When do I give up on the bike thing?

[taterguy]

I spend a lot of time and energy advocating that people use bikes for transporation instead of cars because cars and the oil they consume have a nasty effect on the Earth's environment and politics. I never seem to change any minds. When should I just accept that people aren't going to ride bikes no matter what I do or say? When do I start shopping for my own SUV? Just wondering.

[Lautremont]

1. Fellow bike rider here:

Buy an SUV and I'll key it as I ride by.

Kidding, but don't give up.

[taterguy]

6. Key it even if it has an enviromentalist bumpersticker on it?

:evilgrin:

[Lautremont]

15. Especially if!

That's Pastor Ted-level hypocrisy.

Edited to add: I know you're kidding, but my post didn't look that way! Anyway, keep fighting the good fight, and of course the good fight includes trying to get bike paths or lanes happening - that's one of the best ways to get people on board.

[taterguy]

25. Pastor Ted Level Hypocrisy would be a great band name n/t

[Blue-Jay]

2. Yes, because

it's either ride a bike or drive an SUV.

Perhaps you should try to be encouraging instead of scolding.

Oh, and I'm a cyclist and I mostly use public transportation, so don't even try it.

[taterguy]

8. I try both methods

I was just in a venting mood in my original post. My positive reinforcements seems to have the same effect as scolding: nil. I accept that people need to drive some places but do they really need to drive all the time? The grocery stores in my town have no bike racks, despite the fact that they're within a couple miles of thousands of houses

[Blue-Jay]

9. I run into that sometimes.

There's always a tree or a fence of something nearby, luckily.

[supernova]

3. When we start building cities

that are more bike/walker friendly.

The way we plan now, you pretty much have to have a car.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Be true to yourself... respect the obligations of others.

I cannot give up a car, because doing so would give up my income. Real Estate Appraisers cannot get to properties using anything other than a car. It would be financially and personally devastating for me to bike the sometimes 65 miles one way I drive for my job. I also spent time, money and energy on my education. I applaud your personal beliefs and only ask that you understand and appreciate my need to feed my family.

[taterguy]

20. Cars are used for lots of things that have nothing to do with work

Not trying to be snarky, just wondering why a car is a requirement to run all the non work related errands in our lives.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. Just wondering why it would matter. Perhaps I do my "errand running"

on the job. :shrug:

[taterguy]

24. It matters because the status quo is fucking up the planet

You might run all your errands on the job. Others don't. This isn't meant to be personal. I started the thread because I'm wondering if this whole auto thing is something unavoidable or if it's something that can be changed.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers. Yes, I think some drive when

they could walk. Others don't. I think what you are doing is very admirable... It's just not feasible for me right now. Get Detroit to have reliable public transportation or even joint car rentals and it may become moreso.

[taterguy]

28. English, do you speak it?

My post had nothing to do with walking, it was about bicycles. I'm sorry but this is the kind of attitude that makes me think the situation is just hopeless. Think I'll just go get drunk now. Sigh.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. Politeness? Familiar with it. There's your problem. If you're going to

act like an asshole...I'll speak to you as one. In French, German or English. Take your pick. But now I know why no one listens to you. You lack proper people skills.

[Deja Q]

5. There is no bus service around and I am incapable of riding a bike.

I know how, but an inner ear problem renders the efficacy of bike-riding nil.

[China_cat]

7. It's hard to ride a bike when there's no safe place to do so.

Our roads aren't set up with bike lanes and are usually too narrow for safe riding...except where they are wide enough but bicycles are prohibited.

You aren't going to get people to use bicycles until you get drivers to accept them as transportation.

[taterguy]

11. That's honestly not my personal experience

I get around just fine on a bike. I've done over 20,000 miles on roads and never had any major problems. I think it's just the fact that it's an alien experience that scares people. Flying scares me but when it's the best way to get somewhere I get over my fears

[China_cat]

14. Come to Charleston

and try riding a bike anywhere.

You'll find that an experience that will convince you that you have nothing to fear from flying.

[taterguy]

18. You're missing the point

I live in a city where it's possible to safely ride a bike. If it wasn't I'd be typing this from the grave. What I'm wondering is at what point I just give up, because quite frankly I'm getting sick of feeling like a freak.

ps: I can't say for sure but I doubt that the roads in Charleston are significantly different than the roads I ride on every day, since I also live in a medium sized Southeastern city

[China_cat]

21. You're missing my point

that it isn't so much the roads themselves as the attitudes of the people behind the wheels of those cars. That's what makes the 'roads' so unsafe...that especially when there's little room, drivers are not willing to share the road.

[taterguy]

22. My question was when do I give up?

I'm talking existential crisis here

[China_cat]

26. You give up at the point my husband did.

A Dutchman used to bicycles being a legitimate mode of transport, he was hit by a car in mid morning while wearing a bright red jacket (plus he's 6'5"). The driver who hit him at first tried to say he didn't see him and then fell back on 'well, why were you riding a bicycle on roads meant for cars?' When it comes to the point of really knowing that they see you as nothing more than an annoyance at best, you give up, as he did, and start riding the bus. (We never had a vehicle until I became disabled and we need to schlep around my mobility scooter and wheelchair...no disabled bus service in this area)

Supreme irony of the man who hit my husband? He was an insurance agent.

[supernova]

16. Come to rural NC

I live on a very picturesque country road that LOTS of bikers love to use. It's small, twisty and curvy so you can't see very far in advance, and there is no shoulder. I'd be happy if the county built a bike path.

I'm just waiting for the day when a car collides with a bike.

[Maine-ah]

12. I think there are more places like ours than there are

safe riding places.

Personally, I really would rather not ride a bike mid-January to go grocery shopping nearly 10 miles away. yeah, ain't happening. I'll take my mid-sized suv, slap it in 4WD, and make it nice and safe, and warm to the grocery store.

[fight4my3sons]

49. Also from Maine and I was thinking the same regarding winter

weather. AWD minivan is fine for me and my three children who still require car seats. Grocery store (center store not included)and basically every other store, is about 10 miles away.

[CAcyclist]

13. Bicycles are not prohibited on any road except limited access

freeways and those freeways must specifically state that bikes are prohibited - some limited access freeways do actually allow bicycles.

My attitude has always been that I don't worry about the ones who don't want to ride a bike or are afraid to. My activism has always been directed at ways to improve accommodations and safety for those of us who do want to ride.

[CAcyclist]

10. Concentrate on the people who do want to ride bikes

Help them make their lives easier while biking. Stop worrying about the people who don't want to ride a bike.

[Shine]

17. As a fellow cyclist, I'm sorry you're feeling discouraged, taterguy

People have all sorts of justifications for their actions, and lack thereof, don't they?

Personally, I have often found whenever I am so attached to changing somebody else's mind about something, it ends up being a dissatisfying experience, to say the least. This can be anything from recycling, to politics, to parenting choices, the list is endless. Ultimately, we can't talk people into changing their behavior. They either choose to change, or not. Each person is responsible for whatever path they choose. I believe our task is to do what we can, educate when appropriate, and then let it go, to a certain extent...trusting that at least we, in our own small ways, are making a difference.

Yes, we impact each other by what we say and do...but we also have to respect that others might not agree with our perspectives. It's easier said, than done, I know. It's a fine and frustrating line to walk.

The important thing is, don't give up hope. EVERYTHING you do and say puts out a certain vibe about what you want to create in the world. YOU can walk your talk and know it makes a HUGE difference in the world.

It does to me. :hug:

[skygazer]

19. You can't change people's minds

You can only give them facts and options and hope they act upon them. You set yourself up for disappointment when you expect to force change.

That said, there are better ways to encourage people to use alternate forms of travel than by chiding or lecturing which you sometimes do. You don't seem to accept any reasons whatsoever that people give for not riding bikes and that's not particularly encouraging or helpful. You seem to assume that all of us could just give up our vehicles and ride bikes at the drop of a hat. It's unrealistic.

Sure, some of us could. Or perhaps some of us who don't could use mass transport. Some of us could carpool. There are ways other than biking that would cut down on gas and oil usage. But there has to be some flexibility in your views as well as ours. Expecting us to accept your arguments without accepting ours isn't really fair.

Case in point - I go to work at 3:30 in the morning. I live out in the middle of the woods. I am NOT going to get on a bike and ride to work in the dark at 3:30 in the morning. No matter what you may have to say. Nor am I going to move into a city just so I can ride a bike. I drive an extremely economical car that gets great mileage, I combine trips so I don't use it very often and I fill up once about every 2 weeks.

It's not always a choice between riding a bike and driving an SUV, you know.

[Mika]

29. You live in perfect place to ride a bike.

Plus, getting up and out on a bike at 3:30 isn't bad at all. I do it. Fresh air, few cars, you can hear the birds singing just before dawn, you can catch the sunrise. Its a healthy lifestyle choice. Its all good.

I live and ride in Miami (one of the places with the most dangerous drivers in the USA) and IMO you live in a perfect place for riding a bicycle.

(How's that for encouragement?)

[Haole Girl]

30. Don't give up, you can never give up...

...can anybody name that tune? Eagles, I think.

Anyway, don't give up! :hi:

[taterguy]

33. very clever

How did you know that one of my favorite movies is the Big Lebowski? Especially the scene where the Dude has had a rough night and gets kicked out of a cab because he hates the fucking Eagles

[hfojvt]

46. but the Dude

abides, doesn't he?

[Left Is Write]

32. Don't give up.

But it has to start somewhere other than the car drivers: change has to come at the government level, starting with communities making it safe and attractive for people to use bikes. Communities also need to look for ways to implement public transportation where there is none. People will not stop using cars as long as there are no other choices.

[regularguy]

34. Respectfully disagree:

I live in town where one could get by almost never using a car, between walking, biking and Public Trans. Yet almost everybody drives almost everywhere. I share the frustration of the OP, I've tried logic, I've tried shame, I've tried quietly setting a good example, but nothing works. Nothing. People's attitudes and habits will drive change IMHO, government action will follow (if it comes at all).

[taterguy]

38. Thank you

I was starting to wonder if I was the only one with these frustrations. Don't panic. I won't abandon my bike anytime soon. I ain't rich and I have better things to spend my money on than gas and car payments

[Left Is Write]

44. But you see, I *don't* live in such a town.

I'd have to live in downtown Boise - which would be fine, but there's limited housing directly downtown - and we're not in a position to do that right now.

It's simply not safe or practical to bike most places here (I can walk to the grocery store 1.7 miles from here), particularly with two young kids in tow. Make it safe, I'll gladly do it. It has to come at community level - and the communities need to demand the change from the local governments.

[hfojvt]

47. the point was

that even places where it is possible, not very many people do it.

One trouble though is that a car provides too much status, too much safety and too much freedom (in some sense, if you can overlook the $2000 a year that it costs). Once you have gone to the expense of owning a car, actually using it is not that large a cost.

[Left Is Write]

48. I understood the point.

[regularguy]

35. Keep riding, please!

But no, you won't change any minds. Maybe if gas goes to $10....

[Book Lover]

36. Well, if you're only selling a bike to replace a car, you should quit now

But if you want to talk to people about transit solutions, car/vanpooling, scooters/motorcycles and old-fashioned walking *as well as* bicycling, then I know you'll have a better chance of effecting change. That's what works for me.

[taterguy]

37. I think of bikes as a transportation supplement

I accept that cars are good for some things, I just think they're overused. If you're going to a city that's not served by AMTRAK, a car makes sense. If you're buying a 40 pound bag of dog food, use a car, unless you're a lot stronger than I am.

However, if you're going to the grocery store to pick up a couple meals use a bike and put your food in a back pack or on racks. That's what bugs me. The stores in this town are all surrounded by houses within a couple miles. However, even the most "green" store got rid of their bike rack because no one was using it.

[smalll]

39. Don't give up the bike, but you might want to give up your

cyclic evangelism if it's giving you stress. I have been riding to and from work a lot over the past few months, mostly because it gets me there a lot faster than the bus does. I HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH: how do you deal with RAIN? I can't see a solution to that one. If it's raining, I'm riding the bus for 50 minutes rather than biking to work in 25. Any ideas?

[taterguy]

41. for the rain

Stash a spare pair of socks and a shirt at your office. Buy a decent pair of rain pants and a good rain coat from your local outdoor specialty company. Technology is a wonderful thing. Fabrics designed to keep hikers dry are also quite effective for bike commuters. However, I admit that now that I've gotten in the habit of taking an expensive MP3 player to work I've been bad and driving if it's pouring down rain.

[smalll]

45. Thanks for the advice, although I was afraid it would be something like -

"Buy a decent pair of rain pants and a good rain coat from your local outdoor specialty company" - who cater to the same clientele who buy all their food organic and think nothing of flying off to Khatmandu for a week now and then - meaning huge-ass priceage! $$$

[OllieLotte]

40. I'd say after you get hit by a car the 2nd time...for sure.

Yep...I'd call it quits at that point.

[taterguy]

42. Haven't been hit yet

I'm not counting the time when I was a teenager and ran a stop sign since that was totally my fault

[RumpusCat]

43. Hey, I'm getting a bike for Christmas!

:hi: Unfortunately, it's not 'another car off the road' because I haven't owned a car in four years. I'm a lucky sort that lives in a big city with great public transportation. Still, though--yay for bikes! I haven't had one in years. :)

[billyoc]

50. Personally, if it won't start by the 10th kick,

I just walk. ;)