NEVER pass a homeless person...

[Tyler Durden]

...without tossing them at least a coin if you aren't dead broke.

There but for the grace of GOD go you, and if the rePukes have their way, you might make it yet.

For those of you who say "pass them by," beg your pardon but FUCK YOU. There is precious little time here, and to be so petty and judgemental invites the same to you.

And just for the record, I speak from experience. I was homeless for the first 5 months of 1974, in one of the worst Michigan Winters of the decade.

To quote my hero, Kurt Vonnegut:

"A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved."

- Sirens of Titan

And:

"Welcome to Earth, babies. It's cold and wet and crowded. At the outside, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule I know of - God damn it, you've got to be kind."
- God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater

If this does not click, go get your DNA checked: you may not be a human being.

[LastTime2BeFree]

1. What of the homeless is a known drug abuser?

And you know that your coin will add to his habit. Still toss it?

[Lars39]

3. You think NOT tossing a coin will cure him of his addiction?

[Tyler Durden]

4. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I'm not exactly a Christian, but I do believe in Karma, and I Fuck with mine at my own risk.

Do what you want with yours, but even drug addicts occasionally buy food. I knew heroin addicts that still ate once in a while.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. What if you don't toss him the coin and he resorts to stealing

in order to tend to his addiction, thereby becoming a criminal rather than sick? Are you still doing him or anyone else a favor?

[LastTime2BeFree]

12. That would then be extortion or at least blackmail

Are you saying that anyone that claims to be homeless can extort coins from us because they will break the law otherwise? That's not how I was raised and I'll never let another blackmail me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. No and that isn't the legal definition of blackmail nor extortion

I was simply commentng on what is known as the law of unintended consequences.

[LastTime2BeFree]

21. Fine and dandy

I'll help anybody that needs it but I draw the line at supporting another persons habits. If the are that sick then they need taxpayer supported help if they have no family.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. You're right...surviving and coping is a nasty habit

[maxanne]

8. what if he goes into

alcohol convulsions and dies? A drink might save his life.

If you give a check to someone as a wedding gift, do you tell them what you want them to buy with it?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

9. You contributed a comment to the last thread

that proved your unfamiliarity with the subject of homelessness. If you toss a coin to a known alcoholic or drug addict how does that affect you? Who are you to judge? What if the person is a homeless veteran who has been denied treatment by the governemnt that he fought for, and his only relief from chronic pain is drug abuse? What if the person is mentally ill, can't afford prescription drugs but street drugs are cheaper and keep the voices at bay so he or she can at least take care of themselves?

Try walking in their shoes, and realize that 40% of the homeless are veterans, and another 25% are children under 18. Doesn't leave much room for your theory of depraved drug addiction.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. You know Rose that is true

My aunt passed away a couple months ago but in her life she had been instrumental in forcing the NAvy in San Diego to provide Equal access for female abusers after my cousin became a heroin addict (while IN the NAVY courtesy of OTHER addicts in the Navy) She found her daughter on the streets of SD and FORCED the NAvy to convert an area of their male treatment center into a facility to dry out my cousin. THis was in the 70's.

Then of course..during the Reagan years, the military decided it wasn't their responsibility...now everyone is on their own.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. The Vets have no recourse now

they are taking away basic medical care-forget about mental health or substance abuse treatment.

That's quite a story, NSMA, I hope your cousin is OK now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. She drinks too much but isn't hooked on heroin anymore

She raised two sons who are now grown and knows her mom isn't here to rescue her anymore. My aunt was a powerhouse though... a really great lady..I miss her.

[LastTime2BeFree]

27. Street drugs are never cheaper than legit purchases

Pain medication goes for a buck a milligram regardless if it's oxycodone, hydrocodone, codeine, fentanyl etc. When bought legit it's about 1/10 of that so please spare me the BS.

The homeless should e dealt with by family or taxpayers not coin tossers.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

34. That's untrue-in Mass you can buy a bag of heroin for $5

Most homeless do not have health insurance and very few states provide drug benefits. Even in liberal Massachusetts.

No need to get nasty. This is not BS-it's factual. You have done nothing but show your ignorance and lack of empathy for the poor and downtrodden. Now that is sad.

[LastTime2BeFree]

42. How many milligrams of H for a Fin?

How much relief does it provide?
I'm not nasty and now am asking you to back up that accusation.......

[geniph]

81. Rush? Is that you?

I figure if anyone knows the precise going rate for oxycontin on the street and in the pharm these days, it'd be Mt. Rushbo...

[Devoir]

95. Many homeless and almost all beggars are addicts.

This has been pretty throroughly documented already

[xJlM]

86. Maybe it will help him hit a bottom

NO addict is going to stop until the pain of addiction becomes more than he can bear (and sometimes not even then). If my giving him enough to get a cheap bottle of wine or work on getting a bag will bring him closer to that bottom, that's money well spent (in my opinion).

[flamingyouth]

2. Not trying to yank your chain

But how do you tell if a person is homeless or not? I see a lot of people begging for spare change outside the Harvard Market QFC and a lot of them look pretty well outfitted in expensive piercings and leather goods. However, I've worked in homeless shelters that house families and by looking at some of those working folks (toiling away at janitorial jobs, etc.), you'd never know that they had to sleep in their car at night.

How does a well-meaning person tell who's homeless or not?

[Tyler Durden]

6. Why do you need to make that call?

Can you spare 50 cents? A buck buys two hot dogs at 7/11.

After going hungry and cold for 5 months, I have decided that call is not mine to make anymore. Too many people looked past the fact that I was not in rags, but needed a meal.

Make that call at your own risk.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tyler Durden]

7. Why do you need to make that call?

Can you spare 50 cents? A buck buys two hot dogs at 7/11.

After going hungry and cold for 5 months, I have decided that call is not mine to make anymore. Too many people looked past the fact that I was not in rags, but needed a meal.

Make that call at your own risk.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. I do agree with that concern

We have three guys that work three exits in San Diego who are not homeless. THe city has known about them for years. Local news has followed them. They alternate exits, have cardboard signs "will work for food" and are basically running a racket. Same thing with a lot of guys that carry gas cans and do the "I need a gallon of gas" story...if you do work in the shelters though, I believe after a while you get a sense of who is scamming you and who isn't.

I'll always help somehow though...money or food.

[Tyler Durden]

18. I once watched an old man cry....

I was in Houston, and it was a rare cold day.

An old, dirty man was standing under the freeway, with a sign that just said, "PLEASE!"

I had my kids in the car, and I had just gone through a fast food drive through. I went back to the drive through and got a BIG bargain meal with an extra coffee, drove back to the man who was still sitting under the freeway, and gave him the food and a five. He looked me in the eyes, stammered, and started to cry. I made to help him up, and he just smiled through the tears and shook his head, and waved goodbye. I cried like a baby for the next hour, and my kids cried too. None of us EVER pass a homeless person asking for help.

[UCLA02]

63. I drive thru downtown LA every morning on my way to school

stressing over how law school is going and how every exam is like life and death, until I stop at the Jack in the Box drive thru and as I'm ordering see the guy across the street sleeping next to his shopping cart. He's homeless. Not much grey-area there. The other day I ordered a few extra Breakfast Jacks and dropped them off next to him. He didn't even wake up, numb to the busy street rushing by, I guess.

Kinda puts my bitching about those goddam law school exams in perspective.

[Cheswick2.0]

84. God Bless you Tyler

I agree with you 100 percent on this topic.

[maxanne]

11. you can't

there is no way to tell. Homeless people aren't the only ones who need money.

There are people who are pretending to be homeless, to cash in. They are infintismal compared to the number of real homeless people.

[LastTime2BeFree]

17. If someone is nursing a piercing they will get no cash from me

Anybody that puts holes in their body can put food in their mouths instead.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. I noticed on your profile that you live in California

From your post on the other thread, I assume you live in Southern California since you posted you would move up to San Francisco if you were homeless.

If you ARE in fact in Southern California, specifically the Los Angeles area, I recommend walking the Promenade near bedtime and see who is parking on those green benches wrapped up for the evening...lots of older people near retirement age.

It's sad. As I said on the other thread, I really hope you never are homeless but if you are I hope those you meet will have more compassion than you seem to be able to muster up on this topic.

[LastTime2BeFree]

32. I'll put a bullet in my head before I'll bum for money

I have worked since I was thirteen and have always fended for myself. There is always work out there for the people that are willing to feed themselves. Sure it's not a career path but it feeds the belly and beats asking for handouts. As I said, taxpayers or family need to help the homeless...not coin tossers. What is wrong with that?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

35. You're not living in reality

By the time you're old, there will be no social security. Unless you're independently wealthy, the cost of living and prescription drugs will probably eat up what pension you have.

Again, your lack of reality and empathy is truly astounding...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. I too have always fended for myself

but I also realize that there are a whole host of disabilities that can affect one's life.
In my job, I have seen people like you who were very proud and strong or talented go from having nice homes, to losing it after a protracted disability. If their years on top were short, they didn't have that much in a social security account and their draw was not very large since what you collect is dependent on your lifetime earning capacity.

IF you read Arianna Huffington's book, you will see that many of the most elite charitable organizations give their money to elite causes. Funds are drying up to care for truly underprivileged people.

Some people's families have died. As I said in my post...get out there and look for yourself...a lot of homeless people are old.

It's nice to think you are invincible and capable...in fact, for most of us it is a healthy place to come from...in the real world not all of us are nor can we be.

My religious upbringing focused on whether or not my life was spent doing good work. While I am not terribly religious, I am glad the spirit of contribution was engrained in me at an early age.

[LastTime2BeFree]

47. I hear you and agree

My opinion is still that the needy need collective help and not money from above. We are more alike than different.

[Tyler Durden]

51. There isn't enough "collective help."

There aren't enough shelters in any city, and the ones they have are dirty (not the major concern, but lice are hard to kill) and dangerous.

The Salvation Army runs out of food regularly.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. Fair enough...but collective help comes from either religions

living up to their promise or from the political will to make it happen. After the Reagan years, homelessness was enough of an issue for the political will to be there to address it. An unfortunate side effect of our BOOM years was now everybody thinks they're poor whether it's real or not.

[Tyler Durden]

38. You really don't know, do you?

It can happen at any time. You lose your job three days before the rent is due and you needed that check for groceries.

You're SCREWED. And you have obviously never tried to get AID without an address or dependents.

NOBODY hires someone whose clothes are dirty or needs a bath. SURE you can get day labor, but you can't pay rent with it.

I TRIED ALL THESE THINGS, and eventually pulled myself out with a lie that I knew how to install toilets. I installed 200 toilets at 5 bucks a pop, lying about an address and using the empty apartments to save up.

If you haven't been there, you don't know.

[LastTime2BeFree]

52. I have installed toilets too

Some required two or more wax seals to make a fit due to sloppy plumbing or nasty flooring. In my area we call them "closets" and not toilets due to some profession I don't remember. To this day I don't call a plumber or dial 911 when the need arises.

[UCLA02]

64. Nah, Santa Monica's too "nice," even at night...

Send LastTime2BFree downtown in the early evening. You can set your watch by it as at 5 o'clock so many cardbord boxes come out you can hadly see the cold sidewalk for blocks. Its a cardboard city after dark down there, like out of a bad movie.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. Spare changing sucks.

I can tell you that from experience. No you can't be sure that someone spare changing is homeless. But I'll bet they're pretty darn broke even if they are sporting 'expensive piercings and leather goods'.

[NightTrain]

97. You do make an interesting point

<<How does a well-meaning person tell who's homeless or not?>>

I figure, if the person is grungy, looks down and out, and is desperate enough to beg a perfect stranger for a lousy dollar, it doesn't matter whether that individual is actually homeless. He obviously is in need, and if I can help him out even a little bit, I will. If I'm short of cash, I will explain that to him in the most diplomatic terms I can think of.

Best I can tell you....

[WilliamPitt]

14. I REALLY freaked an old girlfriend out once

by saying, "How do you know that homeless person isn't Jesus? He may be testing you. How many times have you failed? After all, if you're Christian, then you have to be on the side of the poor. What better way for Jesus to come back?"

She was religious. It bugged her out for weeks. She always did a double take at every homeless person we saw...and then gave them money.

[Tyler Durden]

20. How about this, Will?

Like I said, I'm not exactly a Christian, but this works for me:

1Cor.13
<1> Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
<2> And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
<3> And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
<4> Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
<8> Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
<13> And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

[WilliamPitt]

22. Bingo

[Tyler Durden]

25. Whatever happened to REAL CHARITY?

This "do they DESERVE it" nonsense is so "ME Generation."

Let them stand outside behind a Chinese restaurant in Ann Arbor Michigan, in a January snowstorm, PRAYING that they'll be as nice as they were the other night because you are STARVING as I did and then I will STILL tell them they need to lear REAL CHARITY.

[camero]

24. That is a very good point.

It could be. Stranger things have happened.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

26. Funny...I was just thinking about a half hour ago

that if there was a "second coming", and it happened now, Jesus would probably be a homeless person.

Good for you for making her think!

[Sting]

29. I say...

give the less fortunate some money when you see them. Who cares what they do with it. When I work at my job, my supervisor doesn't tell me what to spend my money on. Besides, the less fortunate would appreciate it highly if you gave them some money, regardless what they spend it on.

I say we should help each other out. Someday, one of us may be in that spot of the homeless person. Remember that.

[Zomby Woof]

31. I got to know plenty in Seattle

I'd give them any spare change I had, and always made eye contact, and say hello. If I was eating a big fat American sandwich to enlarge my big fat American ass, I'd tear off a piece for them. I never missed it. I will admit some were hostile or hard to understand, so I'd say hi or nod, but walk away quickly. Some you just couldn't give money to, because they could be unpredictable. Just went with the vibe. But I never harbored any ill-will, or conveyed indifference to what are largely the invisible among us.

My favorite encounter was with Elaine. A few of us were hanging out in the alley behind the Fenix Aboveground (this was in Seattle), hitting a couple of 40's before a concert. Elaine came walking down - indeterminate age - could have been 20, could have been 40 - and started chatting up a storm. She wanted to confess that she stole someone's wallet for drug money earlier, and we let her know she will be forgiven. She seemed so relieved that we didn't avoid her because of that. She didn't ask for money or help. But she asked our names, and each of the three of us a different kind of question. I don't remember everything, but she was enthralled by the chat. It was raining, and I wondered if she would find a dry, warm place to sleep that night.

Soon, it was time for us to go, and she gave us each a hug. (No, she didn't take our wallets. :-)) For maybe an hour of her day, she had company and a big smile on her face.

Here's to the Elaines and others out there who only know concrete and sky as their home. May they receive life's necessities soon.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. My friend and I often walk the Promenade on evenings and get a bite

at one of the concessions. I would always get an extra container and put half of my food in it and he would say, "Why are you doing that?"
I would say "I never eat it all. Someone will...I want to give them a clean plate" He does it too now....that's how good habits are formed.

[LastTime2BeFree]

36. That is a good way to help

Tossing coins is not.

[Tyler Durden]

40. You need to grow a little charity.

It's a useful emotion to have.

You'll know it when you start to feel selfless about giving.

You cannot know the repercussions of your actions: the people that helped ME without making your judgements made my three children, my house, and my current life possible without even knowing it.

Ripples in the pond, my friend.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. I disagree. Coins can buy a cheap hotel room for a night so a person

can shower and sleep in a bed after they have gotten enough together. Try looking at them as a human being and not a concept.

[Sting]

43. Amen to that.

Some of us need to learn compassion...no need to point fingers...

[Tyler Durden]

46. Damned right.

I once saw a dead homeless person being picked up off the street in a Washington, DC Winter: they had frozen to death overnight.

Felt like someone walking over my grave.

I see a homeless person with a hand out, I make with George.

[LastTime2BeFree]

56. Dead people

I have dressed and tagged more than my share of dead bodies. Perhaps that is the nature and indifference of my attitude that the needy need help and not handouts.

I'll clean gutters before I ask for a handout and I'm proud of it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. I can appreciate your drive and amibition

I hope it is always enough. I've seen people who had it beaten or injured out of them.

I'll fight to survive as well. Should fate ever interrupt my survival mechanism, I pray that the good grace of some human being gets me through.

[LastTime2BeFree]

61. I'll help you if you ever need it

Not with cash from my hand to yours but through the party that provides the care you need. We all deserve a helping hand.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. OK I can tell you aren't shifting on that note

As long as you ARE doing something though that's what counts...giving to a homeless shelter or a food mission or SOME group that actually DOES provide what they say they provide is also an alternative.

On the cash thing..we just disagree..that's all.

[Tyler Durden]

70. You remind me of a quote from "A Christmas Carol":

`At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, `it is more than usually desirable
that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many
thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'

`Are there no prisons?' asked Scrooge.

`Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

`And the Union workhouses?' demanded Scrooge. `Are they still in operation?'

`They are. Still,' returned the gentleman, `I wish I could say they were not.'

`The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?' said Scrooge.

`Both very busy, sir.'

`Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said
Scrooge. `I'm very glad to hear it.'

`Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman,
`a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink. and means of warmth. We choose this
time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

`Nothing!' Scrooge replied.

`You wish to be anonymous?'

`I wish to be left alone,' said Scrooge. `Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry
myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned --
they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'

`Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'

`If they would rather die,' said Scrooge, `they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse
me -- I don't know that.'

[Tyler Durden]

69. I was a medic in a Navy Hospital ICU.

The bottom of the Medical Funnel. I bagged up so many men, women and children they eventually only sent me for the ones who weren't going to make it, or who were already dead. One "friend" in the NICU called me "The Angel of Death."

It just made me infinitely more sensitive to the needs of the living. I feel badly for how it has affected you.

[Cheswick2.0]

85. you were a medic in a Navy hospital ICU?

I am sure lastime2Bfree was also.

[LastTime2BeFree]

90. Nope. EMT

A stressful and underpaid job.

[camero]

44. Or an issue

that helps too. Or your coins could get them a cup of coffee. It gets chilly in Seattle sometimes too.

[JitterbugPerfume]

50. there but for the grace of God

go I Never become so full of baloney that you think it can not happen to you , or to someone you love . Show a little compassion You may need it to be returned to you some day

[bonemachine]

39. I prefer to give food

But if I don't have any, I'll usually dig for some change... My family was transient for the first 8 years of my life, though I never saw my parents begging for change. Of course, they were young and relatively healthy, so they were perfectly willing and able to work.

[Corgigal]

45. Walking out of the local CVS

drugstore was a man in a wheelchair who had a bag around the back of his chair. I have seen him in the area before and he asked me if I could spare a cigarette. I asked him what does he smoke and he told me, so I turned around and bought him a pack.

Now, should I be worried about his risk of cancer? I thought the hell with that, if the man gets any pleasure from this planet then let him get it anyway he can.

I could have been conned but I rather be conned by a man in a wheelchair then a major corporation anyday.

[Tyler Durden]

48. Bless you too.

Once in a while a smoke kept me going.

Do you have corgis? PM please.

[corarose]

49. I don't have much money but I buy Streetwise and hand it back to them

I look at it and then I say that I allready have that issue and can you please sell this paper to someone else.

[Myra]

53. This is a really kewl post...

Thanks.

And in semi-response to subsequent posts,
IMO after they have the money it's theirs
and it's none of our business what they spend
it on.

One more thing, I know it's hard, but if we
can say something to them along with the donation,
I think it really helps. I know it's well intentioned,
but the eyes downcast wordless donation could be
improved for both parties if it's accompanied
by a simple verbal expression of kindness and eye
contact. "Take care." Whatever.
(Subtext, hello fellow humanoid.)

[WindRavenX]

57. I never carry cash on me

So giving money to those I see is sometimes not possible. However, when I have change, I give. And if I go into CVS and I notice someone outside needing a pick-me-upper, I usually buy something, like a jar of peanut butter and and a loaf of bread. That's 3 bucks, not a lot. Give til it hurts.
I'm new to the Boston area, and I wonder how so many manage to survive the cold. I wonder even more how so many people can pass people up, knowing just how cold it gets here.
I feel bad when I can't give...

[Spirochete]

58. There's a homeless guy

with a "work for food" sign in the corner by the Target store. He's a regular fixture in the warmer weather months. If I'm down that area, I often get an extra cheeseburger at the Jack-in-the-Box near there, and toss it to him out the car window. Last time i did it, someone in a car behind me got all mad because I slowed down, and started honking his horn and yelling. I yelled "go around me, shithead!" and he did, glaring at me all the way. It would have only delayed him by a few seconds.

[Ellen Forradalom]

60. I vacillate on this issue

Sometimes I see the logic of 'don't feed addictions' but usually I don't see the point of judging people who are spare-changing. I prefer to buy them some food or a coffee, and in one case I brought some spare t-shirts for a neighborhood regular, but I don't always have the time.

One time I found a twenty dollar bill on the ground. I went to the Starbucks, got a coffee and change in fives, and gave a five to each of the three regular panhandlers on the corner by my office. That was fun. Really made my day.

[kayleybeth]

65. I always give when I have it to give

I don't worry about getting scammed. Who cares? If somebody scams me, that is more their problem than mine. I just don't have it in me to stop and question the motives of someone who is so down and out in life that they need to beg for food or money. Whatever. I give them the benefit of the doubt. I always give them something... whether it's spare change, or a few bucks, or a sandwich or a cigarette, I give what I can. And I hope and pray that if I ever have the misfortune to be in their position, someone will extend that same benefit of the doubt to me.

[AlienGirl]

66. Pssst...

I was driving with Ulex one day, and we were stopped at a light. There was a person with a sign there, and I immediately reached for my money. To my delight, Ulex did the same thing--we bumped elbows.

Considering how she's married to that social-darwinist Jag (RepubRoomie), I dunno if she wants anyone to know about this. But she's secretly a very generous, good person.

Tucker

[Loonman]

67. Holding back money because of booze /drugs is crap

Holding back money because a homeless person might buy booze or drugs is candy-ass bullshit.

Who the fuck are we to judge?

The problem I have with some liberals is their "superior moral" attitude.

Give me a fucking break!!!! Where the fuck do you get off?


What if booze and drugs are the only happines that person has left? What if it is the only way someone can cope when they're in the gutter?

Stop thinking you're Jesus fucking Christ and cough up, skinflint!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's all I have to say about that.

[SiobhanClancy]

76. You're right...

I hate that attitude..."Oh,but they might buy drugs or booze..don't you know you're only ENABLING them?". The arrogance and self-righteousness amazes me.

[CBHagman]

92. No, it's legitimate ask if you are enabling someone.

Any of us who have lived with addicts know that there are certain actions done in the name of being helpful that are just prolonging the addiction of the person. The reason it's so easy to mistake enabling for compassion is that it's easy to feel good about doing something someone wants you to do or to justify it by saying you're just being helpful.

I agonize about the whole issue of giving money to whoever's asking, but the truth is that there are bona fide con artists in my area. I get the same people giving me the same scenario time and time again: "Can you help me? My wife and daughter and I are stranded trying to get to ____." I once gave a Metro ticket to a guy with that story, and the very next week he approached me with the same emergency scenario. There are some people who run scams with their children, too.

We had a woman in our area who would knock on the doors of people in our community, claiming to be pregnant and physically abused. It turned out that she was neither -- she was "pregnant" for a number of years -- and she took in a lot of people.

My general approach has been to give to the food bank or another nonprofit, or maybe give some items (for example, food or clothing) to individuals.

And I think it's pretty judgmental for the above posters to start attacking people who don't opt to give in a particular way. Many of us are approached several times literally every day for money, whether on the streets, direct mail, or through other means, and often for very worthwhile efforts. You have to make some judgment calls about where you will give and how much. It's not about being a self-righteous Scrooge, it's about being an adult.

Jesus also told us to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. And the "judge not, lest ye be judged" bit goes both ways.

[LastTime2BeFree]

93. What if booze and drugs are the only happines that person has left?

Then they can get an effing partime job to feed the habit. I'll help feed, cloth and bath the homeless but the mindfuck they may seek is on their dime. Thank you very much.

[KG]

68. well said, TD

in my darkest days, I always had family that helped me get thru, many others do not.

nice to see there are a few enlightened people on this planet, some of them can even be found on DU.

[ACK]

71. Always give with one exception

The punk kids with piercings and tats that come into Little Five Points from the burbs and then panhandle for latte money.

That stuff is just wrong.

Otherwise, I give.

Especially for the street musicians. There was this old blues guy in VA Highlands in Atlanta and a street drummer in DC that bangs on cans and stuff. Really incredible sounds.

I will never forget my son and I walking down past the clubs in the Highlands and this old blues guy is wailing out on the guitar singing. My son stops dead in his tracks and starts dancing. He looks up at me with the biggest smile and I look at the bluesman and he says, "He knows son that be what the blues are for."

Then the guy just keeps on jamming.

[dfong63]

72. interesting argument - does it also apply to door-to-door solicitors?

some of those people seem pretty desperate, too. am i obligated to patronize them, too?

no flames, please. this is a sincere and serious question.

where do you draw the line, or do you?

[Tyler Durden]

73. The thing is, once you draw lines...

...You invite lines to be drawn, on you.

In a great big "X marks the spot."

After 1974, I take no chances with Karma.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

74. Depends on what they solicit

Same with telemarketers..I am not rude to them and explain that I know they are trying to make a living no matter what I do on the purchase end.

[Tyler Durden]

78. I think they mean INDIVIDUALS.

Meaning people coming to your door looking for a hand.

I never use the word "HANDOUT." If one pisses on another from a great height using words, one risks finding out the hard way that we all live in a urinal from time to time.

[Blue_Chill]

75. Amen buddy

well said.

[truthspeaker]

77. I prefer giving through established aid organizations

That way the homeless people who don't have time to panhandle (because they're working and raising kids, with no home) also get help.

And there's no guarantee a panhandler is homeless. Most of them are, but how can you tell the really needy from the scammers?

[Tyler Durden]

80. My moral compass gets less sensitive with time, thank the Gods.

I posted this quote from Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" a little farther up the page. Its GREAT to contribute to charities. I do it all the time, but there are cracks, and real people fall through them.

`At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, `it is more than usually desirable
that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many
thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'

`Are there no prisons?' asked Scrooge.

`Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

`And the Union workhouses?' demanded Scrooge. `Are they still in operation?'

`They are. Still,' returned the gentleman, `I wish I could say they were not.'

`The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?' said Scrooge.

`Both very busy, sir.'

`Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said
Scrooge. `I'm very glad to hear it.'

`Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman,
`a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink. and means of warmth. We choose this
time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

`Nothing!' Scrooge replied.

`You wish to be anonymous?'

`I wish to be left alone,' said Scrooge. `Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry
myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned --
they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'

`Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'

`If they would rather die,' said Scrooge, `they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse
me -- I don't know that.'


I do not post this to admonish, only to remind that shelters and soup kitchens are graveyards of the soul.

[veganwitch]

79. i gave a homeless mama 20bucks one night

i was coming home from the bar and it was all i had.

best 20 bucks ive ever spent.

[Character Assassin]

82. So if I choose not to kowtow to your belief, it's a big 'fuck you'?

For the record, you're exactly the sort of person who, if homeless, I'd not toss a coin to.

There is precious little time here, and to be so petty and judgemental invites the same to you.

Yeah. You really seem to have that 'non-judgemental' angle down, m'man.

[Tyler Durden]

96. May you never be homeless.

You'll starve or freeze.

EVERY person is your brother or sister. If you don't treat them that way, to expect the same is ridiculous.

[geniph]

83. I remember how shocked my stepsons were

the first time I darted out of the car at a stoplight in downtown Seattle and gave an obviously down & out teenage girl a handful of change. They were pretty young, and their (very suburban) mother had indoctrinated them with all the usual happy horseshit about: "they just don't want to work" "they'll just buy drugs" "it's better to donate to aid organizations" yada yada. To me, most of that is just an excuse to salve your own conscience for not helping when you're able. Not every homeless person can make it to an aid organization. Not every aid organization will help them with no strings attached. Sometimes shelters are deadly dangerous places, where they have to sleep wearing their shoes and coats lest they be stolen. Whether or not they buy drugs isn't up to me; I'm not their moral arbiter. Many will buy food. Isn't it better to help one who legitimately buys food and maybe contribute to part of a bottle of MD-20/20 for a few others than to deny that one food?

As to their "just not wanting to work" I cry horseshit on that. There are rules about working even at LaborWorks or the Millionair Club - you have to show up sober, first thing in the morning (the available jobs go quick), there's a very limited number of jobs (and most require robust physical health - my husband did LaborWorks for several months and it damn near killed him). If you're sleeping on the street, you don't have an alarm. If you don't make it by 7 a.m., you're not on the list. No one hires someone who looks and smells like they've been sleeping on the street. It costs money to shower, presuming there are any public facilities - sure, it's only a quarter or so at many public showers, but what if you don't have that quarter? How do you keep your clothes from stinking so bad that no establishment will even let you in the door? How do you fill out an application when you don't have an address, don't have a phone, don't have references, don't have skills?

I don't think people understand true despair. Maybe everyone should be homeless, ill, and without prospects once in their life, just to get some perspective.

[Tyler Durden]

98. It sure made me a believer.

5 months of never being warm, clean, or dry, and always being hungry tend to make you change your mind about homeless people.

With the likely coming collapse of the fake Bush recovery, one might make some friends among the homeless. Might keep a person alive.

[4323Lopez]

87. I heard a joke on tv that was so good about this subject

He said he 1)saves up all his loose change then 2)loads it up in his cargo pants pockets, 3)walks down the street with a car alarm and the first homeless person who asks him for change, he sets off the alarm and says, "You've won the Jackpot!!!" and tosses the homeless person all the coins. I love slot machines and couldn't stop laughing at this joke. I thought it was funny as hell.

[Iris]

88. Sorry. I pass about 25-30 homeless people a day

I'd be one of them if I gave them money everytime I saw them.

I do, however, ALWAYS look them in the eye and say "hello" or "good morning" or "how are you?"

[luckyluke]

89. Don't give a man a fish...

Handing a bum a dollar is merely a useless instant gratification (for both hander and handee). If you really care, contribute money or time to organizations that work with homeless people. Or do something else that is genuinely thoughtful and genuinely constructive.

As they say, don't give a man a fish, teach him to fish instead.

-ll

[Deja Q]

94. Except corporations are draining the lake of fish...

...how the hell can a person fish where there aren't any fish left to catch?

Sorry, but puny statements of "don't give a man a fish" are too simplistic, petty, black'n'white, incredibly narrow-minded, and just plain vulgar. It's the sort of shit that bush* and corporations spew.

Your point of supporting shelters is great though.

[rbnyc]

91. More important...

...look at them. Say hello. If you pass the same person all the time, learn the person's name, and greet them by name when you see them. If a homeless person isn't mentally ill already, the isolation will drive them insane, and if they are already mentally ill, the isolation will make it worse. Connie on the L train can get change from anyone. But I call her Connie and talk to her when I see. I know that it helps.

Of course, use your judgement, in some situations, this might not be a safe thing to do.

[ronzo]

99. Too many burnt turkeys...

Perhaps our concern for the plight of people who are homeless might be best directed towards helping them obtain food and/or shelter, especially during the holidays?
Perhaps the energies expended in this thread would be helpful in that regard? With this in mind ... and perhaps to offer some something else to be thankful for ... I'm locking this thread.

Happy Thanksgiving! Share it with others!
ronzoNOLA
DU moderator