"Master and Commander"....YEOW!!!!!

[BiggJawn]

Damn, that was a GOOD flick!

Geez, I could almost smell the bilge!

Just one thing....Was that grapeshot the frenchman hammered them with in the first volley? Good gawd, what splinters!

[onebigbadwulf]

1. Really?

It looked like crap from the preview

[girl gone mad]

2. got great reviews.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/MasterandCommanderTheFarSideoftheWorld-1127359/

[HawkerHurricane]

3. No, roundshot

Grape wouldn't have that kind of range. But, take a round metal object, weighing 18+ pounds, and moving at just under the speed of sound, and use it to hit wooden planks...

[BiggJawn]

4. Nawwwww, I saw what the solid shot did later.

This was a scatter effect. It almost looked like they were getting pelted with gravel or hail...

I agree that grape wouldn't carry that far, nor have enough energy to do anything if it DID get there...

That's Hollywood, I guess! Still a good movie.

[Loonman]

35. The right tools for the right job

Man has always been pretty ingenious when it comes to finding ways to hurt his fellow man. The ammunition used by guns at sea was no exception. Like most other features of gunnery using muzzle-loading black powder guns, few of the ammunition, tools and other necessary impedimenta relating to naval gunnery changed over the centuries.

As for types of ammunition, the standard form was the “Roundshot” (also called a “Cannonballs” by non-purists). These were almost invariably made from cast-iron, and were used to smash up the hull of an enemy ship When a roundshot struck and penetrated an enemy hull it could dismount guns and rip off huge jagged splinters of wood which would maim the crew.

“Bar Shot” and “Chain Shot” both served the same purpose; to scythe through the air and to cut down the rigging of the enemy ship. This in turn could bring down her masts, enabling the firing ship to get into a position to rake her, firing into the enemy while she was unable to fire back.

“Cannister Shot” and “Grape Shot” were used at point blank range, just before an enemy tried to board. They both contained a dozen or more mini-roundshot or large musket balls, which were designed to cut down the enemy crew who were gathered together to board the firing ship. These anti-personnel rounds were augmented by the fire of swivel guns firing similar types of ammunition and by marines firing muskets.

Although these were the most common types, several other variants existed. Until the mid 17th century some ships carried “perriers”; low velocity guns designed to fire stone cannonballs. Although their use is unclear, they were probably designed so split into stone shards at close range, acting a bit like wooden splinters, cutting down the enemy crew. “Spike Shot” was roundshot or bar shot with spikes at the ends, designed to stick in the enemy hull, or to roll around its decks (another name for the bar shot variety was “Trundle Shot”) In some cases, spike shot was wrapped in pitch and sacking, so it would ignite when fired, and set the other ship on fire. Another type of anti-personnel ammunition was “Landgridge”; a wooden case containing metal scraps, old nails and jagged pieces of metal. When fired the case would burst apart and the shot would fly out as if it was scatter shot fired from a shotgun.

http://www.melfisher.org/cannonsurvey/ammunition.htm

[PassingFair]

6. Grape, shmape...Who cares? I'd "hit the wooden planks"

...with Lucky Jack any day of the week. He buckled my swash.

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. Oooooh! I'm telling your husband on you!!!

;)

[David Zephyr]

5. Two Opinions From One Household.

I loved the film. But I am a history nut.
My companion thought it was good to look at, but didn't care for the film that much. The "story" did not hold him.

But, like you I "could almost smell the bilge" and the sound is so overwhelming and well distributed that when one cannon ball hit the ship, I actually yelled out which promptly brought an elbow into my side.

[BiggJawn]

7. I kept ducking and gringing...

It was more than a little light on character development, but well, so what?

My GF said on the way out "Hell with AHH-nuld, I like Crowe now..."

I said "That's nice, since he's built more like a mortal and I do a fair British accent and know the Way of Ships..."

[AGiordino]

8. NPR interviewed the Soundman (Foley)

Types of shot recorded for the film were :
Round - cannon ball
Bar Shot - two smaller cannon balls joined by a bar
Chain shot - two smaller cannon balls joined by chain
Grape shot - the classic shotgun load for cannon

Guess I'll have to dig out and go see this

[BiggJawn]

10. Everything was specialized...

Round shot was for punching holes in the hull, bar and cahin shot for the rigging, and grapeshot was the original "A-P" round...

And sometimes they heated the shot almost white-hot so it would start fires where it landed

[HawkerHurricane]

16. Left out double shot...

loading two balls with one charge, deveastating at short range but useless at long range.

[primavera]

19. Or triple...

At the battle of Trafalgar, many of the English ships of the line, locked in close combat with the French and Spanish ships, used triple loads, knowing that it would not only do more damage over the short range, but also ensuring that the shot wouldn't travel far enough to hit any of the numerous nearby English vessels.

[GAspnes]

22. not on-board a ship they didn't

all fires and lamps would be extinguished before starting a ship to ship battle.

Shore batteries sometimes used heated shot. The Spanish were very big on it. English shore batteries rarely used heated shot, at least according to C. S. Forrester.

[supernova]

9. M&C would be a goner if

Pirates of the Carribean: The Curse of The Black Pearl hadn't revived the lust for seagoing tales.
And I'm speaking strictly of movies here. Seamus Heany is a genius of the written genus.

[BiggJawn]

11. Disagree. I didn't see "Pirates".

But I was probably an old salt in a previous incarnation anyway...

[supernova]

12. How can you disagree if you

didn't see POTC. That's a priori wrong. How can you disagree with something you admit you've never seen. You're not helping your case here.

Vive Capt Jack!!

[BiggJawn]

13. Horsepucky!

You said Master and Commander would be a "Goner" if "POTC" hadn't revived intrest in seagoing tales. I said I didn't see "pirates", but that didn't stop me from seeing "M&C", therefore, I see no "Cause and Effect" between the 2 films.I didn't disagree with "Pirates", I wa disagreeing with your statement.

And I thought *I* was tired and getting foggy.

And save those fancy words like "priori" for arguments about Chomsky.

[supernova]

14. Wrong.

It's not about "you" personally, much as you would love to make it so, BJ.

It's about the public's love of seagoing tales. And I can tell you that the year's 2nd BIGGEST BLOCKBUSTER, POTC, behind only Finding Nemo -- which I might add POTC will likely surpass in DVD sales, whetted the public's appetite for more seagoing adventure.

POTC is humorous as well as adventurous. I submit that M&C is dramatic. That in and of itself is not sufficient to sell it.

[BiggJawn]

15. Screw the "public's love of seagoing tales" I was talking from MY POV.

NOT the "public's".
M&C "sold" me just fine, but then I have the tastes of a Philistine.

go play movie critic with somebody else. I'm going to bed.

[HawkerHurricane]

17. Sounds like...

what the original Star Wars did for science fiction...
Not so much popularize it in the public mind, but popularize it with the studio executives.

[NashVegas]

25. Doesn't Matter If You've Seen Pirates Or Not

If Pirates had bombed, M & C wouldn't have anywhere NEAR the promotional budget it does, and they might even have held off releasing it until next spring.

Similar story with last year's Chicago; if it hadn't been for the success of Moulin Rouge, Chicago would have yet to see the light of day.

[geniph]

24. Master and Commander had a LARGE built-in audience

in the innumerable fans of Patrick O'Brian's Jack Aubrey novels, fans of Forester's Hornblower series, tall-ship and wooden ship aficianados, and Russell Crowe fans. If the movie totally sucked, it still would have had a large opening weekend. There has been buzz about this movie for over a year on tall-ship and Patrick O'Brian fansites. Many of those who went the opening weekend had never heard of Pirates of the Caribbean, or if they had, had only the vaguest idea what it was.

I think you underestimate the size of the Patrick O'Brian fanbase. It's sizable.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

27. Dont forget canister, which would have been in use by then

Which was designed to deliver grape shot a lot further. Canister was a barrel-shaped thing with two halves loosely connected. Filled with grape shot, nails, broken glass, and even amputated limbs sometimes, it was fired from longer range with the goal of killing those on deck before engaging with other long-range guns, like round shot (for puncturing sides) and ball-and-chain shot (designed to disable rigging).

And yes, all Navies at one time or another used heated shot with varying degrees (oooch, that burns!) of success. The English finally mastered it about 1800, which I believe is about 25 years in the future of MandC.

[HawkerHurricane]

28. I thought cannister was invented later?

And the date for the movie is 1805, the start of the 'Napoleonic Wars'.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

29. I had thought so too, but a RN site says 1793 was the first use

I don't always understand the timeline on O'Brian's books... I have not read them all yet... but it seems he takes liberties with dates to me.

[Zero Gravitas]

33. It does

O'Brian writes about his liberties with time in some of the book forwards. He thought that he had stuffed about three years worth of events into 1812 alone.

[ulysses]

18. I think the French used grapeshot

against sails and rigging. The English went primarily for solid shot against the hull.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I really really really really really really really really really really want to. :) Glad to hear you enjoyed it.

[LibLabUK]

20. Yep

Yeah, the french fought to seize ships as they couldn't afford to build as many as the British could. The Royal Navy fought to destroy ships, hence they shot for the hull whilst the french shot for the rigging.

[HawkerHurricane]

21. Chainshot

used by the French against rigging. The English said it was so they could escape easier. The English never issued chainshot, since they thought it was 'cowardly'.
Grapeshot was used against the exposed crew, grape making holes too small to hurt the masts.

[primavera]

23. Chain vs. round

The English tended to prefer roundshot over chain because chain disabled the rigging, which would takes days to re-reeve before the vessel could be gotten under way again. With the system of prize money, capturing vessels and returning them swiftly to English ports was the most desirable goal, so round shot would be used above the waterline to inflict enough damage to compel capitulation, while still allowing the captured vessel to be swiftly brought under control by the prize crews.

[Paladin]

26. I'll Tell You How Good A Movie This Is

It's so good that a number of female friends of mine are now born-again Russell Crowe fans after having seen "M&C." These ladies had previously branded Crowe a pig for actions in his personal life, and avoided his movies like the plague.

If you loved the movie, don't deny yourself the pleasure of O'Brien's epic 20-book series. Absolutely addictive once you've started reading them.....

[NashVegas]

30. Ummm

Russell Crowe and his uni-faceted character portrayals aren't a selling point with some people. Me, for instance :)

[GCP]

31. "Lucky jack" was almost Cpt James T. Kirk-like

He " cheated" at times - having his men build a decoy for the french to fire at in the fog, another time having them row his crippled ship silently into a fog-bank.

He used that most impressive muscle - his brain.

I also loved the Galapagos Islands interlude, where the doctor was amazed at all the different unique species.

Great movie.

[hippiechick]

32. I was bored to tears

and the gore was ... well, gory.

Must be a testosterone thing.


:hippie:

[Snow]

36. I think this is my sister's first go as 1st assistant director -

she really enjoyed it, and got to travel to the Galapagos in the bargain (my daughter was incredibly jealous). The ship they used is currently moored in San Diego, where my nephew (another sister's son) is crewing. The Fox water studio in Baja where a lot of the filming took place is fascinating as well. It was originally built for the Titanic.