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Speaking of movies... questions about "Chinatown"

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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 06:15 PM
Original message
Speaking of movies... questions about "Chinatown"
I posted these in another area of DU that doesn't get much traffic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=210&topic_id=13435&mesg_id=14230

Anyone know the answers?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. In the tradition of Noir mysteries, you have to watch it several times.
You wont "get" The Big Sleep until you watch it about 5 times either.

Have fun!
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. But I have seen it like 5 times
and this last time, I watched really, really carefully, trying to catch every nuance. That's why it surprised me that I still had unanswered questions.
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. anyone else?
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. This might help:
How did Noah Cross kill Mulwray? They had argued earlier that evening, and Jake's associate had overheard only one word, I think it was (?) "applecore" -- what is the significance of that word? And, did Evelyn know what happened? Or was she not at home at the time?

Where were Cross and Mulwray when the argument took place, and was photographed?


Noah Cross killed Mulwray in Mulwray's backyard pool. Near the end, when the Asian gardener says, "salt water bad for glass," (he had mentioned "glass" before to Jake) he really meant "grass." The mention of salt water this time around grabs Gittes' attention because Mulwray had salt water in his lungs, despite allegedly being drowned in a freshwater reservoir, the same one from where his body was discovered. Gittes finds a pair of bifocals in the pool, thinking they're Mulwray's, but Evelyn later says they're not -- they actually belong to Cross.

Evelyn likely was home at the time of the murder, but was forced into silence by Cross because of her incestuous relationship with him, her father.

"Apple core" was what Gittes' associate thought he heard when Mulwray and Cross were arguing outside the Pig 'N' Whistle, a restaurant on Hollywood Boulevard. What he really heard was "Albacore," the club Cross owned that did charitable work for the Mar Vista Retirement Home, which was the residence of senior citizens whom Cross pretended were the buyers of the thousands of acres of dry land.

Cross used the senior citizens as "dummy owners," so to speak, because he wanted to secretly purchase all that land and divert L.A.'s water there, which would increase the value of the land (and Cross' profits) tenfold or more. Gittes finds it odd that a man named Jasper Lamar Crabb "bought" the land two weeks prior when Crabb had, in fact, died three weeks prior -- that's what tips him off to the Mar Vista Retirement Home.

Who hired Ida Sessions? Cross? How did Ida know about the Mar Vista retirement home, and that one of it's occupants had died and that his name was used in the land scam? And how did that land scam work? Since Cross/Albacore Club "took care" of the home, did Cross get access to the residents's info, and used that to buy land in their names? Did the residents somehow have their assets all signed over to the retirement home, so that when they died, the home got their land?

Cross hired Ida Sessions. Presumably, Cross told her about Mar Vista, and Ida's original purpose was to frame Mulwray having an affair, though the woman he was allegedly having the "affair" with was in fact Evelyn's sister/daughter. Cross wanted to blackmail Mulwray with this alleged evidence because Mulwray didn't want to go along with the land/water scam. I assume Mar Vista got the properties when the senior citizens died, but the home was basically a front for Cross' Albacore Club.

Evelyn didn't like Gittes' photos of Mulwray appearing in the paper and threatens to sue. At this point, she doesn't know her father's plan. Later on, she says she'll drop the lawsuit against Gittes -- this is after she knows Cross killed Mulwray, but before Jack discovers Mulwray's dead body. Unfortunately for Evelyn, Gittes doesn't let up on her.

Who killed Ida and why?

Cross (or an associate of his) killed Sessions, I think, after she told Gittes everything over the phone. Cross wanted to cover his tracks.

When Jake asked Evelyn whether it was rape, she denied it. Wha? She seduced her father? or?
Cross raped Evelyn, resulting in her sister/daughter, but Evelyn obviously didn't want that info to get out.

What was Mulwray's relationship to Kathryn? Like a father, or did they have something going on?
Presumably, just a simple (maybe not) father-daughter relationship. Kathryn was really the only person Cross had a connection to.

Hope all of this helps. :hi:


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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ohhh! You know the movie well!
Did you rewatch it recently, or had you analyzed it carefully before?

You brought one point to my attention that I had missed: that "applecore" was really "albacore" -- good catch!!

There are still some muddy points though.

1) I can see that Cross (or an associate) hired Ida Sessions, but what would be the reason for telling her about the Mar Vista home? Unless she was connected to Cross more deeply, had done other similar "jobs" for him, which would have allowed her to know a bit more about his business entanglements. But, if she were hired just for this one thing, to impersonate Evelyn, then it doesn't make sense that she would know other details, such as the land scam.

2) How did Cross know that Ida had called Jake?

3) I wonder what Cross and Mulwray were arguing about wherein the word "Albacore" would even come up? I realize that the argument was probably about Mulwray discovering that the water was being diverted and that the supposed draught was manufactured, but how does the Albacore Club figure in? Cross maybe said: "...and I'll be at the Albacore if you want to discuss this further??" ... or ?? I can't imagine that Cross was explaining the scam to Mulwray at that point. I'm trying to envision a scenario other than that the scene was manufactured for the film, a device to reveal pieces of the plot to either the viewer or to Jake (maybe I'm expecting too much from a script!)

4) the incest -- Jake pointedly asks Eveyln if it had been rape. He knew it was incest at that point, so if it had been rape, why would she deny it? Is she demonstrating that she felt guilt all those years, that she had been responsible rather than a victim? Or, are we to believe that perhaps, and this is possible, that a 15-year-old girl seduced her father?

5) it's still not absolutely clear to me what Mulwray's relationship to Kathryn was -- I'm tending to believe it was strictly paternal, but given the whole Cross/Evelyn thing, who knows?

Thanks for your detailed comments! I figure if I'm going to deconstruct a film, might as well take it all the way to the slightest details!
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