they should as they are now partly owned by Toyota) I could probably hold out with my outback until they are ready.

[screembloodymurder]

15. I bought an Outback because of Subaru's reputation for reliability

and I've been disappointed. Oil leaks. Transmission problems. Never again.

[kwassa]

30. I've heard very mixed things about Subaru quality

some have had great success, others nothing but problems

Same with VWs.

[JanMichael]

31. Subarus leak oil like nothing I have ever seen;

The above poster was correct on that score. However, I have learned one thing from our going on three years of Subie ownership....newer cars freaking leak. And blow head gaskets after several years. I thought Subarus were the worst...right up until some guy at work was telling me about all his cars having head gasket issues...and they are all hondas.

I think cars these days are just going to be pains in the ass--

That said, our Outback has NEVER left us on the side of the road. But the 700 dollar rear main seal hurt. It only hurt after 100,000 miles though--

Stephanie

[kwassa]

32. actually, new car quality has gone way up, not down

I've only blown head gaskets on old junkers.

[JanMichael]

33. I drove a four cylinder Nissan (1987) for 200,000 miles with the original

clutch on it when I gave it away...

That was my car for 20 years---and now, all these new bells and whistles are getting on my nerves.

I miss windows that roll up and down manually; I despise power steering--automatic transmissions are nice...right to the point where they fail. I don't know....I just want an old car with a carburator, and a typewriter. I want a phone that you have to dial.

I miss the sixties and seventies....in terms of "gadgets." I miss three channels and rabbit ears, and TV's that were fixable by smacking them hard.

Stephanie

[kwassa]

34. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be

My old '65 Mustang has so much empty space in the engine compartment that I could stand on either side of the engine. It cost $10 to fix anything that broke.

That said, I like all the computerized gadgets on my new car, high-speed cable at home, and ever-better computers. I don't have much nostalgia for what was.

I would like to have a modern salary, with the old cost-of-living, though.

[seaglass]

35. I just got rid of my 4 cyl, standard Nissan - only 11 yrs old. And

I just leased a 4 cyl Nissan Automatic trans (which I did for my daughter, I've never had an automatic).

I like some bells and whistles but I'm not happy about the automatic part at all. I feel like I should be overjoyed because I have a brand new car but...

I miss my old car:-(

Luckily it's only a 2 year lease.

[purr]

2. My mom is in the market and was looking at

GMC Envoys.. they just got a bunch in today 2005's with all less than 5000 miles, totally loaded, 3 rows of seats for under 29k. She also got a chevy dealer down on a 05 tahoe from 50k - 37k.

I LOVE my jeep liberty.. LOVE IT!

[caty]

4. You said that the vehicle you

have now is too expensive to fix---but, is it more expensive to fix than it would be to make payments (+interest) on a new one?

[MADem]

6. I would buy a used car, for now

VERY USED, but not abused. Go down to the Cape, or some other geezer haven, and buy a lightly used Toyota or Ford Escort (those have front wheel drive) that some old folk have driven to the grocery, the doc, the bridge club, and whatnot. Do not spend a lot of money, but get something that is affordable to repair should you encounter problems. Go for practical, plain, simple, and good gas mileage. Plan on driving that sucker for two or three years, while you sock away a couple of hundred a month on what would have been your car payment plus insurance premiums. That way, you have a nice down when you do decide to buy new.

The worst time to buy is when you HAVE TO. Get yourselves a decent clunker, not pretty but reliable and cheap to fix, and then start doing your research.

JMO, your mileage may vary!!!!!

[SmokingJacket]

7. If you're really broke, don't get a new car.

A car payment is a horrible burden. I (perpetually broke) have a ten-year-old volvo station wagon, which I bought to replace my 17 yr old volvo. They're cheep, never break down, and best of all: no monthly payment hanging around the neck.

I live in hilly snow country, and found that a volvo with STUDS drives fine. But it must have studs, or forget it.

[Union Thug]

13. My volvo 740 wagon ran and ran and ran and ran

It was an 86 and aside from a timing belt and exhaust, I did NOTHING but drive it and change the oil for four years. AWESOME car.

Now, I have a POS KIA Rio, that is my commuter.. and the money pit.. 62 Austin Healey...currently in for about 2K in repairs.. oh yeah!

[LeftyMom]

Get a Subaru

Up in the moutains here where it snows a lot they make up a huge percentage of the cars on the road for good reason. They're safe and reliable too, my boss drives a Outback and puts just an incredible amont of milage on it without trouble.

[bif]

8. Saturn. I love mine.

Although I might go for a Veau. You'd get a great deal on a couple year old L200. Incredible car.

[DS1]

9. In Vermont, the largest % of cars you'll see on the road are either

truly 4x4 pickups, or Subarus. SUVs just aren't popular, too heavy for the snow.

[henslee]

10. Buy an old cop car. A Ford or Chevy. Find one that's not beat up,

Crown Vic. Caprice. You can defintely get a nice one pretty cheap as long as you factor in the fact you may need a new transmission in twenty thousand miles. I bet eight grand gets you a fine one. Find one that a cop took home every day or one with a highway miles. Cop suspension. Heavy duty hoses. These cars are awesome and tough and fun as heck to drive. And they get good mileage. About twenty two to the gallon. And if something happens to it, who cares?

[GaYellowDawg]

12. 2005 Toyota Camry.

Yes, it's one year old. Let someone else pay the depreciation.
From autos.yahoo.com:

Camry Standard:
Invoice Price:$16,645
MSRP:$18,195
Gas Mileage:24/33
Horsepower: 160@5700rpm

In case you want more horsepower:

Camry LE V6
Invoice Price:$20,051
MSRP:$22,530
Gas Mileage:20/28
Horsepower: 210@5800rpm

On edit: I have a 1990 V6 Camry - I get about 20/29 mileage and it has a little over 255,000 miles. It rarely needs anything more than routine maintenance. Yeah, it's a grad school car. When I graduate next year and start getting real paychecks, I'm going to have someone to a bumper-to-bumper inspection and see if I can simply do some body work and get a paint job and keep it going. Might as well not spend the money on another car until I have to.

[ronzo]

18. Yep. Camry might be a good call.

I have a late 90s 4cyl. Great MPG, FWD, roomy, dependable. I'm gonna run the wheels off mine too.

[parasim]

14. Look into the Subaru Forrester

I've got a '98 Forrester with 150K+ miles and still going strong. It is great for winter driving. I go camping a lot and it has been just perfect for that. It's excellent in snow with the all-wheel-drive. Large windows for great visibility. Rated highly in Consumer Reports. Decent gas mileage. Very comfortable.

[peacefreak]

26. I just bought a second hand one

& am falling in love with it.

[bif]

16. Buy American

Even if it's used. I feel strongly about this for various reasons.

[Orsino]

29. If there were an American hybrid sedan...

...I would definitely have gone with it instead of the Prius and hybrid Accord I got this year. Our economy is in for a serious wallop, but I have no use for a hybrid Escape.

America just wasn't ready when I was.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

17. Buy two old cars

Don't spend much over $3,000 on each. If one is in the shop, you'll have the other. Or if you are bold, you can get the shop manual and try to do as many repairs and maintenance as possible yourself. In these times, I would go for an old Volkswagen bug (an 'oldie') and maybe a Mercedes 300TD. A Mercedes diesel station wagon circa 1982 with under 200,000 miles should give you plenty of continued use. My cousin has one with nearly 400,000 miles on it without a major overhaul. He paid $2500 for the 300TD about 2 years ago and it was in extremely good condition. The Volkswagon bug, while not an exciting car, is going to be durable, easy to resell if you get tired of it, and fairly cheap to keep on the road. I would go for two old cars and avoid having to get a loan but pay cash instead. You end up spending a lot more on the car when you buy it new and pay off the interest. And you also lose a lot of value when you drive the car off the lot. And the insurance costs on two old cars are probably going to be less than on one new $28,000 vehicle off the lot.

And if I were you I would probably also consider having the F-150 repaired. I doubt it will cost $28,000 to get it into fine mechanical and cosmetic condition.

[jmowreader]

19. Never, never, never buy a VW Bug...

unless you're willing and able to work on a car, you have another car and you have a LOT of tools.

I owned a Bug for a lot of years. I traded mine in on an Accord. I want another Bug.

But I'll tell you right now, the things are so fucking old right now, they're definitely a high-maintenance proposition.

But for S&G, let's pretend you found a semi-decent-looking Bug for $1000. Here's what you want to look for to see if it really is a decent Bug:

1. Crawl under the car and look at the floorpans. You're looking for huge holes in them. If you don't see any, that means they were probably replaced. Normally, the first pan to get holes in it is the right-rear pan, which is where the battery sits.

2. Look at the brake backing plates. At the bottom of each plate are two holes. What you're looking for here are the condition of the holes themselves. (Huh?) These holes are how you adjust your brakes, and on a really old Bug these holes can be torn to shit, which makes adjusting the brakes hard to do. Added bonus: no one sells replacement plates.

3. While you're under there, look at the brake shoes. You need to see more than about 1/16" of lining on the shoes. This will get you around until you have time to do a good brake job.

4. Get a compression tester and make sure you have AT LEAST 90psi in all four cylinders, and that you don't have more than about 5psi difference between the best and the worst cylinder.

5. Check the CV boots to make sure they're not torn up.

6. Make sure the car cranks well.

Once you get the car home, you need to start putting parts in it. Remember, this is a very old car.

Start by doing a brake job. A brake job on a Bug is easy and fun to accomplish. I'll do a follow-up post on this work and on the other jobs in this post.

Then put new shocks and new polyurethane front end bushings in it.

Next, drop the engine and do my Quickie Overhaul.

Remove the seats, the windows, the dash if it's a Super Beetle, and the gas tank. Fix all the rust and dings. Then have the thing towed or rollbacked to Earl Scheib and get one of their good-quality paint jobs. Get the car back home and put it back together with new window rubber, a new interior and a new engine seal, and have fun with your nice fresh-feeling Bug.

[CanuckAmok]

20. Used Toyota truck.

I've had many. They are bulletproof, and they hold their value.

You will never, ever be let down by one.

I suggest you find a used 96-2001 4Runner with the optional electric locking differential. That little button is the single best device ever in avoiding getting stuck/extricating from being stuck.

What it does is "lock" the rear wheels together, so they both spin at the same time. Most cars only deliver power to one wheel. That's better for routine driving, bit slippery/unstable road conditions/steep grades are far more manageable with power going to two wheels.

They ride like a car, have room for 5 adults, and lots of cargo space.

Smooth independent front suspension and simple progressive coil springs all 'round.

Lots of aftermarket support, from wheels to roofracks.

V6 or optional 4-cyl (up to '98 IIRC). Don't think of it as an SUV; think of it as a station wagon.

Buy it from a Toyota dealer and get the optional warranty; it's very comprehensive.

You should be able to find a good one for under $12K.

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. Absolutely do not buy new

That's just a waste of money. Buy a year old, or even more.

And consider this: you say that you can't afford to fix your Ford F-150, but yet you are willing to pay up to 28K for a new car - this means that you can, in fact, afford to fix your F-150.

now, you might think, "But the resale value of a F-150 isn't worth fixing", to which I say, "But the resale value of a new car is even more not worth it".

If you spend even $10 K on fixing the truck, you are well ahead of the game.

That F-150 will give you a million miles or more, so long as you take care of it. That's one of the most durable, workhorse, unstoppable american made anything.

[nashbridges]

22. It's a great truck

Indeed, but it's at 300,000 miles right now, the transmission is wrecked, and the body may or may not make it through another winter.

I'm not looking to buy new, I'm just looking for another car to get me through a decade or so. All of our cars are paid off now, so the 28K figure was based on what we can make a monthly payment on without too much hurt.

Subaru is sounding pretty good. I'll go look at those.

It's going to hurt to put the truck down, but it has served us well. Like all things, it's dying an uncomfortable death.

[Maddy McCall]

23. I love the Subaru Forester.

Gets great gas mileage. It's a smallish SUV.

[Cornjob]

24. Buy a low-mileage used Taurus!

With good all-season tires they are great on the snow and they are cheap to maintain.

They also have excellent crash test ratings, plenty of passenger room and trunk space.

Try to find one with the 24-valve engine. Mine gets around 34mpg on the highway and 26-27mpg in mixed driving.

I have owned several of them since my first one in '86.

I have also owned Subaru Legacy's, Honda Accords, Accura Integras, and even a Jaguar. Nothing beats the Taurus for overall value.

[In_The_Wind]

25. I love my F-150 until I pull up to the gas pump.

http://www51.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/Dispatch.jsp?.CurrentState=HomePageFlash My house mate loves his Explorer Sport Trac.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

27. I second that

I love my '02 Trac!

Melonhawg

Proud Members of Melonhawg Society

[Orsino]

28. The Civic Hybrid

http://automobiles.honda.com/

Mileage in the high forties, low emissions (AT-PZEV), starting at $22k.

I used to think that the Prius was butt-ugly, too, but as an owner, I no longer remember why. I think they look cool--and I'm very happy with mine.