Where does the soul go when we die?

[Swede]

I just can't believe all this is for nothing.

[caledesi]

1. I wonder the same thing. I wish one of our super-smart members

address this. It's been haunting me a long time.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

14. What we call soul is merely a chemical reaction, which is

sustained by a very complex energy-creating device, our body.

If you assume there is some inherent energy in a soul, then it must go somewhere, because our current understanding says that energy may neither be created nor destroyed.

And if it is there, why can't we see it?

Okay, we could not see cells until we had microscopes. But they exist.
We did not notice X-rays until we had film sensitive enough to see it. They exist.
We could not see atoms until we had electron microscopes. They exist.
We could not see parts of atoms such as electrons, neutrons, gluons, quarks, neuclei, and protons until we had cyclotrons.

So we can't see souls? Who cares? We will, when our science catches up to it.

Can't see gravity either, can you? How about radio waves? Light particles? Sound waves? Yet practically everyone agrees these exist.

Assume heaven is here among us, and so is hell. Just here, but at a different energy level than our crappy human detectors can see, hear, taste, or feel. Think about that, it might make you feel better.

[Swede]

We cannot see the strings of string theory.

And we will never see them.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

26. Cant say that. We have always thought that what we could

not see was beyond our reach, and a few inventions or ideas later, there it was.

Such is science.

[Swede]

28. Then there is the 11 dimensional space of string theory.

The human mind cannot even understand that,let alone see it.

[Dookus]

2. First...

demonstrate the existence of a soul. Then we can have something to talk about.

[Swede]

4. That is the age old question.

So it's all over when it's over.

[Dookus]

8. Personally, that's what I believe.

You could just as easily ask where was my soul before I was born. I don't think it existed then, and I don't think it'll exist after I die.

People act as if that's a horribly depressing view of life, but I don't recall being terribly unhappy prior to my birth.

[AlienGirl]

3. Into a new body

Reincarnation, dude. But it could still be all for nothing--I mean, what if you have a miserable life, and you die, and have another miserable life? Or you're still so haunted by things from your last life that you can't sleep? Just cause you know what happens after death doesn't mean there's any Reason to it.

Tucker

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Since we are nothing but energy truly, an energy left after we die

exists in the spaces where we spread it.

[BlueJazz]

6. Speaking for myself and also being an Atheist.........

The real Joy is just the ride to the end.
I don't feel humans are important enough to expect anything else.....
But it's a damn-sure wonderful ride!

[caledesi]

12. RL, "The Journey is the Reward?" nt

[Swede]

16. Life is a journey and a destination.

66. hijack of sorts

http://photoarts.com/journal/SABA/eldon/eldonintro.html

http://www.daneldon.org/

[BlueJazz]

17. That's a nice way to put it.

.

[truthspeaker]

70. seconded

That's what I feel too.

[IronLionZion]

7. Progressive souls go to Heaven

Bush's soul will rot in hell for a long time. Oh and the religous nuts who want to kill gays will be there. The fascists who want to execute protesters will be there too.

[Swede]

9. Nietze said god is dead,so all is permitted.

I can't believe that.

[short bus president]

10. They don’t go to heaven where the angels fly

They go down to the lake of fire and fry
Won’t see them again till the fourth of july.

;-)

[geniph]

71. I love that song

[Runesong]

11. Hopefully, elsewhere.

[AlienGirl]

13. Elsewhere'd be nice

But everyone I know just seems to cycle around this mud-ball.

Tucker

[DulceDecorum]

15. The soul goes

to a place where there are NO taxes.
O8)

But perhaps you would feel better
if you read the works of Douglas Adams.
Start with the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
There are at least 42 good reasons to read that book.

[AlienGirl]

18. No taxes?

I know of one soul that went to a place where there was Infinite Chocolate. And another that went somewhere with a nice stable left-wing government. But both places have taxes..

Tucker

[leftofthedial]

19. it's not for nothing

it's for right now

[Swede]

22. Good atheists are better people than good believers?

Believers do it to get to heaven,athiests do it because it's right. That's another thing I can not believe.

[Dirk39]

20. It goes shopping and doesn't come back...

like Warhol said:-)
Believing in god after what happened to human beings during the last 100 years, is blasphemy. I guess it was Leibniz, who started a "theodizee" after an earthquake and got into a serious crisis... But this was just an earthquake.
Although I'm not an "atheist", I'm not a theist at all... And somehow I have far more respect for the christian and other religious traditions than when I was young. But I'm not religious at all. Believing in live after death is just selfishness to an extent that surpasses the self.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[AlienGirl]

23. Belief in an afterlife doesn't require belief in a deity

And belief in a deity doesn't require that the deity be benevolent...

Tucker

[Dirk39]

30. You're right...

so there's no god, no prove for any kind of heaven, while there's an emperical proof for hell, at least on earth. Jesus, save me!

So there's a malevolent deity and no afterlive. Seems pretty realistic:-)
Dirk

[AlienGirl]

32. Or

Or no deity and reincarnation, or competing deities and reincarnation...

Tucker

[VOX]

To a garage in Buffalo.

If you're bad. :evilgrin:

[jus_the_facts]

21. unless you're dead...there is no answer....

....this is the only life we know..in the here and now...I think it's a waste of time to dwell on the next life if there is such...when there's so much that needs pondering in the here and now....the present is in dire need of more thought....just my opinion.

[eek]

36. great pernt, JTF! Me? I think it is sorta like energy stew

I just think that everything is everything and all energy (or whatever you want to call it) all energy, all consciousness all unconsciousness, all subconsciousness, heat, chlorophyll, music air time etc etc etc all sorta swirl and mix and clump and form and unclump .

I don't exactly believe our soul reincarnates - not like I would come back as a cat or a cockroach with the awareness that I used to be a human called eek.

Maybe when we like a person a place a thing an animal and so on is because it has a bit of what was once your "soul" at another time.


I love London. When I am there it is really the only time I feel good, settled, home.

I also have some sort of 'thing" about WW2. Not the military aspects rather the human and homefront stuff.

Anyway, this dude with an ability to pick up on such things suggested that I had been killed in the Blitz. maybe so . maybe there's enough of my old "soul" splattered around there and when I'm in London I feel more complete.


Or you just die and that's it.
Or you go to heaven with a halo and a harp or 'the other place" as Billy the Shake called it.

WTF do we know? SO like JTF said, lets worry about now. The not now stuff will happen anyway so why use up time now worrying about the other?

Right. i'll STFU now.

[Dirk39]

24. The strongest argument against any kind of existence after...

our physical death is that some people are nothing of what they were before, while they're still alive. It's just an empirical argument, not a metaphysical one, but it's hard to believe, that just half of their soul has left them going wherever it might go.
The question if there is live before death is far more interesting for me.
Dirk

[seventhson]

25. Back to the Source

You are a part of the source - there from the beginning --

All that exists has always existed and will always exist

we can only see the NOW as human beings...

But once our soul is free of its physical earthly and mortal shell...

and faces the consciousness of its own universality...

and its deeds and misdeeds...

and accepts the knowledge of its unity with the ONE...

then it goes where it needs to go...

to keep enjoying the scenery and the bliss...

and the dreams



I suggest you read Jung, the Tibetan book of the dead, the Vedas, and Meher Baba, among others.

Meher Baba is really wonderful!

[Swede]

31. I've had a lot of close relatives die lately,so I guess I'm feeling my own

mortality.

[seventhson]

52. I believe that all souls are immortal

but all material configurations of matter are temporal.

But, hell, Einstein teaches that time is relative.

So I assume that even our existence is relative.

I guess it all depends on: compared to what?

[MrSlayer]

27. Nowhere.

You die and that's it.

[AlienGirl]

29. Would that it were so

It'd simplify life for quite a lot of people...

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

33. It sure would...

but.. I think we are pretty sure reincarnation is the answer. ;-)

[AlienGirl]

34. Yeah

After a while it just makes sense. There's enough evidence hanging around out there to choke a horse...

(OK, OK, I won't start this again! :P )

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

37. LOL

You already started. :P

[Reini]

40. Agreed

I agree with the reincarnation theory... there is quite a lot of evidence...

[AlienGirl]

41. Hi Reini!

:hi:

Now you can help Dys and me threadjack!

Tucker

[Reini]

45. Hi!

:hi:

Lol. Sounds like fun!


Reini

[AlienGirl]

47. Oh, it is, it is!

This is a fun place to be. :bounce:

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

42. This could make..

for some really bad jokes...

[AlienGirl]

43. "Could"?

Or..."WILL"? :P

Tucker

[Reini]

46. Maybe...

...it will. *manaical laughter* :P

Reini

[AlienGirl]

48. Don't make me find that rabbit

...with the pancake and the grenade! :P

Tucker

[Reini]

51. Oh no....

...must find a good escape from the rabbit!

Reini

[Dirk39]

35. So we better take back this hijacked world, while we're alive...

'cause if not, we live and that's not "it".
Dirk

[cosmicdot]

38. kinda close to that "portal" when my mom passed

nurse was closing down ... the doctor had been called to sign the death certificate ... yet, Mama suddenly opened her eyes to mouth "I love you" to Daddy and the 4 children who had drawn close to her bed side ... the really strange thing was that her hazel eyes were a shimmering blue ...

I felt that, through that experience, I was close to 'something'.

[nini]

76. I had the same kind of sensation as my Dad was dying..

it was absolutely overwhelming and unless you have been through that and felt it you could never explain to someone how powerful the 'presence' is. I have no doubt in my mind my Grandma was there to come get him. NO DOUBT.

[mlawson]

84. I don't doubt it, either.

I watched my grandmother's eyes light up before she went. Radiant smile, even though she had been in deep senility for 8 years. She was back as herself for a few moments, and her unspoken message was for me. I had been an atheist up to that moment; but not now, nor ever again. I know what I saw.

And two months after my Dad passed, I had an unbelievably realistic dream having to do with him after he went -- it was basically the same thing.

[Sting]

39. The soul...

goes to Heaven or Hell, depending upon if you believe in God and Jesus. That's my belief. I do not believe the soul is a bunch of chemical reactions. How could chemical reactions "make" emotions such as love, hate, happiness, or sadness? I also believe the soul is what helps us think, remember, etc.

That's just my 2 cents.

[Reini]

50. Theory.....

My theory on reincarnation is like this: a person gets reincarnated for a reason; usually because they had some problems in their last life, and by getting a new one, can make up the mistakes of the past. and since no one is really perfect, most people come back; it just depends on how important their mistake was....

but thats only my opinion.

I also like to try to get along with people who dont believe in reincarnation; I dont argue with them, or try to change their beliefs; it is THEIR beliefs after all. :)

Reini

[Speck Tater]

72. Don't worry about people who don't believe in reincarnation.

They'll figure out in their next life. ;) ;) ;)

(Or in their next round of play, as I prefer to call it.)

[DemExpat]

79. Reminds me of what I said to my racist, sexist Dad once.....

Dad, You are going to come back to earth as a Black woman next time.......

He looked at me so strangely....
:-)

DemEx

[Sting]

82. I don't see how reincarnation works...

if it were the case, there'd always be the same amount of people on earth. That's not the case because there are billions of them. Even 500 years ago only a billion or so people were around. I just don't understand how that works. I also don't understand when a person reincarnates they come back as a flower, bird, or a doormat. :shrug: I dunno. It's not my belief. But I respect it nonetheless.

[Solly Mack]

44. Mine's going shopping

cause it can

[Leftist78]

49. don't know

haven't died yet. Maybe something happens, maybe nothing. We can't exactly talk to dead people and ask unless you believe in that kooky shit. The only thing I do know is that we're all going to find out.

[brook]

53. Well...

I don't really know. Haven't been there recently. :) - I do believe that the soul is eternal. But that's just me. I think everyone has to come to their own comfort zone on such a question.

I would suggest a book that helped me quite a bit in resolving my beliefs. It's called "Reincarnation: the Phoenix Fire Mystery" compiled and edited by Joseph Head and S. L. Cranston. It's a dialogue about death and rebirth that considers science, religion, psychology and philosophy amongst other disciplines/arts. It may be out of print - but I'm sure it's *findable*.

And Re: "I can't believe it's all for nothing". That was one of the first arguments I had with the nuns. By the time I was ten, I decided that no one - no how - could design a *hell* that outdid the here and the now. To say nothing that the entire theory was antithical to a benevolent and loving God. I think it's here that we do the *lessons* and pay the prices. Obviously, I don't believe in the popular version of hell...or God, either.

edited for rank spelling.

[Swede]

54. I"ve never considered reincarnation.

Cali and Vishnu and stuff like that is too far out there for me.

[onebigbadwulf]

55. What soul?

It's unfortunate that everything involving consciousness in humans is also seen in several other animals - self-awareness, consciousness, language, emotion, learning, teaching, imagination, creativity, etc.

What is a soul then if all these things are seen in other animals?

What is a soul if areas of the brain can be localized for every aspect that we perceive to be the mind?

Therefore we must conclude that everything has a soul or nothing has a soul. And in either case, it really doesn't matter what lies beyond because it will be inevitable.

[sangh0]

56. In order to go somewhere, it has to be somewhere first

I don't believe our souls are material in nature, so they aren't anywhere to begin with.

[Cleita]

57. No one has ever been back from the dead to

tell us, so no one really knows, which is one of the reasons I consider organized religions a bunch of hooey.

However, reincarnation is an interesting theory. There are many ways it could happen other than the obvious one. My favorite is that we come back to parallel universes and relive the same life over and over again until we get it right.

[Az]

58. All this is for

what you make of it. You expect the universe to hand you a purpose? You think it owes you that? Hmm. The purpose of life is what you make of it. Waist your time standing around waiting for the universe to hand you a purpose and it will truly have been a waisted life.

As to a soul? What makes you think you will survive your death? What makes you think living forever diconnected from the troubles and toils of living is going to make deciding your purpose any easier?

[Frangible]

59. Soul?

What soul? What evidence is there that there is a soul?

[KamaAina]

60. To an undisclosed location

Where else? :evilgrin:

[transeo]

61. Better stick around because I have a long list of people to haunt

I plan on having lots of fun in the next world.

:hi:

[Blue_Chill]

62. They go to Jupiter

Where everyone goes into the largest waiting room in all creation. There they sit reading old magazines, enduring muzak, and exchanging "how'd you die" stories until their number is called out by a strange little fat shining creature.

"#3234874253987, Jesus will see you now."

[bmbmd]

63. "Don't let your heart be weary-

Neither let it be troubled. You believe in God-believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so, I wouldn't have told you. Behold, I go away to prepare a place for you, and if I go, I will come again, and take you to myself."

Works for me.

[arwalden]

64. There's No Such Thing As Souls... When You Die, You Die. You're Dead.

Period.

So, enjoy life while you're alive. This is all there is.


-- Allen

P.S. I'm enjoying life. I love my life. I have no time to worry about whether or not "this is all there is" or "what it's all about". I have no desire to waste my limited amount time trying to mold my life to please nonexistent gods. What a waste of time! And the guilt? What an even WORSE waste of emotion!

[Speck Tater]

69. Thats an extrordianary claim!!!

Where's your extrodinary evidence?

In fact there is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case, and a considerable body of credible evidence that it is not the case.

[arwalden]

75. Sorry... I'm Not Making A "Claim" That Something *IS*...

... I'm saying that something *IS NOT*. It's the responsibility of those who claim something *IS* to produce the evidence.

I don't need "extraordinary" evidence. It's you who must provide evidence. (Suppose I say that there's a space alien clown who lives in the rings of Saturn. You say there's not. I say "prove it" with your extraordinary evidence. You cannot. Therefore, the clown exists? --- Get real. It would, of course, be MY responsibility to prove the clown exists.)


-- Allen

[mlawson]

85. Arwalden, have you ever watched someone close die??

Like a parent, best friend, grandparent? Right there at the bedside with them?? I have three times, both parents and a grandmother to whom I was very close. Watching their behavior very carefully, I could not say that they were going into oblivion. Quite the opposite.

I was an atheist until I watched Grandma pass away. What I saw convinced me on the spot that there is an afterlife, though there isn't necesarily an amorphos 'god'.

[Kolesar]

65. It becomes magnetic domains on Skinner's DU hard drive

That's about all there ever will be of me when I am dead.

[Speck Tater]

67. You wake up and realize that "reality" was just...

... an elaborate video game.

Here's the real deal: We are perfect beings of pure consciousness. Problem is, that kind of existence is a crashing BORE! So to escape that mind-numbing boredom we plays games. Like all games, this game starts by imposing rules and restrictions on the moves we can make. In a chess game you must keep your pieces on the chess board and move them in prescribed ways. In this virtual reality game you must forget who you really are (otherwise the game would be no fun at all!) and really get into the role you are playing. You take this whole "being human" game seriously because otherwise it's not nearly as much fun.

But like any game, this one is of finite duration. The game would start to get boring if it dragged on too long. So one of the rules is that you have to leave the game from time to time. After the game is over you'll hang out with your friends and chat about how you all did in the latest round. Then you'll map out some campaigns and adventures for your next round of gaming and jump right back into simulation, once again forgetting who you really are, and once again pretending to be some imaginary animal called a "human".

Enjoy.

P.S. If you don't believe that's how it works, it's only because you'd rather not remember that's how it works because you don't want to risk spoiling the game for yourself.

P.P.S. Like many other role-playing games (Dungeons and Dragons, Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot, for example), this one has "referees" or, "guides" usually called "GM's" (Game Masters). GMs have special abilities within the game and can cause strange things to happen for the education and amusement of the players. Such "unexplainable" oddities as ghosts, UFOs, Loch Ness Monsters, and raining frogs are special "GM events" staged for our amusement. We may, of course, choose to ignore these events since they have instrinsicly high deniability. They are designed to be deniable so that they can be enjoyed by those who choose to enjoy them yet will remain easily ignored and not disrupt the game for those players who really want total imersion in their role playing.

You wonder who that particular freeper who drives you nuts really is? Outside the game he's your best friend, here to play the antagonist role to the role you're playing this time. After the game is over you'll get together in the hyperspace dimension where we really live and have a huge laugh over the way you both played the game and pretended to be enemies this time.

[AlienGirl]

86. You've been playing for a while, haven't you?

Sounds like you've been around the block some. Mind if I PM you about it?

Tucker

[soleft]

68. What if there is only one soul

What if there is a single consciousness which animates us all - due to our individual psychological and physiological selves - that singular consciousness is expressed by each of us as unique individuals.

What if the single soul/consciousness not only animates us but also the entire universe.

When the physical form perishes, the single soul continues on.

Like a leaf falling off a tree. The life of the tree gets expressed in a new leaf.

[DemExpat]

81. I could imagine that as a returning to the Universal soul....

also that would include the soul energies of ALL living creatures IMO.

DemEx

[geniph]

73. Well, if I believed in the survival of consciousness, or soul

or whatever you call it - which I don't - personally, I want to go to the Rainbow Bridge and meet all my late pets. If I can't have my pets with me in whatever afterlife there might be, I ain't a-goin'.

Do I believe that the soul, the essence, the consciousness, survives? No, actually, I don't. Seems like too much of a fairy-tale to me. I'm not sure some people have a soul to begin with.

[VOX]

74. We are cursed in that "we know that we know." So we worry about...

death, and such things as the "dark side" claiming us, and we think we run the risk of spending eternity in some claustrophobic nightmare.

Note that most of the world's religious teachings really say relatively little about the concept of heaven. It is all rather mysterious, methaphorical and vague. Do we actually believe that we pluck a harp on a cloud, or have 72 virgins, or some such juvenile notion?

By contrast, mankind's art and literature is rich with detailed descriptions of punishments after death -- ornate tortures, writhing bodies, fiendish instruments of unspeakable pain.

My belief is that the universe exhibits a kind of intelligent energy -- galaxies were formed and spiral outward, you beat your heart without having to think about it, the seasons cycle, everything is in motion.

When we die, somewhere in that instant, a child is born -- and I'm not speaking about strict reincarnation. Each of us is a unique aperture through which the universe perceives itself. When one of us departs, another individual arrives, as unique as the one who just left.

There is thus a thread, a notion of immortality in that all things are interconnected.

[catzies]

77. New Orleans, if we're lucky.

That was from an old Calvin and Hobbes cartoon.

[Az]

78. Ok, let's say there is a soul and it is eternal

What are you going to do with eternity? There are people that go crazy on a rainy day because they can't find anything to do. Furthermore consider what your drives and motivations are when you have no needs like your biological need for food and sustenance. You have an eternity of nothing you have to do.

How many times can you do everything? In an eternity you will eventually use up every iteration of things you can do to distract yourself. What impetus is there to even move at that point? Can you even move? Eternity sounds like a bad idea to me.

[Blue_Chill]

80. New video games are made all the time

As long as they keep coming I can keep myself amused.

[mvd]

83. As long as music's in heaven..

I'll be fine. :) I'll go with heaven, but another dimension beyond our comprehension of science or re-incarnation can't be ruled out.