Lord of the Rings Pt. II- BOOOOORING!!!!!

[Dr Fate]

I saw it at the theater- and then again last night on DVD- BOOORRRRRING!!!!

The 1st one was GREAT- but this installment was not holding my attention.

I'm hoping that #3 picks up- I seem to remember the books being like this (I read them in 8th grade)- the 2nd one was not as good as 1 & 3...

...thoughts?

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Yeah, the second one is much more just story-filler

I'm not so keen on the second book, either, in comparison with the others.

But also, the movie version seemed so much more focused on "gee whiz bang" giant battle scenes, and very little on plot or character development, except with Frodo and Gollum, and even then, it wasn't much.

I was disappoitned with the second movie.

Saw a trailer for Return of the King a few weeks ago, though, and it looks AWESOME.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. Well I loved it.....

It's not just filler, there are a lot of important things that happen in the second movie that spill over into the third.


The battle of Helm's Deep was just brilliant, and the Ents looked great!

They were definitely not meant to be standalone movies and like any book, the middle of it tends to have no set beginning or end and acts as more as a segue into the climax of the story.

[Blaukraut]

3. Spoiler for some

The problem with The Two Towers, IMHO, was the fact that;

1. too much time was spent at Helm's Deep

2. the warg scene and Aragorn's fall off the cliff was added as a filler

3. Shelob was moved to Return of the King

and finally
4. Gandalf's confrontation with Saruman at Orthanc was originally moved to Return of the King, and as of now, even cut from the theatrical version and will only be seen on the extended DVD.

This left The Two Towers pretty skimpy in storyline material.

[joeybee12]

4. Thought first part of second movie was good, then it just dragged

Sort of like the second book of the trilogy.

[primavera]

5. They took too many liberties this time around

Admittedly, the Two Towers was a bit slower in the books as well, but the filmmakers cut so much of the novel to fit it into three hours, and then to cut a bunch more to make room for stupid Hollywood dreck like Aragorn falling off the cliff and gratuitious psychadelic scenes with Arwen who shouldn't have been there in the first place, they had to pretty much gut the novel, leaving it largely unrecognizable. How typical of Hollywood to imagine that they can improve upon a work which has withstood the test of time and translation into God only knows how many different languages, and how predictable that their efforts to do so should fail miserably.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Yes, and that's my issue

The Ents were introduced wrong, too.

Also - I could be wrong, since I haven't read the book in over a year, but I don't remember the Lothlorien elves showing up at helm's deep.

Plus the issues you raised, and others. Overall, beautifully filmed, but they really bastardized the text, and they didn't need to.

[joeybee12]

7. I think the elves did show up in the book--then again, it's been a while

since I read it all.

[VelmaD]

19. The Elves WERE NOT at Helm's Deep

in the book. But in the special features on the dvd they talk about that. In the books the elves (and dwarves too for that matter) were involved in figthing at other locations that they just don't have time to either put in or explain in the movies.

[roguevalley]

9. second movies always suffer from transitional stuff

they made the movie move. I'm glad they didn't put
shelob into this one. She would have been too much
I think. Better to open the next one with her, the
icky stinker.

I loved this movie. I hope they put them altogether
with things they didn't put in and fill it out in
a 12 hour extravaganza. The adds they put in made
this one feel more full. Certainly the scenes with
Boromir and Faramir were needed really badly.

Poor Faramir. Didn't film good off the page so they
made him struggle. I suppose given time it will be
okay.

[primavera]

12. Nope, no elves at Helm's Deep

And why did they re-make Faramir into this chilling, sociopathic automaton? Why does Frodo stand up in front of a Black Rider and offer him the Ring? Since when is Gollum a split personality? It's all so preposterous.

[tjdee]

16. Why they did that to Faramir...

I have to say that I really understand Jackson's thinking...uh, LOL, I think.

First of all, basically it was something to do for the second film, LOL. Also, though, I think they're setting it up as Aragorn is "The Good Guy"....Faramir in the book is a little too noble and white bread, one might start wondrin' why he doesn't get to be The King (if I'm remembering correctly). The film fixes that right up for ya, LOL.

[Blaukraut]

18. movie Faramir is more consistent with

The lure of the ring. This was something that actually bugged me about the book - if even Gandalf and Galadriel were initially tempted by the ring, how could a 'mere human' like Faramir not even be fazed by it?

That's why, in a way, movie Faramir makes more sense.

[bmbmd]

25. Gollum was always a bit of a split personality

hence the "slinker" and "stinker" monikers.........

[PVnRT]

28. Gollum was a split personality

Slinker and Stinker, as Sam called the two halves.

[tjdee]

11. Well, if I remember correctly, the books don't go into Arwen/Aragorn too m

uch...
I think it was a nice touch to actually get *into* it, and to help us have an emotional investment in Arwen/Aragorn--bigger payoff at the end if we actually care about them and their relationship.

[joeybee12]

14. Basically Arwen/Aragon relationship is in one of the appendices, not

the novel itself. They made it more important I guess to have a love interest--that man/hobbit thing was getting a little too homo-erotic for the studio bigwigs, I guess!

[tjdee]

20. As a woman, I enjoy it, actually.

As I've mentioned, I'm a cheeseball.
For me, it elevates the text slightly--makes it more of that formula epic I suppose, but I enjoy the added screentime for one of the women (even if its blech Liv Tyler), and I think its sweet. People really go for the impossible love story.

[tjdee]

8. Return of the King is going to be incredible. Look forward to that, LOL.

Everyone's right.

Two Towers is a bridge book, and a bridge film. Getting from Point A to Point B. Jackson has said that #2 is the one where they took the most liberties/the one people were going to have the biggest problem with.

I personally wish there'd only been two films, but since he had to go and do the middle one, it was as good as could be expected. And, it was pretty darn good (even at its worst it was better than either of the latter Matrix films).

I was actually quite disappointed in Two Towers until somewhere in the middle, and thought the ending came back around and rocked. Loved Helm's Deep. I know a lot of the hardcores aren't crazy about Sam's speech at the end, but I loved it for the film (disclaimer: I am a cheeseball).

The last one is going to be REALLY GOOD. Jackson says that he cries at the end every time he sees it. Elijah Wood is a strong enough actor to pull off what goes down, as are Viggo Mortenson and Sean Astin. I wouldn't be surprised if we finally see some Oscar wins for the series.

[JackS124]

10. Sorry, can't agree.....

Fellowship of the Ring for me was much more of a setup piece for the second and third films.

I just watched the theatrical release of Two Towers on DVD this week and then the extendend version and both are brilliant. The pace is better, the story begins to flesh out and the action sequences are superb. The Battle for Helms Deep has to be one of the best battle scenes film, along with the Ent battle for Isengard (sp?).

[tjdee]

13. I agree about the battle scenes.

I am not a fan of those kinds of things, and I always feel like directors let them run too long. I very much enjoyed those two, though.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. The extended version was outstanding....

I really enjoyed it.

[leftist_rebel1569]

21. I agree

I thought that the second one was better than the second. But, I read the second book, so I kinda understood what was going on. :)

[newyawker99]

29. Hi JackS124!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Cat Atomic]

17. The liberties they took with the plot were genuine improvements.

I know, I know- heresy. But they made the story cinematic. Scenes that would've been pointless were made relevant.

For instance, I always thought Faramir's inclusion in the book was almost meaningless. In the movie he actually has a struggle and a "victory" of sorts- over himself. I thought it was a big improvement. Especially in terms of cinema.

[George_Bonanza]

22. Agreed, for the most part

I didn't like Faramir in the book. He was so "boy scout" to Boromir's brooding darkness. I liked his conversion at the end of TTT (moved me) and it gives more interest to his previously squeaky-clean character. The Elves at Helm's Deep are probably a big set-up piece for something in the RotK. We have to find out what. But it didn't detract from the movie at all, so it's fine. The Warg attack made a good action sequence and didn't hurt the movie, so it's fine as well. However, the Ent reformation is ill-advised. Treebeard nobly accepts the task of marching to their doom (or so he thinks) against Saruman. Yet in the movie, he comes off like an aloof idiot that destroys Saruman based on a moment's anger. Aren't they supposed to be slow, plodding beings, not ones that make life-death decisions on whim?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

23. Actually It didn't bother me at all that they changed it,

and I'm a Tolkien geek (or at least was, until I discovered it didn't go down too well with any woman I knew) I thought it was well constructed and a really good swashbuckler. ROTK will blow it away of course, but ROTK will blow every other film made this decade away.

[xJlM]

24. I thought it was great

I don't see how anyone who was a Tolkien fan can be that upset with the changes which were made to tie the movies all together. You have to realise, this could easily have worked out to six movies three hours long each. I think Peter Jackson did an admirable job of bringing a classic tale to film.

Some might have a problem with the changes which were made, but for the most part they make sense to me. In the novel, remember how Aragorn was carting around a broken sword? For what? That sword was shown in The Fellowship Of The Ring, but it wasn't until ROTK that it gets remade for Isildur's heir to use it in the defeat of Sauron.

[Name removed]

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[Liberal Classic]

27. Heresy!

For one thing, the middle of the story is always the least. The Two Towers part III and IV are always the longest parts when I read it as well. I still believe Jackson's LotR is the best thing to come to theaters in years, the Matrix films not withstanding. And I say this having read each book before the movie. Actually, it's funny to see so many people with a copy of the book skimming through it in the theater before the lights go out.

I realize that some concessions had to be made to the plot of the books to translate it into a screenplay. Some corners had to be cut, and I am willing to forgive them for making up some bits, like the warg attack, and extrapolating on others such as Arwen and Aragorn. Got to have a love interest, I guess. Even though the ents agreed to fight, instead of having to be tricked, and even though the elves didn't come to Helm's Deep, it is still a helluva good flick. Some thing have to be changed to give people not familiar with the story a chance to catch up. If someone hadn't read Dune, the Raffaelia de laurentiis didn't make much sense. So for example. in the book Faramir recognizes the peril of the ring and resists temptation, but this would not have as much impact in the movie. It kind of makes sense that they would want to show Faramir tempted too, or else why could he just ignore it when his brother did not? Have to do that to build tension.

I can't expect to have every line from the book, if I did it wouldn't be a good movie to people who weren't already fans. If you want something literally translated go rent Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet. :)