question, about white people using the "n" word

[arcane1]

specifically, when a white person re-makes a rap tune that has it in there..

I don't listen to much rap, so I haven't really seen any examples..

Is that ok? has it been done? :shrug:

I'm thining about doing a kind of RATM-style version of such a tune, but I wanna make sure :)

[wryter2000]

1. I hate that word

I wish no one of any color would use it.

[FDRrocks]

6. Me too...

I don't know why black culture has co-opted it... given its literal meaning. Now you hear a white guy shooting off that word and you don't know if he's a rascist or has cultural identity issues.

[mlawson]

13. Exactly, and I feel the same way about the word,

'Queer'. I happen to be gay, myself, and I HATE that term!!!

Is it not the same thing as n-----???

[Catherine Vincent]

30. Same here.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

2. not considered okay

call it a double-standard. but oh well.

[1a2b3c]

3. Sounds fine to me

[leftist_rebel1569]

4. I dunno...

If you're using Rage as a reference, then I think it'd prolly be best not said. The lead singer of the band was hispanic, and the "n" word showed up only on their last album which was only covers of other songs, as far as I know. They didn't write a song with the "n" word in it, but I might be wrong. I may be missing a song, but I'm kinda sure they didn't

Edit: But hey, it's up to you. If it works, then it works.

[arcane1]

10. just refering to their style...

I like this song, and think it would make a great heavy version.. might attract people who otherwise don't enjoy rap...

the song has it in there 3 times. 2 of them are just a general expression, and can be easily replaced with any of a dozen other 2-syllable words, lol

the 3rd occasion is a bit different :evilfrown:

[oustemnow]

36. can't you just use "motherfucker"?

It's a much nicer word.

[Closer]

5. I don't think white folks

should ever use that word.

[Catholic Sensation]

8. i don't think black folks

should for the same reason whites can't.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

7. i just listened to my neighbor's freestyles

he's white, he said "Im a white nigga" in the rap. I told him that if he ever wants recognition he should not say it, because african-americans are reclaiming the word.

[MercutioATC]

9. My view (as a white guy)

The "n" word was originally a derogatory term. The black community did what many other groups have done and "took back" the word, incorporating it into their vocabulary (similar to the gay/"queer" label). It's still a derogatory term if you're not a member of the wronged group, however. I'm white and the person with whom I talk about politics most (and whos political opinion I respect most) is black. I'd never THINK of using the "n" word with him (or anybody else, for that matter). Mind you, I've called him to task for not supporting gay marriage, specifically referencing discrimination against blacks, so I'm on pretty damn solid ground with him.

As a white guy, the "n" word is not MY word, regardless of the situation. Blacks have earned the use of that word, as they choose to use it or not. I haven't.

It's just my opinion, and it's certainly not a personal attack, but if you're white, neither have you.

[arcane1]

12. what if you and he were listening to a song that said it..?

and you were both singing along? :shrug:

[MercutioATC]

18. Welllllll....

(insert big smile here)

Actually, I don't think you'd ever catch me singing along to a rap song. I don't think I'm THAT old, I just don't really identify with the music.

As a hypothetical, I'd have to say that I really don't know. I do believe, however, that singing along with a song is different than RECORDING a song. I'm not excusing either, but I do feel that there is a difference.

[arcane1]

20. I'm leaning the same way...

it's not something that is a part of my regular vocabulary, but neither are "MF" words, etc...

I'm thinking of replacing 2 out of 3 and adopting a "when in Rome" attitude towards the remaining 1 :)

[DoctorMyEyes]

24. exactly!

MercutioATC has explained it very well.

Please find another word. Even Eminem wouldn't get away with using it, and J-Lo has already had to apologize for overstepping her bounds - so I don't think you could expect to get away with it no matter how "non-racist" you are, or what context you were using it.

[SOteric]

11. Most of the uses I've seen in poetry slams and rap

where a white guy (or chick) is faced with using the 'n' word, they use the word 'dawg' instead.

White people always seem a little racist when using the word. No matter what their background, no matter how 'okay' their best friends may be with it.

[arcane1]

14. dawg won't work for me in this case...

not enough syllables, and it would sound like I'm talking about dogs in that context, lol

[SOteric]

21. Sure, that could be a valid concern...

how 'bout tossing some of the relevant text out to DU'ers and let the combined wit, talent and verbal skills of DU help you brainstorm some new, more socially sensitive lyric?

[arcane1]

22. ok. Note that this is a song about MIHOP...

Paris is so anti-Bush that there are some songs that I would never post on DU, the kind of stuff that would give Ashcroft his first erection in 25 years

*purges that thought* :puke:

this verse is all about the sheer utter bloody irony that black folks, of all people, are actually supporting Bush and his terrorist actions, due to the profound, and deliberate, effect of 9/11:

"now ask yourself, who's the one with the most to gain: Bush!
fore nine-eleven mother-fuckas couldn't stand his name: Bush!
now even niggaz wavin' flags like they lost their mind
everybody got opinions but don't know the time

cuz America's been took, it's plain to see
the oldest trick in the book is make an enemy
a phony evil so the government can do it's dirt
and take away your freedom- lock and load, beat and search

ain't nothin' changed but more colored people locked in prison
these pigs still beat us but it seeems we're forgettin'
but I remember fore September how these devils do it
fuck Guliani, ask Diallo how he's doin'!"



ahh, I love this song :evilgrin:

mine would have the vocals the same style, but the music is heavy as all hell!

-on edit-
I wonder if posting the lyrics falls under the same rules as singing them...? :shrug:

[Catholic Sensation]

15. instead of "nigga"

use a two syllable word that rhymes with it. nowadays lyrics don't have to make sense :)

[youngred]

16. Try Wigga/er

I've heard some white groups do covers containing the n word. Usually they omit it completely.

What song do you want to do? that would help with finding an alternative

[arcane1]

19. "what would you do" by Paris

I'm having a hard time finding anything that fits the rhythm/context, and not lose the power and irony of that verse

:evilfrown:

[youngred]

23. that is tough

peoples maybe?

[prolesunited]

25. In case anyone is interested

You can download the song and see the lyrics here:
http://www.911timeline.net/whatwouldyoudo.htm

It's a very powerful song. I can see why you would want to work with it.

"What would you do if you
Knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?
And then what if you saw
All of the things that's wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away

Hope you find a solution to your dilemma.
:hi:

[proud patriot]

33. hmmmmmm... What about

"even hippies wavin flags like thay lost their mind"

or
"even gangstas waving flags like they lost thier mind"

Or
"even punkass:crazy: waving flags like they lost their minds"

[MissMillie]

17. I NEVER use that word

and I don't like to be around people who use it, no matter what color they are.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

26. Thoughts from a black guy and a white chick.

Not that our melanin content matters, but it seems intrinsic to the thread topic. I grabbed my husband and asked him to submit his opinion too:

Spock_is_Skeptical, white chick
I am sure that this "has been done" in all probability. However, it is highly untasteful and unseemly. Witnessing such a rendition would cause me to roll my eyes and snort in disgust; it's just bad form.

RW, black guy
Well of course it's been done before, it just depends how you use the phrase... by the way, which song? Personally, I would say no. It wouldn't be wise for your sake. You don't want some black cat coming up and beating you down. I have heard Everlast use it, Eminem, and MC Search of 3rd Bass use it- not as a direct attack on black people, but speaking 'for' black people with that word.
You have to have props in the black community to pull it off.
Just any old person saying that is not wise, I would not advise it.
In general, a white person shouldn't say it, period.

[Tinoire]

27. How much license do you have to change anything in the song

How about gangstas?
or
evrybody instead of even niggaz?

Bear in mind though, from a poetic point of view, that that throws off the line

ain't nothin' changed but more colored people locked in prison

so you'd have to consider changing that too... more people snatched and locked? grabbed and?


Personally, I think you could use the word nigger because it's the original lyrics. I don't like the word but you can always blame it on Paris ;)

Alternative... you could even do the song in Metal and have Paris (or another Black person) sing those two verses? Kind of like Aerosmith and Run DMC Walk this way? Bad idea :shrug: Hey, I'm trying :)

Factoid, Lennon had a fabulous song called Woman is the Nigger of the World
Patti Smith/Lou Reed had Rock and Roll Nigger

but note that even Eminem studiously avoids using the word... once at the most I think... :shrug:

[arcane1]

28. well, it's pretty much for my own amusement

lol :)

so I guess I'm free to use whatever I want

I think I'll probably keep it in that verse, but avoid it in the others...

:hi:

[Tinoire]

35. Aw shucks

And here I was all excited to be adding to my collection of authographed CDs!

In that case lol, whatever's in your comfort zone is ok :)


:hi:

[TexasMexican]

29. What about the "m" word.

If you know spanish you might know what it is.

Are all racial slurs created equal? Or is the so-called N word the ace of spades in the racial slur deck of cards.

Personally I dont care if people use racial slurs, I'm a freedom of speech kind of guy myself and I'd rather have people openly tell me what they think of me instead of hiding it. Atleast that way I could respond in kind instead of going around ignorant of that fact.

As for the "n" word it doesnt bother me, why should it, I'm not black. Infact if some black guy did do something to me that really did piss me off I would probably use it, if not the "m" word. It apparently has some profound effect on some blacks that I can not really imagine.

Some people need thicker skin.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. So if you made someone mad and they called you "wetback"

would you get upset?

[TexasMexican]

41. ...

not particularily.

I would be more upset with thier attitude than the word they used, many words when given the right tone can sound just as dergitory.

[Karenina]

42. Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A:

"As for the "n" word it doesnt bother me, why should it, I'm not black. Infact if some black guy did do something to me that really did piss me off I would probably use it, if not the "m" word. It apparently has some profound effect on some blacks that I can not really imagine."

:wow: :wow: :wow:

[4323Lopez]

31. Spics, Crackers, and N's

I've been called spic so many times in my life, its lost all meaning and doesn't anger me at all. If you don't give the word any power, it has no power over you.
I use cracker sometimes to joke around. But would never say it to a white person directly. Plus, I like that rapper Uncle Cracker.
The N word, that's the only one I really don't care for. I've seen and heard people use it in such terrible ways. I've never used it and never would. I kind of like that black people use it amongst eachother, it defuses it and takes all the power out of it and makes the word worthless. Kind of like contemporary black artists like Lorna Simpson using degrading imagery in her art to flip-flop it.
White people should NEVER use that word, just the history behind it makes it a very wrong thing to do!

[TheZoo]

34. I hate that word, along with all..

Other stereotypical words for Irish, German, etc.

Dick Gregory once told his grandmother that whenever she was referred as a "n" that they were telling her that they read his book written in 1963.

[theemu]

37. NINJA

I'm a white kid who does some rapping in my spare time, and instead of saying the 'n' word, I always say 'ninja.'

in fact, here's a sample from the first rap i ever wrote:

Welcome to my pleasuredome, the mighty Xanadu
If you're looking for Kubla, I decree, "Fuck you"
My name is YT - the B-R-E
N I'm the Don who brings order to this entropy
I'm pale as Snow, but I'm cool as Ice
And if you're laughing at me, then you better think twice
'Cuz I'm white gold, and you're white trashes
And I'll bust a stupid rhyme that'll give you hot flashes
You fight with me, it'll be a collision
You know I'm hot like a dental technician
Bust you ninjas into pieces like nuclear fission
You step to me, you step away in derision.

[johnnie]

38. It;s just...

It's just a fuckin word. I get sick of hearin the whiney shit about who calls who what. I think people should just get over it. I have been called shrimp, small fry, shorty, little guy and everything else because I am shorter than the average man, it's just life. Who gives a shit? I had no say so in my height. I am 5'5" and it seems fine to me. If the so-called "n" word hurts people of color, oh well...

[mitchum]

40. But how many short people have been murdered or denied...

their civil rights because they were short?

It is far more than "just a fuckin' word"

[grannylib]

39. I hate any kind of derogatory term for minorities, ethnic groups, etc.

Even if it's a term that those within the group use to describe themselves, I don't think it's 'open season' for others to use it. IE, I sometimes refer to myself and some of my female friends as having an 'all-girl' event, but I am often offended if someone else refers to us as 'girls...'
maybe silly, but that's the way I feel!

[Meshuga]

43. Do white rappers say it?

I heard the beastie boys got in trouble back in the 80's for saying at their shows.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. No! It's Never Ok!

I don't think anyone should use the word, at any time, white, black, orange, purple or blue.
The Professor

[Kamika]

45. Its ok to use it as a non racial deregatory word if you are black

It's NOT ok when it's used as a deregatory "racial" word. The N word used as a deregatory non racial word seems to be ok.

Here an example

"you po ass Ni**er" spoken by a black person means this: "you poor suburban person who fits the stereotype of a african-american"

The problem which arises when a rich white person uses the word is that it gets racially connected. Here's an example

"you poor Ni**er" which gets associated to: "you are a poor person inferior to the white race"

Anyway if you are not connected to the suburban black scene OR the hiphop scene in ANYWAY.. PLUS you're white it will NOT be a success.

The only white person I know who can use the term and get away with it is currently Eminem

So anyway.. I do NOT recommend it.

[Sparkle]

46. What's the "m" word people keep talking about.

I'm clueless.

[TexasMexican]

47. ...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mayate&f=1

[Exultant Democracy]

48. This black guy says, Yes it is ok.

Especially in you case because the use of it in that song is deliberate.

[arcane1]

49. hey, cool user name!

:toast:


I'm leaning towards using it in that one case, omitting the other generalized uses. Too much power in those verses for me to go in there messing about with them

still, it's not like I'm going to be slapping this thing together in a week, so I have plenty of time to think about it!

thanks for the input LC!