I come to you begging for advice. How would you handle this?

[2008]

One of your all-time closest friends, whom you LOVE very much, sends you the first several (i.e., way too many) pages of a book s/he is writing.

It bores the hell out of you, and worse yet, you see absolutely no point to any of what s/he has written, and must FORCE yourself, sentence after sentence, to plod through this crap.

S/he is, of course, dying for you to reply with your opinion of the story.

And there is, of course, and easy way out. You could lie.

What the hell does anyone with a conscience DO in this situation? PLEASE!!!

[av8rdave]

1. Is there anything at all to compliment about it?

You could lead off with that (whatever it is) and follow up with something like "the style doesn't work for me too well, so I have a hard time following it" or something along those lines.

Just one lame suggestion for you. Good luck.

[2008]

6. There are no typos

That's the best compliment I can give this story.

I'm beginning to think the author likes alcohol even more than I thought.

[Westegg]

35. Booze and prose--- a bad mix. I know...

...since I've tried it myself, as a journalist and, currently, a novelist. It simply doesn't work. Your mind has to be sharp, focused and energized in order to maintain the consistent effort necessary for a work of long fiction. I'm curious to know WHY you mention that about alcohol, however. Is it the meandering plot, or something else? (Sloppy typing? That's a joke-- kind of...)

I've long had the pleasure (and by "pleasure" I mean "torturous burden") of reading through many manuscripts, plays, screenplays, stories, etc. written by friends who were aspiring writers. Some were very good. Most were rubbish, written by people who naively think being a "writer" means sitting down and typing. It ain't quite that easy, alas. And it's never fun giving them your comments, but there are ways you can make it easier on yourself. First, you want to get as close as you can to a Zen-like state of calm and peacefulness. Seriously. This will help you keep things in perspective. Next, if you can, write your comments down, via email, letter, etc. Or if the author insists on a face to face, say, "I've written my thoughts down because there are so many." Writing them down avoids the need to answer painful questions like, "What was your absolute favorite part, and why?" or, "Didn't you love it when the bully got his head bitten off?" And it permits you to carefully consider, and maintain control of, the way you're going to give a response that isn't necessarily the absolute truth.

When constructing your comments, focus on what's good about the work. Yeah, this can be devilishly hard. Sometimes it's enough to begin as generally as possible: "You know, I really think your overall theme of a widow and her young son-- or the plight of the moose in Canada is a good one, and I think it's great you're taking it on. I applaud your courage."

Pleading ignorance works. I've now forgotten whether you are yourself a writer-- sorry!-- but if you are not, you can always says, "I simply don't know enough about the craft of writing to give you advice or feedback on this or that point."

Lie by omission. That's a given, and so easy to do!

If the subject matter is in any way far afield from what you normally like to read, it's easy to say, for instance, "You know, I've never been a fan of science fiction-- I guess I just don't get it!" or "This type of tragic story is hard for me to read, because I'm so sensitive."

Remember that you are not responsible for the work you are critiquing, or the person who chose to write it. His/her future as a writer is not contingent upon your response to the writing.

Anyway, I could go on for hours. I'll send you more thoughts, if any of this has been helpful. Obviously, your friend respects your opinion, and try to keep focused on that as a positive thing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. It being November, I would guess she is participating in NanoWrimo

(write a 50,000 word novel in a month) and wanted some feedback. At which point I would say..."Wow! Great word count for just one week in!" :hi: If not, I would find at least something to compliment. She will probably get the message when you have to struggle to say something like,"The 10th paragraph had a very nice descriptive sentence." Good luck! :hi:

[Kali]

3. ...

"The 10th paragraph had a very nice descriptive sentence." :spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[2008]

9. ...

"Great word count" was the one that got tea spit all over my screen.

[blondeatlast]

4. As a library book buyer, I can help you, I think.

We get some really poor submissions all the time. I often have to break the bad news to the hopeful authors.

Here's a bit of how I handle it:

1. Acknowledge her effort and that it's clear she's put a lot of heart into it.

2. Thank her for thinking enough of you to share that effort.

3. Applaud the self-discipline it takes to write a first novel (or?)

4. Encourage her to get an editor.

5. Offer to help her vette an agent (and here's where you can gracefully dismiss yourself from the situation). Honest agents will gently tell a prospect what they really think of the work (so that you don't have to).

It isn't easy, but the main thing is to acknowledge the effort.

[2008]

10. This might work

In fact, it's probably the only way to handle it. This is not a person I can stand to see hurt.

(By the way, do blonds really eat last?)

[blondeatlast]

26. No, AT last... nt

[Westegg]

36. Ah, see? Blondeatlast has gievn you the perfect out!

..You are dyslexic, so you can't possibly critique a manuscript.

I'm kidding. See my comments elsewhere. "Blonds eat last." I love it! Listen, if blonds ate last, they'd eat less, and I wouldn't be at the gym every goddamn morning trying to work off these unloved handles.

[begin_within]

5. Since this is one of your all-time closest friends, who you love very much,

be totally honest with them. Tell them the truth, that it bores the hell out of you, and worse yet, you see absolutely no point to any of what s/he has written, and must FORCE yourself, sentence after sentence, to plod through this crap. That is what they need to be told, and you're the person to tell them. That's what real friends are for. Anyone else in the world could tell them, "That's nice, keep working on it." Your duty as their close friend, is to tell them the unvarnished truth. It might hurt their feelings temporarily at first, but in the long run you are helping them.

[2008]

7. I considered that. It seems like the right thing to do. But there's one complication...

This person compliments everything I write. Because of that, brutal honesty seems cruel.

(edited for typo)

[begin_within]

11. What purpose would it serve to lie? The fact that they sent it to you means

that they want your opinion on it. What is the point of not telling them the truth? Just to keep from hurting their feelings or bruising their ego? What purpose does it serve to tell them that it's great stuff? Wouldn't that only lead them into a delusion that it is great, and then when they pass it on to someone else to read, what if that person tells them it's boring or terrible? Wouldn't they rather know sooner than later? They are looking for your honest opinion. I wouldn't just give a blanket statement like, "Oh, that's boring crap." I would sit down and specify which sections you liked and which you thought were superfluous, etc. Make an effort to help them improve it, rather than just dismissing it entirely. That may be what they are really asking for from you.

[2008]

12. I know. Here's what I have so far...

"i have to say that i'm sorry about the (keyword) story, but i'm having trouble getting through it. it's not holding my attention. i don't understand the point of any of it, or if there is supposed to be a point. i'm sorry"

One problem with reading this story is that it's so bad, it's actually a little depressing. When it comes to specifying which sections I like and which I think are superfluous ... well, there is nothing in it I like, not one single sentence. The entire story is superfluous.

[begin_within]

13. If I were in your position, I would just tell them that. But then, I have no tact.

[2008]

14. I remember seeing Merv Griffin doing that for Dr. Joyce Brothers...

...on a hidden camera show. He was the mark; they were setting him up to see how he would respond.

She auditioned a song-and dance routine for him which included a top hat and a cane. She sang about concepts like high self-esteem. Said she wanted to take her act on the road. It was deliberately awful.

He said, "It was terrible. It was the worst thing I've ever seen. They're going to put you on the news, just to laugh at you."

She said, "That's good, you know, I wanted to get your opinion so you could tell me what to change."

He said, "Oh, no, you can't change anything. You just have to not do it."

[begin_within]

28. Maybe you could get a tape of that show and send it to your friend.

I think the key is to not make it a reflection on them as a person. The key is to say, "this particular work is terrible," not "you are a terrible author and you should give up."

[Westegg]

37. That's what they said about "Finnegans Wake"/nt

[SoCalDemGrrl]

8. Honesty is the best policy -couched with a compliment...

I've always found that it's best to be honest, but you
don't have to be brutal. Maybe complimenting something
about her style or use of language, but you have to tell
her that the continuity was confusing to you.

If you don't eventually someone else will and she'll know you
lied anyway.

[Lethe]

18. yeah be honest but don't destroy her will to write in the future

i hate it when close friends lie to me, just to avoid being critical of something.

[struggle4progress]

15. Look up a bunch of famous authors and try to find some stories and

quotes about writing.

Thomas Wolfe, for example, apparently wrote mountains of prose but desperately needed an editor to select fractions from it to make into coherent novels. Hemingway, a minimalist, rather famously said something like "What you leave out is more important than what you put in."

Using anecdotes and quotes like these, you can give vague technical advice about the importance of a good professional editor and how hard it must be to rewrite something over and over again until it says no more than the author wants it to say.

Then, again, you could cop out with something like: "I'd rather wait for the final version."

[The Straight Story]

16. I wonder how many people have done such to me and my poems :)

Oh hey, great poems loved em (I felt like I had needles poking me in the eyes the whole time....).

Hell, some of my poems I don't even read anymore, too blah :) Boring as hell, but I tried. I keep em there because I like the good and the bad together. Secretly I think most people only read a few verses and then go 'yeah, awesome man'. Bastards :)

As far as advice - tell em how you feel but explain why you do, then suggest maybe you were just not feeling well and ask them to send it along to us and give them the link to the thread.

In the meantime, let me know what ya think of my poems....

http://www.toddhowell.com/poems/

[Bossy Monkey]

17. The graceful way out is, "I'm sure it's great, but it's just not the kind of thing

(or you can say 'genre' if it's in a recognizable genre) that I really enjoy reading." If there's anything at all that you can find to praise, do go ahead and praise it, but don't say anything you can't say sincerely.

The con artist approach would be to trot out something like, "Are you sure this is something you're PASSIONATE about? I read it and I'm just not seeing your PASSION." (Not con artist, really, but you're basically saying it sucks but putting it back on her. Anyway, it is in a sense constructive criticism, since given your description this is the only possibility other than that s/he just doesn't have any talent.)

If it's one of your all-time closest friends, and you want to keep him/her as one of your all-time closest friends, you should probably ask if s/he wants your blunt, unvarnished opinion, and if s/he says yes ask if s/he's absolutely sure. By then, s/he'll figure out that you didn't like it and will either beg off or will at least be prepared for the ol' "Don't quit your day job."

Back when I was an SOB I used to give my unalloyed unvarnished opinion on my friends' writing often. Some of them even still speak to me.:) More recently, I try to find something, anything to praise (most notoriously when I told someone that out of a 10,000 word article, I liked one word. Don't remember what it was, but it was a really excellent word.:P)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

19. Write what you feel about it; but don't send it .

Let your reply sit overnight. Tomorrow, review what you've written. Make sure your criticisms are concise. "This story is bad" is not a constructive comment. Try something like, "The plot of the story doesn't move quickly enough to captivate my interest" or "The subject is too obscure for my taste."

Also, find something positive to say about the manuscript. Maybe character development, not plot, is your friend's forte. Or perhaps his/her talent is for writing highly descriptive prose. Any little thing will help.

Don't send the letter. Give your friend a call. Ask him/her if s/he really wants your honest opinion. Explain that your overall reaction was negative; and that you'd be glad to talk about it over lunch sometime, if s/he wants to hear your specific comments.

By writing things down, you have a clear grasp of what you didn't care for and what shows promise. In getting together with him/her to talk about it face-to-face, you'll be able to take hints from your friend's body language and vocal inflection to know when it's time to say something positive, and give the negative comments a chance to stop stinging.

Hope things work out well... :toast:

[2008]

24. Unfortunately, I sent it

"i have to say that i'm sorry, but i'm confused about the (keyword) story. i'm having trouble getting through it. i mean, it's funny, but it's not holding my attention, and i think that's because i don't understand the point of it. i'm sorry i can't be more positive, but i'm just lost as to what the message is"

Even that was too kind. There was nothing funny about it, and I wasn't "lost as to what the message is" because there was no message. Just inane rambling.

In hindsight, I should have taken another's advice to completely lie.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

34. I'm sorry that your friend was offended...

It's unwise to ask for opinions when one is really seeking compliments.

This person would not be a dear friend if you didn't recognize his/her most wonderful assets. I hope you'll find many opportunities to tell him/her how you appreciate these talents, and how much you value your friendship. Your friend needs your kindness more than ever now.

[hfojvt]

20. I do not believe in just giving advice to people who beg for it

I work for my advice.

Plus your OP is putting me to sleep :boring:

I don't wanna be mean, but you want me to be honest don't you? And I figure I would want to know if I had written an OP or a reply that did not make any sense so I could make it better before I humiliated myself in front of the whole world by posting something on line that made no sense, that was totally negative and cynical and rambling and completely unfunny. Not as unfunny as the Brazilian joke. Actually more like afunny - neither funny or unfunny but just keeps going on and on as if the person writing it is Nabokov or something, or does not have a life or is so desperate for a laugh or acknowledgement of his/her existence that he/she keeps putting the sh*t in the 5 pound bag which was over-full a long, long time ago in the hopes that something in all the excess verbiage would provoke some sort of response.

[2008]

22. You're referring to what you just wrote?

This is self-parody?

[AtomicKitten]

21. bullshit and tell them it was fabulous

but point out you are no expert and advise them to seek expert advice.

I made the mistake of telling the truth to a friend once when it was sought and it was a HUGE MISTAKE. Even when they beg for the truth and you think your friendship is strong enough to handle it, don't do it.

Just my opinion based on personal experience.

Good luck.

[2008]

23. I think you're right

I responded with part bullshit and part truth, and I think I offended anyway.

Hell, I'm no editor. Maybe I should have just given a 100% bullshit answer.

[Bear down under]

25. A question

Are you yourself a professional/published writer or editor?

If you are, then the only thing you can do is to explain that you are too close a friend and too emotionally involved etc to be able to give an objective opinion on their work. Of course you were impressed by it. (Friends *always* like and and support what their friends do. That is what friends are for, though there is no need to remind him/her of that.)

If you're pressed for more, and you will be, "I could just hear your voice while I was reading" is a good non-committal but friendly thing to say, and you can praise details like "I thought it was interesting that you made your heroine blonde. So many authors these days go for redheads/brunettes/ethnic types ... " or "What an interesting location/period you have chosen for your setting!" If it is non-fiction, of course your knowledge of the subject is so woefully inadequate....

Then point the aspiring author in the direction of one of the many professional manuscript assessment services. If they come back with a terrible opinion, you are all sympathy. Then it's time to suggest maybe a creative writing course would be an enjoyable exercise. They usually are, I hear.

If you're a fellow amateur, then you must point out that while the request is flattering (and it is, you know) you are unable to give a professional opinion, you are only an amateur, it would not be fair to possibly mislead a friend with your untrained judgment etc ... Then proceed as above.

Of course you could be blunt and say what you really think, but as a published author who has been in your situation several times I warn you it will most likely be the end of the friendship. Aspiring writers (and artists and musicians) put their heart and soul into their creations, and they are only too liable to see any criticism, however well-meant, as a personal rejection...

[mulsh]

27. ask her to send the completed book

& hope to god she either finds an editor or realises how much work is involved in writing a book and abandons the project.

[swimboy]

29. How about "This isn't writing; this is typing."

I'm sorry you're in that terrible position. I'm kidding in my subject line, but I think you have to discourage her as gently as you know how.

[coolhandlulu]

30. Tell her that if you didn't love her, you'd spit her a lie and be done

with it...but you do, so (insert truth here).

[BreweryYardRat]

31. Tell her it's schlock.

You aren't doing her any favors by lying.

[RedStateShame]

32. Two words: I'm illiterate.

Be sure to mispronounce the 2nd word, though, for authenticity purposes.

[grizmaster]

33. tell them

it'll be less painful coming from you than a hundred rejection letters.

And you'll save them the time and effort wasted on completing it. But you can that if they want to pursue it they should take some writing classes and give it another go.

[Evoman]

38. Send it back to her covered in feces.

And tell her its "better now!".

Evoman