Asshole American Tourists - some true stories

[Rabrrrrrr]

So last night I had a most incredible meal at a very nice Kyoto restaurant.

See thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5134754&mesg_id=5134754

We arrived right when it opened, so we had the place to ourselves until halfway through our meal, then a Japanese couple got the table right next to us.

And then, around the time our entrees came, a group of youngish, college-age American tourists come in dressed in shorts, muscle shirts, and the other kind of clothing that you might expect college kids from America or Europe to wear as they tour a foreign country on the cheap. And that's fine - nice thing about Japan is that it isn't so much about the clothes, it's about the attitude.

And these Americans had attitude: they were seated a number of tables away from us, in a corner made with the wall against which we were sitting, and even though my partner and I were talking, we heard their entire conversation AND we know their entire order for dinner and how they would like it served.

We heard them just fine; we were commenting on much of their conversation, and also laughing at how they were ordering; we rarely heard the couple who were sitting RIGHT NEXT TO US.

And then, when we got up to go, we discovered that, in the other corner attached to our wall was a group of EIGHT Japanese. Neither one of us had any idea they were there. Never heard a peep from them, had absolutely no idea they were in the space.

And I've noticed this a lot going around Japan - Americans are loud. Especially Americans from more rural areas. (And my partner also tells me that the Japanese who come from rural areas tend also to speak more loudly, so this might be a universal thing). I can be in a room full of people, and if there are Americans there (and I'm talking the tourist ones, not the ones who are living in Japan and have adapted to the culture), they will be the ones I can hear. And not just because my ears identify the language, but in decibel level, they are louder.

And to top it all off, the conversation the college kids were having was totally uninteresting. I felt like going over to them and saying, "it's bad enough you are talking loud enough that the whole restaurant can hear you; it's bad enough that you had amazingly silly discussions about how many spring rolls and other things to order while the waiter stood there in desperate hope that you would make up your minds and stop wasting his time; it's bad enough that you all felt compelled to insult the chef by dictating that you wanted your ribeyes medium-rare; and it's bad enough that we heard every word, every giggle, every high-pitched college-girl "ow wow" excalamation; but for the sake of the love of God, if you're gonna do all that, could you at least - please, God, please - talk about something interesting?!?!"

So, that's my rant, and I'm sticking to it.

[Xipe Totec]

1. I know what you mean,

though I've never been to Japan. I've been to Japanese restaurants here in the US and suffered through the same obnoxious behavior.

Years since, my family still remembers the inane conversations coming from the other side of the partition. We still bring it up every time we go back to that particular restaurant.

[dysfunctional press]

2. how is it an insult to a chef to order a steak medium-rare...?

i've been a waiter and waitcaptain in several fine-dining restaurants, and that's the first time i've heard that...if they were ordering prime rib at temperature- it might be considered gauche...but it still wouldn't be construed as an insult to the chef...well, maybe by some chefs.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Because in Japan that's how a steak comes automatically.

Plus it's generally considered bad manners to ask the chef to cook anything differently than he/she is intending to. The whole fun of the dining game is that you order, and then see how the chef does it - whether it's a cheap yakitori place or a fine restaurant.

[dysfunctional press]

4. it's not bad manners to order a steak to temperature.

the whole fun of the dining game is to get a meal prepared to your liking. and when ordering a steak, the chef EXPECTS it to be ordered to temperarure- it's not bad manners in the least.

[WindRavenX]

5. not in Japan

Different culture.

[dysfunctional press]

7. they weren't japanese.

and it wouldn't matter to me anyway- when i'm ordering a meal, anywhwer in the world, and I'M paying for it- i expect it to be prepared to my liking. i would never hesitate to order a steak to temperature. it would be different if it were some type of entree dish with a specific recipe- but we're talking about a piece of meat cooked on a grill or in a broiler- there are a wide range of temperatures and a wide range of preferences. it just doesn't make sense not to order it cooked to your particular liking.

[WindRavenX]

8. No, but they were IN Japan

Doesn't matter where you're from, the culture is different and in Japan your request is somewhat frowned upon. It shows a lact of traveler's etiquette to overlook a cultural element.

[dysfunctional press]

10. they were tourists...

and no- nobody can or should be expected to know every little social custom about a country they travel to- and the people of the host country should be aware of that as well.
and since it is the custom in most of the civilized world to order a steak prepared to temperature- the chef/waiter have absolutely no reason to be offended.

[WindRavenX]

13. Your attitude is why Americans look like asses

They're tourists. Yes. But they're GUESTS in someone's HOME COUNTRY and you look like a dumbass if you expect them to act like your culture-- it is rude, it is arrogant, and it is in bad manners to expect someone else to conform to YOUR culture.
A responsible and well manner traveler looks cultural expectations up before visiting. And this Japanese norm isn't obscure--it's common.

/rant

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. Well said!

It's like asking an artist to change the color in a painting because, by God, you're paying for it!

In Japan, one does not order food so much as one orders an artistic experience and a culinary vision of the chef.

[tigereye]

59. maybe someone should have told them

"you aren't in America. You are in Japan. It's different here." ;)

While I agree that this kind of behavior creates the "ugly American" sterotype, I supppose you can't expect everyone to know all the customs.

I just read Ruth Reichl's new book about her tenure as the rest. critic at the NYT and she talked about this level of respect for the chef,when first reviewing a sushi restaurant, before those types of restaurants were well known.

[DS1]

42. and tell me why Mexicans shouldn't learn the language, sing

our anthem in English, and wave our flag?

same attitude, they're both bullshit

[WindRavenX]

52. They should

Where did I suggest otherwise? :shrug

[Xipe Totec]

72. Leave me out of it.

Not only do I speak English, but Russian as well.

The ones who are at a disadvantage are those who only speak one language, whether English, Spanish, or whatever.

And it is MY anthem, and MY flag too. I will sing it in whatever manner I please.

Since you're so gun-ho on English, you should put it to use by reading the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States again.

[DS1]

73. well, you misread the post

next time I'll add the :sarcasm: in Russian :-)

[Xipe Totec]

74. Ah! ok! I'm getting a bit touchy on the subject

starting to flinch every time I see "why don't the Mexicans..."

:hi:

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. Reminds me of the mainlanders who would come to Hawaii

and constantly bitch because they got rice with everything and couldn't get a baked potato. Where's the baked potato? Why all this rice? God, I just want a baked potato! Potato! Potato! Potato! Potato! Potato! Rice is weird! This food is weird! Why can't I get anything normal!!! AGH!!!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

25. Exactly.

Expecting tourists to know EVERY single custom is a bit much. They should certainly try to learn as many as they can, but I think they can be forgiven for a minor trespass.

[treestar]

29. So a Japanese tourist can do the reverse in America without

criticism.

[Derailer]

63. The difference being

knowing how to fucking drive is not a custom exactly

[DS1]

44. Right on

:thumbsup:

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. And perhaps this shows the difference in attitude as a tourist -

I believe that when one travels, one should adapt to the customs and sensibilities of the country/culture to which one is traveling. That is, at least for me, why I travel - so I can experience other cultures on their own terms.

Alas, a lot of Americans seem to think that they have the right to take their culture and impose it on where they are visiting. One of the things that pisses me off so much about American tourists: they force the culture to adapt to them, instead of just flowing into the culture that they are visiting.

In America - sadly - most people have a view that dining out is about getting what you want (not in the high end restaurants, but most places); in Japan, the attitude is more rightly "Let's see what artistry the cook is going to offer us, because the chef is an artist, and needs to be able to fully express himself with his food". Just like I wouldn't expect a painter to change the color of a painting to suit my sensibility, I wouldn't expect a chef to change his cooking art to suit me.

Your words are very telling: when i'm ordering a meal, anywhwer in the world, and I'M paying for it - i expect it to be prepared to my liking.

[DS1]

45. You're making the exact same argument the right-wingers

are making against illegal immigrants :thumbsdown:

[Rabrrrrrr]

55. That doesn't mean it's wrong in my case -

Though I'm clearly in a minority amongst Americans (but seemoingly in a majority amongst DUers) that I feel it's important to adapt to a culture when I'm visiting it as a guest, and not force it to adapt to me, which means I should learn their customs and conform to their standards of "being in public"; not expect them to conform to mine.

The issue of immigration is entirely different, because immigrants are in a country for a totally different reason, and at a totally different level of economic power, than a tourist.

[Runcible Spoon]

69. cultural interaction is just that-reflexive

Not only should we desire others to respond to us and we to them when we interact, but we should recognize it as inevitable and take that opportunity to be aware of the reflexive dynamics. On edit: I may have offended some people by refusing to eat meals with meat but my host family got over it after 3 or 4 exhortations about my picky American palate, but I had dietary restrictions, and then again I didn't freak out during interviews where the otherwise charming consultants would mine their nose for gold like it weren't no thang. And it wasn't to them, and it took just a few minutes for me to get over myself and them over themselves :)
see my post below :) I love this topic tho.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. In America it's expected, yes; in Japan, it is rude.

[dysfunctional press]

9. well, the japanese need to get over themselves-

as it's even more rude for a restaurant staff to be judgemental about people who commit the grievous sin of ordering food they plan to eat and pay for to be prepared to their liking.

[jpgray]

12. Think of it this way

It would be like going to an Italian restaurant and telling the chef exactly how many minutes to boil the linguine--not cool. You could do it, yeah, but it's a little unnecessary, no?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. The JAPANESE need to get over themselves?

It's their country. They set the rules. End of story.

[Rabrrrrrr]

23. No, you are totally wrong. AMERICA sets the rules.

Especially in this post-9-11 era, the day that ushered in the age of Everything's Changed.

[treestar]

30. I think you have it; as Americans would puff up with outrage should

any Japanese tourist ever be caught doing a similar thing

[Derailer]

66. Except its not a rule at all

its just a ridiculous, overblown cultural idosyncracy that you probably care about more than they do

[pitohui]

16. a lot of younger americans are hard of hearing

they have devices pumping sound waves into their ears half the time so they are really hard of hearing and prob. will never have any clue how loud they are

old ones are deaf too but you expect it from the old folk

as far as the food issue, americans have little vacation time and rarely get the opportunity to travel for more than a week or two at a time, hence are not going to be able to learn all the fine refinements of a culture even if they have the best heart in the world

i should think most people realize that someone doesn't spend a lot of money on airfare to travel to a foreign country because they despise the people and want to insult them, but in my experience even the french were friendly and the people of kyoto overwhelmingly so to the point where they wanted me to take photos with them, only one chef in paris offered to be in my photos, tee hee, so anyway i think the steak thing is not an important issue to a realistic person, do the best you can and move on, i doubt the chef was that terribly offended, kyoto knows it's a tourist destination

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. You are right on all counts

Americans are listening to far too much earphone music - and boom cars - and their hearing IS going to shit.

Americans also DO NOT get enough vacation time. That's a big issue for me (though I get plenty of vacation): I think we'd be a better country if EVERYONE had four weeks a year, or more, like every other civilized country.

And yes, Kyoto is very courteous and understanding, so I doubt anyone was actually offended by the request with the meat, especially since it was a foreigner doing it. God knows I've made my gaffes, and the Japanese have always been courteous and understanding. It's just that with this group, that was one more nail in the coffin, so to speak. :-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Asshole Americans in Japan

U.S. military-looking types (there are a couple of bases near Tokyo) riding the commuter trains and talking loudly about how they'd like to fuck various Japanese women they see. Most Japanese don't understand spoken English well, but I could tell that some of the people on the train did.

My story in the Travel Group about how my ex had a fit because a pure Japanese restaurant in Tokyo wouldn't serve him milk with his meal. (Never mind that the idea of milk with sashimi is nauseating...) He insisted that the restaurant SHOULD HAVE had milk on hand. Oh, yes, and he talked louder than the entire rush hour crowd at Shinjuku Station. That encounter reminded me why he was my ex.

A family of Americans, Mom, Dad, and two teen-age sons, all dressed in baseball caps, T-shirts, sweat shorts, and white tennies (family uniform?), all shaped--well, let's say they were not shaped in such a way to wear those outfits well--lumber up to the information desk in Tokyo Station and demand to know where the Holiday Inn is. The woman at the information desk takes out a map of central Tokyo and circles the location of the Holiday Inn. It's eight blocks away.

The Americans then ask the info desk woman to see if there are any rooms available. Now this is really outside her job description, which is mostly to give directions about finding things in the labyrinth that is Tokyo Station, but she's a nice Japanese lady who has been brought up to be helpful to guests, no matter how weird or obnoxious, so she calls the Holiday inn and finds out that they do have the requisite number of rooms. However, the tourists exclaim loudly and long about how expensive the rooms are.

They then discuss whether they should rent a car to go to the Holiday Inn, unaware that 1) There is no place to rent a car around Tokyo Station. It is densely urban. 2) Driving in Tokyo is sheer madness, and for the distance they're going, walking would be faster, 3) Unless they have acquired an international driver's license, they can't drive legally in Japan.

At this point, I intervene and explain these facts. They are astounded, as if none of this ever occurred to them before. I suggest walking or taking a cab. The look of shock on their faces when I suggest walking tells me that I'd better teach them how to take cabs in Tokyo.

Actually, I'm surprised that a lot of people survive their trips to Japan. If you frequent travel websites, you see all kinds of people who write in with questions like, "What is there to see and do in Tokyo?"

And I tell them that any shopping mall bookstore has guidebooks that answer their question. Sometimes they get snarky and even claim that guidebooks are too expensive. (Let me get this straight: you're taking a $3,000 trip, and you can't spend $25 on a guidebook?)

It is such people who arrive at Narita Airport, hop into a cab, and find out only after three hours stuck in traffic and the equivalent of $200 on the meter, that the airport is 40 miles out of town. People who have done their homework take a bus ($30) or a train ($15 to $30, depending on which train you take.)

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. ROTFL! None of that surprises me at all!

Especially the americans wanting someone to get them a room and carry them there. Sweet Jesus, we're a piggy country.

I'm not sure if I would have intervened for that family. Probably would have said, "Hmm... I could be nice just to help out the information desk lady; but on the other hand, I could let the family go fuck themselves. I think I'll let them go fuck themselves."

You're a better person than I, Lydialeftcoast!

And milks with sushi - that's just gross! I wouldn't even drink soy milk with sushi. Ick!

[WolverineDG]

32. I try to step in & help too

if only so the other person can see that not all Americans are clueless goobers. ;) I once sat next to a family of 5 at a cafe in Paris. All of them wanted to order Cokes at the table but then mom & dad started worrying about their budget. They were also not looking at the prix fixe menu. I got mom's attention & pointed out the prix fixe menu (which included things the kids might like), as well as the fact that it would be much cheaper for her to run into a Monoprix & buy a six pack of Coke (or three) & keep them in the hotel room instead of spending an outrageous amount on them at the table. I told her how to order water for free. It all made me wonder if they'd bothered to read those guidebooks they were carrying.

dg

[LynneSin]

19. I try to travel to places where thre aren't that many Americans

Or, like with Costa Rica, travelled in the off season where there were more locals and less Americans. I'm an American and I can honestly say that Americans are the worst travellers. We has a blast in Costa Rica - we were the only Americans but a slew of folks from Europe who we had a great time with!

[clyrc]

20. I spend months preparing for a vacation

by reading everything I can find about the area I'm going to, on the Internet and in books. Right now my family is planning on going to Munich in July, with side trips to the German Alps to see castles. I will probably read the one guide book I have on hand til it's almost memorized, then get another one. I make iteneraries and alternate iteneraries, obsessively. Knowing full well that if I want to do something unplanned at least I will have some idea of how I can do it. Two years ago in Germany, we were staying in Dusseldorf and visiting Cologne, when we found out that Neanderthal was nearby. We went, and it was so beautiful and a highlight of the trip.

And as far as cultural sensitivies go, I was terrified of doing the wrong thing when I first moved to the Middle East. My first few months here I was in a fog of anxiety lest I offend someone. I learned to majorly relax, because I learned some things and because people don't have unrealistic expectations of Westerners here, but still it sometimes seems I'm so reluctant to offend that I don't even have a personality.

[flygal]

28. If you want to get a good German experience visit E. Germany

I live near the Hartz mountains and NEVER run into Americans. There are some incredible places that are so much more rustic than W. Germany b/c they were unharmed by the war. There are some unsightly old DDR style apt complexes but less so up in the Harz.

I also recommend visiting Dresden and taking a train along the Elba into Prague - a few castles to see and Prague is so pretty. Leipzig is also great for history and very few Americans. You will need a phrase book for the Harz - almost no English. Bigger cities you'll be alright though.

The Germans here laugh about Americans saying they only visit Rothenburg, Neu Schwanstein, and the Rhine River - proove them wrong - come visit us!!!! LOL

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. I'm going on a European vacation in a few months.

I just hope the locals don't assume that I like Chimpy and Co. :scared:

[Random_Australian]

26. Stereotypical American: Fat, unsatisfied, LOUD, white guy who

overestimates the importance of his job.

And all countries believe that Amercians are nuts when it comes to religion.

Did you not know?

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. I am not fat unsatisfied, loud, or a man. The only part there that is

correct is that I am white. I know some are joking around a bit here, but I'm proud of my ancestors coming here, I'm proud of who I am...I am respectful of other's traditions, nationalities, religious beliefs. I really hate HATE stereotypes of all sorts. I'm no better than the next guy, and there are a lot of decent people here in this country. I'm worn out from it all.

[treestar]

31. Had this experience at a baseball game

Bunch of college students sitting behind us. We had no choice but to listen to every word of their stupid conversation. One of them was drunk and really loud.

There is this tendency to think you have to comandeer the attention if you go into a place? Some sort of insecurity about domination? Or just not being heard by people who are only half attending? You can talk to a lot of Americans and realize they aren't paying attention to you. I've done it too, people rambling on to me about things while I just think of something else.

American culture in this era does have a problem with silence. Being quiet is some sort of admission of weakness, it seems. You have radios and TVs on everywhere. Nothing can just be discussed, it has to be proclaimed and announced and everything has to be certain and defined. At least to some majority or large minority whose loudness makes them look like a majority.

[NewJeffCT]

33. A tour guide in China explained differences between US & European tourists

I went on a 7 day tour of Mainland China about 18 months ago. The group I went with was Americans, but most were ABC (American Born Chinese), Americans born in Taiwan, or - surprisingly - Americans of Vietnamese descent. So, the tour guides spoke in both English & Mandarin Chinese. I was one of the few white people, and I'm pretty sure we didn't offend anybody.

But, every day it was up around 6:00 or 6:30am, shower & eat a quick breakfast then we're on the road for a long day of sightseeing. We'd eat a late lunch and then we'd end the day with dinner around 7:00pm or later. Sometimes, there were even things that happened after dinner - i.e., after our day climbing the Great Wall, they said that after dinner, we could go to this place that specialized in massages.

One day the tour guide was chatting with my wife and me, and said that they do the exact same tour for Europeans, but it is over 10 or 11 days. People from Europe don't want to get up early, and don't want to be running around the Forbidden City at 8:00pm at night. They like to end their day early so they can spend time shopping or just relaxing and seeing sites on their own. With Americans, he said, it was rush-rush-rush and see as much as possible and do as much as possible until you're worn out at the end of the day. I'm sure part of that is due to less vacation time here in the US, but I think it's also the mentality here as well.

Luckily, we had 5 days on our own after the tour to visit with my in-laws in China after that, as I am sure I would have been dead tired for a week if I had to fly home right after the tour.

[treestar]

47. I can identify

A vacation is like "work." It's exhausting.

The point is to relax. I like to vacation on my own. Even my own family is hard to relax around. Always planning what to do next, you can't even enjoy what you're doing now because they're talking about the logistics for tomorrow. I thought it was just my family but they could be typical.

[Fleshdancer]

34. Americans are definitely loud

The funniest (and saddest) thing I saw while living in Japan was a drunk American yelling at the cashier in a McDonald's for not taking his US Dollars as payment. It was ridiculous.

Could you imagine a Japanese person coming to America and then yelling and screaming because the sushi restaurant wouldn't accept Yen? Who does that?

:wtf:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. About twenty years ago, I was Narita Airport, in the departure area

and who should turn up but members of the Chicago board of aldermen.

I know they were members of the Chicago board of aldermen, because when the snack bar attendant refused to take dollars, they loudly told her that they were members of the Chicago board of aldermen.

I stepped in and explained that it is illegal to use anything except yen in Japan.

"But this is the airport," one of them saId, with a dazed look.

I asked them if a Japanese tourist could use yen at a snack bar at O'Hare. They admitted that he couldn't, but they seemed to think that it was a terrible injustice that they couldn't use American money at Narita.

I think that attitude is left over from the post-World War II occupation era, when dollars were coveted because they could be used to buy items stolen from the American bases. One of the aldermen may have had a father or uncle who told him how "the Japs would kiss your ass just to get hold of some good old American greenbacks."

Uh, times have changed.

[kay1864]

36. ITA--I can't stand that attitude

I was in line at McDonald's at an airport (Amsterdam or Madrid, can't remember) and an American woman ahead of me said loudly, "Do I get my change in REAL money?"

Sheesh. :eyes:

[anarch]

37. the problem I have with going to foreign countries

is that not everybody speaks English. I mean, most of them do, but sometimes you run into some rube who doesn't, and it's very annoying. Also, these places tend to be full of foreigners, which isn't too cool.



----

Yeah, Americans are assholes, mostly. Sorry, Americans. I am one myself, and I am surely an asshole, so don't think I'm just pointing fingers here...I know.

[Fleshdancer]

43. rofl!

Not only do some of them NOT speak American, but they do things differently! Did you know that some of those people even drive on the wrong side of the road? What's up with that?? And don't get me started on their weird "money".

:rofl:

[NewWaveChick1981]

48. I was a part of a tour group (mostly Americans) in the UK

in 2000, and we had Aussies, New Zealanders, and two Japanese in our group as well. Most of the people in our group seemed enlightened and ready to experience a different country. The only exceptions were a husband and wife from Texas who saw a black man on our first day of the trip, minding his own business, walking down the street in Durham. The wife took it upon herself to yell out the window of the bus, "Go back to Africa, you dumb ni**er!" The husband said, "Yeah, get outta here!" :grr: I was dumbstruck (or gobsmacked, as the case may be :)---absolutely appalled---and leaned over to them and said as nicely as I could after a racist outburst like that, "We're guests here---he's a local. He's minding his own business. That wasn't OK to do!" The woman glared at me and said, "So you don't think ni**ers belong back in Africa?" I said, "I'm not going to get into a shouting match with you. You just need to keep your opinions to yourself when you are out in public, especially in a country where you are just a visitor." :grr: :grr: :grr:

The rest of the trip, which was ten days, no one would talk to them much. Everyone else got along very well, and privately, many of them (including me) were aghast at how horrible they were to that man. Obviously, they had been racist for a very long time. :( It just reinforced how awful Americans can be when they go abroad. It's a stereotype, but it's well-deserved.

[DS1]

49. Someone should've punched them both in the mouth

wow

[NewWaveChick1981]

50. I almost did, but they weren't worth the effort.

They were such pieces of trash. :( By the end of the tour, the ostracizing had the desired effect. They were pretty subdued and began apologizing to everyone. However, the person they needed to apologize to, the poor innocent guy walking down the street, was long gone. :(

Edited to add: I think they thought it was a "whites only" tour and were going to a "whites only" country. Little did they know about the diversity they would encounter, both in the UK and in our tour group. :)

[Fleshdancer]

60. holy crap

I don't even know what to say. Just...wow.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[NewWaveChick1981]

61. Yeah, I was almost speechless.

I nearly asked them if their pointy white hats were in their suitcases, but that would only have made matters worse. After that totally racist outburst, no one wanted to have anything to do with them. The rest of us just pretended they weren't there and enjoyed ourselves anyway.

BTW, the tour guide wasn't on the bus at the time; he was off getting things lined up for us to go into Durham Cathedral. The bus driver was circling the block at the time, so we were kind of a captive audience. A man from the group pulled the tour guide aside when we were walking to the cathedral, and I later saw the guide talking to the couple. What a touchy situation! :yoiks:

[Crazy Dave]

38. When I lived in Germany 1981-1983....

...there were local restaurants and bars that were "off-limits" with signs posted that no American G.I.'s were allowed to enter as we were told by our country introduction class instructor. We were told that "the German people don't understand and appreciate the American's way of getting drunk, getting loud and getting into fights when they drink at a bar". Needless to say I found out that it mainly applied to young men in a group or by themselves. The rest of the time if you went in with German or British friends or with a female date you were allowed in without even a glance. Young G.I. men by themselves, not allowed and could be arrested if they didn't leave.

Edit - I think the young women G.I.'s were pretty much allowed anywhere as they usually weren't trouble makers.

[grace0418]

39. I had the SAME experience in Japan and Spain! I was so embarrassed

to be in the vicinity of those people.

In Madrid we were constantly amazed that so many people could gather in the public squares at night and yet somehow it didn't turn into a free-for-all like it would've with the same size crown in the U.S. Sure, people were happy and laughing and boisterous, enjoying a nightly walk and visiting with friends (a custom I find SO lovely). But there wasn't that loud, drunken, frat-boy stupidity you see at public gatherings in Chicago, where there always has to be someone who is so obnoxious you end up wanting to leave.

The worst thing I witnessed happened late one afternoon. We'd been walking around all day and decided to stop in Plaza Mayor to rest our feet and snack on some of the goodies we'd been carrying around. It was a gorgeous October day and people were bustling around the plaza doing whatever business they had. We spotted this very old, very sweet couple slowly walking through the square and we couldn't take our eyes off of them. They were the quintessential old married couple still very much in love and we immediately loved them.

Well, they made it about halfway through (it's a very large open area surrounded by beautiful old buildings) before a group of extremely drunk American guys came lurching into the plaza. They looked to be a little older than college-age, maybe taking one last trip before one of them got married or something. Who knows? But clearly they weren't in Spain to learn about it's customs, history and art. They were there to party. Their idiotic grunts, shouts and laughter absolutely exploded in the plaza as soon as they entered. It wasn't long before they spotted the old couple and started taunting and laughing at them, teasing them for god knows what reason. The couple, who just minutes before were smiling and happy while enjoying their walk, got very agitated and tense. Not knowing what these assholes were saying or what they were going to do, they quickly changed direction and tried to walk as quickly as they could towards one of the exits.

My husband and I were quite a ways away from them but I was absolutely livid. I shouted "LEAVE THEM ALONE YOU ASSHOLES!" but I don't even know if they heard me. If they did, they didn't care. Eventually they turned their attention to a pretty girl or something and the couple left. I was so angry I couldn't think straight. I don't think they were going to harm or injure the couple, but just the idea that they thought it was amusing to harass them really pissed me off. :mad: :mad: :mad:

In Japan I was constantly being told how polite I was for an American. And it's not like I even had much time to learn many words or customs (I found out I was going two weeks before I went). I just tried to be observant and I was interested in learning about the country. It's really not that hard, but many Americans feel so entitled to their obnoxious behavior.

I tell you, my husband and I always take it as a HUGE compliment when we are stopped in a foreign city and asked for directions in the native language of the place. It means we're blending in!

[DS1]

40. Yeah, but you didn't

you just sat there and sucked it up like a meek little impotent Nipponese, until one day you going fucking nuts and bomb Pearl Harbor and a couple years later someone drops a nuke on your ass. twice.

wuss.

[gollygee]

41. As for the steak

I think tourists should educate themselves as best they can before they travel so they can conform to the cultural norms. That said, no one is perfect and perhaps these tourists weren't aware of this particular cultural issue. They might have been simply ignorant, and every tourist is likely to be ignorant to some extent. I'd cut them some slack on that one.

As for the rest, yes Americans are very loud. Some particular so. I know some people who seem to talk loud on purpose as if they're entertaining the rest of the restaurant. They look around to see if people are listening and seem to hope they are. That is annoying as hell.

[DS1]

46. and ANOTHER THING!

there's only one story here, so you hyped up the title with a known falsehood, you bloviated self-important American meat-eater :P

[Rabrrrrrr]

54. Not only a bloviated self-important American meat-eater; a lazy one, too.

After I wrote that story, that ended up longer than I had intended it to be, I didn't feel like writing the other stories. And I also didn't feel like editing the thread title.

So if you're going to insult me, try to do a full job of it, you shitkicking sloth. I'm a LAZY bloviated self-important American meat-eater, not just a bloviated self-important American meat-eater.

By the way, I ate HORSE tonight at a sushi bar. Yes, that's right - HORSE. And yes, that also is right - RAW.

RAW HORSE.

And I have to say, it was goddamned good! I'd never had horse before.

[Patiod]

51. Loud loud loud

My last night in Venice, I ate at a little outdoor restaurant in a small square in front of the Arsenal (probably a zoo during the Biennial, but quiet that evening). I was seating next to a table of loud wealthy Americans (they talked a lot about their country club and the expensive colleges the kids went to). Dad, stepmom, and kids, and I was privy to every single word, on a night I wanted some quiet. But I did enjoy watching the daughter try desperately to communicate how unhappy she was that Dad had remarried, and the stepmom try to be mature about it.

On the other hand, the next morning little Miss Mono-lingual was checking out of the hotel, and asked the front desk what all those little rainbow flags were - the ones that said "Pace" (which I pronounced "pace") that were hanging out so many windows. The guy was SO polite, he explained it meant "Peace" and was pronounced "Pa-chey", and was a protest against the Iraq invasion. I told him >50% of the US was against this President, (but I had no excuse for not knowing basic Latin in spite of a college diploma...)

[Derailer]

65. I think it was Italian not Latin

because the latin is pa-kay, no "ch" sound I think

[Arugula Latte]

53. Oh gawd.

I want to curl up into a fetal position after reading these posts. Ugh.

I, too, have seen some toe-curling behavior from American assholes abroad. That's when you want to melt into the woodwork to disassociate yourself from these dumbass loudmouths.

[cobalt1999]

56. I've seen the "typical american tourist" many times, but...

when I've been in Japan, they seem to REALLY hate the Chinese tourists much more than the Americans, in Italy/France they bitch about the Germans, in Sweden they bitch about the Southern Europeans.

In the 60' & 70's, it was mostly Americans, but if you pay attention, you'll see the same behavior from lots of groups.

[Rabrrrrrr]

57. Thankfully, the Japanese like Americans; but yes, they still look at

the Chinese and Koreans as animals. They might not admit it, but the culture is still quite anti-Korea and anti-Chinese.

The Japanese are very polite, but they are profoundly arrogant.

[cobalt1999]

62. Yep, quite anti-Korean and anti-Chinese.

I dated a Japanese girl for a while who wouldn't even eat rice from China. I think she even used the "animal" comment.

[Fleshdancer]

67. I saw that first hand

When we were looking to rent an apartment, many landlords would ask what nationality we were. Once they realized we weren't Korean, they would allow us to rent if we wanted to. Only one said no to us and one required an interview. We ended up renting a house in Fujisawa from a very nice woman who loves traveling to America whenever she gets the chance. :shrug:

[Lars39]

58. The couple seated next to your table and the party of eight

may have been thinking the same about *your* table. ;)
Truly, it's one thing to be ignorant about a country's customs,
but quite another to make that ignorance part of your scintillating conversation.

[Runcible Spoon]

68. honestly this is tame and a bit of much ado over nothing.

I've done quite a bit of work on tourism, in my case Guatemala and even in remote rural populations, if there's a visible tourist presence then some interesting things happen. Of relevance here is the remarkable reflexivity and pragmatism that locals will employ when dealing with tourists. Of course there will always be a vocal segment that whines when tourists do something that they consider offensive but honestly most people with sustained economic and social interaction with tourists are pretty adaptable to this. For example I've seen tourists just wantonly photgraph street vendors and their kids without asking, and one strategy is for the vendor to ask to see the camera, feigning absolute fascination of such a high tech piece of Western technology, and then proceed to take awkward photos of the tourists! :evilgrin: It's pretty good natured, the tourists are subtly reminded of boundaries and the vendors get a big chuckle.
From what I've read and experienced, there's a darkish side to this rhetoric about rigid provincial "natives" who will string you up and treat you rudely if you don't pussyfoot around, afraid of offending them. It depicts locals as unchangeable, primitively rooted to "their way or no way", static, and essentially reinforces the "us/Other" dichotomy. Now I'm not saying their aren't asshole tourists who do often unconsciously or even deliberately ignore or ouright violate social boundaries. However the vast majority of the time it's harmless and in this case those students were probably par for the course for that restaurant's staff.

Hell, I'm a doctoral candidate in anthropology and I will always make some faux pas in the field. The vast majority of the time I eat some crow and supply some amusement(salient example-me attempting a hand formed tortilla), and most often these encounters represent opportunities to start fruitful exchages about each other's cultural practices.

[Derailer]

70. a better response than this shitty thread deserved

[Runcible Spoon]

71. thanks...

I'm pretty tolerant of people who trot out the white American devil tourist stereotype...essentially their hearts are in the right place and I feel motivated to take their desire to be culturally sensitive and work with that. Humor helps, and I emphasize that when I teach about tourism. Eating crow is a cultural universal and tensions only arise when one party is taking itself a bit too seriously :evilgrin: I've also seen a lot of tourists who will essentially avoid any interaction with the locals b/c they are afraid of offending them, and ironically the locals think they are the most aloof and rude.

Maybe I'm just in a good mood :)

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

77. ...

:eyes:

[Left_Winger]

75. I had an embarrassing experience last year

I am a German teacher.

Every now and again I take my students to Germany as an incentive for them to study in my class. Last June we were in Hamburg and this one student, who I reluctantly allowed to participate, was unhappy that in Europe free refills are rare to non-existent. So, as we were in a restaurant this student pulls out a two litre bottle of Pepsi, which was purchased elsewhere, and begins to fill glasses. I immediately put a stop to this (normally I'm a mild mannered old coot) and informed the student just how embarrassing this was. I said rather firmly, "One does not take their own food into a restaurant." No effect. The reaction of the student was: "They (the Germans) were so unfair and trying to take advantage of us."

I was so embarrassed.

To me this was the embodiment of egocentrism and "the ugly American."

I apologised to the owners most graciously and gave them about a 30% tip to compensate for the rudeness of my student.

[democracyindanger]

76. Here's one with some comeuppance

A friend of mine was in China in high school for some athletic thing. He and a couple friends went to a department store and were on the elevator when an asian woman got on with her baby.

My friend, being the high school asshole he was, looked at the baby and smiling, said, "That's a very ugly baby you have, ma'am."

The woman looked at him and said, "I'm from New Jersey."