Oh gawd my kid just totaled my car

[proud2BlibKansan]

He's drunk. Took my car out in the middle of the night. Called and woke me up at 2:45 in the morning.

He's at the police station now. They said they would release him in an hour or two. My husband said he won't go pick him up. I have no car so I can't get him either.

At least the kid's not hurt. That way we get to hurt him, eh?

[billyskank]

1. Aren't kids great?

If you don't kick his ass for stealing your car, you should definitely kick his ass for driving it drunk.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. We have kicked his ass so many times

It doesn't seem to be having an effect. :shrug:

[Mutley]

30. See if you can press some sort of charges on him.

Nothing that would get him locked up for years or anything, but a few weeks or even months might be enough to set him straight. Is he a minor?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. That is what I am thinking too

No he is not a minor. Just turned 27.

[Mutley]

35. Has he ever been arrested before?

I don't know if you could press charges on him for anything besides theft, which could get him a lot more than just a few months in jail, especially if he already has a record.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Yes

several times. Nothing major but enough to teach us not to go bail him out anymore.

[Mutley]

45. I guess all you can do, then is don't bail him out.

Still hold him responsible for the damage. He'll have to get a job to pay it. This sucks! I'm so sorry!

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Thanks for the nice words.

Kid has been out of work for over a year. It's way past time to go back to work.

[entanglement]

2. Sorry for you

When your child gets back give him / her plenty of these

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Hubby says he ain't coming back

I have a feeling it will be awhile before I see the kid.

[GreenPartyVoter]

72. I am so sorry *hugs and prayers* I hope your kid straightens up and

flies right after this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. Me too

It's been a rough couple of years for him. And for us.

[KitchenWitch]

3. Ouch

Make him pay your insurance deductible to replace the car. Allow him to suffer any and all legal consequences of his poor decision making.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. He doesn't have any money

Unemployed. Just had a job interview yesterday. Damn it looked like he was going to get the job too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Oh shit I will have to pay a deductible??

I guess I need to talk to my insurance company.

So if he took the car without my permission, I still have to pay the deductible?

[KitchenWitch]

10. I believe so

But I am not an insurance professional, so don't quote me on that.

You can, as a "crime victim" request that the court get a judgement on him to pay restitution as part of his sentence for DUI.

[Maddy McCall]

12. Even if he's a minor?

If he's a minor, he's probably listed on her insurance. If he's NOT listed on her insurance, it's possible that insurance won't pay one cent, unless she files theft charges on him.

I'm not an insurance pro, either, though.

[KitchenWitch]

14. Not sure about the minor child thing either

I would think, that unless he carried his own insurance, that she would be on the hook for the deductible. (Because insurance companies are evil.)

[Maddy McCall]

16. They ARE evil.

The sad thing is that her insurance is going to skyrocket after this. Again, I can speak with experience on this topic, having been married to an alcoholic who got three DUIs while I was with him, and who recently served "hard" time for his eighth DUI.

I guess the good thing is that the kid didn't kill anyone, or himself, in the wreck. I hope that he learns something in the Alcohol Education program to which the next 12 weeks of his life will be devoted, if laws in that state are anything like laws in Texas.

Damn. It's just a sad situation for everyone involved. :(

[KitchenWitch]

20. YIKES

Had no idea you had been through that. Alcoholism is a terrible thing.

I know someone who had been in recovery for 19 years, and decided to go out drinking, he ended up deliberately running his car into a squad car. His life for at least the next 10 years is SHIT.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Funny thing - friend of ours just went to prison Monday

We all went to a going away party for him Sunday. He got popped on a DUI and was holding other 'substances'. He had a record and is in for at least a year, maybe longer. Lawyer is still trying to negotiate a lesser sentence. We grew up with this guy. Nice guy, talented, but a fuck up.

Hubby just a few minutes ago wondered if kid would see the friend in county jail.

[friesianrider]

107. How nice...

A "going away" party before someone who has a record, was holding other drugs, and was driving drunk heads to jail. Real nice.

What would he have gotten if he'd killed someone while on his fun little drunk driving party? A new car?

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. How nice it must be to be

perfect. The best part is you have no peers. :)

I see nothing wrong with a family who is about to lose a loved one to prison and chooses to say goodbye and invites friends to join them. Does that mean they approve of the loved one's criminal activities? I certainly don't think so but then I am not perfect.

[friesianrider]

110. "losing a loved one to prison?"

Another irresponsible jerk who drove drunk and had drugs on him...and his poor family is "losing him ro prison?" How about losing an actual INNOCENT person to a drunk driver?

My God...no wonder your child drunk driving and stealing and totaling your car doesn't even register.

[Tallison]

112. Where did she compare

much less equate, losing someone to prison with losing someone to a drunk driving accident? In what way does her son's screw up appear to fail to register with her? I'm just not getting your points. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Yes, incarceration is a loss.

Innocent loved ones are punished. Until you have walked in their shoes, you can't know the agony they feel. Our friend's family needs our support, not derision or humiliation. That is why we are there to help see them through this. I am sorry you don't understand this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I was thinking about changing insurance companies

I have State Farm and am pissed at how they are handling the hurricane victims claims. A young kid we know has just opened his own agency. At least I know who to call if State Farm cancels us.

[Maddy McCall]

28. Since your son is an adult, your insurance might not be affected too much

by the DUI, because you won't want to add him to your insurance. He will have to file a form with his insurance company before he will get his license back. IF this is his first DUI, he's going to lose his license for a minimum of 90 days.

As with anytime you file a claim, your insurance will go up simply because you file a claim on the totalled car. Perhaps the kid who opened his own agency will be able to help you on this.

At any rate, I wouldn't let my son drive my car ever again. :(

[jmowreader]

76. She didn't "let" him drive the car in the first place

The kid stole it and totaled it.

It's fucked up that the insurance company is going to penalize HER for the actions of a car thief, but that's what happens.

I think three-to-five would straighten this young man out.

[northzax]

124. insurance doesn't travel with a person

rather with the vehicle. Even though I carry auto insurance, if I wreck a friend's car, it goes on their insurance, since I had access to the car (unless they want to claim I stole it, and in a family situation, the burden of proof is really on the auto owner there.) one theft won't really affect your insurance too much, unless they determine you were negligent in protecting the property.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. You know I guess I don't mind paying the deductible

If that means insurance will pay, that is better than nothing I guess.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. He's not a minor

Cops said the worst they could charge him with is criminal deprivation of property. They also said they thought the insurance company would pay as long as we are in good standing with them - whatever that means. I guess we are - haven't filed a claim in a long time. Never totaled a car before.

[Maddy McCall]

11. Is he a minor?

If so, yes. If he's an adult, then his insurance should pay for your dar's damage. If he doesn't have insurance or is listed on your policy, it's your responsibility to pay the deductible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Not a minor

Not listed on my policy. I don't let him drive my car - usually. He definitely did not have my permission to drive it tonight.

[KitchenWitch]

22. Have the court order restitution as part of his sentence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Can I do that?

It's a great idea. Thanks.

[KitchenWitch]

26. I don't see why not

Speak to the county attorney about it, you are out money as a direct result of his actions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Last time we dealt with courts, etc and this kid

we asked that the judge order him to get a job. Prosecutor laughed.

[KitchenWitch]

34. Well, since you will incur costs, any prosecutor worth his salt will

add restitution. If not, there is always small claims court. You may not get your money, but he will have a judgement on his financial record.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Oh great

Then his credit will be fucked and he will NEVER get a job, since so many places run credit checks these days.

[KitchenWitch]

41. That is why I suggested restitiution

I do not believe restitution through criminal court goes on the credit rating.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Good advice

I will definitely ask about the credit rating before I make a decision.

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. You'll have to press charges for grand theft auto

Otherwise, you're on the hook.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. Talked to insurance company today

They are going to cover everything. Car is totaled.

My rates will either go way up or we will be canceled.

[SoCalDem]

93. Your insurance may not pay anything, and they might even cancel you..

My sister wrecked my Mother's car when she was 16, and did not have her license.. The insurance paid nothing..

I feel your pain.. My "bad boy" put us through the wringer.. It seems as if you will not survive it, but eventually (with some luck) you will :hug:

[northzax]

121. if he took your car without permission

then he stole it, and is not covered by your insurance. Your options are pressing charges for theft, and paying your theft deductible, or eating the repair deductible, you're paying the same either way. sorry. If he lives in your house, and isn't listed on the insurance, then your policy probably doesn't cover him at all, and you're out a car. double sorry.

and maybe this will scare him straight? (god that phrase is awful, isn't it?)

[barb162]

122. he might be an automatic permissive user as he is part

of your household. Also was it collision or comprehensive? Do you have your auto policy handy? Did he crash into something or drive it into a lake or what?

[Maddy McCall]

9. I thoroughly agree.

[Maddy McCall]

6. Serious?

Oh, man, I'm so sorry.

How old is he? Might be the time to get him some help.

Is he going to be charged with DUI?

My best wishes to your family. It's a difficult thing to go through, I can tell you, from my own family's experience.

:hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Hey Maddy!

I am sure this pales in comparison to what you have been through lately. How are you?

He is 27. Old enough to know better.

Yes, they charged him with DUI and I think also leaving the scene of an accident. Dumbshit took a cab home. Cops were waiting for him when he got here.

They took him to the police station about 5 miles from our house. They said you can come pick him up there in an hour or two. Hubby said 'and if we don't pick him up?' Cops said we will take him out to Gardner. That's the county jail. It is 30+ miles from here. Hubby said 'what if we don't pick him up there either?' Cop laughed and said they don't have enough to hold him for more than a few hours.

Hubby said he won't let him come home. Oh man he is so pissed. He is sick and didn't enjoy getting out of bed at 3am to deal with this crap.

Other son is 22. Great kid. Totally opposite. He is getting ready to go spend 10 days in Europe with his girlfriend, who is a Rhodes scholar. We are worried he won't come back home. That is all we have talked about lately - what do we say when he calls and tells us he is staying in England with his girlfriend?

I guess we will have an empty nest here pretty soon. Does that mean I can finally clean my house and it will stay clean?

I am rambling. Must be shock. Oh gawd I have to be at work in two hours.

[Maddy McCall]

24. Sweetie, I am so sorry about this situation.

Like I said in the post above, I have been through this with someone I loved. His parents bailed him out of every bit of trouble he ever got in, so he never paid the consequences and never learned to refrain from his self-destructive behavior.

It took him getting his third DUI in less than two years, at the age of 40, to finally wake him up. Thank god I was out of the picture by that time--I had divorced him and moved back to Mississippi long before this happened. Anyway, Texas has a third-DUI felony law--if you get three DUIs in less than five years, you go to the pen for two years. And that's what happened to him. His parents couldn't bail him out of a felony with a mandatory prison sentence.

There is something to be said for tough love. Let him work his way out of this. He won't learn anything if you and his father provide a safety net everytime he screws up.

About your younger son, that's fabulous. Sounds like a great kid. Whatever he decides to do, he will be fine.

I am sorry if I am lecturing you. Sometimes knowing the experiences of others has helped me.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. You know I don't mind your lectures.

We have been through so much with this kid. I am hoping this is the last straw with him. He is really a great kid. My DU friends all know him. He comes to all our meetups.

He just keeps screwing up. Adulthood doesn't seem to agree with him. I didn't think he had a drinking problem. He has one other DUI but that was a long time ago - 5 years I think. We can't remember the last time we saw him drinking. And he lives with us. I would think we would know if he was an alcoholic.

Without going into details, let's just say yes, we have a family history too and I am sure we could tell if the kid had a drinking problem.

I am so thankful I had two kids. If my oldest was my only, I would feel like the world's worst parent. That is the only way I have been able to cope with this kid and his troubled life.

[Maddy McCall]

38. If this is his second DUI, he will probably be ordered to undergo...

counseling or evaluation for alcoholism. I don't know your state laws, but in Texas, that's mandatory on the second.

Like I said, my ex got a couple of DUIs before we met, several when I was with him, and then, after Texas' laws got so strict on DUI, three in a row in less than five years, after me. Nothing anyone could do or say would help him. Texas laws took care of him.

I hope your son can get some counseling. :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. He really needs counseling

He wasn't so bad until about age 21. Then he just fell apart. We have taken him to see a counselor but it had no effect. Since he is no longer on our health insurance, we have struggled to figure out how to help him. And he is an adult; we can't force him to get help. Maybe the court can, though.

[Maddy McCall]

46. Will send good thoughts up for your family.

:hug: :pals:

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Thanks Maddy

:hug:

[Omphaloskepsis]

29. After seeing his age..

The kid is a fuck (sorry). I'm the same age. I have done the same shit sans car. Really if he has anything take it right now to pay the deductible. Computer, xBox, grab it all. That is just total shit for someone his age to pull off. I thought he was 14. Nail some balls to the wall.

[Maddy McCall]

42. That was an unnecessarily nasty thing to say.

Calling someone's kid a "fuck" doesn't help, does it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. That's okay

He did screw up.

And I know it isn't my fault. Like I said, I do have one kid who isn't a fuck.

[Omphaloskepsis]

58. Driving drunk at 27?? WTF??

That is fucked. It is a fucked thing to do. And, as a kid of the same age it does not reflect on the parenting. It simply says the kid is a fuck. Honestly, someone could have died. Luckily that didn't happen. The kid is still a fuck. He could have hit my kid.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Omphaloskepsis]

64. Do I need to be helpful?

In my first reply I said I don't know what I would do.

I learned that the kid was 27.. I don't feel bad if a 27 year old kid sits in jail for driving drunk. I'm on the road too. I'm glad the kid has a place to sober up. And I'm an alcoholic and a asshole. But I don't drive. I would hate to hit your kid , mother, dad, sister.. The drunk guy that hits mine is a fuck.

[Caoimhe]

105. I wish he could talk to my cousin

Who was hit by a drunk driver at age 18 and has been in a wheelchair for almost 30 years now. The person who hit him was extremely wasted, beer cans rolling out of his car, but the officer at the scene didn't process things correctly and the kid (he was in his early 20s) got off scott free.

My cousin went through the windshield, thrown far from the truck and was technically dead, but his passenger and him had just taken a CPR/First Aid class and were on their way home from it. The passenger crawled out to find him, then performed CPR and saved his life! Thank GOD for him!

Be thankful that this hasn't happened yet with your son, and I wish you luck in straightening the little prick out before he really hurts someone!

[Omphaloskepsis]

13. Holy crap..

I don't even know how to start with something like that. I just can't think of a single thing to do that would make things better. Good luck..:hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Thanks

This could be the rude awakening his dad has been saying he needs.

[Omphaloskepsis]

49. Sorry to pile more stuff on...

I'm the guy that provides hosting for your sig.. It is going to need to change in a few weeks. I need that sub-domain so everything inside of it will be destroyed.

The image is now at:


Sorry for the inconvenience.

Good luck with the kid.. Dictionary definition of clusterfuck.. Good luck darlin'.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. So what do I need to do?

Should I save the image to my photobucket account?

And hey, this is no big deal. Minor problem comparatively speaking.

[Maddy McCall]

54. Yes, save it to your desktop, and then upload to photobucket.

Then just put your photobucket link in your sig. My image is on photobucket. :D

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Ok

Thanks.

[Omphaloskepsis]

63. No..

What you put in the sig line.. Change from what it was:

music.johnryanpowell.com/****

to: johnryanpowell.com/pics/bushbear.jpg

Just put "http://" before the johnryanpowell part. Without the qoutes.

And remove the space between the backslashes. Sorry if this is a pain in the ass.

[Mutley]

27. Ohh he's in sooooo much trouble!

I'm sorry he did that. :hug: At least he's okay. They gotta make their own mistakes, I guess.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. How many mistakes?

This is the umpteenth for this kid. grrr

[barb162]

128. A guy I know has a kid who had 35 traffic tickets by the time the

kid was 20. He told the kid if he had one more ticket, he wasn't paying for the expensive college anymore. Guess what. The snot did it again almost right away and the dad refused to pay the tuition. The kid is now working at a hardware store. It is 2 yrs. later. The kid blames his parents for not being able to finish college instead of looking in the mirror. They just got fed up with his crap and they refused to enable him anymore. (A lot of this was due to their enabling;the guy is a lawyer and was helping the snot get out of the ticket, talking to judges, paying off accident victims, etc)So now the snot with a bunch of guys. He hopes to become a cop (though don't ask me how anyone becomes a cop with all those tickets) and the police dept. will pay for his schooling. This snot had to learn the hard way; he thinks his parents owed him a college education and fixing any amount of goofing off he wanted to do. He probably still blames them and hates them but I think they are doing him a favor by making him pay for his own mistakes.

I don't know if this helps; I hope it does.

[A HERETIC I AM]

40. If the car is indeed totaled, you wont have to pay a deductable....

The insurance company will just give you a check and settle out the claim. The check will be for the replacement value of the car, if that is what your policy specifies. Deductables only come into play if the car is to be repaired. Thats why the lower the deductable, the higher the premium. You are going to have to take care of the first $500 in repairs, or whatever the deductable is. If the insurance company totals the car, you wont have to worry about that.


on edit to say sorry about your morning. It sucks but i agree with the others that say let him fix this. he's 27? Time to let him act like a man and deal with the problems he creates on his own.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Well I guess that is good news.

Now I get to worry about how upside down I am on my car loan.

[A HERETIC I AM]

57. That is a concern for you now. You can find out what it's worth in 5

minutes. Go to www.nada.com and look under "Used car values" or "How much is my car worth"

also go to www.kbb.com and do the same. You'll get different figures but it will give you an idea.

The 1st is the National Automobile Dealers Association's website and the 2nd is Kelly Blue Book. Both sources are used by dealers and the figures come from the hundreds of auto auctions held each week across the country.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. Great thanks

Will do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Yeah - two different figures alright

$6000 difference. That is pretty big.

[A HERETIC I AM]

78. Let me guess...NADA gave you the higher one....

Check all 3 figures....Retail, Wholesale and Loan.
Compare the 6 figures. Take an average between the two retail figures and you'll be pretty close.

You can also go to www.autotrader.com and search your model to see what others are asking.
Another site is www.cars.com

Good luck.

[madrchsod]

43. been there

except mine went thru the windshield and took out another car and put to other people in the hospital. that was one of the worse few days in our family`s life

[GalleryGod]

56. I Guess We were lucky. Our kids never came close to this !?!

Good luck.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Thanks

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. OMG how awful

I am grateful no one was hurt.

I was in Alanon for years. At my first meeting, there was a lady whose husband had killed an entire family in a head on accident. He was in prison for 20+ years.

Every time I felt sorry for myself, I would think of that lady. Man I wonder if she ever realized how much she helped me?

[newportdadde]

67. He isn't a kid, at 27 he is a man, send his ass to jail.

I'm about his age, almost 29. Your son needs to grow the hell up. When I was 27 I was rocking my son to sleep before going to bed myself at 10pm so I could drag my ass to work early the next day. Here in a few months I will be 29 and if all goes well rocking two twins to sleep. What the hell is he thinking being that dumb?

Sorry but your son has major issues if he is getting drunk and wrecking your car at my age, its time to grow up. The thought of someone my age so freaking irresponsible doing that, something that could have killed an actual reponsible person like say my pregnant wife or other folks on this board makes me want to vomit.

Take your son and press charges and then get him some counciling or help. He is on the path of ruin if he stays as is. Really given the fact he is a grown man(at least in age) I'm not sure what you can do.

It sounds like this isn't the first time so I'm guessing you have a history of bailing his ass out of trouble. I'd say its time to shut off the help, change the locks on the house and let him give it a go alone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Alone where?

Which street corner? Maybe a park? There are no homeless shelters in our suburb.

Press charges - sure, and send him to jail? Go ahead, you go first, send your own kids behind bars and then come back here and tell me you have no guilty conscience.

No we do not have a history of bailing his ass out. The only thing we have given him is a roof. We never give him money and he never gets to drive my car. He has to walk to where he needs to go. We make him do all the house and yard work, that is his rent.

Yes, he has issues, but jail ain't going to fix them. Been there, done that. Made no difference.

IF he had health insurance, I would help him find counseling.

[newportdadde]

70. Yes - jail.

Do it now or wait till he gets someone killed but your heading down that path. I'd prefer personally you do it now, we don't need anymore drunk drivers out ruining lives of those of us who know how to make good life choices.

Whats the alternative? Have him live with you the rest of his life raking leaves? What happens to him after you die and he is all by himself? He is 27 I mean DAMN whats the breaking point, another car totalled, or maybe he steals from you, where you drawing the line?

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Like I said we have done that

and it didn't seem to help.

I think the kid needs mental health care worse than a jail cell.

[GreenPartyVoter]

73. How about pastoral counseling? You might be able to get that for free, but

be sure to check out the church and pastor first. I can give you a list of denominations that tend to be liberal so that you can avoid finding a Dr. Dobson. :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. That is a great idea

We don't belong to a church so that would be most helpful.

Thanks, Green.

[GreenPartyVoter]

81. Well these are the

denominations to look into: http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm#denom

I always recommend having a litmus test of certain questions handy when you talk to the minister: war, homosexuality, women's right to choose, death penalty, separation of church and state, tolerance towards other religions and atheism, and so forth. Usually the Dobson types are quite proud of their beliefs so they aren't likely to try and hide them and then sucker punch you later.

I know ministers in both the UCC and Episcopal churches who are among the gentlest, most loving, and open-minded people you ever want to meet. But denominations vary from region to region so it's no guarantee all the churches produce that calibre of person. Unity, Universalist, and Metropolitan are among the most liberal of Christian-themed churches. (To the point of Jesus and or God not even coming up during some sermons. :) ) There are also liberal Hindu, Jewish, and Islamic resources out there but I do not have a list of worship sites available; just general ones: (Left side, "More progressive religions") http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm )

Also, don't discount 12 step programs. They have been helpful to my brother, although they are not a replacement for one-on-one counseling.

Finally, secular counseling may be available at a reduced rate. I used to go to a Tri-County service that had a sliding scale for the fees and it was pretty reasonable.

I hope this is of some help and that you can find someone to intervene with your son. :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. Green you are so wonderful.

Thank you so much for doing all this research for me.

DU really rocks. I got on here in the middle of the night with a problem and all you guys talked to me and advised me as if I am a family member or very close friend.

I can't thank you all enough. :grouphug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

90. *hugs* The thing is, I think of everyone as being part of my family Or.

at least try to. A bit hard to imagine Uncle Rush, y'know? *lol*

Let me know how things go for your son on your search for help? My dad has a degree in counseling and he may have more ideas if you hit a brick wall along the way.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. The kid leaves us few choices

I called around and found out where he was yesterday. He isn't hurt so that's good. He will likely not come home for a few days. So once again, we get to change the locks on the house and force him on to the streets.

I also realized he most likely lost his cell phone in the wreck. I just got it for him 2 weeks ago!! Oh well, thankfully it is insured. I just wish he still had it so we could at least stay in touch. I worried all day yesterday that he was in a hospital somewhere injured, had no ID and they couldn't call and notify us.

I am going to call our doctor's office today and get a referral for a family counselor. And I get to go car shopping. Whoopee. I HATE car salesmen. grrr.

[Tallison]

113. Great post

I'm going to book mark the geocities site. I've enjoyed your posts about the compatibility of Christianity and liberalism in the past and am working on developing a personal worldview in which they can coexist. I struggle sometimes, but I have the faith it can be worked out. :)

[Xithras]

82. You can't carry him forever.

Sorry, but there's no valid reason why a 27 year old should still be depending on his parents.

I have a 26 year old brother in law who we kindly refer to as the "family loser" because of his startling inability to get or keep any kind of real job. He's never had his own place, he dropped out of school, he's never owned a car, and yet he can always find the money to upgrade his PC or buy a new video game. My mother in law supports him because she's afraid of him being homeless.

Three months ago she made a comment about how he'd probably never change. The woman has beaten cancer several times, but acknowledges that she probably won't be around that much longer...so she told us that we'd need to help him out when she passed. As quick as I was to reply, my wife actually beat me to it when she said "Mom, the day you die is the day your son takes up permanent residence on a park bench." She was shocked at first, but soon realized that absolutely nobody in the family has any interest in helping this deadbeat.

Two weeks later she finally made him an ultimatum: Get and keep a job, AND go back to school and maintain good grades, or move out. He laughed at first, but a week later he came home from buying another stupid video game to find his stuff boxed up on her front lawn and the house locks changed. When he refused to leave, she called the police and had him escorted from the property.

The next morning he was registered with a full classload at the local community college. Two days after that he got himself a clerking job at the new local Target (it's crap pay, but it's a job and it got him back into the workforce). He actually slept under an overpass those three days, and she only let him back into the house to shower before the job interview. He was mugged the first night out and had his PS2 and a bunch of other stuff stolen from him too.

Once his enabler stopped helping and reality set in about the life he was leading, he began to help himself. He's now living back with my mother in law under the agreement that he pays $500 a month in rent with a $100 per month discount for every B or better that he gets on his grades each semester. He's also on notice that he'll have one year to find his own place once he finishes his degree.

No offense, but you need to do much the same thing. You're treating him like a child, giving him a home in exchange for chores. Even if he has a diagnosed medical problem, the reality is that he needs to learn to support HIMSELF. You're not going to be around forever, and society isn't going to do it for you. I know you don't want to see him hurt, but by not forcibly training him to care for himself, you're dooming him to homelessness and poverty once you pass on...assuming that he doesn't do something stupid that kills him before that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. We have kicked him out before.

He always comes back.

I guess I should go talk to a counselor. Right now I have to deal with insurance companies and the tow lot and just getting to work tomorrow and Friday is going to be a challenge.

I am pretty certain I won't see my kid for several days at least. Then about the time I finally have a new car and things have settled down, he will waltz back home.

[friesianrider]

92. Guilty conscience?

My best friend of 12 years was killed by a fucking 27-year-old drunk driver when I was 21 years old. Would you rather have THAT guilty conscience on your mind?

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. gee thanks for the encouraging words

Fortunately most DUers have a lot more tact than you do. They also don't ask stupid questions. No, I wouldn't feel guilty unless I was the drunk driver. My kid is an adult. He makes choices. It is not my fault that they are not always good choices.

[friesianrider]

104. Well they weren't meant to be encouraging words.

You stated with a sense of concern and a "gulity conscience" about your poor little 27 year old "kid" spending the night in jail and sleeping in the street. And I said that if him sleeping on the street means saving him from KILLING someone else (like me or anyone on DU) because he's clearly too irresponsible to drink or drive, then your kid needs a kick in the ass and punishment. I haven't heard much of any of that from you...so if you want tact regarding drunk driving, you can look elsewhere. Try losing someone you love at the age of 21 to an irresponsible asshole who CHOSE to drive drunk and then maybe you'll understand. Oh, and the kid who killed my friend had parents that sound a lot like you - the "kid" who killed my friend stole his parents car too and they just pooh-poohed what happened as "not their fault" as if they had no responsibility whatsoever in what happened. And if your "kid" doesn't get his ass kicked out and charges filed against him then that is what you're basically doing, I'm sorry.

And you're right, it isn't your fault that your 27-year-old "kid" doesn't always make good choices. What is your fault is that you actually considered picking him up from jail afterwards. What is your fault is that your "kid" could have easily killed me or someone else on the road, and totaled your car, and it just doesn't seem to register as a HUGE problem that demands some tough love. What is your fault is saying that you'd feel "guilty" about pressing charges on your own child...but don't seem to understand that your kid COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE. All I'm asking you to do is think about if you continue to essentially excuse his behavior and he does this again and kills someone, would you rather have that on your conscience? And what if he had killed someone last night? Then what? He's 27, apparently took your car in the middle of the night, got drunk, and totaled it. He apparently has no money and has been arrested several times before. You say you've kicked him out before but "he comes back." Ooook. I guess he held a gun to your head to let him stay? I mean, honestly. At what point do his actions hold consequences with you? Your husband seems to have the right idea.

I realize that it must be difficult to be harsh on your own kid, but for the love of God - what more needs to happen? Does he seriously have to kill someone before you'll take his irresponsibility seriously? That could *easily* have happened tonight. No, I do not know much about him but from what you've said it sounds like he has serious maturity and responsibility problems that aren't being dealt with. I'm glad that an asshole drunk driver has never taken the life of anyone you love - it's not something anyone should have to go through. But keep making excuses for your kid and coddling him and you'll learn soon enough.

[MountainLaurel]

106. Amen.

:applause:

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. I never considered picking him up from jail

I don't know where you got that idea. In fact, I think I posted that we told the cops we would NOT pick him up. And we did not.

And I do not make excuses for him. I am merely trying to understand why he makes the choices he does.

At this point, I am really only willing to listen to advice from other parents who have tough kids too. Several have PMed me. How sad that they sense it isn't safe to post here that they have troubled kids. Even my own sister told me tonight that she realizes she has no business telling me how to handle this kid and her role in his life is just to love him.

I have taken umpteen tough love classes and read several dozen books on the topic. I was a chapter leader in alanon for many years. I also teach special needs kids. So I am not a rookie at this and I do know a bit about how to handle tough kids. It is not as cut and dry as you and a few others on this thread seem to believe. That kind of an attitude just shows you have no experience in this area.

I can only hope that your children are perfect or nearly so as being patient with a less than perfect one will probably be most difficult for you.

[friesianrider]

111. Actually in your OP...

You said that your husband wouldn't go get him and you didn't have a car so you couldn't either. Doesn't sound to me like you were refusing to go get him, sounds like you would have but you didn't have a car and your husband wouldn't do it.

It is cut and dry. Your "child" could have killed ME on the street while he was out having fun. I'm so glad that you don't seem to even remotely grasp what it must be like to lose a fucking wonderful person to a drunk driving idiot like your son. You can excuse it all you want (like in one of your posts where you called it a "minor problem, comparatively speaking" :eyes:) You may have a ton of "experience" or whatever that laundry list was, but your pooh-pooh attitude is sickening, and I say that as someone who has lost a friend I loved to a drunk driver who had parents just like you.

Seriously, I feel for your situation and all because he's your "child", but a lot of your comments are way off base. You seem to have little or no concept of what could easily have happened. Maybe you should meet some families who have lost loved ones to drunk drivers. I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned DDs are the most selfish assholes on this Earth next to child molesters. Your "kid" could likely kill someone soon and while I'm only going off your posts here you don't seem to least bit worried about it. To whoever is reading this now: what if this person is driving down the road your kid is on? What if it's the road you're driving on? Or your husband/wife is driving on? Or your kid is riding their bike on?

Your "kid" drove drunk, and somehow your thought is "thank God he's ok." I'm sorry...him?! He is 27 years old, stole your car, got wasted, got behind the wheel, got into an accident, and totaled your car...and you were concerned about HIM? My God I hope you never know what it's like to lose someone you love to an irresponsible asshole drunk driver. I'm sorry but it makes me absolutely sick to see your non-chelante attitude towards it. Absolutely fucking sick.

I'm sorry for the outburst and I'm sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you, but NO ONE gets it until they've lost someone they love to a drunk driver. I can't handle this conversation anymore because you sound SO much like the kid who killed my friend's parents. So I am just going to leave now...but I hope for the sake of society that your kid gets his act together. If he wants to kill himself that's his own business but he has no fucking right to get behind the wheel drunk and drive on the same road I and my loved ones are on.

[proud2BlibKansan]

117. My son did not kill anyone

and hopefully he has learned a big lesson and will not repeat his bad choice.

Getting upset with me does no good. Like I have tried to say, unless you have raised a tough kid as I have, you are in no position to lecture me. My attitude is anything but nonchalant. I am sorry you think differently.

I am truly sorry for your loss. I have heard some horrid stories in alanon. I can't begin to describe the guilt the families of drunk drivers feel. Perhaps a visit to a meeting in your area would help you deal with your grief.

[Shell Beau]

68. Gosh! Every parents second to worst nightmare!!

Hopefully keeping him in jail a little while will straighten him up! Good luck with whatever punishment you choose. Sorry, I know this is tough! :hug:

[Arkana]

77. He's not hurt? Good.

That way you won't feel bad when you ream him a new asshole for being so irresponsible (that is, if that's what you plan on doing).

[proud2BlibKansan]

96. Yes

That's what I would prefer.

[ronnykmarshall]

79. As you sure he's not a Bush?

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. Yes I am sure

He's a proud liberal.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

84. There's only one thing to do:

Take EVERYTHING out of his bedroom except for the Bed, his chests of drawers, other furniture and his clock. Let him keep a couple of books. Then make him earn back everything slowly after proving he's not the idiot he has shown himself to be. It's a great way for some kids to learn their lesson.
Duckie

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. We've done that

There is stil stuff up in the attic hidden away from the last time he did something stupid.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

86. I'm glad he's not hurt...and gladder still that nobody else is.

I'm sorry you have to go through this though.

My aunt and uncle had to get tough with their boy. He was a cocaine addict who ended up stealing from them. He'd go to jail, rehab, and back to jail again. If he'd been black he'd probably still be there.

You might want to look into AlAnon or somesuch support group for relatives and friends of alcoholics, or get some counseling to help you be strong through this. It sounds to me like your husband's right...especially if you've warned your son in the past.

Don't worry too much. Some people just need to hit rock bottom before they get their act together.:hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

99. Thanks goddess

We are hoping this is his rock bottom.

[Telly Savalas]

88. Got no advice...

but I'll send some good wishes and positive vibes your way.

:hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. That is great

thank you

[bleedingheart]

89. Sorry...

sending hugs your way...

it is hard being a parent....

I can't offer any advice as mine are little and they haven't yet really mastered bike riding...let alone cars...

but I hope all will work out!

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. When mine were little someone told me

to be thankful I knew where they were. I had no idea what that meant until they were old enough to be grown and roaming the streets. So I now pass that wisdom along to young parents. BE GRATEFUL YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE :)

[youthere]

91. Thank goodness he isn't hurt.

Sorry about your car.

[proud2BlibKansan]

102. Thanks youthere

:)

[Mizmoon]

103. Do NOT press charges

they don't care about him in jail. Nothing will happen for him there except maybe he'll get raped while the guards laugh.

I do suggest that you throw him out and stop giving him stuff like cell phones. Time for him to sink or swim.

:hug: I'm sorry there are so many snotty assholes on this board.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

114. have you seen American History X?

perhaps it might help him if he went to jail.

[lonestarnot]

115. You could call a friend or take a taxi...

[ProudToBeLiberal]

116. Make him walk

He's 27, his parents doesn't always have to hold his hand.

[lonestarnot]

123. For fuck sakes he's been in a drunkin wreck....now he needs his Mom.

What's wrong with dat?

[IdaBriggs]

118. My 2 Cents -- (You might now like them.)

First of all, he's not "a kid." At 27, he is a man. That doesn't mean he won't always be your baby, but some things need to change in your household, and the "attitude" of him being "just a kid" is a great place to start. He's a man.

He's also a man who has/is screwing up his life. You say further down post that you've been providing him a place to stay, and that's it, but he's obviously getting money somewhere, otherwise he wouldn't have had enough cash to get drunk on. Whatever you thought you were accomplishing ("at least he's not sleeping on the street?") isn't helping him to be a man worth knowing.

Question 1: Is there a diagnosable physical health problem? For example, is he suffering from depression, schizophrenia, manic depression, or some other treatable problem? If so, scrape together the money and get him some treatment. Check your phone book for low income resources, because they are out there.

I recommend a wonderful book called "Parenting Your Out of Control Teen" for you -- get it on Amazon ASAP. I understand your son is 27, but his emotional development seems to be much less. The book will provide some excellent guidance for getting things back under control IN YOUR HOUSE.

Question 2: Is your son's behavior causing difficulty in your marriage? If so, its time to end that particular triangle. Hints from other postings lead me to believe your husband is the "tuffie" and you are the "softie" with your son playing the two of you against each other. The two of you need to get on the same page. Read the book and try again, or boot him the hell out. The drama is NOT good for ANYONE'S health.

It is very sad that criminal behavior has become an acceptable norm in your household. It sounds very chaotic and dysfunctional. At some point, you and your husband have enabled this to continue. I'm sorry to say that, but its true. If your son at 27 is doing this much self inflicted damage to your family system, he is obviously reacting to SOMETHING that is going on around him; most people don't self-medicate to this level unless they are trying to cope with SOMETHING (at least initially). It sounds like everyone is very comfortable with his "problem child" role, but its time to change things -- and that means YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND need to do something DIFFERENT.

Your son, while living under your roof, displayed a problem with alcohol. I think it is safe to assume this is not the first "drug and/or alcohol problem" your family has coped with -- which means its time for YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND to get your tookuses to Al-Anon, pick up a couple of "Co-Dependent No More" type books, browse some internet sites, and start taking care of EACH OTHER instead of him.

He's a grown-up. He can take care of himself. Really.

And if you don't do these things, I'm going to say one of the most painful things one human being can say to another:

If it comes down to his life versus that of an innocent, I'm hoping your son goes first. I'm sorry to say that, but for me, your son stepped over the sympathy line when he endanged the lives of others. If he chooses to stop his self destructive behavior, I'm here to offer my sympathy and support; if he doesn't, I hope he hits a tree instead of a family.

Do you understand what I am saying? I am not wishing ill on him, but I am telling you flat out that you are fast approaching a point where total strangers would rather see him dead than driving while drunk.

What you've been doing hasn't worked; its time to try something new. Because its going to be new, it will be uncomfortable for you, but I know you can do it. I believe in you. You will survive "feeling bad" for being "mean" to him, but he is NOT going to survive your continuing to be "nice" to him.

I'm sorry I have to say these things, my friend. The only reason I know to say them is because of my beloved twenty year old heroin addict niece -- the one my heart aches for, because she's currently supporting her drug habit via prostitution. Our doing "the right thing" is painful; I'm sorry that I understand more than I want to....

Good luck! :hug:

[grace0418]

125. Excellent advice.

Hugs all around. These are tough things to live through. Good luck.

[barb162]

120. I think Mutley in post 45 gave really good advice.

The only thing I'd add is hide those car keys.

(And yep, you get to hurt him...bam, bam, bam)

[Floogeldy]

126. Reason #69,668 why I don't have kids.

}(

[northzax]

127. whatever you do, don't spank him

it'll just teach him bad lessons.

sorry, I had to.

[barb162]

129. bwaha