Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:33 PM
Original message |
Poll question: The Death Penalty. Would you make an exception? |
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Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 06:36 PM by Crazy Guggenheim
So, what exceptions if any?
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Oeditpus Rex
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:37 PM
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1. I really don't see the point |
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of keeping alive someone like Charles Manson — a true psychopath/sociopath who offers nothing of benefit to society except maybe more bad lyrics.
But then, it's not for me to judge.
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Dave Reynolds
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:37 PM
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2. I don't have a vote, but |
Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:38 PM
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3. Thanks for bringing some! |
ismnotwasm
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:43 PM
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Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
8. Did you bring any salt? |
flvegan
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:44 PM
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5. You should post this in GD. I don't think folks there have an opinion |
Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
12. People in The Lounge have an opinion on the DP. |
flvegan
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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It was a joke. It seems like every thread over there is DP this or DP that.
I know folks here have an opinion on it.
Um, whatever.
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Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
LaurenG
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message |
6. No exceptions-I just had a conversation with a guy at work |
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His brother was murdered and he does not support the death penalty, even for his brothers killer. I was very proud of him when he said it was because the only reason to kill a murderer would be for vengeance and what will that get you but more of the same.
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skygazer
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message |
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I have no illusions about people like Manson. Or Bundy. Or my ex husband. They're not going to be "rehabilitated", they're not going to see the light and we have to pay for them to live out their lives which does stick in my craw a bit.
But I cannot bring myself to believe that anyone has the right to take a life. I'm always reminded of the exchange in Lord of the Rings (the book) when Frodo says that Gollum "deserved to die." And Gandalf replies, "Deserves? Perhaps. But many who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Don't be so quick to hand out death in judgment."
I just can't believe it's my place, or any human being's place, to take another's life.
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GirlinContempt
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Mon Dec-12-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
32. "we have to pay for them to live out their lives" |
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Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 08:35 PM by GirlinContempt
Actually, getting someone to the point of execution is far more expensive 99.9999999999999999999% of the time. In fact, I haven't heard about a case where it was cheaper since uhm, people would just get one trial and then hanged/beheaded.
On edit, just to be clear, I did get that you were against the DP, just sayin' is all :)
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skygazer
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Mon Dec-12-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
northzax
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message |
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who are we to say that some murders are more heinous than others? that some victims are more sympathetic than others? seriously. Why introduce the possibility of of bias against the defendant into the system? if you kill someone, and are convicted of it, you die. Perfectly fair.
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GirlinContempt
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
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who are we to say that some thefts are worse than others? Some vandalism? pick ANY crime. Jeeze even people thousands of years ago recognized shades of grey.
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northzax
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
28. so what, in your opinion, is the moral difference |
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between life sentence, without parole, and an actively imposed death sentence? what is the real difference between sequestering someone from society until they die form some random cause and sequestering them from society until such a time as the State kills them?
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GirlinContempt
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Mon Dec-12-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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for starters, the most obvious one, is that if new evidence comes to light, or new technologies to prove or disprove cases, the person is alive to be pardoned. And this happens.
The other is plain and simple: I don't believe the government should have the right to kill it's citizens. Period. I think that it goes beyond the governments function and purpose, and that brings up the other difference. Locking someone away is something that is done for a large number of crimes, and is at this time the most acceptable way of dealing with people who break the law. Killing someone is in a totally different category.
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northzax
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Mon Dec-12-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
30. your first arguement proves the point |
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if we're going to execute anyone, then there is always that chance, isn't there? who can know?
if killing someone is, in fact, in a different category from other crimes, then obviously, all killings should be treated the same way. why allow for the possiblity of bias by having some killers face different types of death sentences? one a protracted one, the other faster? Why allow the possiblity that black men will get death for killing white women, but white men won't get it for killing black women? If any killer deserves a state administered death sentence, they all do. no one has yet explained to me the real difference.
It is my opinion that if any convict deserves a state administered death sentence, that anyone who cannot be rehabilitated and reontroduced into society should get that same penalty. 60 years in a small cell versus death? what's the difference? one makes us feel 'humane" and the other doesn't?
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GirlinContempt
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Mon Dec-12-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
31. See, and I don't think ANY murderer should be |
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put to death. #1 above all others because I don't think that a government should have the right to kill it's citizens.
"60 years in a small cell versus death? what's the difference? one makes us feel 'humane" and the other doesn't?"
The difference is one is irreversible, the other isn't. 'Humane' may or may not be a factor, but the irreversibly of it IS. Period.
"If any killer deserves a state administered death sentence" None do.
If we can hypothesize that killing someone is in a different category from other crimes, we should also be able to see that killing the killer is in a different category from locking them up for the same reasons.
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sundog
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message |
CaliforniaPeggy
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message |
11. My better self does not believe in the death penalty. NO exceptions. |
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Of course, my more revengeful self does believe in it.
However, most western, civilized nations do NOT have the death penalty.
I believe that no nation or person has the right to put to death another person, with some exceptions: REAL war or national self defense.
I believe that killing otherwise makes us no better than the person who we want to punish for having killed someone, or tortured or raped, or whatever they did to someone else.
You talk about revenge.....revenge is not a valid reason for having the death penalty. The state should be above revenge. It should be better than revenge.
We really need to try to find out what makes people commit the horrendous crimes for which we now use the death penalty, and correct those conditions.
YOu know, the old "ounce of prevention."
Just my 2 cents.....
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LeftyMom
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:53 PM
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terrya
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:55 PM
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14. No exceptions whatsoever. Not even Manson. Not even Jeffrey Dahmer. |
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The death penalty is wrong under any circumstances.
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SeattleGirl
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message |
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One of my two favorite uncles was murdered some years ago, and when they caught the men who did it, the thought of the death penalty for them never ever entered my mind. I just can't get behind it. If someone murders somebody, stick them in prison for life, meaning the rest of their days, not "life" as in "25 years".
By the way, did you know that when someone dies by whatever death penalty method a particular state uses, the cause of death is listed as "Homicide"?
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Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
17. Interesting. I didn't know that. |
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By the way, did you know that when someone dies by whatever death penalty method a particular state uses, the cause of death is listed as "Homicide"?
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SeattleGirl
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
21. I watched a documentary MSNBC did on it |
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And they showed the death certificate after the person died, and "Homicide" was what it said. And you know, that's exactly what it is: state sanctioned murder.
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Anita Garcia
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
26. and that's interesting |
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no dp. No homicide by the Government.
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Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. Profound. Profound ........ |
BikeWriter
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Mon Dec-12-05 06:57 PM
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18. Not while juries are fallable and even cops can lie. |
redqueen
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:03 PM
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22. No DP, no exceptions. |
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I like the results so far. Very civilized. :D
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Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. I know. I was going to say it's 85% is against with no exceptions. |
tuvor
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:05 PM
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23. I can never say never. |
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I'm opposed to it, but I can't promise I always will be.
(Didn't vote as there was no appropriate choice.)
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xmas74
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Mon Dec-12-05 07:30 PM
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25. A childhood friend was murdered by a serial killer |
Blue-Jay
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Mon Dec-12-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message |
34. YAY! Another death Penalty thread! |
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:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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victim
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Mon Dec-12-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
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It would be beyond me to forgive some motherfucker in a situationlike that. They might not get the DP though because I'd get them first...
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Crazy Guggenheim
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Mon Dec-12-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
Reciprocity
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Mon Dec-12-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message |
37. Child killers mandatory with exceptions. |
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I do believe these words. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." Gandalf
The exceptions. With circumstances to be taken into account. accidents mental illness neglect religion There's more I haven though of I'm sure.
Also some of these folks need to serve time while other set free.
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mvd
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Tue Dec-13-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 04:31 PM by mvd
If I had my way, there would be no DP. I've been avoiding the Tookie threads because I'm a mod and posts make me angry, so this is a good place to share my feelings. I used to be for it for child killers and terrorists, but I became consistent in my opposition. I'm against it for moral reasons, because of a lack of closure for people who knew the victims, and because of an imperfect system that will never be perfect enough for the DP. I am active in opposition and tent e-mails to the Governator, but in the case of child killers and mass murderers, I am still opposed to executing - but can't whip up much emotion.
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