I have been invited to a Masonic Lodge installation ceremony

[Zomby Woof]

I may go, if time permits. My great-grandfather was a 33rd degree Socttish Rite Mason, and I have always had a casual interest in their organization. It would be interesting to see my colleague installed as a Mason.

I doubt if I would ever join, but I may attend the ceremony just the same.

[In_The_Wind]

1. That's really awesome!

:thumbsup:

[politicat]

2. It's a good org.

My whole family, save me, is Masonic, in some way or another. Since I'm the only one with strong feelings about the whole Deism thing, I'm the only one who never joined.

The lodges my family members belong to are hotbeds of Democratic fervor and liberal subversion, which seems a bit odd, considering they're all in rather Red areas. (Indiana, Gulf-coast FL, Southern IL, Arizona, Savannah, GA). Good folk, as far as I'm concerned, and the fact that they helped pay for college for both of my sisters makes them winners in my book.

If they'd ever let me say "Well, the whole god thing is really irrelevant, and prayers are a nice tradition, but don't do anything", I'd join and get the hubby involved in a heartbeat.

[Zomby Woof]

4. I am atheistic

Which is the biggest sticking point in me never joining. Although my friend stressed that ALL deistic beliefs are welcome, and most of the members are indifferent to organized religion. Still, I really can't cross the deist line with any deep conviction, even as I share their skepticism of organized religion.

My great-grandfather was a Democrat, now that you mention it, and according to my friend, although the members span the political spectrum, neither politics or religion are discussed in personal terms. The key word is personal. So pushing personal beliefs and attacks going with them are kept in check, which is a good means of keeping the peace. Their charity work and fraternizing comes first.

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. Do they let Catholics in these days???

The Masons never used to.

[Zomby Woof]

10. They are welcome these days

Speaking for this lodge, where my personal knowledge is better - this area has a very proud Catholic demographic, working class and liberal. His lodge is a veritable buffet of faiths and not a few ethnicities (Latino and Asian presence) are represented, including a few Catholics. It is true the Masons have a very WASPy heritage, but the charitable work is compatible with the charities done by their churches - all anonymous and so forth...

I would surmise that the lodges of the past, which are very local in their control, were unfortunately prone to the same prejudices of middle America in that time (just think of what JFK faced as recently as 1960 and you know the drill). Since the official guidelines adopted in the 18th century do not prohibit any kind of Christian, this lodge prides itself on not being exclusionary along those lines.

Any lodge which still engages in a discriminating practice such as barring Catholics, is not being true to real spirit of its intent. I certainly would not, even as a guest, patronize a group which engaged in prejudicial prohibitions based on personal spiritual beliefs.

[greatauntoftriplets]

11. When I was a kid, my father had a friend who was a Mason.

When the guy was drunk, he would always go on at length about being a Mason and how they would not accept Catholics. My family is Catholic.

My parents eventually got rid of those friends.

Have fun if you go....

[Zomby Woof]

12. Wise of your parents

Sad that the person put friends second to his lodge and its shared bigotries (I am too loyal to my friends, and not the biggest joiner as it is).

Lodges are under such individual control, that it would not surprise me if a large number engaged in that practice far beyond your neighborhood or region. Many also create absurd rituals that are NOT in the original charter. So abuse of the intent of the Masons is quite easy to do, hence the ease with which they could incorporate their own prohibitions.

This event will be his speech, followed by refreshments (they prohibit alcohol at their lodge, which I respect immensely). He insists it will be over in 30 minutes. :-)

I am going more out of curiosity, if I go at all. The family holiday party may very well be that afternoon (the time hasn't been sorted out yet), and that comes first, no contest. I value family and friends first. Any kind of social club would be a distant third.

[hfojvt]

21. I am pretty sure

that Catholics do not accept Masons either. I believe that the Church does not condone secret societies. Even if Masons accept Catholics, Catholics are not supposed to join. I could be wrong.

[Zomby Woof]

22. And Catholics...

Aren't supposed to divorce or use birth control either...

Just sayin'.

It is true Catholic Masons are rare, and a distinct minority. But far better it be by the rule you stated than discrimination based on bigotry.

Although anti-Catholic bigotry is alive and well, unfortunately.

[hfojvt]

23. It's kinda hard for me to follow their reasoning

http://www.freemason.org/cfo/may_june_2002/retracted.htm

[Zomby Woof]

24. The first point is clear

The Masons make it clear that they have NO official position in regards to the Catholic church. They assert, as I did above, that men of all faiths are equally welcome to join.

It is also asserts that local lodges have their own customs and follow them accordingly, for better or worse...

It seems that the very doctrinaire Catholics are uneasy with the Masons, due to their symbolism, and the fact the Holy Communion cannot be taken there (which is dismissable, because the Masons welcome non-christian deists, etc., and why would they indulge in the ritual of one sect of christianity?), and other discomforts with the rituals.

But my feeling is that lapsed Catholics (but still believers in Christ or God) are not concerned with these rules asserted by the Catholic hierarchy (the same way many American Catholics, even non-lapsed, are not always concerned with the Church's position on birth control, et al) so they join the Masons anyway, and more importantly, that the said hierarchy is okay with maintaining a dialogue with the Masons.

[politicat]

18. Sounds familiar....

"I really can't cross the deist line...."

Oh, man, you nailed it on the head.

And yes, I think it is mostly about the charitable work and the fraternization. Would that there was an atheist/agnostic friendly org of the same nature.... *sigh*

[bridgit]

3. you have our support...

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Zomby Woof]

5. Thanks bridgit

:hi:

[Elidor]

7. I'd be deathly scared of "laughing in church," myself

I don't know much about the organizations, but pomp and ceremony tend to induce spontaneous giggle fits in me. I'd embarrass myself.

One of the people I respected most in this world was a Mason. Though I didn't know about that aspect of his life until we lost him far too early.

[WCGreen]

8. The Knights Templar.......

You will be inducted into the rituals of the secret crusades and have to smoke cigarettes upside down like the NAZI that burst into flames in Indiana Jones......

[KitchenWitch]

9. Sounds really cool!

:hi:

[AntiCoup2K4]

13. 33rd degree? Which President was he?

Hail Satan! :evilgrin:

/freep conspiracy nut mode

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

14. The knife goes between the second and third ribs.

Tell him to get it right the first time. Virgins don't come cheap these days.

[nini]

15. will you have to wear one of those funny hats?

:evilgrin:

[bridgit]

16. and an apron...

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/art/washington_apron.html B-)

[nini]

17. Wow... that's some apron!

ZW would just love that - haha

[Zomby Woof]

25. It says "Kiss The Chef"

In hieroglyphics. :evilgrin:

[bridgit]

26. ^_^

:rofl:

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. My Father was installed as "Worshipful Master" of his Lodge

and (If i am not mistaken) the area or district of Port Charlotte and Sarasota, Fl just a year before he died in 2000.

Go, if you can. It will mean a great deal to the person who invited you. I regret not being able to attend my dad's installation. He attended lodges all over the world and was 32nd degree for quite some time.
I admire the Masonic order greatly as Mason have been instrumental in rational government for centuries all over the world. Integrity and honor are things this world needs more of and the Masons promote these things.


Go. It will mean a lot.

[Zomby Woof]

20. That is exactly it

Worshipful Master installation.

I appreciate your kind input and for sharing your father's story.