Where should I move?

[StellaBlue]

I am a native Texan who lived in Europe (and liked it) for four years. I am about to embark on an MLIS to become an academic librarian. After I have completed this, I will be willing and able to relocate. The only place in Texas I would consider living is Austin.

I don't like tons and tons of snow, as I am not used to it, but I figure I could handle it in a big city where I won't have a driveway to shovel, anyway!

I like museums, good theater, live music, etc.

I also like being able to get out and experience nature regularly - hiking, swimming, parks, etc.

I want to be surrounded, as in Europe, by people whose assumption is that their fellow citizens are secular, liberal, and appreciative of both science and the arts. I am so tired of people assuming that I am a Protestant Christian, a W-lover, and a regular abuser of hairspray.

Where should I move?

[hippywife]

1. We want to move to Oregon.

It sounds like it has all the things you are looking for. But it's just a pipedream for us. It will never happen since we are too tied down where we are. I wish you luck finding a place that feels right for you.

[Omphaloskepsis]

3. Yeah, when I was reading that I was thinking of Portland..

[JanMichael]

16. Portland is not for everyone. I despise it. Zombywoof despises it

almost as much as I do--probably my hatred is exceeded by his because I actually lived there.

That said: I love Powell's Bookstore-

[StellaBlue]

19. What's to hate about it?

[JanMichael]

21. I replied to you--it's below!

:)

[JanMichael]

20. I should probably send you a PM, this ALWAYS starts a flamewar

OK...here goes...by the way, when the Portlanders show up to tell me what a jackass I am...well...I am just not in the mood to play "what's wrong with the I-5 Corridor through Oregon" today.

First of all....it's white. It's the whitest place I have ever lived in, and I was born in the South in the sixties.

The elitest self satisfied white people there cannot see the inherent racism of the place...it's subtle...and it's uglier than anything I have seen in the past few years in the South.

The aforementioned white people sit in coffeeshops and talk about how awful the rest of the country is...and how cool they are. They plan their beer trips to the breweries for the evening...to go hang out with more white people.

The "culture" seems cool...and yes, there are Asians there....Asians that are assimilating rapidly into the Coffeehouse Cool White Culture.

As far as that "culture" is concerned....it is so damned whitebread...there is nothing about the place that's original, or refreshing...not a thing. Think all those white kids listening to the Trustafarian Folk Singers that are popular today....

And, lastly:

The weather SUCKS. I mean, SUCKS. It rains. Yet, it's a dull, nagging rain...the kind that makes you feel mildewed, and slightly damp all the freaking time. No thunder...nothing exciting...just that goddamned drip drip drip ALL THE TIME. Except for the 3 weeks in summer.

[northzax]

23. well, as a native

I'm with you on everything except the rain (I love the weather)

I love to go home and visit Portland. I could never live there again without some major changes, either in me or in Portland. It is a small, provincial town, where the dominant social more does not accept any deviations from the norm. the norm just happens to be Northwest alt-hip-liberal.

The people I know who love Portland moved to Portland as adults, or young adults. An example for you, of the 52 people I graduate high school with in Portland, all but three left the state for college (we all went to college) a total of four live in Portland or surrounding environs today. There are more in DC/Baltimore or LA/OC or Chicago than Portland. People who grew up there and leave, who can then choose to live anywhere, don't go back, except at Christmas.

I suggest Boston. or Minneapolis. or Seattle, or San Francisco, or LA instead. And, of course, I'm partial to DC.

[JanMichael]

24. I love DC

I would move to that town in a minute!

The NW alt-hip-liberals wore me out...they are just as bad at repeating their self perpetuated myths as conservatives are...until they become mantras.

I can't stand that zoned out, tuned out attitude in anyone--

[EFerrari]

52. We got to see DC once when invited out there to keynote.

I couldn't believe how parklike some parts of it were. Beautiful.

But, all the streets have the same names. What IS THAT ABOUT? :mad:

[northzax]

55. what? that's simply not true

DC has the single greatest nomenclature of any city ever.

First off, most of the city if a grid.
numbers go north-south, counting outwards from North and South Capitol Street.
East-West streets are letters, starting with C, and not including J. counting outwards from the Mall and East Capitol Street. When the letters are gone, they start with two syllable words in alphabetical order. then trees and bushes, also in alphabetical order. Smaller streets are named after Presidents.

Diagonals are all named after states.

it's not really that tough. :)

[EFerrari]

57. But, it's simple!

:rofl:

[StellaBlue]

28. Yeah,,,

after four years living in the UK, I am not too hip to the constant, dreary, overcast/drizzling thing. I like a good thunderstorm - if it's gonna rain, RAIN! None of this drizzly shit.

haha

[EFerrari]

2. I would say come out to San Francisco except for the hairspray thing

:hi:

[salin]

6. even down on the penninsula or up in Marin

area is wonderful (though I agree about the hairspray thing...)

I miss the area tremendously.

[EFerrari]

7. Berkeley is great. Lots of libraries there.

I missed it too, when I was an expat in 2000.

[mtowngman]

4. Moorestown, N.J.

We're centrally located between N.Y. and Philly and have pretty much all that you're looking for, except maybe a lot of snow in bad winters. Recently voted best place in U.S.A. to live by CNN and Money magazine, for what that's worth. We'd love to have you. (Blue State)

[StellaBlue]

5. I love SF ... but...

I don't think I could ever afford to live there as a youngish, single person with no dual-income from an SO.

[EFerrari]

8. You'd be surprised. And looks like rents are going down. n/t

[StellaBlue]

9. ooh! ooh!

Can I get something about 500sq ft for less than $1500 a month?!

ha

And when exactly is it scheduled to fall into the sea?

[EFerrari]

11. Yes! And, especially if you come out to the tsumani zone.

When we moved here, 600 sq ft, 1 bdrm, $975. And that was only 2 years ago -- not say, 10.

[Greyhound]

10. Forget the south, the southwest, the mid-west, and SoCal,

nobody reads there and you will hurt yourself slapping you head every day.

[EFerrari]

12. Well, college towns are different, though. The beach towns

west and south of L.A. are great. Big starving artist colonies there AND libraries. But, then you have the now winger L.A. Times. The Weekly rocks, though.

[Greyhound]

14. I'm sorry, I must have mis-understood you.

Did you mean to imply that just because one is a student at University, that one reads? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

17. LOL! No, I know better.

I taught Freshman Engllish.

:rofl:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

25. I live in Minneapolis, in the midwest. We read here. A lot.

[Left Is Write]

40. Thank you.

Minneapolis is a wonderful city.

Too cold for StellaBlue, though, I think.

[Cats Against Frist]

26. Madison, WI and Iowa City, IA

Are two of the most liberal, wonderful places in America. They also have, as opposed to some of the bigger liberal cities, a really great standard of living. Things aren't too expensive, you don't have to put your kid in a private school, very safe, it's not crowded, etc.

I split my time between Seattle and a very small town outside of Iowa City, and I'm just as happy, either place. Seattle has more stuff going on, but in Seattle, I live in a rented studio apartment and take the bus to the co-op. In Iowa, I live in my own Victorian house, with an acre of yard, and drive my neat little car to the co-op. I have great, intelligent, liberal friends in both places.

Though, I will add that the only reason that I think I'm as well-adjusted in both places is because I'm getting old, and I have a child. If I needed to be at a hap-hap-happening place, as I did in my youth, Iowa City wouldn't quite cut it.

[EFerrari]

30. I visited Milwaukee once. It seemed like a great place to live

no matter what your age or familial configuration. Is that true?

[Cats Against Frist]

42. I've never been to Millwaukee, but I hear it's a nice place.

Minneapolis, as another poster said, is a good book-reading place, too.

[Greyhound]

38. I'm glad to hear that, I spent almost 3 weeks in Iowa city during one of

the road trips of my youth and found it to be one of the nicest places in what was America. I actually stopped in to get some sleep before going on to NY, but the people were so friendly (and the food was so good) I just stayed. Oddly enough the subject of reading never came up.

[Cats Against Frist]

41. You HAVE to be joking

Iowa City is the home of the Iowa Writers' Workshop. There are usually 2-3 fiction and poetry readings, every week. Famous writers live here, and come to visit, often. John Ashbery was in my friend's living room! This town is all about books...

:hi:

[greatauntoftriplets]

36. Chicagoans read a lot, too.

Where did you come by the information that Midwesterners never read?

:wtf:

[Greyhound]

37. I lived there before coming here and you could've fooled me.

Never been around so many knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathers, in my life.

[greatauntoftriplets]

48. Had you visited a bookstore or library while you lived here....

you would have learned differently.

[Greyhound]

53. Of course. I was referring to those I met elsewhere. n/t

[radwriter0555]

13. San Francisco...

perfect town.

[Greyhound]

15. It really is. Just too bad it's beyond the reach of most everybody. n/t

[EFerrari]

18. Depends what you want? Our beach hood is working people,

students and artists. Maybe in five years, it will be gentrified but it's not right now. :)

[Greyhound]

22. What's a condo go for in your 'hood'? n/t

[EFerrari]

29. 350 and up but, there are a lot of fixers in the neighborhood.

If you buy as is, you can do better. It's still crazy as hell. My hubby needs to live here or I would have prefered an actual HOUSE with a GARDEN ANYWHERE! lol

But, there are lots of rentals here still, under market and once you establish residency, you are in a good position with significant tenant protection. Landlord and tenants seem to be doing much better at working things out lately. The level of animosity is at an all time low.

[Greyhound]

31. Oh well let me pack up & go. Only $300+K? The interest only payment on

a fixer upper is going to run $1500 - $2000 or more. Maybe they pay more up north.
I am happy that you're happy but that's still outrageous.

[EFerrari]

32. It's insane, I agree. We don't pay interest only and I think our rate

is fixed at 5% -- but it could be 6%.

As I said, it depends what you want. :) I'd have been happy to rent forever and could have, I suppose. My family "does" real estate and so, we bought this place. I myself don't much care. My kids don't need it, they're doing great on their own.

Husband's work is here, that's not negotiable. :)

[Greyhound]

33. In case it didn't come through, I'm just jealous.

[EFerrari]

45. Oh, dear! It all evens out. When Doug was sick and I couldn't get

care for him, we were functionally homeless for a few years because I sold everything but my toenail clippings just to keep everything on.

Yikes.

lol

Maybe I'm deaf today. Family coming in for T-Day, and (can I say this?), I love them to death but would rather listen to Bush!

:rofl:

[NMDemDist2]

27. i'd vote Portland, SF or Seattle (in that order) also consider Santa Fe NM

if you can find work there....

Hell even Sacramento CA has a pretty cool downtown

[WCGreen]

34. Cleveland.....

The winters come in spurts.... The summers are tolerable... Spring and fall are absolutely sumptious...

It is extremely easy to get around...

We have great museums... Great music... Cost of Living is very very reasonable... Ethnic diversity...

One of the best library systems in the country...

And, we have 60 miles of wooded parkland surrounding the whole city... Les than have an hour away from anywhere in the whole country...

Cedar Point is an hour away...

Good universities...

Good, strong communities...

And a lot of shopping....

And, Dennis Kucinich is my congressman....

[StellaBlue]

35. that last bit about sold me :)

I met someone at a journalism conference a few years ago from Cleveland... a bunch of us were sitting around one evening, talking about what we liked and didn't like about where we were from... and the woman from Cleveland surprised us all by being the MOST excited about her town. I mean... whodathunkit, right? Cleveland? haha

And this was a very liberal type of woman, too! So that made me think... :)

[Corgigal]

43. well if the snow in Cleveland doesn't scare you

You might also want to look into Syracuse New York. Big college, lots of concerts and housing cost isn't bad. I lived there in the 1980's and always had things to do. Not to mention you can hop the Amtrak in be in NYC by the afternoon.

[Guy Fawkes]

39. New York...

Madison, Wi.
San Fransisco, Ca.
Chicago, Il.

[maveric]

44. San Diego Baby! We need more dems/libs here.

You wont be dissapointed at all. We've got the great weather, museums, music, theater, pro sports, great beaches, hiking and running trails all over, did I mention the great weather? We are near Mexico, the mountains, where it snows, national forests, desert...
Did I mention the great weather?

[EFerrari]

46. And a beau-ti-ful train station!

Forget OH, let's take back San Diego!

(Did we ever have it?)

Just be careful for lions and tigers and bears. :)

[maveric]

47. We will take it back. If we ever had it.

San Diego = Best place to live in the lower 48.

[EFerrari]

49. Fight cha for the title. I like this place:

[maveric]

50. Me too and am considering moving up there.

For a while at least.

[EFerrari]

51. Wait -- I thought we were being called to SD?

:silly:

This is a good time to come up. Rents are down, jobs up.

And the water is fine. 73 today. All the surfers are lovin it. :)

[Onlooker]

54. Boston

If you like Europe, move to Boston or one of the surrounding towns. Boston is considered the most European of American cities. Though it's not perfect here, it's very liberal, civilized, and cultured. Any of the surrounding towns -- such as Jamaica Plain, Arlington, Somerville, Brookline, and Cambridge are also very nice (and a very short distance from downtown Boston). Boston is a very liveable city with many beautiful areas, and there are beautiful surrounding areas -- parks, ocean, historic towns, etc. It's harder to make friends in New England than elsewhere, but once you have a job or get involved in some organizations, you'll have no problem.

[northzax]

56. actually, DC is the most European City in the US

classical architecture and no skyscrapers, and it was designed to look like Paris. It is tres continental. oh, and we have a lot of real europeans!

[Onlooker]

58. Do a search on Google

If you search for "most european of American cities" (with quotes) on Google, it looks like Boston, San Francisco, and New Orleans come up most frequently. But, I do agree that DC has some sections that are as reminiscient of London as any other city.

[StellaBlue]

59. But NOLA has been obliterated

as much by gentrification, Disneyfication, Halliburton, etc. as by Katrina. That's my prophecy. :(