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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:38 PM
Original message
Who watched Horatio?
And can't wait for tonight's conclusion?
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. ME ME ME!!! Yes, he's proposed....but....
fun to see one of the sisters in Pride and Prejudice as his squeeze!!
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Don't mean to sound snobbish, but
looks to be a big difference in social status here.
Doesn't feel right.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. She was also Saffy in "Absolutely fabulous".
Poor girl. What a cold fish proposal.
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Sagan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. yes, but that's very in tune with the literary Hornblower

In fact, his relationship with Maria was always odd.

Read the books, they're great.

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phaseolus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not to mention Ginger in "Chicken Run"...!
The best part was Horatio's "My God what the hell have I done" facial expression...
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. FWIW, the Hornblower novels were based on a real person -- Thomas Cochrane
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 05:49 PM by Vitruvius
as are the Aubrey/Maturin novels and the novels by Captain Marryat that originated the genre (Marryat was a midshipman under Cochrane). In turn, Gene Roddenberry based the Star Trek series on the Hornblower novels.

Cochrane was an incredible captain, scientist and radical politician. His exploits as a captain were so incredible that nobody would believe them in a work of fiction. He first came to notice when, as captain of a 14-gun brig, he and his 54 men took the Spanish 32-gun frigate Gamo, 319 men; some of his subsequent exploits were even more astounding.

In addition, he achieved his feats with very few casualties, unlike most captains of his era; he used surprise, speed, and intel in an utterly modern way. His tactics and methods are studied in naval war colleges to this day.

He also agitated for decent treatment of RN seamen, both thru RN channels, and as a MP; this had him in continuous hot water with the British naval establishment of his day. And he was a thoroughly decent individual; he never lied, never had a man flogged, never took advantage of his position, never philandered, and always stood up for the underdog.

He also had considerable scientific, engineering, and weapons design talents; he was an early pioneer of screw propulsion for steamships, was an inventor of gas-lighting (along with his father), invented both the smoke-screen and gas warfare, and his amazingly modern plans for an explosion vessel to devastate a harbor, if implemented, would have been a nineteenth century equivalent of a nuclear device.

He was also a radical politician, with such radical notions for his time as 'one person, one vote', plus the still-novel notions that government funds should be used for public purposes rather than graft and subsidies for the rich, that rich people should pay taxes, and -- most importantly -- that poor people should get a fair shake.

Accordingly, the powers-that-were subjected him to a political prosecution and sent him to prison. After his release, he got the chief witness against him convicted of perjury; then fought in the wars-of-independence of Chile, Peru, Brazil, and Greece; the few ships under his command destroyed or neutralized the Spanish and Portuguese fleets in the new world.

Cochrane had the good fortune to outlive the years of repression that followed the Napoleonic Wars, and saw some but not all of his novel tactics & methods & politics achieve acceptance. In his old age (he lived until 1860), the old hero saw his honors restored and was a favorite of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. He is buried in Westminster Abbey.

------- ------ ----

For more information, see:

- Christopher Lloyd -- Lord Cochrane: Seaman, Radical, Liberator

- Robert Harvey -- Cochrane: The Life and Exploits of a Fighting Captain

- Thomas Cochrane -- The Autobiography of a Seaman
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You left out the part about Cochrane
getting a wild hair up his ass to make Napoleon the emperor of South America...up until he discovered he'd died on St. Helena. Cochrane was an INTERESTING character!
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Cochrane's wife, Katherine (nee Barnes), was also interesting -- brainy,
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 08:42 PM by Vitruvius
fearless, independent-minded. She was from poverty, and was almost certainly born out of wedlock -- Cochrane, as the heir to an ancient Scottish earldom, shocked society and his family when he eloped with her. As always, Cochrane knew when to defy convention; as always, he carried it off with style.

As you know, C.S. Forester also had his fictional Hornblower marry a poor girl, Maria Mason; I wish he'd made her as interesting as Lady Cochrane.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. there was a real Hornblower; his name was HORATIO HORNBLOWER
I don't know where you get your information, but Forester was novelizing the life of the REAL Horatio Hornblower, who wound up being the highest ranking officer in the Queen's Navy. Are ya daft, man?

http://www.geocities.com/Oceansfarandwide/RHH.html
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. LOL! Good find! That "family tree" is from C. Northcote Parkinson's
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 10:42 PM by Vitruvius
"The Life and Times of Horatio Hornblower: A Fictional Biography"; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0760709440/qid=1070507333/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-3017354-0819231?v=glance&s=books).

The book is excellent -- if you're a Hornblower fan, it's well worth getting. I own it (along with two "biographies" of Sherlock Holmes). It's out of print, but available used, e.g. thru Amazon.com or abebooks.com; you can pick up a good copy for less than $5.00

Have fun,

Vitruvius

P.S: CN Parkinson is best known for Parkinson's Law ("Work expands to fill the time available"); he wrote the Hornblower "bio" as a labor-of-love in his retirement. It's an excellent read -- and he clearly had a good time writing it.

And if you read it, you will find out why Captain Sawyer fell down the hatchway...
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yikes! Apparently, I'M daft...
I read the Parkinson book after having read most of the others back when I was in high school and swallowed it whole. Suckerrrrr...

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Johnyawl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Cochrane!
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 12:27 PM by Johnyawl
I love that man, there are times I felt like I was the only person who knew who Cochrane was. I'm impressed by your knowledge of him! But then you have more books about him than I do. I've only read Donald Thomas's book "Cochrane: Britains Sea Wolf". I can see I'm going to have to expand my library.

His father was quite the scientist also. He invented a tar based coating for ships bottoms to protect wooden ships from the ravages of worms, and rot. Unfortunately the naval board wouldn't approve it, because the board was dominated by ship yard owners who were getting rich replacing and repairing the Navys rotten ships. Later, just as the Napoleonic wars were starting the patent expired, and the Navy approved the use of his product. All the ships in the British Navy, during the period when it was the largest ever, were coated. Had the patent still been in force, the Cochranes might well have been the wealiest family in Scotland by the end of the war.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. I saw the series a couple of years ago when A&E first put it on.
Fantastic miniseries!
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Dammit, I missed it!
We have the first 4 on DVD. The casting is wonderful. They're actually doing justice to Forester.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Mr. Forrester, Ma'am
Has been one of my favorite authors since childhood. The Hornblower series are only part of his excellent work.

Highly recommended are "The Gun", examining the guerrilleros of Spain, which is worth more than many histories in developing an understanding of guerrilla movements, and "The General", an exquisite rendering of English military leadership in the Great War.
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Johnyawl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. My goodness, I'd forgotten "The Gun" was Forester

I read that 35 years ago, while I was in the Marines. Thank you for reminding me of that great book, I'll have to seek out a copy and reread it.

Forester also wrote:

"The Age of Fighting Sail", a wonderful book analysing the British-American naval war of 1812-1814.

"The African Queen", which was made into a movie of the same title.

"Rifleman Dodd", which is on the Marine Corps Commandands recommended professional reading list. I would be surprised to find that wasn't the inspiration for Bernard Cornwells "Sharpes Rifles" series.
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Rifleman Dodd is simply EXCELLENT.
n/t
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