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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:45 PM
Original message
My experiences with the homeless
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 10:57 PM by NightTrain
I came of age during the '70s and '80s, first in rural Storrs, Connecticut, and later in the Hartford suburb of Manchester. I was barely aware of the homeless population until I was in my early 20s and started doing office work as a temporary worker in downtown Hartford.

Though some (if not all) of you may find this hard to believe, I spent almost the first 23 years of my life convinced that I was a conservative! Mind you, I never voted Republican because I come from a family with strong ties to organized labor. But their union ties notwithstanding, my relatives were your typical working-class conmservatives, i.e. they had that mindset because they pretty much didn't know any better.

It was seeing all those homeless people in a comparatively small city like Hartford that started me questioning the hard-hearted conservatism under which I had been raised. I knew something was up as I sat at the bus stop late one afternoon next to a pair of well-dressed young women, only to have several grungy homeless people walk by us.

The first Yupette turned to her friend and asked, "God, where do those people come from?"

"I don't know," replied the other, "but I wish they'd go away."

"Really," said Yupette #1. "What do we pay the cops for, anyway?"

I felt irritated over what I had just heard but could not for the life of me figure out why.

Over the next several years of working in downtown Hartford, I saw ever-increasing numbers of homeless people, some of whom approached me for financial help. Most of the time I'd slip them a buck or, if I was short of cash, would apologetically tell them so.

Unfortunately, there was that one homeless man who caught me in a bad mood, causing me to snarl, "Piss off, I'm busy!" To which he replied, and justifiably so, "Well fuck you, you cocksucker!" To this day, I feel badly about my snap-angry reaction to that man's approach and would like to tell him so.

Then there was Dutch, a 50-something man who approached me in the parking lot of my bank and asked if he could wash my windows for a couple of bucks. Since my car windows actually were in need of a good cleaning, I told him yes.

As Dutch did his thing with his bottle of Windex and roll of paper towels, we got to talking. I can't remember too, too much of what we said to each other, but I do recall Dutch striking me as an arcitulate, intelligent man. I wanted to ask him how in god's name he had ended up in such a situation, but wasn't sure I really wanted him to answer.

In any event, when Dutch was finished cleaning my windshield (and he did an excellent job, BTW), I slipped him a ten dollar bill. He said that it wasn't necessary, but I insisted that Dutch take the money.

"I couldn't do this every week," I said, "but I can afford it now, and I want to do this for you."

I never saw Dutch again but still think about him a lot.

Sorry if I rambled on, but once I started, it was hard to stop!



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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Although you mean well, giving beggars money is misguided
So say the experts. A large percentage of them are addicted to drugs or alcohol. You can help the homeless in many other way, particularly by supporting homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Your heart is in the right place. Now just make sure your efforts aren't negated or even detrimental.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Untrue-A Lot of Homeless Can't Afford Housing or Are Mentally Ill
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 10:55 PM by RationalRose
I speak to homeless people all the time and know people who work in shelters. Many homeless men are veterans who have been denied treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder. Others have been turned out of mental institutions due to cutbacks. Others are working poor who can't afford a $2000 one-bedroom shithole in Boston,

you have bought the Republican Bullshit propaganda about homelessness.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. And you are?
As a newcomer to DU, please refrain from personal attacks. I do know what I'm talking about. My aunt runs Rosie's Place, the largest women's homeless shelter in the country.

My other friend is the Director of the Pine Street Inn, the largest shelter in New England.

Don't assume anyone is ignorant of the subject and don't provide right-wing news sources ans talking points to back up your BS.

Thanks.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. thanks RationalRose
I'm on the BOD of a homeless organization in NH - in fact, the executive director spent 15 years at the Pine St. Inn.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. Which organization? I've heard NH has had it bad in the past
few years with all the budget cuts and no income tax...
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. NH has it bad
For the reasons you mention, as well as the high cost of housing and the wage gap - though that's certainly universal.

It's the NH Coalition to End Homelessness, an umbrella group of advocates from different parts of the state.

One of my friends is a nurse practioner who runs a health clinic for homeless folks, out of Mass General. Thank heaven for the truly good people of the world - like your aunt.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Deleted message
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Show me a link that says I'm wrong.
Can you do it? LOLOLOLOL.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. nothing personal here
but you are violating the rules. There is no need to be insulting and condescending to other posters - especially since you haven't been here long enough to know anyone. You won't be here long enough to get to know us, more than likely. I see a tombstone in your future...
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Violating the rules?
I'm the one whose been called a right winger just because I provided a link that defended my assertion. Why not combat my assertion with facts and links (Could it be because you can't?)
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. I'm not referring to your "facts"
as you well know. It's your attitude and language that violate the rules - which you must be aware of, given how many of your posts on this thread have been deleted.

As for providing links - I have. Scroll down to my post "facts on homelessness."
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Hahaha! NO YOU DIDN'T --You backed up your baseless assertions..
with an ancedotal, biased article. You must beleive everything you read :eyes:

Go did up some documentation from an objective entity and them MAYBE someone will listen.

And temper your shitty attitude.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. A city manager who has a VESTED INTEREST in keeping homeless
people beyond his city limits is NOT who I would listen to in regards to homeless behaviour.

The worse he can make homeless people look, the better for him. Nothing like having a city hostile to the homeless to keep them at bay.

Your "experts" were shit. You have any articles by psychologists or sociologists who are studying homelessness? NO? then move along.
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Busted!
Yeah, you are so right. Sister Mary Scullion, head of project HOME, a homeless advocate group is SO hostile to the homeless.

Can you say 'busted'?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Can you say "anecdotal?" She can "guarantee" that 90% blah blah blah
She isn't basing her assertion on statistic information. Show me some statistics like Maxanne did below. You lost this one.

Can you say DUPID?
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. So you are saying the quotes and interviews in the link
from professionals who deal with and care about the homeless from the trenches...are all fabrications? LOLOLOL. Very weak. Try again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Deleted message
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Facts? One article you quote are facts?
Did you fail reading comprehension in grammar school?
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Let me post the link again, since you had the other scrubbed
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Wow, thanks for that, because what is more important is the article
that was linked to your post:
http://projects.is.asu.edu/pipermail/hpn/2002-May/006129.html
Controversial rescue mission lives on
Frankford food program moves down the block

_____________________________________
By ROSE DeWOLF - Philadelphia Daily News - May 10, 2002

THOSE WHO believed Jim Kelly's rescue mission, which gives away free bags of
food to the poor, would disappear from the 4400 block of Frankford Avenue know
otherwise now.

Kelly was evicted from the store building at 4433 - he had to be out by last
Tuesday. But Saturday saw him operating as usual from the store at 4425.

Elise Fisher is relieved. "I'm a single mother with six children. I make
minimum wage. He really helps me out," she said.

But Linda DeSouza, office manager for the non-profit arts organization
Frankford Style and a Democratic committeewoman, hoped Kelly would relocate
elsewhere.

"We want to create a clean, safe shopping district here," she explained.
"Merchants on the street complain that Kelly puts out trash on Saturday."
(It's collected on Tuesday.)

"And when people driving by see people waiting in line at the mission, they
get the wrong impression of Frankford Avenue. People don't have to shop here.
They can go on to Aramingo Avenue or to Juniata. It's not Jim Kelly's
intention to cause a problem for the merchants here," said DeSouza, "but
that's the effect he has had."
***********************************

Like I said, your article interviews people who are politicizing homelessness.

And, do YOU REALLY THINK that a messageboard is a viable source for supporting your rather weak argument?
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Funny how you omitted the interview with the homeless advocates
who are firmly against cash donations to 'homeless' beggars'
Hmmm.

I think I'll let people read my link in it's entirety, then draw the logical conclusion from it.....Giving money to addicted folks is a bad idea
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Facts? What facts? No one presented any statistical data in that
newspaper article. It was only a reporter's interviews with people who had an interest in removing homeless people from their city.

Show me a statistical study from an objective agency or nonprofit--if that article was the best you have, you better shut up and move along.
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. This link featured people who are homeless advocates
So since I provided documentation for my claims, the burden is on you to refute my claims with documentation. Otherwise, your blustery anecdotal claims aren't worth a pot to piss in.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. What claims have I made? NONE! I am just calling you on your nonexistent
evidence.

And, are you in the habit of posting messages from a message board as viable sources?

Really bad evidence...if you were in my class and that was the best you could present, you would earn an F.
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. So you say the interviews were concocted?
OK. Prove it. The burden is on you.

BTW.....STILL waiting for your link disproving my contention that most homeless advocates believe giving cash to 'homeless' beggars' is very detrimental. LOL.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Ya know, I've really kinda had enough
of you coming on here and putting people down who DO KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, unless they're saying something you don't want to hear. RationalRose knows more than you do, and just who do you think you are coming on here and smugly proclaiming to long-time posters that you know more than they do when you don't even know them at all.
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Devoir Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. I've provided a source, and I have more.
Why don't you show me a source refuting you. Or have you and Rosie only anecdotal bullshit to offer?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. You disputed their statements, it's up to you to provide OBJECTIVE
evidence to support your (ill-founded) claim. They have to provide nothing--you do. IF you had better evidence than that crap article you posted, now's the time to ante up.

Let's see an objective study, perhaps by a university or non-profit that supports your bombast.

*taps watch* ---Waiting....

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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. OK, I'll rephrase mine
Since I got knocked off too. Your link says that some panhandlers are not homeless. It did not say that the homeless are drug addicts or alcoholics. as you stated in about 20 posts on a previous thread.

MOds: I didn't think it was personal. I was attacking the link not the person. My apologies.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. ROFLMAO!
I was wondering when you were going to call him on that condescending patronizing "Rosie" bullshit! And, indeed, he probably has no idea at all what his screen name means. Maybe you should enlighten him?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. Panhandling and homelessness are not the same issue..what's your point?
I have done legal advocacy on homeless issues for years. The people panhandling at freeway exits have nothing in common with genuine homeless issues.

I have wrked on an advocacy org that sued city's for vagrancy laws designed to drive out homeless people, I have worked for two decades with an international organization that focuses on homelessness and hunger issues and have worked with a women's business group to groom other women who were out of work and homes and we got 100's of business suits donated, got hairstylists to work with the women, and coached them on skills and the art of interviewing for jobs.

While there are some that are drug addicts and some that are mentally ill..the sick thing is our society would rather criminalize these illnesses than TREAT them.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. ANECDOTAL BULLSHIT?
When RationalRose just told you her background, which involves a helluva lot more than "anectotal bullshit?" You quote ONE article from a wingnut talking-point newspaper filled with ANECDOTAL quotes and stories, versus Rose's background, and you fail to realize that all of your own bullshit is as "anecdotal" as you claim hers is!

And what about that statistic that almost 40 percent of the homeless are VETERANS????? VETERANS, for God's sake! And FAMILIES!! You can talk to the head of the homeless shelter in my county if you don't believe me, but since he won't say what you seem to want to desperately believe, I don't see the point. Facts are only facts to you if they're what you want to hear.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Oh, you should have seen his posts on my homeless thread,
they were real doozies. And yes, you're absolutely right about homeless vets, it's been estimated that around 40 percent of the homeless are VETERANS, a large proportion of whom are Vietnam veterans. That's just sickening, as far as I'm concerned, and inexcusable. But you can't seem to get that through to this guy.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I've seen a lot of Gulf War Vets recently
they're young. Many lost their families, are suffering illness from the war. Devoir parle beaucoup du merde. Il n'a pas un idee originale. C'est triste.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
46. I saw a man sleepinf in the doorway today.
It is a small city/town I live next to and it was after 10 in the morning. I asked about him in the lib. as it was building next door and they said he was ill and had a home but city had trouble keeping him there.You see so many now but first I have seen in this town. We have a good size church place here run by brothers of the cat. church and they really do a lot. They have a farm etc.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Oh, God, here we go again.
How many times do you have to hear that increasing numbers of homeless are families who lost the living-paycheck-to-paycheck roulette (yes, even middle-class families), people whose jobs don't pay enough for rent, especially in high-cost-of-living areas, the mentally ill, and CHILDREN, for God's sake. I don't think THEY are addicted to anything, and I can't honestly believe you do, either.

That's an old repuke talking-point stereotype, the same kind of bullshit as "there are plenty of jobs, people just don't want to work", when millions of jobs are being lost, businesses are cutting back, college graduates can't even get jobs at McDonald's or Wal-Mart, etc.

I hope to God you're never in that position, because then people will probably just point to you and say "stay away from him, he's just an addict."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. yup
and giving money to a drunk in withdrawal might save their life. Alcohol withdrawal is the only kind of drug withdrawal that kills.

As for experts - are you one of them?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
52. Excellent point!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. All you have is anecdotal stories from, mostly, people who have an...
interest in keeping homeless folks out of their city. Besides a nun in a homeless shelter who "can guarantee that 90%" are drug addicts (yeah, right, sister--let's see the study on which you base that statement) you have nothing.

Wanna impress me? Present a study by an objective entity that doesn't have a dog in the fight.

Otherwise, an article in which a city manager tells people not to give money to the homeless--a city manager who doesn't want those "bums" to consider his city benevolent and thus stay--is not at all impressive as an objective study.

Experts? HAHAHAHAHA! Now, it's time for YOU to go find some REAL data to support your statement.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nicely expressed-and I've been there too
I live in Boston. There are so many articulate homeless it's impossible not to hear a story of hardship. The vast majority are just working poor, or veterans. Lately I've seen a lot of families, and it truly breaks my heart.

I see homeless in European cities, but not like here in the states.
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks, Devoir, for turning my thread into a goddamned flame war
Incidentally, I clicked on that link you provided. Are you aware that the PHILADELPHIA ENQUIRER is a right-wing propaganda sheet? :tinfoilhat:
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
54. Night Train...I am sorry for my part in this becoming a flamefest...
You did a good thing. I have done the same thing with no regret.

I would rather err on the side of benevolence than on the side of asshole frugality like the other poster suggests.

Kudos to you :toast:
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NaMeaHou Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. 'nuff said
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NaMeaHou Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. Read this
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LastTime2BeFree Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
38. I wonder why the homeless don't move to San Fran
They get a monthy check and are well fed. All that and it's mostly warm there all year. If I ever become homeless that's where I'm headed.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. That's also not true-where did you hear that?
Just curious...
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
56. Excuse me?
They get a monthy check

From whom?

and are well fed
Actually California is one of the CRUELEST states to be homeless in anymore and more and more cities are passing ordinances to make even the charitable act of feeding homeless more difficult by restricting it


All that and it's mostly warm there all year
Maybe in April...after that it's actually not very temperate...about the only places out west where one can be homeless and warm for most of the year are San Diego and Yuma, Arizona rest stops.

If I ever become homeless that's where I'm headed.

I hope it never happens to you but if it does, San Francisco is very rough on the homeless..and doorways to roll your cardboard and blankets out in are hard to find.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. some facts on the homeless population
from the real professionals - not some right wing newspaper article

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/who.html

In 2001, the U.S. Conference of Mayors' survey of homelessness in 27 cities found that children under the age of 18 accounted for 25.3% of the urban homeless population.

Funny, how children were left out of the 99% mentally ill drug addict story Devoir is so high on.

In its 2001 survey of 27 American cities, the U.S. Conference of Mayors found that families comprised 40% of the homeless population

Approximately 22% of the single adult homeless population suffers from some form of severe and persistent mental illness

Not exactly the same information our nice new friend has been spouting.

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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Thanks, Maxanne.
Let's see if he can form a rational thought and not a talking point when faced with real facts.
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ronzo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
55. locking.
I'm sorry to have to lock this thread.

ronzoNOLA
DU Moderator
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