I finally have women figured out!!!

[JohnnyCougar]

The nicer you are to them, the less they trust you!!

All women, all the time!

Everything makes sense now! :bounce:

[Guava Jelly]

1. its called nice guy syndrome

nice guys arent fun.
@$$ holes that treat some women (not all) like shit are just so much more exciting.
its totally crazy

[JohnnyCougar]

2. But I'm fun, too!

And I'm kind of cocky. Girls seem to like it when you act like you're full of yourself.

But eventually, the real me shows through. Once they find out I'm a really cool guy, it's over.

[NMMNG]

3. More like, if a guy is being nice they must be "up to something"

Just like when a kid is being too quiet...


;-)

[JohnnyCougar]

4. What the fuck!!! I'm not up to anything!

Except trying to get laid ;)

Well, actually, I'd rather just have a girlfriend that I can trust. I guess that is the problem.

[NMMNG]

6. Isn't that what every guy is up to?

:rofl:

[JohnnyCougar]

8. Well, of course.

I guess if you're just overt about it, it works better. Well, actually, I know that. But really what I want is someone to love and trust. Honestly. Sleeping with people and never seeing them again never made me feel better (with the exception of a couple hours).

[NMMNG]

9. It's nice to know there are guys out there who feel that way

:thumbsup:

[JohnnyCougar]

10. Nice for you!

Not nice for me!

My mom was too good to me. Some woman needs to beat me up so I can start hating y'all!

[NMMNG]

11. Well, technically it doesn't matter to me

As I date women. However I'm sure it matters to the women you date and potentially date. :-)

[philosophie_en_rose]

82. Some women do like jerks. (many don't).

I have friend who always dates assholes the rest of her friends barely tolerate.

My theory is that she likes that someone so mean and vile towards others (expecially waitstaff :grr:) would choose to be kind towards her. As if that makes her especially special.

[tjdee]

83. I've seen that too. Taming the savage beast, as it were.

I can understand that perspective. Like, she's the only one who can calm him, extract the sweetness from him.... so it's not like "women hate themselves" as someone says below, it's actually an ego thing with some women. They get souped up if they feel that they alone have reached through and gotten the niceness from that guy.

[philosophie_en_rose]

173. There's that, but I think it's worse with her.

She doesn't care that he's a jerk. It's a sort of elitism. She's good enough for somebody with 'high standards' (her words) and no compassion.

[Arkana]

100. It's paradoxical, to be sure.

There's also the "good friend" syndrome--I'm sure a lot of DU men have experienced that. It's what "nice guy" syndrome develops into when the girl trusts you.

[existentialist]

119. Sylvia Plath quoting Friedrich Nietzsche

"'Every woman adores a fascist. A boot in the face.' from a brute like you Daddy."

Sylvia Plath, quote within the quote by Friedrich Nietzsche

[DiverDave]

5. Deep down, women hate themselves

and they search out the men who treat them like they feel.

I,too, have seen what treating them good gets you.
I had a friend that treated women like dirt...I asked him why he did that.
His answer?
I get so many girls.
Another friend started to do the same, he was booked solid.
There IS truth to what you say.

[salin]

14. thanks

I didn't know I hate myself? Who knew? Who knew we were ALL the same.

There are men and women for whom this is the truth (generally not the best folks to be in a relationship with - as there are issues there.) DOesn't it make most sense to try to learn to detect this characteristic - and avoid the ones who want unhealthy relationships?

Or is it just easier to affirm the justification to treat all women horribly?

Just askin'?

[bettyellen]

67. no, becasue then these guys would have to admit that they are choosing

to chase screwed up weak wounded women, and they might actually have to think about what that means. LOL.

[salin]

73. or perhaps that their version of "being nice"

might be construed as... over bearing or creepy? Not always the case - but sometimes...

[bettyellen]

80. or even more common, when they think shallow compliments and buying

you shit adds up to being nice. it adds up to me thinking you're a fucking bore who ain't getting any. LOL.

[Tallison]

180. You nailed it, too.

:thumbsup:

[Tallison]

179. You nailed it.

:thumbsup:

[fudge stripe cookays]

161. I think...

that has to be one of the more offensive posts I've ever seen here.

I thought this was a progressive board.

Judgmental much?

[Tallison]

181. Sounds like Diverdave digs women who hate themselves

and exploiting them is the closest he'll ever get to developing a relationship with one. Scary to hear that that's apparently good enough for him.

[raccoon]

206. I agree completely. nt

[Tallison]

182. People who are fucked in the head usually attract

the same, is maybe your problem.

[Jamastiene]

7. So true.

Or so it seems. I once thought I had women figured out. Now, I know only one thing. I know nothing. I just go with the flow and accept that I am flawed.

[AirmensMom]

12. Guess you got burned.

You don't have women figured out at all.

[salin]

15. heh

indeed taking this attitude forward as insight... makes it more likely that the next relationship won't go so well...

[salin]

13. now that belief

will get you far.... :sarcasm:

oh how broad sweeping generalizations on half the population are so much fun to read to start the day.

Perhaps instead one should ponder how one can avoid in the future those (men and women) for whom this is their truth? :shrug:

[JohnnyCougar]

107. Allright...allright.

Obviously people here didn't pick up on the sarcasm...

I even but a bouncy in there.

I know there are good women with tremendously high self-esteems out there. But I guess at my age, they are all busy somewhere getting educated or something.

No matter what I do, the only girls I end up meeting have deep depression issues. I'm not searching them out, I swear. And it's not even that I disrespect girls with issues. I love all women, I really do. And I know they have to help themselves, and that I can't help them. I'm not trying to "rescue" anyone. I just want someone I can trust and grow with, and I get cynical when things end up in failure.

I think one of the factors is that girls that are depressed are attracted to me, because I really do show respect for them. And I'm not talking about the passive-aggressive creepy guy respect, I'm talking about real respect.

So then those girls want to hang out with me because they trust me as a friend, but would never trust themselves in a relationship with me. And I get a crush on them if they are really cute and honest. And then the shit hits the fan.

[smirkymonkey]

124. Yes, but most depressed women have serious self esteem

issues, which means that they probably aren't going to be attracted to someone who treats them well because it is inconsistent with their self-image.

People are strange, they may think they want to be happy with another person, but often they choose someone who reinforces the negative view they have of themselves, the opposite sex (or whatever sex their lover is) and relationships in general.

The question is, how do you keep ending up with this type of person? I used to think I was a victim stuck in a pattern of ending up with the same type of self-hating man, but once I recognized that on some level I CHOSE this type of person because something in me needed to believe all men were this way or that's all I deserved, I was able to change the pattern. Now I have nobody! ha ha :)

Seriously though, I am a good person - for the most part - and I am sure you are as well, but I think we need to look at ourselves to figure out what part of us needs to continue the pattern. (i.e. do you need to be needed? feel superior? etc. - btw, I am not accusing you of any of this, but I find that most of us really need to examine our deepest motivations if we want our lives to change for the better.) Good luck!

[JohnnyCougar]

221. I don't think it's an inferiority/superiority thing

I want balance. Sometimes I like to be in charge, but not all the time. I don't want a woman to like me if I boss her around. But I don't want to be bossed around, either, at least all the time. I want someone who's confident enough to say something if I am out of line, but who's not going to use it against me. That's what I do with other people. I am usually brutally honest. If you ask me a question and expect me to placate you, you're in for a surprise. I just do that because I hate it when people placate me.

So I'm more about truth and balance than about dominance and submissiveness. Most of the girls I meet (and even most guys) are afraid to piss me off by telling me a truth that might be a little unpleasant. But I like the brutal truth. I'll never become a better person unless I hear it. And neither will anyone else.

[chknltl]

16. This man has women figured out and he has men figured out too:

www.blowmeuptom.com If you don't already know about him then check him out. His advice is VERY popular with folks who want to get laid.

[salin]

17. I would guess that he is popular with

the market niche that also likes this: http://www.boinkmail.com/id.htm

(pun on the last linked website... intended)

[chknltl]

18. wooo-hooo

That answers the question; "What to get the man who has everything???"

I am willing to bet that Tom Leykis, does not have one of these!
:rofl:

[Seabiscuit]

158. "VERY popular with folks who want to get laid"???

Only where such "folks" are extremely immature young males who don't care what they're getting into bed with for the night so long as it's easy.

Tom Leykis is an immature asswipe with a big mouth.

[chknltl]

192. An opinion shared by many but not by myself.

Although I am too old to be in his demographics I find little of what he says to be objectionable. Tom would wonder here: What "SPECIFICALLY" do you find objectionable about him. 99% of those who respond to him on the air to that question founder badly because they have nothing specific to point out. I am not Tom Leykis, I would likely not do well in a debate trying to defend his points but I would love to hear how my fellow DUer might respond.
Bear in mind, I am NOT looking to argue here, I respect my fellow DUers and I am genuinely interested in hearing opinions which are contrary to my own. (No tricks, Tom is the "Master Debater and Cunning Linguist" not I)

[Missy Vixen]

212. Oh, I'll be happy to tell you why I object to Tom Leykis and his

garbage that passes for "entertainment".

>Tom would wonder here: What "SPECIFICALLY" do you find objectionable about him. 99% of those who respond to him on the air to that question founder badly because they have nothing specific to point out.<

First of all, Tom Leykis, despite his protestations to the contrary, doesn't like women. He especially doesn't like women that have an opinion about anything contrary to his, he doesn't like women who make their own money, he doesn't like women who actually expect to be treated with courtesy. To Tom, women are essentially disposable and little better than a blowup doll.

I might also mention that Leykis does not allow debate of his "points". Any caller that attempts it, especially a woman, is quickly dumped or "blown up".

Leykis is not a "master debater". I'd like five minutes on his show in which he wasn't allowed to use his dump button, the mute button, or to speak over me. Then again, why would I want to waste my time? I prefer the men in my life to be intelligent, engaging, funny and to truly like the company of women. Leykis has previously shown he's none of the above.

Julie

[Seabiscuit]

213. Well put. Leykis is nothing but a blowhard with an axe to grind against

women.

I'm a guy, by the way. People like Leykis could make me ashamed of my gender if I didn't know any better.

[chknltl]

214. Wow

I promised that I was genuinely interested in hearing your viewpoint here. Sadly I must confess that I can only support one of your points. I have heard these very accusations spoken to Tom by female callers every now and then. These make for great shows. You wish not to waste your time with Tom, I think that is a wise decision. This is that one point in your post which I can support. Please note that I am not trying to goad you into calling him, nor do I wish to debate a fellow DUer on this topic. I will respect your opinion as I hope you can respect mine. Thank you for giving me your specific views on Tom Leykis.
c

[Missy Vixen]

217. And your point would be?

>Sadly I must confess that I can only support one of your points.<

My points are repeatedly proven facts. Tom Leykis has shown repeatedly, both on his radio program and in his personal life, that he does not like women. He does not consider them people worthy of the most basic of courtesies.

>I have heard these very accusations spoken to Tom by female callers every now and then.<

These are not "accusations". They are fact. Mr. Leykis is so thin skinned, unfortunately, that he does not brook criticism.

>These make for great shows.<

I'd rather listen to AAR or music, thanks.

Julie

[chknltl]

219. not my point...your point:

I would not waste my time with him... That was the only point of yours which I could support. In this latest post by you I support your desire to listen to AAR music. I do not support much else in your post as "facts". It is quite apparent that I can not change your opinion on Tom Leykis...Nor do I desire to do so. You are my fellow DUer, I wish to respect you, not fight with you over something which can not possibly alter the views of either of us.

[hobo_baggins]

201. Hey, I'm a male who doesn't consider himself extremely immature

and I happen to enjoy casual sex with lots of different people. So please don't judge those of us who just like to get it on.

[Seabiscuit]

210. It's not a condemnation. I was there for years myself.

I just think Leykis' cynical attitude about it all is dumb, dumb, dumb.

[In_The_Wind]

19. That's not true!

[JohnnyCougar]

108. Aww...thanks!

See, I knew I was just being cynical!

[In_The_Wind]

215. Sometimes I feel the same way about men.

They seem to like me better after I'm pissed off at them. :shrug: What's up with that.

[JohnnyCougar]

220. If you're pissed off, the think they did something wrong

so they think they have to make up for it.

[In_The_Wind]

222. I'm very easygoing so if I'm pissed off, they did do something wrong ...

However - by the time I'm that upset it's usually over.
I try to work out misunderstandings as they happen.
I've gotten cards and letters after the final goodbyes saying "Can we try again?".
One man that I loved ask me to look him up in 20 years ~ I did but then chickened out before contacting him.
I've always wondered why they didn't want to try before they had killed my love and it was way too late.



Life is not a dress rehearsal ~ there are no do-overs.

[JI7]

20. a lot of times guys come across as fake

and kiss ass and just overdo it. they think they are being nice .

i'm not sure if this was the case with you. but i know there are times guys do this and they think the reason the girl didn't like them was because they were nice rather than because they came off as the way i described.

[Wetzelbill]

21. No I have them figured out

That's I am going to stay away from this thread. :)

[havocmom]

35. Spoken like a man with a real clue!

:yourock:

[Wetzelbill]

71. I learned the hard way

:)

The best thing for a guy to do really is simply to listen. Like the OP coming out and doing the "Nice guy's finish last" stuff is just going to stoke the flames. You know, sometimes it does feel that women will only go for jerks. But, that isn't always the case, it also depends on what kind of women you are going after in the first place. That can hurt though, being on the wrong side of it all. But, nice guys do pretty well if they are willing to stick it out and find the right woman. A guy just has to be wary about getting into a battle by calling out women and lumping them all into the same category. Best to sit back, listen and start figuring out a woman's pov from there. We'll never fully get it, but we can begin to understand somewhat.

[havocmom]

74. Grasshopper, you continue to give me hope for the future.

My daughter was giving a male pal some advice about buying his lady lingerie. The gentleman got an education! He listens and that's why she even bothered to help dispell him of some foolish notions...

paraphrasing the Havocpup when the gentleman said he though women hated getting gifts of lingerie: No they hate being given lingerie which indicates their partner really doesn't have a clue what their body is like. SIZE MATTERS. Get at least close to the right one, even if you have to borrow something out of her lingerie drawer for reference when you shop! And get the nice stuff unless you really know she likes the cheap slut style. It's a gift for her, not for you... not at first anyway. Listen and observe. Don't go for leather collar and spikes unless she gives indications it is something she might like to try!

LOL her telling the tail was a hoot, but since the man is a listener, he will probably do OK. ;)

[Wetzelbill]

75. oh lord me in a lingerie store would be a disaster

I'd need to be walked through everything. Plus, I'd probably be beet red the whole time.

Well, at least, he had a knowledgable woman who is willing to help him out anyway. Better to not go in totally blind, lol.

[havocmom]

77. She needs flexible work hours to allow her to take courses she wants.

Perhaps she should beome a shopping consultant for clueless males. :D

[Wetzelbill]

79. oh we're all pretty clueless

we just don't like to admit it. Try getting one of us to admit we are lost. Not gonna happen. :)

If clueless males are the demographic then her supply would be limitless. :)

[havocmom]

91. LOL Alrighty then, she is gonna be sitting pretty

Mom is a great motivator and auntie is a sales/marketting goddess! With a limitless potential client base we got a winnah!

[smirkymonkey]

123. I think we attract our spiritual equivalent.

Or, more simply, someone who is as fucked up (or as sane) as we are. Men and women may manifest thier sickness differently (some women may be more masochistic and men sadistic, although I have seen the reverse quite often as well) but the bottom line is that healthy people will attract healthy people.

Personally, I don't want someone to "act nice" or to act at all. I want someone who IS nice and doesn't have to put on a show to prove it.

[tigereye]

127. if you like yourself

I think you have a better shot at attracting others who do as well.

I realize that physical or emotional attraction does not always take this into consideration, but sometimes people who don't initially seem "exciting" may become that way over time. I think it's a matter of getting past just the sexual attraction part.

[Wapsie B]

153. smirkymonkey & tigereye, very good posts!

I would put it as like attracts like. I'm as guilty as anyone at getting down on myself but I'm working hard to change that.

[tigereye]

174. thanks BWA

[raccoon]

207. You got it, smirkymonkey. nt

[Callalily]

22. There's absolutely

nothing wrong with being nice. Sheesh . . . I don't know what kind of women you guys have been dating if they don't like you because you're too nice. I'm comfortable with who I am, no façade here. Makes life so much easier.

[matcom]

23. its NEVER too early for...

:popcorn:

[GOPisEvil]

26. My watch must be running fast.

I can swear we weren't scheduled for the "why do women hate nice guys" flame war for another week.

:popcorn:

[matcom]

29. i think daylight savings time threw us off

don't forget to move "Children in Movie Theaters" up a week too!

[GOPisEvil]

30. It's time we did away with DST.

I guess we have to move songbirds and outside cats up, too. Can we avoid a Thanksgiving flame war? Think of the children...

[matcom]

36. no.

i have SPECIALLY saved outside cats for Thursday morning. that is pretty much set in stone. sorry.

there are some things i just can't budge on

[salin]

42. if we invite zomby

we can do fried chicken on Monday... :shrug: (he recently reminded me of that one.)

[GOPisEvil]

49. Maybe we can combine the fried chicken and the boiled ribs flamewars.

:bounce:

[salin]

52. only if the "Definition of chef" flamewar can be thrown in as well

:popcorn:

[GOPisEvil]

54. "Culinary Flame War Thursday"

I like the sound of that. :patriot:

[salin]

56. microwave, stovetop or popper?

:popcorn:

[GOPisEvil]

58. Hey! It's not Thursday!

;)

:popcorn:

[salin]

60. dang anticipation is getting the best of me.

[GOPisEvil]

61. Thanks for the Carly earworm.

;)

[salin]

63. catsup or ketchup?

:evilgrin:

[GOPisEvil]

64. !!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[GOPisEvil]

46. OK, as long as it's in the morning.

Just don't disturb the actual meal. Actually a good flame war builds the appetite.

[Arkana]

102. When's the next "breastfeeding in public" one scheduled for?

:popcorn:

[tigereye]

128. sign me up for that one

I love to argue about that one!

[havocmom]

43. You guys want some milk & sugar with your, ahem, corn puffs?

:D I'll make a BIG pot of coffee and whip some cream... that cream has been WAY to nice. Time to teach it a lesson.

[Misunderestimator]

24. I finally have men figured out!!!

The really smart ones know that if they tell the really stupid ones to treat women badly... they will do it, and then the smart, nice ones will get all the women.

Amazing. :eyes:

[Wetzelbill]

28. shhhhh

don't let the secret out. I need all the help I can get. :)

[Misunderestimator]

44. Hey... weren't you going to stay out of this thread?

:D :hi:

[Wetzelbill]

48. I become emboldened when my friends show up

:)

[Misunderestimator]

50. LOL

:thumbsup: Good strategy!

[Wetzelbill]

53. never miss an opportunity

to stand behind somebody else and talk tough. :) Sucking up doesn't hurt either.

[havocmom]

76. Yep, you do have some potential in politics

LOL or in a comedy club!

[Wetzelbill]

81. aren't they pretty much the same thing nowadays?

:)

[havocmom]

92. Can I get a rimshot for WB? My snare drum is in the shop

and the bodhran does not give the right sound!

[Misunderestimator]

93. You got it...

[Wetzelbill]

172. ha!

that's pretty cute. :)

[In_The_Wind]

31. There You Go! The Real Truth Is Here!

:hi:

[Misunderestimator]

78. :)

:hi:

[NewJeffCT]

25. I've always been a nice guy & have married two babes

Granted, I was often frustrated when I was in my 20s, but I never stopped being a nice guy & treating a woman well. The right woman is worth the wait.

Below is a pic of my wife, who also holds 2 master's degrees. My ex-wife, while looking quite different than my current wife, was also attractive (imagine a 5 foot tall Hooters girl with big blue eyes)

[Wetzelbill]

27. are you serious?

:wow:

Talk about a walking dreamgirl. I'm speechless.

[NewJeffCT]

33. yes, I'm serious

that is my wife in her Chinese style wedding dress.

[Wetzelbill]

38. does she have twin or a sister that's available?

no serious, you're a lucky man, she's one of the most gorgeous women I've ever seen.

Two Master's degrees, you say? :)

[NewJeffCT]

40. yes 2 master's degrees

and 2 undergraduate degrees.

Her sister, also attractive, is married with a 10 or 11 year old son.

She does have a very pretty cousin that is like 22 years old & in Shanghai Very nice girl, too.

[Wetzelbill]

45. no kidding

Hook a brutha up!

I probably would be absolutely tongue-tied. Women reduce me to putty. :)

[NewJeffCT]

66. you might have to wait a bit

she is studying to get into law school (in China) next year. After she gets her law degree, she is tentatively planning to come to the US to further her education.

she's a bit shorter than my wife, with my wife being 5'4" and her cousin being like 5'2" or 5'3"

The good news is that even though she currently lives in Shanghai, she is not from Shanghai... women from Shanghai expect men to do all the housework!

[Wetzelbill]

69. hey, I like housework

and short women too. :)

I have plenty of time to wait. I'm in no hurry.

[NewJeffCT]

70. she does have a cousin from Shanghai then!

She is not as pretty as the above mentioned cousin, but she's cute & nice, 24 years old and probably will try to come here for grad school in fall of '07 or '08.

[Wetzelbill]

72. I'm down either way

:)

I'll trust your judgment since you obviously have good taste. :)

Damn, they all must really be intelligent, huh?

Nothing like an intelligent woman. :: swoon ::

[Arkana]

105. ...

:wow:

That's all I can say. Beautiful AND smart--you hit the jackpot!

[NewJeffCT]

106. thanks, I know I'm very lucky

i had that pic up at work earlier this year & had to take it down... it was too distracting. :)

but, i also treat her very nicely, and always have from day 1.

[NashVegas]

32. The Time to Be 'Nice' Is *After* You've Figured Out What You Want And ...

... let it be known, and known you're not going to change your mind anytime soon.

Until then, *this* woman sees taking a 'nice' guy seriously as an opportunity to get yanked around.

[havocmom]

34. Spoken like a chap with a history of attraction to the wrong women.

Guys who choose the same type of woman over and over, not learning any lesson from the process, are more likely to come to bogus conclusions which they erroneously apply to "All women, all the time!"

[Wetzelbill]

39. yeah, what she said

:)

[raccoon]

85. Exactly, havocmom! And the same could be said for women

who choose the same kind of man over and over.

It's always easier to lay the blame somewhere else, to say,

"All women(men)are (fill in characteristic here)," than it is to look at yourself and see what part you play in the relationships.

[havocmom]

103. That ol defination of insanity applies...

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while hoping for a different outcome

Speaking from experience, once you self-police enough to really break old patterns, relationships can become much more pleasant!

[JohnnyCougar]

109. See post 107

I'm just trying to be sarcastic.

[tjdee]

37. Maybe you have BIMBOS figured out....

Women like nice men.

They don't like men who overdo it, who are being nice so they can go "And I was so nice to you, what's your problem?"....

People date the wrong kind of person, on purpose, and then they want to paint everyone with the same brush.

Unless you're talking about straight men, who only want to get laid, are allergic to commitment, and secretly think they can get women like Eva Longoria, so ordinary women should be thanking their stars straight men date them at all.
:eyes:

:hide:

[salin]

47. guess nice could also be misconstrued..

as in if guy thinks being nice is ... calling to check in and wish well, every 30 minutes ... after the second date.

In that case - it is a misunderstanding of what is "nice" - cause it is possible that what one thinks is "being nice" (as in their own behavior) can be construed as overbearing, moving too fast, or just downright creepy.

[datasuspect]

51. salient point, salin

stalker mentality - the tool of choice of control freaks.

[salin]

55. funny how on these threads

we never get around to asking about the "nice" behavior that led to the all women are evil and just like brutish guys conclusion. Not that there aren't some really damaged folks (both gender) who for whatever reason do seem to be attracted to folks who keep up a certain damaging cycle.

[datasuspect]

57. it would be interesting

7 times out of 10 a person can often be their own best company.

nonetheless, hatred of women is deeply ingrained in this culture. a hopeless artifact strenuously adhered too. cf. the bible, the right wing, most of our culture.

[salin]

65. very insidious

for example, I would doubt that the original poster would view the words posted as being mysoginistic - but it is so easy, in this society, to generalize from a bad single situation, and blame it on ALL women and generalize it to ALL women. *sigh*

[Tallison]

183. And the insidious ways in which such hatred betrays itself

are easy to miss or speciously rationalize. Thanks for remaining vigilant with us.

[tjdee]

62. I'm with you guys.

I mean, did he open the door for her once and thinks of that as "nice" behavior that a woman hates to deal with?

I would like a bit of cataloguing on what people think "nice" is.

[tigereye]

130. yes good point, TJ

[raccoon]

90. Good point, Salin. So let's hear it, JohnnyCougar et al,

How do yall define "nice guy?"

[JohnnyCougar]

114. Define nice guy...ok

1. Someone who gives you space and lets you be yourself.

2. Someone who will respect you for who you are, and not what they want you to be.

3. Someone who will go out on a limb and take an emotional risk for you, and not expect any "payback."

4. Someone who will help you grow as a person and gain wisdom and understanding, instead of trying to hold you down in order to control you.

That's how I'd define "nice guy."

[smirkymonkey]

125. That would be my idea of a dream man!

I usually find men who want to control me and play games. Of course, I have a part in that - I have committment issues as well so it gives me an excuse not to stay.

[tigereye]

131. but that sounds very good -

it goes both ways, though, and sometimes people need to grow into those perspectives. We aren't all born knowing what we want, or like.

[tjdee]

135. Too vague for me still.

1. Someone who gives you space and lets you be yourself.

Does this mean not call for a day or two and when you call, be confused that she sounds mad that you didn't call?

2. Someone who will respect you for who you are, and not what they want you to be.

Does that mean "I know you don't care about football, and that's fine...so I'm going to the game with your hot friend because she loves the Eagles/Bengals/whatever?"

3. Someone who will go out on a limb and take an emotional risk for you, and not expect any "payback."

I don't even know WTF this means. An emotional risk? Like saying "I love you" and not expecting her to say it back? That's nice?

4. Someone who will help you grow as a person and gain wisdom and understanding, instead of trying to hold you down in order to control you.

Does this mean you'll let me sit out on the highway with a flat tire because I'm gaining wisdom and growing as a person by dealing with it by myself?

I'm not saying you're not "nice", but do you see how "nice" can mean different things to different people? What you *think* you're doing, you may not be doing. I'm not saying you're not nice, I'm just throwing that out there. And maybe someone doesn't *receive* what you're doing through no fault of your own.

[JohnnyCougar]

148. To clarify...

1. Someone who gives you space and lets you be yourself.

Does this mean not call for a day or two and when you call, be confused that she sounds mad that you didn't call?

Every woman is different. So if you expect men to automatically know your specific frequency of calls desired, it is unrealistic. Would I be confused if you were "mad" because I didn't know your desired call frequency? I sure would be. Some women don't want to be called every day right away. All you need to do is to simply state that you would like to be called more frequently. You shouldn't get mad about it. If someone got mad because of this right from the get go, I would probably question her emotional maturity. But if you just state nicely that "I was really hoping you would call yesterday" I'm sure that would be fine.

If, however, it was a few weeks into the relationship and a precedent had already been set, then I probably would understand why they wanted you to call, and if they were upset.

2. Someone who will respect you for who you are, and not what they want you to be.

Does that mean "I know you don't care about football, and that's fine...so I'm going to the game with your hot friend because she loves the Eagles/Bengals/whatever?"

No, that is an example of a passive-aggressive way of getting emotional revenge on somebody for not being what you want them to be; precisely the opposite of what I stated.

3. Someone who will go out on a limb and take an emotional risk for you, and not expect any "payback."

I don't even know WTF this means. An emotional risk? Like saying "I love you" and not expecting her to say it back? That's nice?

Try to understand what this really means. Your example is way off the mark.

4. Someone who will help you grow as a person and gain wisdom and understanding, instead of trying to hold you down in order to control you.

Does this mean you'll let me sit out on the highway with a flat tire because I'm gaining wisdom and growing as a person by dealing with it by myself?

You seem to be trying to spin every example I cite into a negative light. Being emotionally delinquent in a relationship is not an example of "gaining wisdom and understanding."

[tjdee]

151. You're right, that's exactly what I was doing.

I was trying to spin every example, because I was trying to show that what you *think* being nice is, may not be nice. Or, it may not be received as nice behavior.

I think I failed, LOL.

And I really didn't understand #3, so that's why I was way off the mark--I just don't get what you meant by taking emotional risks. If you're risking stuff for someone, I think that's on an entirely different level than nice or not nice, or whatever.

[JohnnyCougar]

157. Emotional risk...

I guess the example that comes to mind is that of giving up some control in the relationship when it is needed, i.e. being able to put yourself in a position of vulnerability temporarily for the overall health of a relationship.

I may not be explaining this well....

Telling someone that you love them, I guess would be the ultimate example (if you really mean it). By saying that to someone, you are trusting them to handle a powerful statement appropriately. You also, in the process, give some emotional control over to them. Make sense?

Maybe I can think of a more explicit example in a couple of minutes.

[raccoon]

209. That, for me, is the main thing I'm looking for,

"4. Someone who will help you grow as a person and gain wisdom and understanding, instead of trying to hold you down in order to control you."

Soundss like a dream man to me too.

[JohnnyCougar]

111. There's no way I'd ever pull that shit.

I'll call you once or twice, and if you don't call me back, I won't call again.

Sometimes you just meet girls where nearly everything is perfect about them except for their own self-image. And then you wonder "what the fuck, why is god putting these kind of people on the planet. They're undatable, but yet they are so goddamned cool!"

You have so much in common with her, there is an obvious spark between the two of you when she's out with you, you get a kiss goodnight, and then....nothing...back she goes into her depressed shell never to be heard from again.

And then you make a heavily sarcastic post on your favorite internet forum, and all hell breaks loose!

;)

[Tallison]

185. Women don't call back for a wide variety of reasons

To claim it's because you're "too nice" sounds at best wishful. :shrug:

[datasuspect]

41. that sentiment is so "miami vice"

now really, women are people just like men . . .

they aren't possessions, slaves, or automatons.

[DS1]

59. Hell, even Feynman figured that out, and he was one of the smartest

dudes on the planet. Act like you don't give a shit, and women flock to you.

Of course, you'll be surrounded by women that don't give a shit about you either, but if that's what you're after - be an asshole.

It works.

[salin]

68. Per JohnnyCougar... this guy must get ALL the dates:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4322745&mesg_id=4322745

bwahahaha

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

84. I can't resist posting a bit of Bill Hicks

http://www.accesspublictv.com/marble_chick.mp3

(Disclaimer: The above song is provided for entertainment purposes only. Monkey See Monkey Do does not endorse the opinions of Mr Hicks (except from when he is correct)).

[Wapsie B]

86. ................

:popcorn:

[raccoon]

87. Here's one possible explanation of this "nice guy syndrome,"

found on deja.com:

Two thoughts:

(1) many of the guys arguing for the "women don't date nice guys (and
therefore I must be a jerk to date women)" claim that a large percentage of
women (ranging from "most" to "all") fall into the category of "superficial
women attracted to jerks."


(2) many of the guys arguing for the "women don't date nice guys" are not
interested in dating any ole "nice girl." They want to date a hot babe. Now,
the hot babe who has got herself all together really *can* land the guy who
is "all that, and a bag of chips." (i.e., a hot guy who has it all
together--mazel tov, you beautiful and together couple!) So, for the guy who
is merely "all that" but not "the bag of chips" (or the "bag of chips," but
not really "all that"), the best shot at getting a hot babe is to go for the
hot-but-messed-up babe. Messed up women *do* often date jerks (that I will
definitely conceed). So, in a nutshell, why do these guys get their undies
all in a wad about the messed up women who date jerks? Because maybe their
only chance with a hot babe is with such types of "damaged goods."

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.marriage/browse_thread/thread/aacf8cf51f8faef6/d19767f6c329b15b?q=%22hot+babe%22&rnum=1#d19767f6c329b15b

[salin]

89. nutshell post

as "in a..."

[I Have A Dream]

121. Yep, that's the ticket! n/t

[Tallison]

189. You're right on.

"Their best shot at getting a hot babe is to go for the hot but messed up babe." This applies to men to whom niceness clearly isn't the priority quality in a relationship.

[bullwinkle428]

88. I think it's time to read this book:

The is NOT a set of instructions on how to be an asshole - it's a plan to allow you to start expressing your wants, needs, and desires in a clear, unambiguous way without feeling shame about it...

[tigereye]

132. well nice isn't supposed to mean "doormat" either

whether it is men or women...

[bullwinkle428]

163. It takes lots of years for some of us to learn that, though! (n/t)

[Syncronaut Seven]

139. Oh man... I read some excerpts, that's pretty pathetic!

We're talking case studies of real door mats here. :rofl:

Sadly, many many women fit the same personality type.

On edit:

Customers who bought this book also bought:

Nice Guys And Players: Becoming the Man Women Want by Rom Wills

The Way Of The Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the
Challenges of Woman, Work, and Sexual Desire by David Deida

The Complete A**hole's Guide to Handling Chicks by Dan Indante

Being a Man in a Woman's World by Dennis W. Neder

How to Succeed With Women by Ron Louis

Understanding Women: The Definitive Guide to Meeting, Dating and Dumping, If Necessary by Romy Miller

[Tallison]

190. The contempt such titles betray is pernicious and chilling n/t

[Tallison]

191. self-delete

double post!

[Blue_Tires]

94. you have discovered a universal truth that will take you far n/t

[salin]

97. Note: see Misunderestimator's note

and take words with grain of salt.

[Misunderestimator]

99. Um....

Grain of salt? m'kay... :shrug:

[salin]

178. point - the post I responded to seemed to exemply your earlier post

of smart guys giving dumb guys this "advice" - ergo the post I responded to ought to be taken with a grain of salt (based on the truism of your earlier post)

[Misunderestimator]

193. Ah... sorry, I got a little confused.

I thought you were saying to take my post with a grain of salt. All good.

[salin]

98. Note: see Misunderestimator's note

and take words with grain of salt.

[jmm]

95. I finally have nice guys figured out

The one common denominator in all of their love failures is themselves. They are needy and insecure which makes them a magnet for women who play head games, who use others, and whom much like themselves are also needy and dealing with inadequacy issues. They come on too strong (ex., claiming they will marry you and trying to name your kids on you first date) or too weak (ex, I could never ask her out for some coffee). They are never assertive and constantly cave in rather than actually making a decision or expressing an opinion so when a relationship fails they get to play martyr because they denied her the opportunity to have a partnership. This lack of a backbone and clingyness drives away any woman worth getting to know.


All nice guys, all the time! At least the ones who put down all women then wonder why they aren't trusted.

Everything makes sense now! :bounce:

[JohnnyCougar]

115. Yup, that's me allright!

:)

No, I was being totally sarcastic...and I'm guessing you were too.

See my other posts.

[Left Is Write]

96. All women, all the time.

Not true, of course, but I have a feeling it would be a waste of time trying to convince you of that today. It sounds like someone hurt you. I'm sorry for that, and hang in there!







edited to add in a missing word.

[JohnnyCougar]

118. Nah...I'm not hurt that bad...

Just frustrated.

There are times when you blame yourself.

And there are times where you don't.

It isn't my fault this time.

Thanks for caring, though. I'll be fine. I do love women! I just wish more of you loved yourselves! What good is it if I tell someone they are beautiful if the refuse to believe it!

[Dangerously Amused]

141. Telling her is good, but...

I think it's really positive that you are asking these questions, and open to discussion. Here are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth:

"What good is it if I tell someone they are beautiful if the refuse to believe it!"

Telling her is good. But many women will refuse to believe it because there are literally millions of other people (media & entertainment industries) telling her she is the farthest thing from beautiful, ever. (Not because it's true, but because they want to sell her stuff.) She gets that message 24/7. So telling her she is beautiful is good, but you might not be heard over the clamor. Showing her is better. And Bill was right, you do that best by practicing active listening.

http://www2.freethought.com


"I do love women! I just wish more of you loved yourselves!"

Awesome attitude! You and Bill are wise beyond your years. Most of the guys here are considerate and very insightful, it's so great to hear them say that they have been married for years and they are still madly in love. I get the feeling that's going to be you and Bill down the road. :)

Good for you guys! And the lucky ladies who will truly appreciate you! :bounce:

[bleedingheart]

101. Bah.......

When I was in college there was a really really nice guy that I had a serious crush on... and he knew it.

He was a gem of a guy and yet he had a "thing" for blondes and especially made up, high-heel wearing women....

So he wooed this one young woman and he tried so hard she eventually let him hang out for a while....

I was broken hearted...I had really hoped he would see that she was just a self serving kind of person...

Not until he had spent a great deal of time and money on her did he figure out what kind of person she was....and then....out of the blue he comes over to visit me.. (meanwhile I was dating someone else)....and you know what...I was offended....I wasn't good enough before...because of my dark brown hair and my disdain for high-heels and make up....but when he got his ass dumped...I was now "acceptable"...

and to top it off he was more pissed at me for rejecting him and not dumping my then boyfriend....and he had the nerve to say..."all you women are the same"....bullshit...

[ET Awful]

104. If you think you have them figured out, wait 5 minutes.

They'll change :evilgrin:

[supernova]

110. You want women to like you?

Be there for us. Consistently.

Listen. Consistently.

Help us out when we say we need it. Consistently.

Be sincere. Consistently. That's especially true with the romantic moves. Don't make us guess what's on your mind; we aren't mind readers. Does he like me? Does he hate me? That doesn't mean you have to be a chatter box (God knows I'm not) just means you have to be accessable to understand.

BTW, this works for women friends as well as lovers. Just different degrees of the same thing.

[JohnnyCougar]

116. Ok...

I'm a pretty sincere person. And pretty transparent with my motives. Especially now. I know dating is pretty fucking confusing. But even if I tell people the truth, it doesn't mean they will believe me.

[NashVegas]

150. Ooh. Consistently

GOOD word.

[JVS]

112. hmm

:popcorn:

[ismnotwasm]

113. You did this on purpose didn't you?

Silly boy.

[JohnnyCougar]

117. C'mon

What good would this lounge be if there weren't the weekly "_____ sucks" thread!

;)

[ismnotwasm]

120. True.

And this one is always good for the little flamey icon.

[Nikia]

122. Not all women (or men) really want a "relationshjp"

I am assuming that you are relatively young. You want to get laid. You want a more permanent relationship too. Why do you want these things? Do you really want them or feel that you are supposed to want them?
You might really want these things. The truth is that some people don't really want them, but think that they are supposed to have someone or that they have failed as a person somehow. Despite not being emotionally ready for a relationship, they feel the need to have an SO to justify their existence. If you atttract/are attracted to depressed women, that might be the case with them. They don't really want the idealized type of relationship, nor is it really beneficial for them or their partner because they need to work on themselves.
You say that they are alright with being your friend, but date jerks what is that all about. They want you as a friend. They need friends who they really get along with and care about. They don't want anything to change because they are getting what they really need from you. If you push for more, they will become suspicious of you and think that maybe that you were never their friend in the first place. I can say, firsthand, that nothing hurts more than a guy who pretended to be your friend, but only wanted to get laid.
Why do they date jerks then? They are supposed to be dating someone (in their minds). They don't really want to date someone who they would feel guilty about leaving. They don't want to date someone who would give more than they can give to a relationship. They don't want to hurt someone who they would really care about. They don't really want a relationship. Their closest relationships are friendships so you should feel honored to be their friend. The draw back is that you aren't getting laid like you wanted.
Of course, not every woman is like that, nor is every man. You are right, they might be off getting educated somewhere or perhaps already are in a relationship. There are bound to be some single women out there that really want a relationship. You just have to determine that before making a move.

[tigereye]

134. that is a very interesting analysis Nikia

[NashVegas]

196. No, There Is One Thing Worse Than a Guy Pretending to Be Your Friend ...

in order to get laid:

A guy who pretends he wants to get laid, in order to be your friend.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

126. AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!

It's always the guys (probably the young, inexperienced, desperately horny ones) starting threads that ask, in effect, "Why do women like rat bastards?"

You never see women starting threads asking, "Why do nice men go for ball-busting psycho-shrews?" And yet, there is a certain type of man who is not happy unless some woman is putting his heart through the shredder and bad-mouthing him to all her friends.

Short answer, guys, once and for all. Men who have trouble attracting women don't really like women. They lust after them, they want someone to laugh at their jokes and to show off to their friends, and they may even want a housekeeper, but they don't really LIKE women.

If they did, they wouldn't ask stupid questions like that. If they really liked women, they wouldn't make idiotic generalizations about women wanting to be mistreated. They wouldn't mistake over-the-top gift buying and flattery and passive-aggressive meekness for being a "nice guy." They wouldn't suggest gross pickup lines.

A man who really likes women and enjoys their company has to fight them off with a stick. It has nothing to do with looks.

Next time you see a nondescript man who you know isn't rich or powerful or famous but who always has women wanting to talk to him, know that you are looking at a man who really likes women.

We can tell, guys, especially when we're over about 22 or so. That passive-aggressive "If I do this favor for you will you love me?" approach doesn't stand a chance against being on the same emotional wavelength.

[JohnnyCougar]

129. Read this whole thread.

Especially posts #107 and #114

Then reconsider. I'm not even close to what you describe.

[GirlinContempt]

159. Real nice guys

don't generally go around saying "omgz lookit me I'm such a nice guy no girlz like me wtf"

[JohnnyCougar]

160. I never said no girls like me.

Most girls do.

They only stop trusting me once I start liking them back.

And the content of this thread goes WAY beond what you just said.

[NashVegas]

197. Ahhhhhh

"They only stop trusting me once I start liking them back."

That's part of your problem. Maybe *you* don't trust so well, either.

When these women meet you and see that you're not interested in a relationship with them, they're going to have a totally different attitude towards you than a woman who you allow to see, up front, that you're interested in them sexually.

They're going to be relaxed, and fun .. and most importantly - sexually indifferent. Are you only 'liking them back' AFTER seeing they are indifferent? Maybe you should consider allowing yourself to become attracted to someone who shows you they're not indifferent. Maybe you should consider taking the chance of letting them know earlier on, that you aren't indifferent.

[JohnnyCougar]

198. Nah, but this last girl I let her know right away.

I told myself I'm not going to wait around at all.

I'm really not that bent out of shape over this. I'm not mad at this girl, like so many people on this thread assume. I really do not feel rejected or hurt. I'm just more befuddled. Here is this beautiful, wonderful girl that I had so much fun with on two dates. We had so much in common, and I've never felt more comfortable around someone right away.

So she kisses me goodnight, and we are supposed to hang out on the weekend. I don't hear from her, and then I get a call: "I'm sorry I haven't called, I'm depressed and I have all these bills to pay...I'll call you eventually."

Well, maybe it's better if she has problems to solve them before getting into a relationship. In fact I know it is. So I guess I have nothing to be frustrated about, except for good people being depressed. Maybe I'm just interpreting her prudence as lack of trust.

Ah well. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be. And maybe she will call me back sometime. And maybe I'll find another girl I'm equally impressed with in another month, only without depression issues.

[Nikia]

199. Maybe, she is really stressed out w/ the money

Some people worry a lot about money. Sometimes it has to do with how things were in the past but sometimes the threat is really real. Perhaps, she is facing harassing phone calls by creditors. Perhaps, if she is in college, she is facing being kicked out of school because she can't pay it. Perhaps she is facing having her utilites cut off. Perhaps she is facing not having enough to eat or filling a prescription. Perhpas even if it isn't that bad, it has been drilled into her head that if she cna't pay her bills on time, that she is a bad person.
While the stress of the money, might alone be why she doesn't want to see you, perhaps dating is impractical to her because of financial reasons. If you split the restaurant bill or she pays her own movie admission/cover charge, she might not have enough money to afford to go out to the places you want to go or as often as you want. Even if you pay for things, she might feel the need to spend more money on clothes , make up, or birth control other things if she is going to be dating. She might even fear adding one more person to her Christmas list for financial reasons.
Maybe you are in a better financial position than her or have someone to fall back on. Maybe even if you aren't, you don't have as many negative feelings about lack of money. Regardless, try to be empathetic to her financial worries.

[JohnnyCougar]

203. I know she is stressed out because of money.

But I am pretty broke, too. I don't have to spend money to have fun, though. I dunno. Maybe I should have emphasized that more when talking to her. It just frustrates me...we live fairly close together, and she talked about riding her bike over to see me all the time, etc...

I haven't heard from her in two weeks, though, so I'm not going to call her anymore. I don't want to harass her or stalk her, so I'm just going to forget about this and move on. If she wants to talk to me, she will call. I have already made my intentions clear.

[Nikia]

204. I don't think that it would be stalking to call her one more time

If perhaps she misunderstood and thought that she'd have to be shelling out money to maintain a relationship. You don't even have to ask her out (or you could if the conversation seems to go well). Just call and ask how she is doing. If she doesn't want to speak to you again or see you, she will probably make that clear.
If things seem to go well and you ask her out again, make sure that it is a no cost activity.
I just wouldn't want you both to miss out on something good because of a misunderstanding. The worst that could happen from the phone call would be that you would get rejected if you wouldn't be seeing her anyway.

[NashVegas]

200. Hmmm

Okay. Either she's lying, or, and this is only a possibility, she ain't ready for that "magic" third date. Ya know?

[uniden]

133. yeah

looks, age, size, or financial status has nothing to do with relationships. It's all about emotions. Are you serious?

[tjdee]

137. For women, OH yes.

I think this is something straight men desperately need to learn.

Women aren't stupid, they have eyes. They care about financial status,etc. But all of those things are trumped by genuine affection.
A feeling that a guy is interested in YOU, not that they figured they'd ask some girls out today, and you're #7. A feeling that he's not just horny.

I know a couple... the guy is short, doesn't have much money, is no Jude Law. He asked her out, she said no. But you know what? He was still nice to her. Talked to her. Listened to her. Brought her coffee. With no strings attached. A few weeks later, mentioned that he was still interested. She said no again. He shrugged it off, the cycle continued.

They got married last year.

Some men don't want to work that hard, they'd rather bitch about the jerks that get all the women. Well...

[uniden]

140. and she is ...

Angelina Jolie? Getting a woman is not hard, eventually most will go out with someone; the problem is finding the "right one."
You do whatever is needed to get that particular person. Each one has it's own "price."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

142. Maybe your problem is that you think you deserve Angelina Jolie

even though you're not Brad Pitt, so you go after the superficially pretty types (the gilded shells) ignoring women with the hidden solid gold cores.

[uniden]

145. make her the Angelina Jolie

of thinking. The point is still the same: each person wants something different and aims for the best one, but eventually will settle down for what he or she can get.

[tjdee]

156. The idea of settling makes me want to throw up.

I'd agree with you that most people do that. And it's disgusting.

[smirkymonkey]

162. I agree - I would rather be alone than settle.

And I would most definitely rather be alone than be with someone who thinks they have "settled" with me.

[Tallison]

188. Better to be alone than to wish you were

Those who disagree probably just hate their own company. :shrug:

[tjdee]

143. For sure.

My point was just that women don't care *that much* about age, money,etc. etc. They don't. Those things are pluses or minuses in one's favor, but not the main criteria by which they choose partners. I don't think that's how men choose partners either (well, except for the looks thing. Men are all about looks).

And of course the problem is finding the right one--but the OP wasn't really addressing that.

[uniden]

147. age, money, etc.

First, "that much" has to be quantified, and it can't since it means different things to different women. One that works at Walmart might think that the mailman is financially stable, when a top model is shooting for a billionaire. Also, it varies on the intentions and age. A 18 year old girl might go for the boy band type, when a 28 year old looking to settle down "will not mind" a balding guy with a gut, but that has his own business.

Those pluses and minuses all add up and if the score if enough you got her, or him. Man are mostly about looks, as you said, but if you are rich and aren't gross (sometimes even if you are), you can get plenty of women.

[tjdee]

155. Yes, and no.

I don't think we're completely disagreeing.

I do think the pluses and minuses add up. And you're right that intentions are different.

I just think women are more likely to look at the totality of a guy (obviously, she can't see this in a loud, dimly lit bar)--he may be eh, not so rich, but he makes her feel special, makes her laugh, his hair falls in a cute way, etc. Because IMO,women care more about how someone makes her *feel*. Which is why sometimes women are accused of trying to "change" or "fix" a man. The sort of feeling that he'd be perfect if he just cut his beard off, got a different job, etc.

Men, on the other hand, in my humblest of opinions, make a judgment on "hotness", and go from there. A man is more likely to hang on to a dummy if she's hot than a woman is, again, in my humblest of opinions.

[fudge stripe cookays]

195. It?

That one word said volumes.

Perhaps you meant "Each one has HER own price." But your Freudian slip said lots about how you view women. Just things to you, huh?

[Tallison]

187. Sounds like you speak for yourself

Your incredulousness at the prospect is frightening.

[tigereye]

136. ding ding ding

you nailed it LL

"Next time you see a nondescript man who you know isn't rich or powerful or famous but who always has women wanting to talk to him, know that you are looking at a man who really likes women."

[Ellen Forradalom]

138. Nice isn't always nice

Sometimes it's base manipulation and self-pity.

If you're obsequeious, you want something from us. Just say what it is.
If you're a doormat, we don't know who are you are. Show us.
If you don't get the response you wanted to your gestures and react poorly, we know we were right, and move on.

[Burma Jones]

144. You must be a Young, Young man

Once women stop trying to piss off their Fathers, they take very well to good hearted and kind men......

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

146. Ahh - misogeny. Gotta love it!

:thumbsup:



Asthmaticeog

[Seabiscuit]

149. Women are just people who aren't hung up about

the size of the thingy between their legs.

[uniden]

152. are they hung up

about what's hanging up between the guy's legs though? ;)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

154. Not as much as guys like to think

When women discuss men's physical attributes, they're more likely to talk about the wicked glints in his eyes or a cute butt.

[BikeWriter]

164. Never, ever believe you understand a woman.

[flvegan]

165. It scares me when you and I agree so completely on something.

I'm just sayin'...

[BikeWriter]

166. My last wife worshipped the ground I walked on for 15 years...

I was her Knight in shining armor. Her face would beam and look all funny like when she'd tell me I was her forever love and nothing would ever come between us. One day she told me she'd quit loving me and she left. Nope, I'll never say I understand a woman.

[flvegan]

167. Was yours

pregnant with another man's child at the time?

Mine was. Cheers, bro. I hear you.

I don't understand them, but I love them anyway. I don't hold my grudge against my ex against my futures, either.

[BikeWriter]

168. Sorry to hear that. We can't live with them, can't live without them.

[flvegan]

169. Not only can't, but wouldn't want to.

Can't let the negative override the positive, eh?

Besides, I'm thrilled to death that things turned out this way. She's happy, and so am I.

Besides...were things different, I might not be here to give you shit, and vice-versa.

[BikeWriter]

170. I'm glad you're both happy out of it.

[Blue_Tires]

171. REFERENCE NOTE: for more truth, go here:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

[Lydia Leftcoast]

175. Yes, that is right on the mark

:thumbsup:

[Blue_Tires]

176. it has certainly changed my philosophies on women

up until this point in my life, the way i had been doing things in the past was as effective as: :banghead:

[JohnnyCougar]

177. What a steaming pile of crap.

Obviously any trustworthy guy is really just a passive-aggressive, self-centered jerk, right?

Either that or some sort of desperate nerd who is not honest with women about their true feelings.

This thread is about honesty and truth, not being "nice" as you define it. I don't think that being "nice" like that is going to get me any women, nor do I think that because I am "nice" that women are obliged to love me and respect me. I'm not even "nice." I am truthful. If I like someone, I tell them. If I don't, I tell them.

I don't think girls are "heartless bitches" either if they don't want to go out with me. And I don't think any of them have "injured" me. Most of them have brought me tons of joy. If they hadn't, I wouldn't have been hanging around them. And I still talk to almost all of them.

What if honest guys just attract girls with low self esteem because they are the only people that are really genuine to them? I don't go after girls that I think are depressed, or have low self esteem or whatever. I know they are impossible to date. So when I find out that they are, it sucks, especially if I have grown to like them. Maybe I have just hit a rough patch in the road lately, but the last few girls I have gotten involved with had big self esteem issues. I didn't know that when I started dating them. But I found out later. They were all cute, smart, creative girls. I couldn't find much wrong with them the first time I saw them. But then later I find out that they are depressed and have had trouble relating to men in the past.

Maybe I'm just not good enough at sniffing out girls with low self esteems right away. It's not like I test them by being mean to them and seeing how they react.

I dunno. I'm confident my luck will change, but I am wondering when. The truth is, I WANT a girl with high standards, because I think I can live up to them. The but obviously, they need to have high standards for themselves for it to work out. I'm just not finding them. I have high standards for myself. I have a lot of assets. I am highly intelligent. I am good looking. I am a leader. People look up to me, and look to me for support. I am confident. I am trustworthy. I am going somewhere with my life, and getting my PhD. I stick up for myself, and others that I care about. I am one of the funniest people I know, and I can make pretty much anyone laugh, even if they are in a bad mood. I play guitar very well. I am probably about 5 people's best friend.

Maybe I just hang out with the wrong crowd of people. I dunno. I select girls that have something going for them. But the fact is, even people that seem to have a lot going for them can hold themselves in low regard. It makes no sense. Some girls would be so great if they just saw the good in their souls. But if they don't, there's nothing I can do about it, I guess.

But you go on a couple of dates and have the time of your life with someone, and a kiss goodnight is the last you ever hear of a person until a week later, they leave a message "Sorry I haven't been calling you lately, I'm just depressed and broke, and I have all these bills to pay...I'll call you eventually." Actually, I'm glad she was honest right away. What a great girl, though. She had no reason to be depressed. I guess depression doesn't follow logic.

Oh well, better luck next time.

[uniden]

194. being nice

a lot of times is associated with not being assertive or "having balls." You are expected to have them! You can have those qualities and not be a jerk.

[Blue_Tires]

205. i definitely feel what you're saying

when i was a little younger and back in college (and grad school)...i had (and still continue to have from time to time) many of the difficulties you can relate to...

eh...maybe that is the reason why i became so involved in the whole 'internet dating' thing so many years ago....at least that helps weed out the undesirables...but still i have not been truly happy in my love life for a long time now...

[Tallison]

186. Oh my God, what a spot-on commentary

:thumbsup:

Thanks for the link!

[HEyHEY]

184. Can you blame them?

[hobo_baggins]

202. I have women figured out more than anyone...listen up, this is important..

I have men figured out too...

They're all different, no sense listening to any advice anyone would ever give you. Because taking peoples advice is just going against who you really are..

Just be yourself. If the girl or guy doesn't like and accept that, fuck em, move on, and quit bitching that nobody likes you, because eventually you'll find someone that accepts you for who you are, or you won't...who cares? Alone, not alone, just quit sweatin it and find a hobby.

[MissMillie]

208. I like a nice guy...

but he has to be genuinely nice. Sometimes too much seems phoney.

[LeftyMom]

211. Some of us like nice guys

:shrug:

[JackDragna]

216. Women are very simple. Here's how to figure them out.

Like all humans, women are insane. You can treat them well one minute, but the next they hate you because they could tell you could see another woman in your peripheral vision while daring to stand up and generally gaze around a restaurant/theater/sports area/rock concert. So, here's the best way of getting along with one.

1. Put a bucket on your head.
2. Yell "I need bacon!"
3. Obtain bacon.

Voila.

[pdx_prog]

218. Most want an equal....

It's hard to respect someone that constantly kisses your ass...:)