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Deer: Cute little Bambis ... or giant, ravenous rats with antlers

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GregW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 09:37 PM
Original message
Poll question: Deer: Cute little Bambis ... or giant, ravenous rats with antlers
You all remember my beautiful garden, right?

Well, due to deer infestation it's now a chewed down pile o' stalks, including all my roses and strawberries. :mad:
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey
deer gotta eat too ya know.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I agree completely
don't like em in your garden? Hang old CDs around the area-scares 'em off. Simple.

We've not only "subdued" the earth; we've damn well destroyed it. Other creatures have a right to exist too, you know. I'm sick to death of the self absorbed, self important types who scream MINE, MINE, MINE! DOWN, DOWN, DOWN! whenever any living thing crosses their path that they didn't invite. Life is easier when you find beauty in the natural world, and find ways of living with it instead of declaring war against it.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Nice
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 12:51 AM by nu_duer
Very much agree with your post.

For too many,when it comes to defenseless animals, slaughter is not only acceptable, but fun. I've never understood that outlook, and hopefully never will.

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Just hit a raw nerve tonight
My kitty-my "fur kid"- is at the emergency vet tonight and it doesn't look good. I'm so tired of seeing animals suffer! My neighbors keep setting out poison for squirrels or possums or lord only knows what, and I end up running sick and dying birds, baby raccoons, and other small animals to wildlife rehab. So often they are so far gone the vets just put them down. It breaks my heart. :-(
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SiouxJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. So sorry Jen
Poor Pee Wee :-( .

I too am so sick of people bitching about being inconvenienced by animals. It must suck to be such a selfish person that you can't share the earth with other living creatures. Let's just kill everything and then we can have nice gardens. Whatever happened to live and let live? That was always one of my favorite liberal expressions. And if we hadn't killed off all their predators and encroached on their territory because we can't control our own population, we wouldn't be running into these situations in the first place. I think we need to remember that these animals are just trying to survive in a situation we (humans) forced upon them.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. my sympathies
darn hosta munching, daylily devouring beasts. One error in your poll, deer like cities. At least they like living in DC when I was there. Just ask the couple of people killed by deer on the beltway and those down near the zoo.... oh wait...never mind.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. What are the hunting laws in your state
maybe you could shoot one and eat it. Unless you don't like venison
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boilerbabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Venison and Guys that have no Clue
I eat them all...yum but the deer are more polite
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I have a clue .....
Venison tastes like rotten hamburger meat no matter HOW you prepare it ......
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. The real problem is we drove out all the wolves
Deer just need some natural enemies to keep them in line. If there were wolves around, your garden would still be fine. :-)

The only thing worse than deer are Canada geese. :-(
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Who will pay for the lost Cows and Sheep?





Yes, we killed off the wolf. It was a lost (In Pennsylvania the wolf was killed off by Rabies not hunting, but hunting was serious factor in the demise of the wolf even in Pennsylvania). The problem is that if any state brought back the wolf and the wolf killed any animal of value (i.e. any cow, sheep, dog owned by a farmer or anyone else) than the state MUST pay for the damage done by the introduced wolf (which is what the Feds are doing to the farmers and ranchers around Yellowstone and what Minnesota does when its wolves kill a farm animal).

Thus to say this was caused by the killing off of the wolf is one way to avoid addressing HOW to solve the problem. Increase Hunting is just part of any real solution (Both by licensed hunters AND professional hunters). Please note in Pennsylvania if you live on a farm of more than 50 acres AND it is your primary source of income and you see a deer eat your crop you can shoot that deer (Not any deer the deer you saw eat your crop). Now this was to address concerns of farmers NOT suburban home owners like you. There are also some very old Common Pleas Court cases saying such a restriction is against the state constitution and thus anyone can shot any deer they see destroying their property. Given that most of these cases are from pre-WWII days I would hesitate to rely on them, but they exists and the PA Game Commission knows of them (and avoids addressing them in their regulations). The commission seems to adopt a policy of non-enforcement in such cases to avoid any constitutional arguments. Remember the cases all reflect someone shooting a deer they saw eating their property BUT the shooter was NOT a farmer, or his farm was less than 50 acres OR it was NOT his main source of Income. The part of the statute limiting the shooting to the deer that actual did the damage was upheld in ALL of those cases. Thus there are ways to control the deer population PROVIDING you can show harm.

Another things that have to be addressed is if we re-introduced the wolf HOW do we pay for damages caused by the wolf? With Wolf a protected species will it naturally expand into your area (such nature expansion would relieve the state of the cost of re-introducing the wolf for the state is only liable for its actions NOT the natural movement of the wolves). Would the decrease in damage done by deer offset the increase in damages caused by wolves? AND WHO WILL PAY FOR THE DAMAGES. Deer expanded into suburbia naturally thus the state is NOT liable for Deer damage, but wolves would have to be introduced and if introduced the state would be liable for any and all damages. Thus the state may prefer YOU to assume the lost even if the damages done by wolves would be less (The state does not have to pay for deer damage, but would have to pay for Wolves damages. Thus it would be cheaper for the state just to leave the deer eat your property).

A third method of control is zoning laws that force people to have their homes more like mature forests (Which deer hate) than second growth forests (Which are what most yards imitate and deer just love). Thus one way to reduce deer numbers is to require NOTHING but tall trees (oaks, maples, cherry etc) and NOT bushes etc. Remember this has to be the WHOLE area not just one yard at a time. Deer love to hide in deep woods but prefer to eat in second growth forests (This is why there is more deer in the US today than in 1607. We cut down the mature forests of the 1600s and replaced them with suburban homes which resemble second growth forests with their low laying bushes, quick growing (but short) trees etc. This is ideal deer habitat. This is made worse by the fact we cut down most of the eastern forest just prior to 1900. At that time erosion was found to be an after effect of the clear cutting. To address this lost of soil, increased flooding do to the lack of trees, and lost of animal habitat, most Eastern States adopted policies buying up the than clean-cut wastelands and introduced decent forest management. Given that management the forests have tended to age since 1900 so that since about 1970 the forests are becoming "Mature" instead of "Second Growth". What this means is that deer have less to eat in the rural areas. Deer are NOT mature forest animals (turkeys are and have flourished the last 30 years do to the maturing of the forests of the East). The Deer have to go somewhere else where there is food. Some thing that resembles a second growth forest. The closest thing is modern suburbia and the deer are thriving in suburbia.

Do not worry hunters have also objected to the change in the forest. Pheasant (very popular in the early 1900 till about 1960s), bobwhites and other birds fell in numbers starting about 1950. The clean cuts of 1900 had matured to second growth. Clean cut land favored Pheasants and Bobwhites, second growth favored Deer, and mature forests favor Turkeys and Ruffled Grouse. Thus 30 years ago hunters where complaining of disappearance of Bobwhites and Pheasants, today they are complaining of the disappearance of Deer in rural America. This all drives from the maturing of the forest. Deer in Suburbia is increasing for suburbia is ideal Deer habitat. Thus one of the way to reduce Deer in Suburbia is to reduce Suburbia resemblance to Second Growth Forests.

Between the re-introduction of Wolves, increase hunting in suburbia AND a change in Suburbia from duplicating Second Growth forest to mature forests, you will see a reduction in damages done by Deer. You need to do all three, yet all three are opposed by most people in Suburbia. Thus you will have to learn to live with Deer, for no one wants to do what is needed to address the problem of suburban Deer.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's what's for lunch!
There was one in my front yard yesterday morning eating flowers! I hope he eats them all so I don't have to mow around them! And I hope he gets BIG AND FAT! Bambi&Biscuits MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bring me the venison, I'll cook it
WTF..bring me the giant ravenous rat..I'll cook that too!
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Jeff in Cincinnati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. I've got venison tenderloin
marinating in my fridge right now.
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MaryBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. Objection!
Like most polls, yours is biased. I would pick "all of the above."
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bambi must die
Not really but the critters are getting in my FENCED yard and stripping my roses, devistating my tomatoes and defoliating my apple tree.

My stupid cats are useless at scaring them away.

I'll try the CDs. Not that there's much left to save.

MzPip
:dem:
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boilerbabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Most of your critters would kill your kitties
Your cats are not stupid, they know better than to cross paths with racoons, oppossums, etc. for the reason that they are known cat killers. Give your kitties credit! They are smart not to cross paths with animals that they cannot survive against. Anyway. YOU go out and defend your pets against whatever threat is out there. (Racoons are worse than bears from what i've seen...) Don't leave garbage bags outside, especially if they have like food residuals in them...(almost got my damn legs gnawed off by racoons} And, keep your kitties inside if you can...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. locusts with hooves
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. They're knocking down my tomato plants!
I've worked so hard this year to have a garden and now those damn deer and tromping through it and knocking down my tomato plants.

:grr:
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
19. Rats! Big hydrangea, strawberry, hosta, azalea eating RATS!
my neighbor makes the problem much worse by feeding them cornflakes and all sorts of junk from his house which I am sure is not good for them anyways...
I think they eat my stuff as a way to settle their stomachs.


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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. I've read articles on deer-resistant gardens
There are plants that rank low on deers' list. Research them and start switching over.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe we can gas them like we did with the Canada geese!
Here in Jersey, the state has gotten a grant to round up Canada geese and gas them. I don't have another solution, but that seems cruel to me. It's their land too, you know?

I have a feeling deer and bears are next.

I'm sorry for your garden, because I know how much work it takes to maintain one, but I feel bad for the deer too.
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Bruce McAuley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
21. I hate 'em!
I have a 7 foot high fence around our garden, and we live IN town. It's been a real problem here in our rural community, with some people who don't garden feeding the deer, and those who do garden trying to shoo them off.
A high fence is the best solution, and a real sneaky solution is to let the nasty critters kill themselves by putting out a BIG pan of chicken or turkey food: the high protein chow causes them to founder and die within a day or so. THEM big rats won't come back, guaranteed! Not poisonous to other creatures either, unless you have other ruminants around like cows, horses or goats. The birds will love it, though.

Bruce
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. A write-in vote
For "Mobile Road Obstructions and Reaction-Time Testers"

From the mountains of WV to the DC suburbs, I've nearly met my maker on a number of occasions courtesy of Bambi and his family, including the ramp from I66-W to the Outer Loop of the Beltway. My brother has totaled two cars hitting deer. Not that I blame them for having their habitat encroached and all.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. Some deer repellents
tried by various gardeners I know:

Motion sensor lights

motion sensor radio attached to motion sensor lights

Really high fences

wire cages around all plants

experiments to find which plants the deer don't like, and only growing those

string 4 lb test fish line around the area on simple stakes

plant daffodils

Irish spring soap ?!? cut up and spread around the barrier area

You have two fences, one inside the other, six feet apart. On either
side of the main gate, you put two six-foot gates perpendicular to the main gate.

Spreading human hair around your plantings. Also, there is a fatty-acid soap called, "Hinder" that is fairly effective as a deer repellant, especially if you start spraying it around before they've started feeding in the spring.

Dogs in the garden at night.

Just a sampling. It is amazing what people are willing to try. Good luck!
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. A few applications of this will help
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
26. You forget "Hood ornament"
My father hit a deer one night on the way back home from Jacksonport, Wisconsin. Within 10 seconds three cars had pulled over and asked if we wanted the carcass. The winners dragged the carcass to the side of the road and were halfway through dressing it by the time the cops showed up. Part of the paperwork was to officially renounce our right to the ex-deer.

Waste not, want not is still practiced in some parts of the country.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Mmm, venison. I won't shoot bambi, but I'll eat him.
The more deer Ted Nugent kills every year, the less that will be in a position to run in front of my car on 1-94.
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