The Gay Marriage Thing: A Rant.

[Plaid Adder]

This is not going to be temperate. You have been warned.

I just wasted good time over in the GD forum trying to respond to a thread about whether the gay marriage issue is really a GOP plot. While I certainly think the GOP is pushing the issue--I wrote a column about that about a month ago, long before the MA court decision--I can already tell that there are many things about the coming discussions that we will have about this that are going to piss me off, and because I am not nice when I am pissed off especially about an issue that's important to me, I'm just gonna list a few.

If you do not want me biting your head off and breathing fire down your neck, here are a few simple DON'Ts:

1) DON'T tell me that gay marriage is a trivial or 'fringe' issue.

Because when you say that, you're basically saying that the question of whether I will be able to live in this country as a fully enfranchised citizen is not important. You know what, to me and other GBLT people this country, this issue is REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. Because it's not just about whether we can get married; it's about whether we are always going ot be second-class citizens whose custody rights will always be in jeopardy, whose partners cannot emigrate to this country, and who will always be sold up the river by the Democratic Party because they want the right to use *us* as a punching bag instead of them.

2) DON'T tell me that the smart thing for the Democratic candidates to do is to come out against gay marriage.

I happen not to think it is ever smart to sell out a significant chunk of your base, and that's what we are. Clinton got elected with our help in 1992 and then failed us miserably on the ban on gays in the military. We are sick, sick, sick and tired of the party courting us quietly and then treating us like lepers as soon as the heat gets turned up. You stick to your guns or else your opponent murders you; that's how politics works. Bout time the Democrats learned that; it's a lesson they might profitably apply to a few other issues.

3) DON'T cry "PC Police" when a GBLT DUer tells you your post about gay marriage was offensive.

I've been around the forums for a long time and I'll tell you right now that DU has a LOT of growing to do on this issue. If you are a straight DUer and you have always wanted a better understanding of gay issues and your GBLT brethren and sistren, now is a great time to start cultivating it, and the best way to do that is to *listen* when your fellow DUers talk to you, even if what they say is not exactly what you want to hear. If you are a straight DUer and you just wish us uppity GBLT people would go away and stop making trouble for all the *real* Democrats, well, you're entitled to your opinion, and I hope you have an asbestos jumpsuit handy.

4) DON'T forget that for GBLT DUers, this is not just an ideological or pragmatic issue. It's personal, and it hurts.

It hurts a lot. Because we know that from now until January 2004 we are going to wake up every day to the same load of right-wing claptrap about what a menace to society we are. If you haven't had the experience of listening to pundits on TV and the radio nod sagely while some right-wing nutjob explains to them that you personally are evil, sick, and perverse, and therefore should not have a full set of civil and legal rights, well, you are in no position to tell us we're being oversensitive.

I have been an out lesbian in a long-term relationship for 15 years now. I have been listening to the same tired BULLSHIT trotted out by the right over and over and over again. It just makes me weep to think that there are still people in this country who buy it wholesale. You talk to GBLT people about this and you get the same reaction everywhere: Why do they hate us so much? What the hell did we ever do to them? How come the life I lead as a GBLT American bears absolutely NO resemblance to what these people tout as the "homosexual lifestyle"? Couldn't we just sit them down and explain it to them?

We are one of the last groups in this country on whom it is still open season, politically and legally. Politicians can get up and say shit about gay people that would *never* be countenanced if they were talking about African-Americans, Jewish Americans, women, anyone--and nobody will call them on it. It is still acceptable for mainstream politicians to hate us, to demonize us, and to bash us in public. We still have no federal protection from employment and housing discrimination. The legislative and executive branches of the federal government have been a complete letdown on this issue. The courts are the ONLY institution that has stood by us and even that is too much for most politicians on both sides of the aisle.

We are sick of it, we are sick and tired and we've had it, and if you goad us over this issue, sometimes some of us are just gonna snap and let you have it, even if it's against our better judgment.

Am I happy that this is now a major campaign issue? Not really. It will increase the storm of shit that my partner and I have to deal with from the media establishment and the GOP a hundredfold. But on the other hand, I *am* happy--very happy--about that MA court decision, and you ahve to take the bad with the good. So what the hell, bring it on. I lived through "Don't Ask Don't Tell Don't Have A Fucking Spine" and I'll live through this.

But I'm gonna be cranky. Just so you know.

Come and get me, Rick Santorum,

The Plaid Adder

[Pale Blue Dot]

1. Amen. nt

[Paragon]

2. Wouldn't hear any of that from me

If it were a "fringe" issue, we wouldn't be hearing about it -- you know, like the 9/11 investigation.

Fundies, in full disgusting mode, are using it as a wedge issue to pump up their equally ugly base.

There was an essay (which I may have read on Slate) written by a gay man saying that the reason the GL community can't feel legitimized in this culture is that they have nothing to look forward to, as far as marriage and starting "nuclear-style" families.

Beautifully yet painfully written, really opened my eyes. If I can find the link again, I'll post it. Thanks for your thoughts.

[La_Serpiente]

3. this post is a keeper

I don't know why we are backing down on this issue. GLBT have traditionally supported Democrats overwhelmingly for a very long time. We shouldn't be backing down on this issue simply because Karl Rove will use it as a wedge issue. The reason why the Republicans have won on this issue is simply because we haven't stood firm on it. We have not presented an alternative argument on it.

So who has filled the vaccum? It has been the Republicans. Instead of praising the Mass. decision, prominent Democrats backed down or refused to comment on it. So who fills the vaccum of ideas? It is the hate of vitriol from the right wing to flood the debate, not the Democrats. I view this as the principal reason why Democrats have not made any gains on this issue.

I have grown to the point as a gay person that "civil unions" is ok for now. Marriage is the main goal, but anything is better than nothing. Heck, we cannot even get to the civil unions issue until we touch on the gays in the military issue.

[bloom]

4. I just finished watching the Iowa debate...

I was glad to see that it was defined as a civil rights issue - by (all? or nearly all) of the candidated.

[alexwcovington]

5. You've got a right to be cranky.

But don't forget there are a lot of people on your side in this one, even if the other guys are controlling the debate right now. Large minorities can turn into majorities quickly and unexpectedly. Keep pressing the issue, and eventually people will accept it. This is true in any civil rights struggle, this one, and future ones. (and yes, there WILL be ones in the future, so please don't mind if *I'm* a bit cranky when you say that your fight is the last one)

Fight the good fight, and you will win.

[woofless]

6. You GO girl.

Plaid Adder rocks. Rant on. I always read what you write and thank you for it. For what it's worth I am white, straight, fat, over 50 and not married to my partner. You keep on tellin' and we will keep shoutin' AMEN!

Woof

[niyad]

7. not that it helps a whole lot, but this het DUer is completely on your

side. It appals me that this is even an issue, let alone an issue in the 21st century in a country that is supposed to be about freedom and the "pursuit of happiness".

as a wiccan priestess and a licensed minister in the home of amendment 2 , I do perform handfastings and blessing ceremonies, but I know, it just isn't the same. So, until every state and township recognizes gay marriages, I am going to continue to harrass the jerks who "represent:" this state, and work on getting something other than right-wing ultra-conservatives into office.

Blessed Be

[roughsatori]

10. It helps me more then you might realize.

It gets so strange reading posts by legally privileged citizens post about why my rights are not worth fighting for at this time. It is nice to read your post. Thanks.

[niyad]

11. it is exactly the same argument used against women getting the vote--

couldn't do it because of the war, couldn't do it for this reason, that reason, etc., etc, Not now, it isn't the time, ad nauseum, ad infinitem.

well, none of us are going away, and we won't shut up. they don't like it, they can just pass the legislation and they won't have to listen to us anymore. simple, yes?

[foreigncorrespondent]

8. Very well said, my friend.

You have said everything I have been feeling and could never find the words for. Thank YOU!!!!

I just got called a "fucking troll" because I snapped at someone for typing a phraise that was an insult to all lesbians. And people tell me every day that there isn't any homophobia here at DU. These people don't face the slams that we face, and so are blinded to it.

Thank YOU again, Plaid Adder for speaking for me and every other GLBT person on thses boards, and in this world.

[roughsatori]

9. I love your post and thank you for taking the time to write that

and AMEN Sister.

[Silverhair]

12. Clinton did NOT fail you in the ban on gays in the military.

He tried to issue such and order as you wanted, and discovered that his knowledge of military matters was woefully inadequate. He did not have the authority. The law that governs the military is called the UCMJ for Uniform Code of Military Justice, and is an act of congress from the Eisenhower administration. To chance that would have required an act of congress, and he didn't have the votes for it.

He did however sign the DOMA, but that is a different thing. My comments are concerning the military only.

[foreigncorrespondent]

14. Tell that to the nine...

Arabic translators who got booted out for being gay, when there is a need for Arabic translators.

[Silverhair]

31. Clinton did not have the authority to make the changes.

What part of that don't you understand? He tried, and was told that it would take an act of congress. Do you know what an act of congress is? Clinton discovered that the President can't just order the military to do anything he wants to do. He was restriced by the UCMJ.

I will say it again so you can understand.

CLINTON DID NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THE CHANGES THAT YOU WANTED MADE.

[foreigncorrespondent]

49. Clinton...

...folded from preasure by the repukes! He signed it! He made it law!

[Sting]

13. I totally agree with what you're saying...

but I'm going to go one step further: homosexuality should not even be in politics. As humans, we should be able to accept people for who they are, and not bottom-feeding monsters that Repubublicans make them out to be.

But, as many of you think, the issue has to be in politics. Some people (Pat Robertson) are pushing their right-wing, bible-thumping propaganda saying how much God is against homosexuality. I, as a Christian, do not recall EVER reading about how homosexuality is wrong according to Him. To me, that's made-up RW bullshit.

Another thing that irks me is how Republican assholes think they can pry into peoples' personal lives. My God, let a person live life how she/he wants to live it. It's none of their damn business.

I'm glad the MA court made their decision. I just hope the other states follow. It would be nice to see everyone treated equally.

I'm probably living in a dream world.

Sad, sad, sad world we are living in. :sigh:

I hope people will listen to your message, Plaid Adder. I just want you to know I support you 100% and I'd love to see you get treated like everyone else. Keep up the good fight! :hi: :yourock:

[SemperEadem]

36. because Americans mainline fear

" As humans, we should be able to accept people for who they are, and not bottom-feeding monsters that Repubublicans make them out to be.

But, as many of you think, the issue has to be in politics. Some people (Pat Robertson) are pushing their right-wing, bible-thumping propaganda saying how much God is against homosexuality."

It is because of fear that this is even in the agenda. People love to be whipped up into a fear-filled froth over non-issues or remaining in blessed ignorance because they love the distraction the adrenaline gives them.

It is a tactic as old as this country--starting with the Puritans, who were driven from every other country in Europe before settling in America. Fear, fear, fear!!! They ruled by religous fear and fear of community abandonment.

As a result, we can't get enough of it, and if it can be applied to something as base as one's religious beliefs, then the more, the better. Pat Robertson and those of his ilk are fear pushers, and just as dangerous to our children as drug pushers are. They cause the same degree of damage in their respective realms.

[Aradia]

15. Well said

It's horrible that we are still 'debating' such issues. When are we going to
get out of the dark ages anyway? Everyone should have equal rights under the
law ... not everyone except for _____ (fill in the blank).

[newyawker99]

25. Hi Aradia!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[maxanne]

16. amen Plaid Adder

and hallelujah. You are right on. I'm sorry that so many are so cowardly. I'm embarassed to be straight sometimes. :grr:

[FloridaJudy]

17. You get no argument from me

The idiots who oppose "gay marriage" are the same cretins who outlawed interracial marriage fifty years ago (and they are definately not invited to any of MY family re-unions; we're the rainbow/multigendered tribe!).

I find it disturbing that anyone would try to prevent two adults who care for each from making a formal commitment.

And sad that so many GLBT people can't count on their families to celebrate it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. I so agree PA

I just cringe when I hear should the Dems give up....women's issues, GLBT issues..etc or use them as a cynical trade off.

Whose rights should we IGNORE so we can win? Win what?

[OneBlueSky]

19. sorry, Adder . . . this GLBT disagrees . . .

"DON'T tell me that gay marriage is a trivial or 'fringe' issue."

okay, I won't tell you that . . . what I will opine is that this is an issue that we can address if and when we get a Democrat elected . . . there are s-o-o-o-o many issues of critical imporatance to all Americans that those which primarily impact one particular group must necessarily, I feel, take a back seat for now . . . that's not to say that the issue doesn't affect everyone in some way or another, and that's not to say it's not important . . . it's simply a matter of priorities, and right now my one and only priority is getting rid of George W. Bush and his cronies . . . everything else is secondary . . .

[Liberal Veteran]

23. But you know what?

For a lot of people, it will a secondary issue no matter what. There will always be some other political brass ring that must be obtained first. And everyone will be afraid to stand up and be counted because they can't take the heat of a little political fallout. Principled leadership doesn't mean sticking your finger in the wind.

If left to their own device, the issue of recognition of gay relationships will always be "Cakes yesterday, cakes tomorrow, but never cakes today.".

[soleft]

43. "Take a Back seat for now"??????

And where would that back seat happen to be? On the bus? On the prairie in Wyoming?

If we live in a country where a candiate is unelectable because he or she supports civil unions and equal treatment under the law, then we may as well live in a country that is lead by George W. Bush.

[Susang]

20. I'm totally with you PA

I'm sick of people telling me what issues I support are trivial and "fringe". So I'll be cranky right along with you. Maybe if we're cranky enough, we'll get some action.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. Maybe we can start a PAC

Political Activist Cranks :hi:

[Susang]

24. I like that idea

I've got the "crank" part down pat. :-)

[Cheswick2.0]

42. Can I join?

I am cranky about no gay marriage, having abortion rights labled unimportant by certain Green party members and the fact that African American candidates are held to a much higher standard than the rest of the candidates. I am also sick of being told we should abandon sensible gun control and afirmative action...unions.....the list goes on.

[Liberal Veteran]

21. And Furthermore.....

Don't dare try try to tell me how "lucky" I am to be living in America, the so-called land of the free when this is about the only First World country in the world left that treats me like a second-class citizen and refuses to acknowledge the 14 years I have spent with the man I love.

[GOPisEvil]

26. Crank away! This is a civil rights issue.

14th Amendment - Equal Protection Under The Law, and that business. A class of people simply want the same rights afforded to everyone else. It really is that simple. Or, at least, it is to me. :shrug:

[Snow]

27. Also separation of church & state.....

I was involved in trying to stop the DOMA in Nebraska (I know, I know, but ya gotta try, what?), and this country is unusual of its mixing of a religious ceremony with legal certification. There's a mindset in need of change in that regard.

[Coventina]

48. Marriage vs. Civil unions

My PERSONAL opinion is that the government needs to get out of the "marriage" business altogether. "Marriage" as a religious institution needs to be a church thing, not a government thing. Do your own wedding, handfasting, whatever. Make it about your beliefs and your relationship, but with no legal ramifications.

The government should sanction civil unions between any two consenting adults. Simple contract, sign date, witnessed, etc. No clergy involved.

Why is that so hard? This would benefit so many people. Like my grandmother, who wants to marry her boyfriend, but being two people in their eighties it would be somewhat of a legal nightmare, so they won't bother. If "marriage" was strictly religious, they could have the ceremony, feel right in the eyes of their God, and not have to worry about changing wills, etc.

The insanity of our current system hurts the GLBT community, and many others besides.
Just my two cents.

[THUNDER HANDS]

28. this does lead to a bunch of seperate questions though....

1. Is this the proper time for a fight over gay marriage?
2. Do we have to resources to win such a fight?
3. Do we have a strategy to preserve victory, should we win?
4. Do we have a Plan B - should our initial strategy falter?
5. What do we do with conservative democrats in Southern states on this issue?

My answers:

1. Yes, it's the right time. If not now, then never.
2. Legally, yes. Politically, no.
3. Probably not.
4. Probably not.
5. Arm-twist like crazy and pray.

[regularguy]

29. Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This rant as well as your column last month should be required reading for every last American!

[geniph]

30. The right wing has become so sophisticated at this,

at putting the hot-button issues that polarize ordinary folks to the forefront. They're the issues that are almost unresolvable because people hold deep, emotional opinions about them - guns, reproductive rights, gay rights, race, gender, capital punishment, religious freedom - fundamental issues, but not those like the economy, foreign policy, education, and healthcare which are the legitimate business of government. They've been trying to legislate these issues in the media, or by "popular consensus."

The majority believing something does not make it right. Centuries of tradition do not make something immutable. If either of those things were true, African-Americans would still be in bondage and women would still not be allowed to vote or own property. Sometimes the cultural zeitgeist shifts to the point where it becomes clear that equal protection under the law means equal protection for all.

I fail to see why I should have any reaction to two men or two women wanting to marry other than to wish them every happiness. I fail to see in what way GLBT folks wishing to make a commitment to one another in any way has an adverse effect on my own commitment to my partner.

There's a lot of red herrings being thrown out by those who are frightened of this, or any other, social change: that this will be a slippery slope to bestiality, incest, polygamy, pedophilia. All of those are nonsense, and EVERY one of those arguments were used, with equal illogic, when the same coterie of Neanderthals was fighting against the legalization of interracial marriage. I recently saw a new red herring, even sillier: that society has a duty to protect the health of its citizens, and "homosexuality is hazardous to their health and life." Um. Setting aside the absurdity of free-market conservatives suddenly believing society has a duty to protect its citizenry, there's a very bizarre statement in there. Promiscuity may be hazardous to one's health, but part of the basic premise behind marriage is that the married couple will be less promiscuous; therefore, if the first clause of their statement is accurate, they should be promoting GLBT marriage.

[rbnyc]

32. kick

:kick:

I hope everyone reads this.

[Liberal Veteran]

33. One thing to keep in mind about saying "It's not the right time"...

By doing so, you are tacitly acknowledging gay marriage as a fringe issue.

[arwalden]

34. Thank You For This Marvelous Post.

Excellent work.
Well done.
Nicely stated.
Beautifully worded.
Explained splendidly.

-- Allen

[Bertha Venation]

35. Hear fucking hear, Plaid Adder.

Well said!

[Screaming Lord Byron]

37. It's not about gay marriage, it's about human rights.

The right like to make it about 'gay marriage' because they know it'll offend the largest number of people possible.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. You tell it like it is, Sister!

Go ON Plaid Adder with your bad self!

[ronnykmarshall]

39. You tell it like it is, Sister!

Go ON Plaid Adder with your bad self!

[adamblast]

40. Thanks for the rant!

As a newbie here (a week or two...) I was already getting so much flak about this "fringe" and "loser" issue that I was starting to contemplate jumping to the Greens...

I understand that for some people this will never be an issue of importance compared to, say,the environment or foreign policy. But it's damn offensive to tell us to just shut up and sit in the back of the bus like good little queers...

We did not pick the timing of this fight, but no one has the right to tell us not to fight it.

"NOW" will never be the time for many people. Democrats who haven't got the guts to debate this as a basic civil rights/human rights issue are in no position to tell us that it's "not our time yet" for rights they take for granted.

[geniph]

44. Welcome to DU, adamblast

and stick around - I really think the thoughtful, considerate people do outweigh the bigoted and intolerant, they just aren't as loud sometimes.

:hi:

[Skittles]

41. I don't understand why ANYONE wants to be married

but I understand your points anyway, PA. :thumbsup:

[liberalhistorian]

45. LOL!

n/t

[Sapphocrat]

46. As always...

I wish I'd written that, PA. You knock me out.

And I hope this gets kicked to the top until the next DU software upgrade.

[Duncan Grant]

47. A big thank you from me... and my 'husband'!

Bravo PA! All too often 'our' patience is mistaken for weakness, especially in GD. It's about time that a thoughtful and heartfelt rant put this issue in its proper context.

A million thanks to you! :kick:

[jukes]

50. "The Gay Marriage Thing: A Rant."

If we sit in the middle of the road we won't win a godam thing.
If we don't support the freedom & rights of ALL our people, we don't deserve to.

Sick to death of compromise and hafast liberals.

Props to you, G/F!