Let's talk about drugs...

[RainDog]

legal ones for depression, etc. that is.

I started this separately because of liberal historian's zoloft comment.

my doc put me on this and I hate it. I have non-stop carb cravings and I've gained 20 lbs and I don't feel undepressed so much as detached from certain emotional reactions, if that makes sense.

I don't even know if it's affected my libido since I wouldn't want to take off my clothes after gaining so much weight!

so who here as experience with anti-ds and which ones have had what side effects for you?

my doc has also talked about trying something else, which is actually for bipolar, cause he wonders if I'm not hypo (just below the level of bipolar 1). I think it's called..lamical or something, but he told me I might get a deadly rash, which was a real "uh, I dunno" moment..

anyway, I realize everyone's reaction to things is different.

anyone want to share?

[HERVEPA]

1. Serzone has worked well for me,

but after more than a year and a half on it doesn't seem to be working too well now.

[amandae]

2. I'm also on Zoloft and have similar side effects ...

I've been on it for more than two years ... I also have the carb cravings .. didn't know it could be from Zoloft. Interesting to think about though. I haven't gained any weight, but I can't lose the extra weight from my last pregnancy, which didn't happen after the first two kids. Actually it hasn't affected my sex drive - it only did that when I was on it while pregnant. And I completely understand the emotionally detached reaction you have. I feel that also.

BTW, I take Zoloft for an anxiety disorder/panic attacks. About 90 percent of my family suffers from it. I've never tried any other anti-depressants ... for the most part, dispite the side effects (which I've grown used to) it does keep the panic attacks at bay and my level of anxiety at a minimum.

Too bad we can't just change society instead of having to medicate so many people (like me) to deal with how screwed up society is.

[RandomKoolzip]

4. True...

I was on ZOloft for a few months, then I switched to Paxil...then I gained like 40 pounds on Paxil. I weaned myself off of Paxil using Lexapro, and I found that I wasn't as hungry on Lexapro, but still, I wish I didn't have to take these fucking meds.

I've suffered from depression most of my teeage years, and severe panic attacks most of adulthood. The meds do indeed curb the panic attcks and gereralized anxiety. But they also make me feel like shit sometimes, like a zombie...a teeth-grinding, yawning zombie.

People ask me why I'm on medication and I tell them it's not because I'm depressed, it's because LIFE SUCKS. This world we live in is corrupted like a piece of software that went through a bad transfer...there is endless fear, hatred, and backbreaking toil, and just the faintest of glimmers to keep us going. Life is terrible these days, and the meds, in combination with working towards getting Bush out of office and a FUCKING HUMAN BEING IN office, would make everybody's days a little easier.

[prole_for_peace]

3. i take effexor, and have for about years.

the only side effect i have noticed is a slight lessening of libido. i know some people who actually lost weight on it but not me of course.

[info being]

5. Take St. John's Wort

Effective with minimal or no side effects. Don't believe that stuff about not drinking or eating cheese with St. John's Wort.

Why trust the drug companies when nature already made what you need?

[RainDog]

8. that doesn't do it for me.

st john's wort isn't really for major depression, you know?

[info being]

15. Yes, that's what the institutions say

.

[Loonman]

9. Not a cure all

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/stjohnswort.cfm

[info being]

14. Hey, if you believe institutions, you wouldn't look to herbs

There's a lot of money to be made peddling perscription drugs. The stuff works, I know first hand.

[RainDog]

17. jeeez

somethings work for some people, and some don't.

I said zoloft didn't work for me.

I said st john's wort didn't work for me.

I really detest the attitude that anyone who does not have a miracle after taking the herbal that's supposed to be for this or that is somehow deluded.

that's bullshit and it's also very dangerous for people who need something which works for them, whoever makes it.

[info being]

18. Its also dangerous to rely on drug companies

Should really be a last resort...not a way of coping. They profit by making you sicker and then treating you with still more perscriptions. Why chemically imitate what has been used for 1,000's of years?

[Interrobang]

40. Because it's allopathic, you nitwit...

They used a lot of things for thousands of years that didn't work, made you sicker in the long term, or were just plain poisonous, too. (Heck, they used to treat syphillis with drafts of mercury -- think that's a good idea too?) Until there've been some real studies on St. John's Wort and the like, I'll stick with regular drugs. They didn't have the Scientific Method thousands of years ago -- it's a recent invention. Thanks, I'll trust something that's actually been scientifically tested and shown to work under repeatable, falsifiable conditions -- even *if* that means enriching a drug company (although I live in Canada, so the situation's different for me).

Personally, living in Canada where allopathic medicine is paid for by tax dollars, and drugs are cheap due to governmental bulk discounts, my opinion of anyone who uses so-called "alternative remedies" (which are not covered under any of the health plans, and so therefore come out of one's personal pocketbook) is "Fools and their money are soon parted."

[info being]

20. I also wanted to say that...

I find it interesting that you start a thread and then get defensive with feedback. Next time, why don't you just say what conclusion you'd like for us to help you come to instead of opening it up to honest opinion / discussion.

[RainDog]

22. LOL

I don't think I'm being defensive, but if it makes you happy to think so, fine.

I was trying to ask you to maybe consider that you are being dogmatic.

I'm glad st johns wort works for you.

[info being]

24. I don't think dogmatic is the right word

I do have a healthy distrust for the healthcare establishment in this country. My experience is that people who trust the system are the least healthy among us. Case in point: 30 years of bashing the low-carb diet while saying nothing about sugar and refined flour.

If you want to get out of the spiral, you have to see the loops...specifically loops that systematically benefit corporations at the expense of your own well-being.

You want corrupt corporations out of our government? Start by getting them out of your body and mind.

OK, so call me dogmatic.

[greyl]

42. Orrin Hatch can tell you about the herb money.

You think herbal producers are non-profit charities?

It's irresponsible to recommend St. Johns Wort without mentioning the known dangers of it, don't ya think?

http://psychology.about.com/library/clinical/bldepessf4.htm

http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/aboutcc/media_resources/news_features/wortfinal.html

[Raine]

46. SJW worked

GREAT for me in getting almost entirely rid of my panic attacks within two weeks of taking it. :thumbsup:

[DoNotRefill]

6. years ago I tried them all....

zoloft, prozac, and a whole bunch of others. Didn't have a lot of choice about it. They made me irritable and jumpy. I finally just told my parents that I wasn't depressed, just had a generally pessimistic (but very realistic) world outlook. My mom still thinks I'm depressed.

[info being]

I took St. John's Wort for more than 1 year

It worked well...I was always in a decent, consistent mood, etc. But I don't think my thinking was sharp enough. Sometimes we need that feeling of an empty pit of rage / desire in our stomachs to motivate innovative thinking and make drastic changes.

So I stopped a few months ago and have been generally happy with the decision. I agree that it isn't about "depression" but; rather, a way of coping with a shitty world. I don't need the stuff when I'm on vacation!

[greyl]

43. Hey, do me a favor.

Go to a library or bookstore and find "The Story of B" by Daniel Quinn. At the back of the book is a short few page piece called "My God, it isn't me!"

Read it. Show it to your mom. :)

[mike_c]

7. you often have to try more than one SSRI before finding the one...

...that works best for you. Neither Zoloft, Effexor, or Paxil worked well for me (all had adverse side effects), but Lexapro has worked very well, with minimal side effects-- mostly an anorgasmic response for about a month or so, which then went away. Maybe some diminished libido, but hell, I'm at the age where it begins declining anyway and my SO's post-menopausal, so nobody's really to worried about it. That's not to say that Lexapro would be right for you, of course, but it does illustrate that matching patients with the best SSRI for their physiology often takes a bit of experimentation. If I were you, I'd complain to your doc that Zoloft isn't working out and that you'd like to consider another formulation.

[rbnyc]

10. Been on lots of them...hated them all...Cognitive Therapy works.

I've talked about this many times, and I always want to make sure people understand that if these drugs work for you, I think that's great. But I hate them, and I hate the fact that they are a first option for most doctors. You can get help without drugs. Look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

[RainDog]

21. Yes, cognitive therapy is great.

but for some people, in order to process those things, they need to feel well enough to "hear" and learn.

David Burns has a good book with a dumb name...called Feeling Good. he's one of the guys who started the whole cog. therapy thing.

actually, existential therapy is also good...Van Gogh's Blues talks about people having to create meaning over and over.

I generally detest "self help" but sometimes you need to learn about what may be getting in your way of seeing the meaning in life.

[Blade]

11. I'm taking Zoloft.

I have some horrible side affects:

*eating too much (not gaining weight, though)
*still depressed
*often have the "I don't care" attitude
*prolonged erection (first month I was on it)
*sleeping more than I should (I nap every day)

I hate these side affects. I wish there was a pill that wouldn't have these effects on me. I tried Paxil too, but it made all the side affects worse than Zoloft does.

I just wish there were something I could take without these god-awful side affects.

[RainDog]

26. OMG

I know it was probably not a good thing for you, but that one side effect... was that really a bad thing? :)

I'm just joking, I promise.

I actually know what you're talking about and it must be difficult to deal with when the little engine that could won't stop.

[Blade]

41. Well...

no, the prolonged erection was not a good thing. No matter how much I tried to "settle it down," it wouldn't. 45 minutes....and nothing. That side effect sucks a lot.

Thank God I don't have that problem anymore. :)

[GemMom]

12. You may be seasonally-affected

I know when the daylight hours start shortening, I trend towards depression - want to sleep more, etc. It's like my body is telling me to hibernate, and I would get irritable, very grumpy, etc. My doc prescribed light treatment - either get outside and walk for at least 15 min. a day, or get one of those full-spectrum lamps to shine on your face. I'm telling ya - I feel a million times better - more energy and desire to get out and do stuff (like work, take care of kids, etc.).

[RainDog]

23. this has been going on for six months

through the summer.

although yes, I do find that winter is more difficult than summer, sometimes, but not always..not that winter is better, but that summer is not.

I've read that SAD is considered a part of bipolar spectrum, which makes lots of sense to me.

I've also been dx'd with "atypical" depression, whatever that is...

[blueraven95]

33. just a cautionary note on sun lamps

Our family doctor has warned us not to use the sun lamp for more than 30 minutes a day. Apparently, a lot of people experience negative side effects if they sit in front of it for longer. We got that warning a couple of years ago, so I don't remember what the side effects were, but I remember thinking that they were really bad.

[MissMillie]

13. a "deadly" rash

I'd avoid that.

[RainDog]

16. I wonder about my reactions..

I was on prozac before, but I was up to the maximum dosage and...

actually, meds couldn't help that I was married to a person with severe bipolar disorder... but now that I'm divorced, I've still had problems with depression.

but my divorce coincided with Bush stealing the election, and I swear that has had a huge and horrible impact on my feelings of emotional well being...not to mention my whole couldn't find a job tho I'm no idiot situation (in great part b/c of the town I live in...highest educational level in the state, lowest pay scale...love those college towns).

but zoloft also doesn't really deal with my anxiety or whatever it is.

apparently (according to my dentist) I've been grinding my teeth, though I didn't know it (again, side effect of Bush prez??)

I've never heard of lexapro, though.

I'm also on wellbutrin, which is supposed to make you stop smoking, but it hasn't for me.

also, back in the day when I puffed, I didn't get the munchies, but it had an AMAZING effect on my libido... :)

I also don't have much energy, but I do manage to do the basic minimum and sometimes more to deal with my life...

except that I've had a total I don't give attitude toward paying my bills on time, which I used to be anal about.

but I think that's because the capitalist system seemed to give me the big f-you since I got divorced, so I just sort of said..well, same to you.

[blueraven95]

34. Lexapro is...

Its basically a stronger version of celexa, from what I understand.

I really like it because I don't have that drugged up feeling that I get off of so many other drugs...I can feel happy or sad or whatever without feeling totally hopeless.

[XNASA]

19. I started taking Elavil about a year ago.........

Smallest dose available, just before bedtime. Mostly because I had trouble sleeping (too much on my mind) and would wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to get back to sleep.

It's a mild-antidepressant. I must say, that I'm a much happier person now.

But......

I'm less creative. I shrug off things that I would have tended to in the past. And, dare I say it, my libido is down somewhat.

Other than that, I feel great.

[silverlib]

25. From "The Pill Book"

which is one of my resources for medical transcription. The closest thing I can find close to "lamical" is Lamictal, which is an anticonvulsant that can cause "life-threatening rashes, nearly always within 2 to 8 weeks of use. Minor rashes may occur, but it is not possible to tell which ones may become life threatening....Twenty sudden and unexplained deaths occurred in people taking lamottrigine before it was approved for general use...Five people ..died from acute liver failure or multi-organ failure before the drug was approved for general use. It is not known if the drug played a role in these deaths." ..."the long term use of lamotrigine on the eyes are not known."

Please talk to your doctor and ask him about these side effects if this is the drug he is talking about. If there is no option, just be very careful. I am sure your doctor will monitor your blood work often. Lamotrigine is the generic form.

[RainDog]

29. I pretty much decided against it anyway

although I do know people who have taken it without a problem.

but I have a rash simply from taking anti-ds, so I was immediately put off.

[silverlib]

30. I certainly didn't mean not to take it, just

to be very careful. None of the other antidepressants being discussed have such strong warnings as this one. I have taken Prozac with none of the side effects, but it also did not work for me. I finally decided I am just high strung and passionate. These drugs definitley have a place for people who need them.

And I wish you much happiness. I hope you find the right drug. Celexa works great for a friend of mine and she wishes she had had it when she was eight years old.

[RainDog]

32. not a problem

but, yes, I am absolutely passionate about certain things and people, and I used to be very energetic and optimistic and much more confident...although the whole weight thing plays into that for me, as ridiculous at that may be.

I miss all those things.

The only people I feel a deep attachment to are my children.

...but I seem to have an unlimited passionate dislike of Bush...:)

[geniph]

27. I've been a chronic depressive since I was too young

to know there was a word for it, or that everyone didn't feel that way. I remember wanting to NOT BE when I was about six. At that age, I didn't know the word suicide existed, or that such a feeling wasn't, let's say, common to everyone.

I'm 44 now, and have been severely depressive and suicidal for most of that time. Obviously, I've learned coping strategies and what works and what doesn't for me, or I wouldn't be here. When I was younger, my coping strategy was kind of ugly; I was a cutter. It's not a good thing, but it also may have kept me alive several times.

When I was about 30, I decided the time was right to try antidepressants. I initially went on the tricyclics (at that time, Pamelor). They worked like a charm for about five years, with the usual antihistaminic side effects (dry mouth, mild constipation, slight weight gain, somnolence). They also had the beneficial side effect of controlling much of the pain from fibromyalgia.

Eventually, the tricyclics became ineffective. Because I wasn't expecting this, and wasn't prepared for it, I almost went off the deep edge before I got my medication changed. I went on Zoloft, which proved to be pretty much ineffective for me. I switched to Serzone (luckily BEFORE I did anything irrevocable), and the Serzone saved my life. I was on it for several years before it, too, crapped out (most SSRIs do, eventually). I found Paxil too sedating, Prozac too anxiety-inducing, and finally was switched to Wellbutrin, again, just in time.

The Wellbutrin was something of a miracle for me, for several years, and I credit it with getting me stable enough to finally start to see the light of day again. (I did find out the hard way why you're not supposed to drink on Wellbutrin - I very nearly ended up in the emergency room with seizures.) On Wellbutrin, I was able finally to start "unlearning" my depressive responses, which is one of the basic underpinnings of cognitive therapy. I was finally able to taper off it after being on it for about three years. I had to taper off it, as it was causing me to grind my teeth horribly at night, which made me crack two fillings and gave me dreadful headaches. I was, at that point, near enough to what I consider remission to be able to gradually switch over to St. John's Wort. I've been stable on that alone for about five years now, with occasional relapses into full-blown depression, none of which have lasted more than a couple of days.

The non-pharmaceutical therapies that help (they don't cure anything, but they surely don't hurt, and they can help a lot) include getting outside for at least half an hour every day, preferably walking. I don't have to get sunlight, but I HAVE to get daylight, or I get much worse (I never see daylight at work). If I get some mild exercise, I generally feel much better. I avoid people and situations (angry people, my family) which I know trigger depressive responses in me. It helps greatly that my work and home situations are much improved. And cognitive therapy, once I was stable enough not to give up on the idea, did help; many suicidal impulses are learned responses, and can be unlearned. You can train yourself to reject overtly suicidal ideations. It sounds simplistic, but it has kept me alive.

There IS hope.

As to the weight gain - well, I'd rather be a bit plump than in the depths of the pit. Try to eat as healthily as you can, and try to walk for half an hour a day, preferably outside, but a treadmill works too. It really can help a lot.

[jukes]

28. ssri's

Raindog,

Seems that all the ssri's share similar side effects, some more pronounced in some individuals than others. I tried prozac some time ago, didn't like it.

You might try a seratonin precurser, rather than an uptake inhibitor. There's been some research that indicates that L tryptophan supplemental to diet can have some affect on depression, insomnia, etc. Also seems to curb carbohydrate cravings & help weight loss.

FDA won't allow tryptophan suuplements to be sold, for convoluted (& really booring) reasons that have nothing to do, o/c, with their stated purpose.

It can be ordered O/L, but be prepared to be inundated by gurus of all sorts, since the supplement industry can proseletize like 1 of my neighbors here in almost-rural Georgia.

[RainDog]

31. are they still outlawing l-tryptophan?

I thought they realized what happened (which I know of as a Japanese manufacturer making a contaminated batch and because of the reactions to it, withdrawing all l-tryp.

the bad thing about depression, too, is that if you're depressed, so much of your energy goes into maintaining work and those sorts of things that it's easy (for me) to ignore exercise.

I used to exercise regularly, and yes, it is absolutely crucial for well being.

actually, spending too much time on DU has probably been bad for my health! :)

sad, but true... I should set up my computer by an exercise bike... :)

[nuxvomica]

44. I think you can buy 5-hydroxytryptophan

5-HTP, if I recall correctly, is an intermediate between l-tryptophan and seratonin and I think it's still widely available OTC. I would recommend homeopathy instead, however.

[theorist]

35. Has your doctor mentioned anything to you about Zoloft-related suicides?

n/t

[RainDog]

36. I know about that subject

but I do not have suicidal feelings and, in fact, I do not have the problems with depression that I was having before I took zoloft.

but I do not like the side effects.

[theorist]

38. I was on Accutane (acne medication) as a teenager...

and my doctor never mentioned anything about the potential for depression. That was a pretty dark time for me. It was either ignorance or negligence...

[RainDog]

37. on suicidal thoughts

even though I've dealt with major depression off and on for years (and been off and on various meds--including st johns wort--off and on for years) I never had suicidal thoughts.

I had "I am worthless, blah, blah thoughts, but suicide was never an option for me..don't know if I was scared of the idea, or if I was always able to keep enough of a perspective to tell myself that things didn't HAVE TO be the way they are and they could change.

UNTIL

I could not get a job that earned enough money for me to survive. I won't go into the whole thing again...I've mentioned it so many times...but that was like a big f-you from the world, to me.

I still don't have a job that pays enough to survive, but I feel like I can do something to change that now...including move, if I have to, even though my kids would hate it and I would have to go to court, most likely, and blah blah blah...

but I've also, in a rational (or so it seemed) way thought that if I could not survive economically, I would get my kids out of school and if I could not find any work to do that would pay me enough to survive, then I might as well give up on this world, since it had given up on me.

I think it's disgusting that such an issue could determine whether someone would think life is worth all the trouble or not, but I also could not stand to have to rely on the kindness of my family, and the resulting humiliation from other adults wielding that sort of power over my ability to survive.

...which is another reason I so oppose George Bush, who has never had to do an honest day's work, who has been propped up by rich friends of his father, while pretending he was earning his worth, and yet that bastard had the nerve to refuse unemployment medical premium payments for people who lost their jobs in 2001.

I've never been on unemployment, but I can imagine that it's already hard enough to deal with the loss of your self esteem that comes from doing a job you can be proud of, and losing that job often for no reason other than the greed of shareholders.

[Rowdyboy]

39. I was on zoloft....no side effect

Now I'm on lexapro...no side effects

I think its just individual body chemistry. Good luck!

[Lexingtonian]

45. Find a good endocrinologist

Depression is often not due to psychological states. It's a common side phenomenon of disorders where the body doesn't feel healed up and stays in a stressed state. In the normal range of physiological stress and typical duration periods there are endocrine and nervous system effects that prevent depression from developing. But if there are problems with hormones the physiological stuff gets somewhat deranged.

From all you tell it really sounds like you have some kind of endocrine condition. Hypothyroidism is incredibly common, remarkably difficult for professionals to diagnose and often (if not usually) missed, and usually associated with depression, weight gain, and so on.

As for herb stuff...some of it works. Often for a few people and not most. Unfortunately, the advocates of herb medicine are covert fanatics of the religious kind, utterly impervious and resistant to what few certainties the limited scientific testings done so far provide. Never forget that plants make their medicinally noticeable compounds because they function as poisons to fungi, insects, and/or grazing mammals.

[onebigbadwulf]

47. Here's the breakdown for anti-depressants

1. They are over-prescribed
2. Their effectiveness is slightly above placebo level
3. The side-effects alone are often not worth the results
4. They can often make things worse
5. They create dependence that may never go away


The best solution is to understand what's going on inside.

Exercise and diet change is often very very often enough to completely remove a person from depression.

If I were you I would taper off them in exchange for a real solution.

If you are bipolar, you should be on lithium.


Dysthmia should not be treated with drugs.