I'm skipping dead turkey day with the folks. Mom is displeased. A phone transcript of dysfunction.

[LeftyMom]

Mom: Hi honey, (blah blah blah small talk) are you coming over for thanksgiving? Your stepfather should be home unless Montana has him extradited.

Me: No Mom, I have plans, remember?

Mom: Without your family?

Me: Yeah. Remember, I have a guest.

Mom: You can bring him. I want to meet him. (Her husband) wants to see if he's good enough for you. (Note: I've met her husband three times counting the wedding. He forgets my name.)

Me: To thanksgiving?

Mom: Sure, why not?

Me: Thanksgiving with my crazy family??? Will (her deer hunting Mormon in-laws) be there?

Mom: I think so.

Me: I'm pretty sure they wouldn't get along. Thanksgiving with the enormous dead turkey and having to bring our own food because you don't have anything we can eat except celery sticks and potato chips? Is that really how you want him to meet you?

Mom: Oh, I forgot about the vegan thing. I could put some carrots on the tray. Can you eat the ranch dressing?

Me: The. vegan. thing. Mom, I've been vegan for damn near five years now. It's like forgetting that motherhood thing. And no, it has dairy in it. And he hates carrots.

Mom: I still want to see him while he's here. Wait- carrots? Who the hell doesn't li-

Me: Yeah, I know. Maybe we can go out to eat or something?

Mom: (starts naming off places with little to no vegan food that she likes)

Me: I'll call you. (No, I won't.)

[MissB]

1. I say you get her a cookbook for Christmas.

A vegan one.

[LeftyMom]

2. That's not a bad idea.

Maybe I should.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. No, I'm thinking a very serious and pointed conversation

A cookbook ain't gonna make a shit of difference until her mother decides to respect her.

Her mother clearly has control issues, self-absorption issues, and some serious maturity issues, a lack of empathy and sense of other people's emotional states, probably all stemming from a complete lack of emotional and psychological differentiation.

A conversation that might go something like "Mom, for a number of years you have failed to remember that I am a vegetarian - I don't care if you agree with it, think that it's silly, or even are disgusted with it; that's all fine - but when you treat it like it doesn't matter, it makes me feel that I don't matter to you. I need to have you either accept that I am who I am, or I need to hear from you that you do indeed refuse to accept me as I am, in which case I will leave you alone."

[LeftyMom]

7. I've giving up on gettting Mom to grow up.

It's a bit like having an immature younger sibling, only twice my age.

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. I would think so. I added more to my post.

Clearly, you must do what you must do, but her treatment of you is pissing ME off...

I had to do something similar with my mom at one point, though she wasn't as bad as yours seems to be; but to tell her, look, this is who I am - either the passive agressive bullshit and under-the-breath-comments and the constant not-so-subtle attempts to control me stops, or the relationship stops.

I'm too old - really, we're all too old - to spend any more of our life in relationships that aren't functional.

I decided that a few years ago, and, by God, I've been happier than shit ever since.

[martymar64]

4. That's alright, love

I tend to always skip out on Kill a Tree for Christ Day

[bigwillq]

5. "Thanksgiving with the enormous dead turkey"

:rofl:

I am really LOL! and people at work are looking at me.

'I have to walk away from my desk. I have th giggles. :rofl:

[Redstone]

6. s come to our place. Bring your pal. We do vegetarian stuff every year anyway

for my Uncle Joe; I'm sure we could modify that to vegan standards.

And we'd be happy to do so.

Redstone

[LeftyMom]

8. We're going to see Peggy that week, but we could definitely come out next year.

You rock, you know that? :)

[Redstone]

10. We provide whatever our guests want. You want vegan, you'll get vegan. As long as

you don't give us any dirty looks when whe carve the bird.

Redstone

[Gormy Cuss]

11. Oh poo.

Criminy, after five years it would be nice if your mother at least tried to understand what foods to offer. We have vegetarians,natural food fans, and those with sodium-restricted diets in the family. It only took a few years for everyone to get on board with it. For instance, we had two dressings, one a traditional bread stuffing made with whole grain breads and turkey stock, the other without any animal products at all. Our squash and other veggies were cooked with minimal adornment -no added salt, butter, or brown sugar.

Vegan adds a few more rules but we would have adapted. It ain't rocket science. x(

[Ptah]

12. I know you will enjoy your time with Peggy.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

:thumbsup:

[petronius]

13. I owe you a huge apology

I'm sorry to laugh at your family situation, but I didn't get past "extradited" without spitting beer all over my keyboard. (So, technically, I owe you an apology but you owe me a keyboard.)

Seriously, and it's clear that you know this, if your mom can forget 'the vegan thing' on the most food oriented holiday of the year then you should feel no obligation whatsoever to lend your presence to the disaster...

[LeftyMom]

14. Oh, It's okay, I know it's funny. I'll have to dig up my post from last thanksgiving

(when I met the deer hunting Mormon in-laws) because it's a riot. It was no fun while I was there, but looking back it's :rofl:

Crap, there's no post I can find. I must have PM'd the story. I'll keep looking and retype it if I have to.

[LeftyMom]

15. Okay, couldn't find it, so here's the story.

I went over to Mom and her very new husband (less than a month at that point) for thanksgiving. Had to bring my kid over to Mom's really non-childproofed house and bring my own food. This is a huge pain in the ass, but Mom wanted a nice family thing so I did my best.

Nobody warned me about the in-laws. They're very rural, very Mormon, very very traditional. They had no clue what to make of me. I could have toned it down a bit had I realized what they're like, but as I said, no warning. So I'm sitting down to eat my plate of wonderful thanksgiving food (my cooking rocks, but this is a rather time consuming meal I rarely make more than once or twice a year, so I was looking forward to it) and they started asking me questions about being vegan. Not just the basic "where do your get your protein" stuff, but weird questions like if I'm a Seventh Day Adventist (I guess there are a lot in their town and those are the only vegetarians they know) and if a vegan child can be healthy (an odd question to ask with leftykid in the room, the kid is huge, handsome, energetic and healthy.) Oh, and if animals have souls, which led to the religion discussion. Apparently they've never met a real live non-believer before and are probably gravely concerned for my immortal soul. At this point I'm watching the gravy congeal on my plate and wondering if I'd ever get to eat.

Then they got to telling me about their family deer hunting adventures. Mom's husband gets in on the storytelling. Then he asks about my boyfriend. Wants to see a picture, hikes the whole damn family off to the garage (where the computer desk is) to go gawk. This was funny.

"So he's a..."

"Vegan? Yeah."

But he's..."

"Yep!"

Oh, and everybody ate my pie and I only got one piece. It was fun telling them it had tofu in it though.

[petronius]

41. Great story - I can see how it's funnier after the fact, however

My Thanksgivings can get complicated as well, but it's usually pretty mundane: me against the Republicans, and my dad against some annoying relative or other...

:)

[flvegan]

16. It'd be funny if your "guest" imitated Pauly Shore EVERY time he

met/spoke with a member of your family. Man, you'd never hear the end of it...

"Hey there, LeftyMom's mom. Nice cones. Howsabout we gnosh on some fresh gRINe....daaaaaage, buddy? Cuz I'm tha WEEEEEA---ZULLLLLL!!"

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. With the gun totin' Mormons, that could have a hilarious finale!

:rofl:

[flvegan]

19. Cuz they're the

Church of Jesus Christ of Saturday Saints, buh-dy!

[LeftyMom]

21. Okay, I'm only going to say this once:

I don't think I could ever have any kind of sex with somebody who willingly sounded like that idiot. So stop.

[flvegan]

23. Quit harshing my gig, cruster.

I don't even know what the hell that means.

[LeftyMom]

18. I'm sorry dear, you really can't be more annoying than my family.

Oh, did I mention that Mom has a bad habit of checking out my boyfriends? Wear loose pants if she's around, or I'll never hear the end of any observations made. (No, I am sadly not making this up. Mom's first comment about my ex? "Nice package.")

[flvegan]

20. Wrestling singlet it is, then.

[LeftyMom]

If we go to see my family you're driving.

Because I'll be drinking. :toast: :beer:

[flvegan]

25. Cool! It'll be easier then

to convince you that bikini stuffing wrestling with your sister is a fab idea.

[LeftyMom]

26. Hey, if you can talk her into it, I'll take pics.

Damned if I know where we'd find a bikini to fit you this time of year though.

[flvegan]

28. I'll wear my singlet!

YESSSS!!

[LeftyMom]

29. Mom's going to regret asking me to bring you over, isn't she?

Check your PM, silly.

[flvegan]

30. With every fiber of her being.

[Redstone]

37. Hey, I was going to say you could avoid all that by coming to see us instead, but

damn, I'd not want to ruin your fun.

Go get 'em! (And be sure to give us a blow-by-blow report afterward.)

Redstone

[ncrainbowgrrl]

39. Middle America.... ripping the fields,...ooooh!

"You have got charisma!"

[Dukkha]

22. Never underestimate the power of a mother's denial

mine always acts like she just discovered I'm a Liberal

"Since When?" :eyes:

[youthere]

24. Leftymom...

that just sucks. I'm sorry your mom can't respect you more. FWIW, you can come to my place on Thanksgiving and have anything your darling vegan heart desires...you'll just have to teach me how to cook it:hug:

[LeftyMom]

34. Awww, thanks!

:hug:

[bullwinkle428]

27. If I missed Thanksgiving, my Mom would put me on a guilt installment plan

that I'd be paying on until eternity, but I have to give her credit...she does totally cater to my needs and preferences when I visit...I think it's the least she can do if I'm going to drive 800 miles! :evilgrin: She loves to cook, so I could completely see her going all out to make several vegan courses if I wanted them.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

31. bleech. does not sound fun

:(

hugs, yes? :hug::hug::hug:

[LeftyMom]

32. Thanks hon!

:hug:

I think we're gonna skip it and go someplace where we get to be the strangest people there. Now I just have to decide where that is.

[flvegan]

33. But she'll have a guest.

THAT might be fun.

[LeftyMom]

35. Just maybe.

At least I have somebody to laugh with me at the absurdity of it all. :loveya:

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

51. yea, just "might" be fun

:eyes:

:P

Leftymom is going to have the thanksgiving most DUers dream of

[CaliforniaPeggy]

36. My dear LeftyMom!

I cannot wait to meet the two of you!

And I'm sorry about your mother.......

But your transcript of your phone call was hilarious.......sorry! :rofl:

[begin_within]

38. Just go for dessert only! Then they can never say "You weren't here for..."

A lot of pies can be vegan if the crust is vegetable shortening. And you can just make a token appearance, then leave soon afterwards.

[mykpart]

40. Call late on Thanksgiving and cancel.

Say your guest has an attack of kidney stones from eating animal products. Then tell her you're calling from the hospital on your cell phone and you have to hang up. Hang up. Don't answer your phone. Be sure not to give her the name of the hospital.

[billyskank]

42. That sucks

If after five years she still hasn't grokked that you don't eat meat, that can only mean that she considers it completely trivial. :(

[fleabert]

43. it's kinda funny how some people live in their own reality- isn't it?

at least your sister is cool- she still is, right? Say hi for me!

[Missy Vixen]

44. At the risk of starting the flame war of all time, I have to respond to this

Lefty Mom, I can appreciate how awful it is to spend Thanksgiving with people who just don't seem to care. If I read correctly up the thread, you are going to CaliforniaPeggy's for dinner, and I hope that you all have a wonderful celebration. She's tremendous -- I know I'd love to have dinner at her house!

We have spent the past 14 years essentially being held hostage at family gatherings by a sister in law whose dietary regime changes as she sees fit. We've been through lacto-ovo vegetarianism, vegetarianism, a vegan diet, and now she's eating meat again. She does not talk to us about what it is she might want to eat. We've asked. We've tried to incorporate dishes that might make her happy. We are expected to conform to her every whim. If we don't, there's hell to pay. When we visit her home, however, we are expected to (again,) conform to her wishes. She will not countenance anyone else's preferences in her planning.

IMHO, YMMV, at least I don't have to host the Thanksgiving family gathering this year.
Julie

[Ellen Forradalom]

65. There are three things I always ask about

1. Dietary needs
2. Last name of spouse/kids
3. Preferred term for S.O.: wife, husband, partner, concubine, etc.

So many permutations these days, I always just ASK, then accommodate their wishes.

[Missy Vixen]

66. Ellen, we do the same

>I always just ASK, then accommodate their wishes.<

We enjoy having our friends over, so we've done it often. We do whatever we can to make our guests happy. At the same time, the behavior of the sister-in-law is in stark contrast to most of the guests we've entertained over the years. As an example, I'd like to present the following.

My husband's former co-worker and his wife showed up at our housewarming. We were thrilled. We didn't know that they had recently decided to become vegetarians. We asked if there was anything they'd like us to make or buy so that they might have what they'd like to eat. The wife smiled and said, "Don't worry about it. I can always find something to eat. We're happy to be here today."

This is the key. We don't go to other people's houses and demand they honor our every dietary need. If we want something other than what's being served, we bring it ourselves, or we don't go.

IMHO, YMMV.
Julie

[kick-ass-bob]

45. Damned vegans screw everything up!

I keed! I keed!!

:hide:

:P

My in-laws just decided that they were not coming to our house for T-day, without talking with us first. We'll have just gotten back from a trip and want us to go there. Umm, yeah, sure thing.

Their loss, not ours. :nopity:

[johnnie]

46. LOL, that sounds like every mom I know

I had to call my mother yesterday and deal with it, but it's ok... she's my mom. My family was the same way when I was a vegetarian, but I remember them making sure I had some stuff to eat.

I just let my mom do what she does. My sisters really have a hard time with her, but I just let it go. She can be very opinionated and sometimes she doesn't really think before she says something to other people, but that's just her and I love her, so I let it go.

[buddhamama]

47. this is reminiscent of conversations

i have had with my family. I was a vegan for a couple yrs, went back to being just a vegetarian (been a vege for a good ten yrs) and they could never understand or accept it.

it sucks. sorry. :hug:

[Bridget Burke]

48. At a big Thanksgiving feast a few years ago....

Vegan Dirty Rice was prepared for guests thus oriented. Dirty Rice usually includes chicken livers, gizzards & maybe a bit of sausage. But it's just fine with mushrooms & nuts. Of course, the creole spices really make the dish.

Other vegetarian/vegan dishes were provided or brought by other guests. Of course, a turkey was deep fried for the occasion. And hunters brought game they'd cooked themselves.

A good time was had by all.

[CanuckAmok]

49. Could you not bring your own prepared meals, with a little extra for everyone else?

Then you get to eat, and you could introduce some vegan dishes to people who have never tried them, thereby dispelling their preconceptions.

OR you could just continue to wear your self-imposed scarlet V.

[LeftyMom]

50. Every year I do.

I've come to the conclusion that people who can't be bothered to make any effort at all to feed me (I have no problem with bringing my own main dish, it's really no big deal to veganize the mashed potatoes or to make the yams with a vegan margarine instead of butter and it's wasteful to make two of everything) are not terribly interested in my company. If I have to make all of my own food, it's a bit silly to do that, take it across town and then reheat it when nobody else wants any. I can feed myself at home and visit with mom on a day when her house doesn't reek of roasted turkey corpse.

[Richardo]

52. The corpse is the best part of the turkey.

:9

[JVS]

55. yes, much better than the feathers or droppings

[asthmaticeog]

63. Oh, I dunno - the droppings can be the basis for a *lovely* bechamel.

[WilliamPitt]

53. "unless Montana has him extradited"

Do I even want to ask?

[LeftyMom]

57. Definitely not.

Actually, I don't know the details. Mom tried to make it sound like it was traffic tickets, but I'm smarter than that. ;)

[ThomCat]

54. I am glad you're doing a vegan thanksgiving on your own.

:hi:

Much less stressful! I hope it's wonderful.

I've successfully avoided dead turkey day with my family for a few years, but this year I'm going. :(

[LeftyMom]

58. I can make a little more lentil loaf if you want.

:)

[ThomCat]

60. That would be awesome,

but flying cross country is out for me for a while. :)

Can you share the recipe? I will need to cook stuff I can eat and I'm at a loss.

[LeftyMom]

68. How to have Thanksgiving a la LeftyMom (just add family drama)

http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=7685.0

Holiday Lentil Loaf

Ingredients (use vegan versions):

1 small onion
1 clove garlic
2 stalks celery
2 teaspoon sage
3 cups cooked lentils
3 cups cooked wild rice (you can use a wild rice/brown rice mix here too)
1/2 cup chopped walnuts
1/4 cup whole wheat breadcrumbs
2 tablespoon vinegar
2 egg equivalents
2 tablespoon whole wheat flour
fresh ground black pepper and sea salt

Directions:

Preheat oven to 350 F.

Chop onion and celery finely, and crush the garlic clove. Spray a fraying pan with non-stick spray, and saute the onion, garlic and celery until onion is translucent. Add the sage. Combine all ingredients in a large bowl and mix well. Spray a loaf pan with non-stick spray and fill the loaf pan with the mixture. Press down. Bake 30 minutes covered, 10 minutes uncovered. Let stand for 5-10 minutes before cutting and serving.

Gravy:

http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=6966.0

Vegan Gravy

Ingredients (use vegan versions):

8 tablespoons vegetable oil
3-6 cloves of garlic, squashed and minced
3 slices of yellow onion, chopped
8 tablespoons all-purpose flour
2 tablespoons nutritional yeast
4 tablespoons Bragg's Liquid Aminos, low sodium soy sauce or tamari sauce
2 1/2 cups water or vegetable broth (to start)
1/2 teaspoon ground sage (dry)
salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste
1/4 cup red wine or red wine vinegar
2 tablespoons balsamic vinegar
6 sliced mushrooms (optional)

Directions:

In a medium saucepan heat oil on a medium or medium-low heat. Add garlic and onion and cook until slightly tender and translucent.

Add the flour, yeast and soy (or tamari) to make a paste or roux. Be careful not to let it burn. GRADUALLY add the water, stirring constantly. With frequent stirring, bring the gravy to a boil and allow it to thicken. Add pepper, mushrooms, red wine (or red wine vinegar) and balsamic vinegar.

If the gravy is too thin (unlikely) add a small amount of cornstarch which has been dissolved in some cold water. (Dissolving the cornstarch in water first will prevent lumps.)

You can add more water to the gravy if you want a lighter gravy for certain dishes. The flavor is very strong and can easily handle the extra liquid. Its even better if you let it sit in the fridge overnight and gently reheat it. This is great over a lentil loaf, bisquits, potatoes--just about anything you would want to smother with a rich gravy! Enjoy!

Serves: Approx 4 cups

Preparation time: 15-20 minutes

[ThomCat]

69. Awesome! Thank you very much!

:hug:

[hedgehog]

56. How about Thanksgiving with people who think it's a sin to enjoy

your food? Ex. Mashed potatoes made from dried flakes because they are so much cheaper than buying real potatoes and so convenient - just add hot water. No butter because that's bad for the heart, but forget about the trans-fats in the margarine. Last year my son-in-law to be helped himself to some apple sauce. He didn't realize that that was the gravy! I'd feel bad saying this given the cook's age, but she cooed that way 30 years ago!

[datasuspect]

59. i think there ought to be a statute of limitations on parental war crimes

sometimes it takes a bigger person to forgive, sometimes the child has to be the parent.

my life got a lot easier (around age 22) when i realized the world doesn't revolve around me.

i try to look at situations and determine what i can do for others rather than expecting them to cater to me.

if you make a virtuous lifestyle choice, that's your decision, the world doesn't stop because an individual person decides they want to live their life a certain way. does this mean that other people shouldn't be aware or make some concessions? sure, it's part of being polite. if a person was to eat at my table and they had dietary restrictions/preferences i'd take it into consideration. but i wouldn't bend over backwards and change everything i was planning to do for them.

but it sounds like you don't like your family and they don't respect you, so it really isn't about veganism, turkey, what have you. if the situation just causes anxiety for everyone, you're probably better off not going.

[flvegan]

62. So a big ham for your Kosher friends?

How about some nuts to someone with allergies?

I think the original post sets forth that there's a lack of willingness to even attempt, and if someone that's made an ethical decision (not a "lifestyle choice") doesn't want to participate in a holiday that centers around the carcass of an abused* and slaughtered animal, then so be it. They should be talked/guilted the fuck into it either.


* with the understanding that many folks get their "feast animal" locally and not from a factory farm, thereby not having been treated so poorly throughout his/her life.

[datasuspect]

64. it's not all or nothing

you make concessions where its appropriate. if you know someone who is an observant jew, naturally you wouldn't feed them ham. but i wouldn't expect someone to know the intricacies of orthodox jewish dietary restrictions (although i do). as far as allergies are concerned, purposely feeding nuts to someone with peanut allergies would be criminally negligent and i don't think you can make a valid comparison with that analogy.

from what the op said in the first post, it doesn't seem the issue is menu choices, there seems to be other significant family problems. the dinner is symptomatic.

[LeftyMom]

67. No doubt. My mother has the maturity of a junior high schooler.

Still, it doesn't take Mrs Manners to realize that "Hey, come over for dinner! Bring a date! No, I'm not going to make any effort to feed either of you" is rude. (FWIW, I am allergic to dairy. Mom puts butter on everything, from the green beans to the turkey- not that I'd eat the turkey in any case. When I said there's nothing in her house to eat but celery sticks and maybe some potato chips I wasn't kidding. I'm really not about to compromise my ethics but I'd have to risk my health too, and nobody's making any effort to work around that.)

As for the food issue, as I said above, I'm perfectly willing to make most of my own food. I like cooking. I just want to see some effort made, perhaps by veganizing a few side dishes. She's had four thanksgiving dinners, four christmases and a handful of easter dinners and birthday meals to make some effort to feed and has not done so.

The local food co-op has a free sheet of vegan thanksgiving recipes, there's more recipe sites than I care to count just a google away, the library's got more vegan cookbooks than you can shake a celery stick at and of course she could do what half the planet does anyhow and ask me. That she chooses not to do any of that makes me feel unwelcome.

For what it's worth, I always offer to host and always get turned down. I just don't feel like dealing with it this year, so I'm making other plans.

[AngryAmish]

61. Why not just make yourself a ham instead of turkey?