What would possess a person to drive around without insurance?

[proud2BlibKansan]

This is my husband's truck. He had ONE payment left. ONE. Then some asshole with no insurance ran a red light into him yesterday. His truck is totalled. Now we get to start making car payments again.

And the guy who hit him went home. This happened in MO, where the insurance laws are obviously ineffective. We live in KS but used to live in MO. When we lived there, I wrote repeatedly to my state reps asking for a mandatory insurance law. They finally passed one, but it has no teeth in it. In KS, there is a mandatory large fine and you can be arrested for driving without insurance. It depends on the jurisdiction, but the fines start at $600 in KS. You also can be forced to surrender your car tags in KS when you have no insurance. So people who live in KS generally have car insurance. In MO, many don't.

I just don't get it. I wouldn't pull my car out of my driveway without insurance on it. Even when we lived in MO and there was no law mandating we have insurance, and we were poor, we had insurance. When we were in college and living on grants and loans and were poor enough to qualify for food stamps, we had insurance on our car. We went without health insurance when we were first married, but we have never gone without car insurance.

I will admit I am not doing very well. When it rains it pours. First my mom died 4 weeks ago, then a bunch of crap at my job has made it too stressful for me to even want to be there, then one of my kids had a crisis, now I have the worst cold I have had in years (I know - it's the stress) and to top off all the crap on my shit sundae, my hubby's truck gets totaled.

Anyway, help me be gracious and explain to me why anyone would drive around without insurance. I just don't get it.

[wildhorses]

1. --

:hug:

sorry you and your family are going through this.


were they poor, ignorant illegal aliens??

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. No the guy is a security guard at a bank

Perhaps he was poor but he was not illegal. He had a drivers license.

[datasuspect]

3. poverty?

kinda tough for lots of people.

it seems like 98% of the places in this country you need a car to get around.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Sorry no sympathy here

Like I said, even when we were poor enough to qualify for food stamps (And yes we were very poor - we were in college, had no kids and earned little enough that we met the criteria for food stamps. For a 2 person family, that is pretty poor), we had car insurance.

The guy who hit him had a job. He just chose to not have insurance. And in MO, that is easy to get away with.

[datasuspect]

12. when states started requiring car insurance

my parents were very poor, drove a beater, and didn't have the money to buy insurance.

my siblings had the same parents, my parents didn't do meth, weren't alcoholics, they just didn't make a lot of money. some people are just poor and cannot afford very much. this doesn't make them bad people, assholes, jerks, it just makes them POOR.

get this: the average security guard makes about $8/hour, that's about $275 per week.

this is barely enough to survive for a single person, let alone a family.

it sucks that the guy didn't have insurance, but if you are fortunate enough to have money, car insurance, and maybe a little extra buffer, wouldn't make sense to opt for uninsured motorist coverage? i think it might add about $50 to your yearly insurance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. It is mandatory where we live

There are so many uninsured motorists here that we have to carry coverage for it.

And sorry, but if your parents had hit someone, they could have been sued for everything they didn't have. That was what motivated me to pay for car insurance when we were poor. We couldn't afford to lose what little we had.

Car insurance is not that expensive. There is no reason not to have it.

[datasuspect]

20. it's mandatory in all 50 states

i hope you never have to become humble from real hardship. it might change your views. might give you some compassion for others.

being a poor college student doesn't qualify.

oh, and hitting someone and not having insurance? it's a civil matter, you couldn't really sue someone for "everything they have" and have it be enforceable through a judgment unless you live in a state that has wage garnishment, then the cap is 15% of gross monthly income, hardly qualifies for "everything."

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Being poor is not an excuse for making bad decisions

[datasuspect]

28. no, it's an excuse for simply not having enough money

to cover all your expenses. THAT is reality.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Driving is a choice

Car insurance is not an expense you need to take on in a city with public transportation.

[MadHound]

76. Would that be the Kansas City area?

Sorry, but the public transportation there is a joke. Which makes most of the city and surrounding burbs inaccessible if you don't have a car. This guy's a security guard, in Mo, making between 7-8 dollars an hour, assuming he's working full time. Let's break down his expenses. In KC, rent runs between $600(for a crappy apartment)-$1000/month. Utilities run aprox $300/month, if one is frugile. Food, $150/month, again frugality reigns. Gas for the beater car, $100/month, especially driving around metro KC, which is poorly laid out and poor designed. Total expenses, $1150/month. Now then, income, pre taxes is at best $1280/month. After taxes it will run $1050-$1150/month. See the problem? Even if one scrimps and scrapes, this person is doing good to pay for the basics. And sadly, at this level of income,they can't get much in the way of assistance. And while your insurance may not run that much, perhaps this guy's runs into a healthy tab. Perhaps he's had other accidents, perhaps he's merely a victim of that new practice, penalizing the poor for having a piss poor credit report:shrug: It quite frankly comes down to the point where he simply can't afford to throw another hundred or two onto his monthly budget.

Look, I'm sorry for what happened to you, it truly does suck. But to complain and wonder why poor working folks don't have insurance is simply speaking out of ignorance. There's a huge difference between being poor college students(where there is an entire institution that helps serve as a safety net) and being one of the working poor, where you're walking that tightrope, in a driving wind, with nothing below you but that abyss.

If it makes you feel any better, according to Missouri laws, this guy will lose his license to drive for a proscribef period of time, and without a license, without a functioning car, this guy will probably lose his job as well. Do you think this is punishment enough, or do you want fifty lashes as well:eyes: Face it, you had to tap that insurnance that you pay for, big friggin' deal, that's what insurance is for. This guy will most likely lose his car, job, and quite possibly his home, while you sit and whine in your warm and comfy house in the burbs. Oh poor you:eyes:

[huskerlaw]

114. Exactly.

And your scenario assumes he's single. The math gets even more scary if he has kids.

I am also sorry about what happened to the OP. She has every right to be upset, mad, etc. But to honestly ask why some people don't have insurance...and then to apparently not be able to understand how it's possible that the guy couldn't afford it...ridiculous.

[Lars39]

33. He may have had to make a choice between medical care

and needed meds and car insurance.

[graywarrior]

54. Not NH. Which is why I eventually filed bankruptcy after being hit by an uninsured motorist.

[philosophie_en_rose]

57. Car insurance is insanely expensive.

I have a good student, no-accident, multi-car insurance discount. I'm female and over 25. I pay a lower amount than most. But - if I did not have the resources and support that I luckily have - I could not afford it.

There are so many reasons that it is difficult to get insurance. And it doesn't matter whether anyone else is able to afford it. It is MY privilege to afford uninsured motorists coverage. If you think that car insurance is cheap, you can afford uninsured motorists coverage.

I agree that people should have insurance, but immigration status, poverty, and other reasons do exist for others. It is a risk to drive without insurance, but it is a certainty that no transportation means no job or no access to healthcare.

I sympathize with your husband. But I also have compassion for people that cannot afford the necessities.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. It isn't that expensive here

We pay a little over $100 a month for 2 cars.

[huskerlaw]

115. How is $100/month not expensive?

particularly when the guy likely makes $7/hour...if he's lucky.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

94. Not expensive?

I'm in a low risk category and don't drive much and have an old car, and even my payments could seem like a luxury to someone who was making $8 an hour.

You don't know his situation. He may have other unavoidable expenses that are more important.

The real shame in this country is that driving is practically mandatory, whether you can afford it or not. If we had the type of public transportation that most civilized countries have, including frequently running rural bus systems, there wouldn't be so many uninsured drivers on the road.

[Orsino]

19. Car insurance, like health insurance, tends to fall by the wayside.

A car is necessary every day for some commutes. Car insurance is needed only once in a blue moon. Going without can look like free money to the unscrupulous--sorta the way Republican look at education budgets.

Going without may be a choice, but in these times it can be a mighty tough choice.

[Lyric]

53. Well sympathy or no sympathy

poverty is the usual reason. We've had our insurance lapse at times before, because we had to choose between paying the electric and paying the car insurance. It's easy to rationalize it in a situation like that--no electricity is a glaringly obvious horrible thing, but no car insurance is a little sin that nobody knows about unless you're unlucky enough to make a driving mistake.

We're college students, we have a child, and we have jobs--but we still wouldn't be able to afford our car insurance in the winter months if my Mom didn't help us when things get behind. When heat bills start going up, everything else gets tighter and tighter, and sometimes it gets so tight that something has to give.

I am sorry for what happened to you, though. No matter what the reason, it sucks to get nailed by someone who's uninsured. Have you considered making an arrangement with the person to pay for the accident in increments, or with his income tax refund? Taking the initiative and offering to allow him to pay you that way will probably make him feel so relieved and grateful for your mercy that he'll be sure to keep his end of the deal. I've been in his shoes before--he's probably terrified of being sued, losing his license and/or car, and having no way to get back and forth to work. Getting your money slowly is better than not getting it at all. :)

[lildreamer316]

56. Exactly.

I posted the same thing further down. Glad to know I'm not the only one.

However, in the OP's defense, I have had ppl I know "be nice" to others who hit them before like that--and get screwed six ways to sunday. I am an optimist and a people lover, but you really gotta go with your gut in a situation like that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. It is in the hands of our insurance company now

He will have to work it out with them.

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. Some people are just raging assholes.

Shouldn't your husbands insurance cover the damage to the truck? Seems to me that that is what insurance is for. Then the insurance company can sue the asshole who hit your hubby's truck, if they feel like it.

There's a part of me that wants to say that, for the poor, the car insurance can be a cost they can't afford - and that is probably true in a number of cases, and so we should have empathy on them. But I bet that number is a small minority of the number of people who don't buy insurance. And there are those people who can't afford the insurance any more after a few drunk driving tickets, a meth-addled collision, speeding tickets, and other assholery, and so just drive around, usually drunk or drugged up, perhaps with a backseat full of children who are all siblings, but none of them share the parents, quarter panels rusting off and smoke from the burning oil billowing out of the sonofabitch like Rush's oxycontin-and-cheap-beer flatulence. And, well, I've lost my train of thought, but I share your pissed offness - there really is, except in very rare cases, no reason for people to drive without insurance.

[datasuspect]

6. it would probably be better if we rounded them up and sterilized them

those pesky poor people!

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. I would rather we enact policies to bring them out of poverty,

but whatever floats yer boat. :P

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. They shouldn't be driving

[datasuspect]

13. so what do you propose for people in that predicament

who aren't well served by a realistic public transportation infrastructure?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. In this city, there is a bus system

I know plenty of people who don't drive because they can't afford to own a car. They take the bus. This guy works downtown and that is on the bus route. If he couldn't afford insurance, he should have taken the bus to work.

[datasuspect]

27. how can you know every detail of this guy's lifestyle and his logistical requirements?

my god, the arrogance and presumption in your statements is overwhelming.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. We know where he works

cause the cops asked him. It is downtown, which is on every bus route in this city. So he should have chosen to take the bus to work if he cannot afford car insurance.

[ikojo]

44. You know where he works, but where does

Mr Security Guard LIVE? How far must he travel to get to that high paying security guard job in downtown KC? I suspect he doesn't live in Lee's Summit MO or Overland Park KS that's for sure. If the bus system in KC is anything like St Louis then it is hardly adequate if Mr Security Guard lives in the hinterlands.

Insurance IS mandatory in MO, but about the only way the cops find out you don't have insurance is by pulling you over and asking for the card. Also when you go register your vehicle proof of insurance is required. I suppose, of course someone could make one payment just to have insurance in force when registering a vehicle but that's a lot of bother. I don't know if there is a central databank that states could access to verify proof of insurance once or twice a year or whether they'd even like to direct resources in that direction.

A bicylist in St Louis MO was hit in May 2005 while biking to a religious service at a local synagogue. A truck driven by a guy on a suspended license hit and killed him. This guy has yet to be charged with vehicular homicide. I don't think he had insurance either.

[MadHound]

78. In the security guard business, it is required that they have a car

Being as that their actual job site, where they do their work for the night, is in a multitude of different places, depending upon the night, and it is generally worked at night, when the buses don't run.

[pitohui]

104. that is simply not true

i knew a security guard who worked, for years, without owning a car, and he had a security clearance because his work was on a military base

somehow he found a way to get to work w.out driving w.out insurance, altho admittedly he did freeload on friends a lot

[huskerlaw]

116. And exactly what fabulous public transportation system

have you all been hiding in Missoui?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

80. Oh yeah, that's the same.

:eyes:
Liability insurance is relatively inexpensive. There are insurance laws for a reason. Being poor is not a get out of jail free card. I do not feel sorry for the guy.
Duckie

[datasuspect]

82. have you ever had to endure significant hardship in your lifetime?

i like what you post, so i won't be a jerk.

many times, it is pretty easy to make snap judgments about people without knowing the particulars of their situation.

it isn't nearly always cut and dried. poverty is not an excuse, it is a valid reason for many people. when you simply do not have the money, you cannot pay for things that you need.

the tiniest amount of compassion goes the longest way.

you said, "There are insurance laws for a reason."

if you have a legalistic perception of the universe, i can see where you are coming from. i have a humanistic perception of the universe, and realize that simply because something is a law, it doesn't make it right (and i'm not saying insurance laws are wrong, just saying that sometimes many laws are often unjust and appealing to authority (from a legal standpoint) is often not valid. remember "colored" and "white" fountains? that was the law in many places for quite some time, so were laws against miscegenation). people come first.

i sincerely hope that you never have profound hardship in your life.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

85. Yes, I grew up poor...

But we always had car insurance and food on the table, although it was sometimes put there by food stamps and welfare. And insurance laws and Jim Crowe laws are not comparable, and I'm offended that you would liken me to a racist because I feel that insurance laws should be enforced.
Duckie

[datasuspect]

86. there is no need to be offended

because i did not accuse, liken you to a racist.

i was making an argument based on your "appeal to authority" and simply stating that just because something is a law, doesn't often mean much.

i was trying to explicate the difference between holding a legalistic and humanistic concept of things.

sorry if i wasn't clear enough, i thought i had put in adequate qualifiers.

i grew up dirt poor too, and sometimes we didn't eat.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Yes we are hoping his insurance will be adequate

And I am assuming it will. He had full coverage. But that doesn't get him a paid off vehicle. We now have to start all over again making car payments.

[datasuspect]

14. that's where "gap" coverage comes in

these costs are nominal compared to the replacement cost of a vehicle.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. My car was totalled last year and gap coverage saved my butt

I wouldn't dream of not having it. But hubby had only one payment left, so gap coverage makes little difference.

[datasuspect]

22. so you get the wholesale value of the vehicle

depends on the insurer though. some will outright replace the vehicle.

what kind of car is it? depending on the vehicle type, the age, mileage, you might end up with a sizable down payment.

on edit, i see it is a late model toyota truck. those retain value very well.

you should come out good on this. take the money and get a real truck. like a chevrolet.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. And another couple years of car payments

we weren't anticipating. I am getting ready to retire. This couldn't have happened at a worse time.

[datasuspect]

29. what year is the vehicle?

say it is a 2001, wholesale value is around between $7,000 to $10,000 (this is a rough estimate).

if you got between $6,500 to $8,000, you'd still come out good.

hard to say though, depends on your insurer and whether they will give you retail value for the vehicle or enough to purchase a used one on the secondary market.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. It was either a 1999 or 2000 I think

[Zomby Woof]

113. No offense, but...

The term "full coverage" is a peeve of mine, because when I worked in the industry, LOTS of people told me they had "full coverage", but when I looked at their policies on the screen, they did not even come close. They were alarmed to find out they didn't have Med Pay, or even Collision. It's one thing when a person doesn't actually read their policy, but when their agent doesn't explain it to them, or misleads the person into thinking they have "full coverage", it leads to headaches with the adjusters who can only pay settlements based on available coverages.

Besides, even if a person had coverage in EVERY available area, there are variations in the AMOUNTS of coverage. Some people get only 5,000/10,000/10,000 for BIPD and UM, and others get 250,000/500,000/500,000 for it. Now THAT's some "full coverage", once you throw in 10,000 for Med Pay, a UM Collision Deductible Waiver, a $50/Day Car Rental rider, and $100 deductibles for Collision and Comprehensive. Don't forget to buy an umbrella policy which covers you for a total of 1 million in case of a lawsuit.

"Full coverage" isn't what it seems sometimes. :-)

[Zomby Woof]

111. Only if the policy has UM coverage

If a person does not have Uninsured Motorist coverage (UM), then they will have to use their Collision coverage, which includes a deductible, to pay for auto body damages when the uninsured is at fault.

Even then, a person with UM coverage needs a rider called a "UM Collision Deductible Waiver" to get out of paying the deductible even when they are afforded UM coverage. Mostly, the UM coverage is handy to pay for Bodily Injury claims.

I was a claims adjuster for auto accidents once (a job truly from the bowels of hell), and one of my jobs was establishing liability. There are TONS of uninsured people in southern CA, and most of the time the reasons they offer are "I don't believe in insurance", or "Insurance companies are just a rip-off", etc. Judging by their occupations (which I request when obtaining a statement), they CAN afford a policy, but choose NOT to. They think accidents happen to other people. CA requires liability insurance, with a minimum of $5,000 for Bodily Injury (BI) coverage, $10,000 for auto Property Damage (PD) coverage. Even the most expensive insurers rarely charge more than $30.00 a month for this minimal coverage. When a person is rejected by insurers for coverage, CA forces an insurance company to take them in as an 'assigned risk'. These are usually the people with alcohol or substance abuse problems, or just chronically shitty drivers. In any event, very very few people do NOT have auto insurance in CA based on poverty. Hell, I took a statement from an undocumented immigrant woman who worked nights in a meat-packing sweatshop, and SHE had insurance.

So I do feel pity for the poor who can truly not even afford the $30.00 a month, drive a beater car, and work a shit job.

But fuck the losers WITH decent cars, jobs, and money who choose to remain uninsured in violation of the law, and then cause accidents without a shred of remorse. I had experienced this firsthand too many times in that job.

[alarimer]

7. People who drive without insurance belong in jail

I think that fines or losing licenses is not enough, since as long as they have access to a car, they will drive anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. In KS, they take the tags off your car

[MadHound]

79. Yes, Yes! Let's imprison those pesky poor!

They don't make enough money to keep a roof over their head, food in their belly, the lights on, pay taxes, have some miniscule health plan, buy the needed gas to get around in a big city with crappy public transport, and thus they can't afford to pay for auto insurance! I agree with you, jail the poor, better yet, flog them!:sarcasm:

Damn, the empathy for the poor around here is thick enough to cut with a knife:sarcasm::eyes:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

81. So, in your view...

Being poor allows them to break laws and put others at risk just because they don't make much money? Liability insurance is relatively inexpensive. Maybe he should get a second job if he can't afford the car insurance or maybe he shouldn't drive. Being poor is not an excuse to break the law. That's like saying that the kid in the ghetto shouldn't go to jail after he stole his neighbor's TV or car because he was poor. It's a ridiculous argument.
Duckie

[buddhamama]

84. Not all States have insurance laws

it is not required unless you are financing your vehicle, so not having insurance wouldn't make them a criminal.

a better analogy than the one you gave is should the poor kid go to jail for stealing food.
food is a necessity to survival. in some states, insurance is a requirement to drive a car.

[datasuspect]

88. in those instances

you can be severely penalized in the event of a conviction or accident if you don't have it: usually revocation or suspension of your driver license. so it's like an "after the fact" requirement.

[MadHound]

89. No, being poor doesn't *allow* them to break the laws

However when you are truly poor, an experience I've lived through, breaking the law is almost required at times. This guy is making 7-8 bucks an hour. After paying for the basics(and remember, in these days post welfare reform, he will indeed have to pay for everything) rent, utilities, food, gas, this fellow is probably doing real good not to be running into the red. Sure, liability is relatively cheap, but even a bill of 100-200 a month is simply undoable. So what do you do? Go without food for the month, or not pay for liablity and hope you don't get into an accident. Frankly, having been in this guys shoes, I would forego the insurance.

And sure, this guy could get a second job, but do we really know his situation? He could be a single parent, taking care of his child during the day. He could be trying to climb his way out of poverty and is attending classes during the day. We really don't know. But we can't automatically assume that this guy is some sort of slacker, choosing not to work sixty plus hours a week out of laziness(how dare this guy not slave away for the man, to pay the man:eyes:)

And frankly, suggesting that this guy not drive, especially in KC, is ludicrous. Contrary to her rosy glassed view, KC's public transportation system is, well, severely lacking. Besides, most security jobs are worked at night, when public transportation doesn't run.

It simply amazes me how quick so many people around here are howling for this guy's head, all for the simple underlying crime of being one of the working poor, who makes shit wages, with none of the benefits that the poor used to be able to recieve. Geez, no wonder it was a Democratic administration that pushed through the welfare "reform" bill, apparently they were just listening to their heartless constituency. So much for the Democratic party being the party of caring and sympathy for the poorest among us.

[Common Sense Party]

96. And we shouldn't judge drunk drivers, either.

We might hurt their feelings.

I guess anyone offended that uninsured motorists or irresponsible drunks might pose a danger to responsible people on the road is just a fascist.

[huskerlaw]

117. That's just ridiculous

All MadHound was saying it that we don't know this guy's situation and it would probably do us well to quit judging him. Given his job, it's quite possible that he is choosing between food and insurance.

There is no similar analogy to a drunk driver. That's a choice. Being poor often is not.

[ghostsofgiants]

120. Nevermind the fact...

That not having insurance doesn't exactly have the same effect on one's ability to drive as being drunk.

[ghostsofgiants]

119. What exactly do drunk drivers have to do with this?

[Pithlet]

90. Much better for them to stop driving, and lose their job.

And while we're at it, bring back debtor prisons and orphanages! Yeehaw. Lets make being poor a crime.

I feel for the OP. I think people who forgo paying insurance to save a buck are idiots who deserve what they get, and if that's what the guy was doing, I have no sympathy, and I don't blame the OP one bit for feeling the way he does. But, man. Some of the replies in this thread sound like they come straight out of Free Republic. Some of you need to grow some empathy stat, before karma kicks your ass. Seriously.

[grasswire]

99. oh, good

Let's pay $30,000 a year in our tax dollars to lock up ONE uninsured motorist. That's what it costs.

Does that make any kind of sense at all???????

[Omphaloskepsis]

15. Am I reading this right???

You can drive without insurance? Legally? If your answer is yes let me say, HOLY SHIT. WTF?

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Legally no

But the penalty is a joke.

[Omphaloskepsis]

30. Thanks for the clarification...

Good luck..

[Nikia]

87. I believe that you can in Wisconsin

A friend once said to me, in Wisconsin it is not illegal to drive without insurance only to get in an accident without insurance.
My husband handles most of the stuff with the car insurance and registrations but I do know that they don't ask you for proof of insurance if you are pulled over by law enforcement like they do in Ohio, where I was raised.

[mdmc]

24. some folks have other priorities

Some folks are too busy paying medical bills, trying to buy food, or getting high; paying for auto insurance isn't their priority.

I hope things start going better for you and your family soon.

I know it doesn't help, but things have been going real well for me. I recently got a new girlfriend, the election went well (nationally, nothing really good locally, but it is still the best election result in my lifetime), I got set up with consistent overtime at work, got a reliable (and insured :D ) car, and my own studio. I also got to see Arlo Guthrie and David Sedaris recently. Good times.

Hang in there; The sun will shine in your backyard someday. March winds will blow all your troubles away.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. March is still 4 months away

But thanks for the upbeat thoughts.

[mdmc]

32. those winds blow throughout the year

hopefully you will feel them soon.

Peace and low stress

[flvegan]

31. First, I assume your husband is okay. If the insurance is the worst part of this,

then, well, suck as it does, it's better than it COULD be.

*pushes positive, silver-lining aside*

That said, some people don't have the money for insurance. Now, if they don't, then driving should be out of the question. Here in Florida, you have to carry basic property damage/personal injury insurance, and it's not very expensive. If you don't, they suspend your license and take your tags.

For this very reason that you've experienced, I find it necessary to carry uninsured/underinsured coverage. In case they don't have enough/any, and are at fault, I'm covered. Sure, it sucks to have to pay to insure their stupidity, but that doesn't change the need to do so.

I hope this works out the best for you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Thanks fivegan

I am hoping it works out all right.

[LeftyMom]

34. They're broke?

They're undocumented and can't get a policy?
They drive a beater and a year's coverage costs more than replacing their car would?

We live in a society where there are very few places where one can get a job without driving, and a great many jobs that won't allow a person to afford food, shelter and insurance. When faced with the choice of which to skip, it's hardly a choice at all. Skip the first two and you will suffer. Skip the third and you might and might not.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. He is not undocumented

He had a drivers license and you can't get one here if you are not a citizen. And as I have said, he works downtown. As bad as public transportation is in this town, there are plenty of bus routes that go downtown. I know plenty of people who work downtown just so they can ride a bus to work. He had choices, and he chose to drive without insurance.

[LeftyMom]

43. I realize you're not in a position to be sympathetic, but I think you're oversimplifying.

Sure, there's a bus that goes downtown. Does it leave from where he lives? Does it get him to that area in a reasonable time and run on time reliably? (Eventually bosses get tired of people running late because their bus is running behind.) Can he also get to the grocery store, get his kids from school and make the occasional social call using that bus system as well? Are there enough hours in the day? If he wanted to work extra hours and get ahead, could he get home on the bus? What about Sunday? Half the lines here don't run at all on the weekend, and most of the rest run once an hour, so getting anywhere without a car is difficult on Saturdays and near impossible on Sundays.

I've had to rely on public transportation for most of my adult life, and I think you're underestimating how very limiting it is in most places. (See end of post.) It is a tremendous eater of time compared to driving in most places, and often very limiting in terms of where one can go and at what times one can go there. So just because the bus system is there, it doesn't really mean that many people can get by without a car.

Sure, maybe he was being irresponsible for no good reason, but there's also a good probability that he took a look at the entirety of his situation (which he knows and you do not) and did the best he could.

Addendum: what I'm saying about public transit and time explained

It takes twenty minutes to drive from my house to the airport. Bus? at least 90 minutes and three transfers.
To my job? By car, ten minutes. Bus? Doesn't even run there.
To LeftyKid's Dad's house? By car, 15 minutes. By bus? About an hour, three transfers, and then a ten minute walk on a busy street with no sidewalk from the nearest stop.
To the grocery store? By car, ten minutes. By bus, 45.
And that's after the county ran a light rail extension to my area, it used to take a lot longer to get anyplace. My first job was a 15 minute walk to the bus stop and a little over an hour on the bus away. By car, I could have been there in the time it took to walk up and catch the bus.

[billyskank]

102. Bull. Driving is not a human right.

Whether your car is a junker or not is irrelevant. In my country driving without third party insurance is an offence. You can skip the insurance covering your own losses if you want, but you can't skip insuring against someone else's losses because of your own dumb ass.

[nini]

39. that's why everyone needs uninsured motorist on their policies

because reality is there a people who can't afford it or just don't care and take the risk and drive without it.



I hope your husband is ok at least.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. The air bag saved him from getting hurt

Yes, I am grateful for that.

[carlydenise]

42. Thank goodness I had collision

My kid has a pretty nice car. Her car got hit a while back by another kid who was driving her parent's car, who......guess what.......was not insured. We had just put liability only on her car, because there was NO WAY we could afford full coverage with her as a driver of this car, something told me that I had better put some collision coverage on it, thank goodness I did. Only silver lining is now I don't have to go after the other kids' parents for payment of damages, the insurance is supposed to do it for me, I hope they get it done, to get it fixed is like 2,000.00

[evlbstrd]

45. Aaww, crap.

I hope he's OK.
evlspwn has had her license suspended because she can't afford insurance (too many points on her DL). Her premiums are outrageous and I can't help her out. Her car is parked until she can get it.
As for bus service, there was no way I could bus to my previous job in the burbs from the city. The Metro just didn't sync with the suburban service, and the suburban service hours and routes seemed to serve only the major shopping malls. Believe me, I tried. And, given the late hours I get stuck with sometimes, a car was absolutely necessary.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. This guy worked downtown

That's the one place every bus route in this town goes. He also ran a red light. You'd think he would be more careful since he has no insurance.

[REP]

100. You've Obviously Never Taken The Metro - It's Going Nowhere Fast

Yes, it goes downtown. It doesn't always pick up where people actually live, and once you get on the damn thing, it doesn't always take you to where you need to go without taking another two or three buses. Once you get downtown, it may not run your route home (some lines stop running after 6 or 10 pm or midnight, weekends or holidays). The KCATA is cumbersome, unreliable and inconvenient. I know, because I relied on it for most of the time I lived there (ie, most of my life).

And for Kansans having insurance, excuse me while I laugh my ass off. You live in Johnson County, right? Drive over into Wyandotte County someday, sweetie - some drivers in the poorest county in KS are UNinsured. I'm surprised the guy who hit you didn't have WY plates - especially since he ran a red light, which is hobby with many WY-plated vehicles.

It's entirely possible you were hit by an asshat. It's also possible you were hit by someone who could not afford the insurance, especially if he lives in a red-lined zip-code (say, east of Troost, for one example).

And I do have to ask but how did your finance company allow you to carry insurance that did not cover the full replacement value of the car? Was this a used vehicle you were financing? I am unaware of financing on new vehicles that allows below-replacement coverage.

[pitohui]

106. slobs are slobs, lib

there are a lot of people who live in a dream world participating in this thread

slobs who don't buy insurance but who are happy to pay costly downtown parking fees just for the ego boost of driving their own vehicle get little sympathy from me

doesn't surprise me a bit that a slob like that would run a red light

my heart goes out to you and your husband

i'm glad these folks have cheap UM insurance, in my area, it's prohibitively costly and for what? they don't give you enough on your totaled vehicle to make you whole anyway :-(

[Deja Q]

46. Affordability or greed.

There's a lot about people I don't understand. Why they won't pay insurance (which is mandatory in some states, like mine, and it doesn't stop people from being assholes anyway...) or why they don't bother to check the brake lights - some fuckin' punk didn't have any functioning lights and I nearly hit him. Fortunately he turned into the bar's parking lot just in time...

[skygazer]

47. I'm sorry your life has taken so many tough turns

And I understand your anger and frustration. It may very well be merited - this guy may just be a jerk. But he may not be. As many have pointed out, he may be poor, he may not be able to take mass transit, there may be many reasons why he doesn't have insurance and just because you know where he works and that he has a job doesn't mean you know everything about him.

You have never gone without car insurance. That's good for you but you can't measure everyone off yourself. You say "help me be gracious." Well, several people on this thread have tried to do just that, pointing out how difficult it is for some people to get by - your response is "they shouldn't drive."

That's not gracious.

If you want to vent, this is a good place for it. But don't ask a question, request help in understanding and then reject every reasonable statement that's made to that end. I DO understand how angry and frustrated you are. But I also understand how difficult it is to live in this country when you have next to nothing.

And yes, I've driven without insurance. Fortunately for me (and anyone else) I never had an accident. It may have been wrong but sometimes you're between a rock and a hard place. That's life. Complex.

[Kali]

51. Good post.

sometimes when we are at a low point or suffering in our own lives it is hard to see that someone else might be in a worse position.

(and sometimes even when we KNOW there are others suffering way beyond what we ever could or will, we still need to vent about our problems!)

[datasuspect]

83. best post on this thread.

[Whoa_Nelly]

48. If the uninsured is a homeowner

Your insurance company can go back on his homeowner's insurance and/or his property.

Sorry you all are going through this.

[bleedingheart]

49. sue him....he will wish he had insurance

People who purposely drive without insurance are assholes.

I knew a guy who had plates from a different state that didn't require insurance and he drove around Pennsylvania where it is against the law to drive without it...

He hit someone and voila...it was all over...he got his ass in a sling he is probably still trying to get out of...

[MadHound]

77. He's a security guard, getting paid jack or shit, not both though

Good luck getting a damn dime out of him. In fact, while the OP whines in her warm and comfy home, the guy who ran into her probably suffered a major, life altering event, one that is for the worse. He doesn't have a car, won't have a driver's license even if he does have a car, which in KC, where I suspect this takes place, means he has to deal with a shitty public transportation system that won't allow him to perform his job, which means he'll probably lose his job, home, etc. All of this while having to pay back a multi-thousand dollar fine.

Sure, go ahead, sue him:eyes:

[idgiehkt]

50. I am so sorry about this.

I know how you must feel, it must be incredibly frustrating. Come Wedsnesday I probably won't have a car either, because my stupid engine light won't turn off and it won't pass inspection. I've had this car paid off for about 5 or 6 years and planned to drived it into the ground. It's a factory defect with my car and the engine light, lots of people with this make and model have this problem but no one knows how to fix it. I can't ride my bike around here because the rednecks are assholes and try to run me over, so I'll be walking. I'm not really close to much. I don't know how I'm supposed to save up to buy a new car with no transportation to a job where I can earn money to do so, but the state of NC doesn't give a fuck. Three people have offered to help me with this and then one by one at the 11th hour they flaked; I'd have been better off without the offers of help because I could have used the time differently. I'm feeling sort of the same level of frustration that you are, I guess is what I'm trying to say. I hope it works out and it gets better soon. I'm not making payments this time, or not big ones. I want an old toyota or honda, even if it has over 100k miles on it, I don't care. I want to move back to Asheville where I could walk anywhere I needed to if my car broke down. Here, it's not the best section of town and I will be a might nervous...just such a crock, because I know there is nothing wrong with my car, but no mechanics can fix it.

[distantearlywarning]

52. True story.

I lived in a high cost of living area. I made minimum wage. I didn't want to live there, but it was the town I grew up in, and minimum wage was the only thing I could get for a while after high school. I couldn't save any money to move away for years, so I had to make do.

I made about $1000 a month after taxes. My rent was $600 (lowest rent in town - I lived in a shack). That left $400 a month for utilities, food, clothing, health care, etc. (all the things necessary to live).

There was no public transportation in my area. Literally, none. My work was 6 miles from my house (again, didn't want to do that, but had to take the cheapest housing I could get). Car insurance in that state was twice what it is in other states, because of all of the uninsured motorists causing accidents (a vicious cycle), making it about $150 a month for my age group at the time.

So I owned a little beater car, and I drove for years with no insurance. It was either that or be without heat and/or food. I decided to take the risk of driving uninsured rather than starve. I wasn't trying to be irresponsible and I didn't want to be an uninsured driver, I just had very few choices, and they were all bad.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who was (is) in a situation like that one.

That being said, I'm sorry that you are experiencing the other side of it.

If we want to solve this problem as a society, we might want to start by addressing why it is that certain people in this country can't buy necessities when they are willing to work hard 40+ hours a week. I don't know that raising minimum wage is the answer, but affordable housing options in some cities might be a good start. If I didn't have to pay 60% of my monthly income in rent, perhaps I could have afforded to buy car insurance.

But blaming people who can't afford insurance isn't that helpful (although it might make you feel better right now).

[lizziegrace]

66. Thank you

the driver who hit the truck may be in a similar situation, or he could just be pushing the limits. Until that's known, passing judgement just makes the victim feel better.

[lildreamer316]

55. Putting food on the table and heating the house.

Yes, I did qualify for food stamps, but they want me to try to find a job. Husband works all week, I do not have money for a babysitter and my family (extended,both my parents are dead, I'm an only child) lives over 2 hours away.
We have one two-seater car that I cannot put my 2-year old in, legally or no. Someone just broke into that one the other night and broke of the winshield wiper arm off of the steering colum. We can't drive it in the rain now. The part to replace it costs $150.
Because I could not afford collision, my other car looks like yours, since husband hit someone that pulled out in front of him on a highway in April. It sits in our driveway wrecked.
I have right now $80 to our name.
My insurance costs $285 for basic.
I am pushing off bill collectors till next week, hoping husband has a good night at work.
We drive as little as possible, but the only jobs he could find are in the next city over. He drives late at night when there are not other people around, and is as careful as he can be. I hitch rides to the store with some of my neighbors when I can so I don't have to drive the 5 blocks down, and stay at home otherwise. ALL the time.
We have no credit cards, never have.
No car payments.
No house payments.
No drug habits.

And I still can't make ends meet.
The reason we have internet access is because it is integral to his job.

He had a good paying job earlier this year,but with the loss of our family car, everything has fallen apart, and he lost his job, because it was in a city 1 1/2 hours south.

I am getting ready to pawn some of my late mother's jewelry so that we can pay some bills. There's no guarantee that it will give us enough to pay that, but we will see.

As soon as I can possibly take care of it, it will be done. But I'll be dammed if my son is going to starve first.

Sorry for your accident. Usually the state will go after those people with a vengeance. I hope you can get some kind of something out of it.


That's why.

[Robeson]

98. Yep. Sometimes, reality enters the equation.

[ruiner4u]

61. Where are all the smoking nazi's?

So many people on this thread are apologetic to the causes of not paying car insurance..can't afford, medical bills, rent, etc...

Just so you know, when you drive your car you are piloting a half ton death machine. any little distraction can cause you to slam into some innocent person who is minding their own business. they could end up in physical and financial pain.

Ive been flamed out the ass cause I smoke, but as I light up, I would NEVER drive without car insurance.

[IdaBriggs]

62. "Other Priorities" usually meaning Super Irresponsibility w/ a big heaping

of "well, we won't get caught."

I was one of the guilty ones in my late teens. I didn't pay my bills on a timely basis (sometimes due to finances, and sometimes due to not making the time to actually mail the drattable things out), and I learned: if you don't pay the electric bill, they shut off your electricity; if you don't pay your gas bill, they shut off your heat; if you don't pay your rent, you get eviction notices; if you don't pay your phone bill, they turn it off; etc. It was *AMAZING* how quickly I learned to "pay" my bills timely! :)

Unfortunately, if you don't pay your car insurance, and you don't get caught, nothing "bad" happens unless you screw someone else over by getting into a car accident. I was lucky, in that I never screwed anyone else up, and I had a great insurance agent whose office staff worked with me to "train me" to pay it on time. (My biggest issue to this day is actually MAILING the bills! Electronic bill pay saved this computer geek's life!)

My husband and I recently "sold" a car to a friend. She and her husband were suffering with ongoing self inflicted financial problems, and she needed a car to get a job (because he was driving their other one). Anyway, we loaned her $300 to make the vehicle legal / put new brakes on it, and charged her a thousand for a car worth probably about half again as much. Our contract required her to make $100 a month payments, and keep it insured. (Did I mention that I know her to be an irresponsible person who has driven without insurance in the past?)

Here was the "shocker" -- in six months, she made ONE payment on time (which I allowed her to do some household labor to cover half of), asked for three extensions, never became current, and when confronted about the situation as she was asking for yet ANOTHER extension (which I was completely willing to give her, along with a reduction in the amount to $50 a month on the condition she provide proof of insurance) "disappeared" for about two weeks. I got pissed, and tracked her down. (Did I mention we've been friends for twenty years?)

To my non-shock, she'd been driving it without insurance for several months at this point. Their other vehicle had died, and her husband (the guy who fell asleep behind the wheel last year) didn't know it was uninsured. I was fully prepared to repo the vehicle, but my very sweet, very wonderful husband (who had predicted the entire sequence of events when I first came up with the "sell it to Karen" plan), graciously decided we should just give it to her because the friendship was worth more than the thousand dollars she still owed.

I haven't spoken to her since she called me from the bus stop two weeks ago. It was freezing cold outside, her loser of a husband had the car, and her roommate had been unable to pick her up as planned. My sympathy level was Zero -- we gave HER a car, and here she was, without. (Let me assure you that if her husband had been the one waiting at the bus stop in the cold for more than five minutes, the household transportation system would have been fixed immediately.)

I'm pretty angry with her; we were generous with her, and frankly, nothing in her life is actually going to change. Within a few more months this car will die due to them not maintaining it appropriately, and they will be back in the same position all over again. Her best hope is losing the extra 300 pound weight named "Brian" she's been carrying around for the last twenty years, but since he's a lazy, abusive son of a bitch, what are the odds she'll actually dump his loser butt? Hmmm. Let me think: ZERO.

So, thanks for listening to my little side rant on the reality of dealing with idiots, and let me answer your question one more time:

Why do people drive without insurance? Sometimes because they are desperate, and sometimes because they are IDIOTS.

[lizziegrace]

63. This baffles me

Based on the responses, it would appear that *all* people who drive without insurance are assumed to be those who live outside the law - common criminals? The last time my car insurance drafted, I had $4 left in the bank. No money for fuel, no way to drive that insured car to work. Car insurance was the next ont he list to be cancelled if I didn't find a higher paying job soon.

I'm sorry that the truck was hit. I'm sorry the driver didn't have insurance and does have a job. I had a job too when I had $4 left. Unless you've lived in someone's situation, please don't pass judgement on motive.

Perhaps he intended to live outside the law. But maybe not.

That's why I carry uninsured coverage. That's why mine paid when I was hit a few years ago by an uninsured driver. I chalked it up to "shit happens" and life isn't fair.

[ruiner4u]

64. Well if they drive in a state that requires insurance.....

And don't have it, then yes "it would appear that *all* people who drive without insurance are assumed to be those who live outside the law - common criminals"

Thanks for proving the point...

[lizziegrace]

65. People make choices

out of financial desperation at times. Have you ever had to decide to eat, buy meds, heat your house *or* insure your car? If you've been there and still think of me or anyone who's had to make those choices a criminal, then so be it. If not, please don't judge me or anyone else.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lizziegrace]

68. I have never cruicified you as a smoker

and I'd appreciate you not crucifying me. One bad asthma attack and I'm dead. I live in fear of not waking up in time to call a squad. I cannot afford the $1000/month in meds to keep me breathing, so I'm living on steroids because they're cheap. And yes, I PAY my car insurance. So if you're in Ohio and I hit your car by accident, there's no need to worry. I have insurance.

And don't call me "Lady".

[ruiner4u]

70. I am in ohio, and as long as you pay your car insurance

i wont blow smoke in your direction...

[datasuspect]

69. that kind of inflexibility and complete lack of compassion,

as betrayed by your own words, is completely sickening.

[ruiner4u]

71. Sickening?

Your earlier posts have been giving excuses for a group of people who dont pay car insurance.. That is sickening... There are many cut rate agencies that could give at least a modicum of coverage to people so they wont be a hazard on the road...


Honestly, no more excuses...

[datasuspect]

72. blah

er uh, sure, okay.

let's hope you never get knocked off your judgmental high horse.

i don't think you could handle it.

or maybe that's what people like you need.

on edit: there is absolutely no way you can know the particulars of any person's situation. what qualifies you to make broad based pronouncements (you've moved beyond the realm of assumptions, which i could give you more credit for) about the overwhelming number of people who drive without insurance?

[ruiner4u]

73. Straight to ignore..

you offer nothing.. it would be better to debate a sponge then someone who just says "Blah"

[datasuspect]

75. i'd rather offer nothing

than the vileness you are vomitting.

[Hangingon]

93. Choices are tough

but if your state reqires insurance and you don't have it and drive, you are a criminal. Sad but hard fact. As an aside, I would not be surprised if the truck gets shade tree repairs and ends up being driven to Mexico - without insurance. A small pickup pulling another headed to the border is a pretty common sight here.

[sweetheart]

74. Sounds like you were lucky

Nobody was hurt, and if somebody was, you would wish you had your problems today.

Car insurance is a luxury if you can't afford it. I drove without it for years,
but never caused an accident during that time, driving super extra careful as the
price for driving without coverage. Sorry you nearly lost a loved one and a truck,
happy your loved one is safe and your truck is covered.

[Pithlet]

91. I'm sorry.

I do understand why some people end up driving without insurance. But, I also feel for your situation. It really sucks. I hope this works out in the best possible way that it can for you :hug:

[FtWayneBlue]

92. I'm sorry things are going so badly for you,

and I hope better days are coming your way.

Here I was feeling blue because I couldn't get away to go to the SOA protest in GA. My wife's van is getting close to the 200k mile mark and is running like crap so I am driving it until I can figure out what the problem is or we can pony up for something else.

Hey, at least we gave the Rs, a thumpin' huh?

Peace Soon.

[hfojvt]

95. it wasn't mandatory in Wisconsin

so I dropped it once I paid off my car.

My reasoning is, that careful driver that I am, I am extremely unlikely to get into an accident that is my fault. Plus, until I left Wisconsin I was driving my car maybe once a month, at the most. Mandatory liability insurance is a big reason that I don't have a car now. I cannot see paying $300 a year for liability insurance on a car I would use maybe 10 times a year. I can get rental cars and taxi rides for less than that.

[Monk06]

97. In BC, no insurance no drivey car. Insurance must be renewed every

year. Proof of insurance is a non removable decal
attached to your license plates (tags). After the
insurance deadline which is the same time of the
year for everyone you must have the decal attached.

If not $500 fine even if you have insurance and a
decal but forgot to attach it to your plates you're
fined.

Minimum coverage is $1 Million liability plus collision

[billyskank]

101. Because they don't think they're going to have an accident

and they're too tight to pay the premiums.

Although somebody who runs red lights doesn't have much justification for thinking they won't have an accident.

[pitohui]

103. because there are no consequences

in mexico if you drive without insurance and are in involved in an accident, you are put in jail until you produce proof that you can pay the financial damages

we need a similar law

i've known people to drive w.out insurance and cause an accident, there are no real consequences because the judge will give them a hardship exemption to keep driving, after all, if they had $500 to begin with they would have insurance, so the $500 fine does not stop anyone

you can't get blood out of a turnip and for people who are "judgment proof" there is no point to having insurance because the consequence is financial -- in other words, the're already on the bottom financially so there is no money to be had by assessing these fines

driving w.out insurance needs to become a misdemeanor w. some mandatory jail time for those who can't pay, otherwise there is no justice at all for the person harmed

it's sad about the truck but keep in mind, some people receive permanent injuries as a result of being accident victims, and if the damage is a head injury, it will forever impair their ability to earn (i know of two such cases) yet they have no recourse and there is no punishment

[seabeyond]

105. being po. living paycheck to paycheck. chosing food over insurance

it is a bummer all dont have insurance but having chosen paying rent and buying food over insurance in the past, i understand. i hated not having insurance knowing at any time i could be ticket, ergo losing more money to put food on my table, but then that is the curse of being poor.

i had 97 where everything went wrong in my family. every member was hurting for one tragic event or another. it was a rough time for all i loved, hence a rough time for me. it also gave me insight into live that has been invaluable since. it has given me an unbelievable strength and confidence that always there is the possiblity of feeling hte warmth of sun, the joy of laughter from my children and the love we all share. it magnified the good

take care of you and yours

[pitohui]

107. er, this guy can afford to pay downtown parking fees

read the thread further, this dude has a downtown job, if he can afford to pay downtown parking fees, he could have paid insurance instead, took the bus to work and reserved his truck for when it was truly needed, also saving a buttload on gas and maintenance

when i was poor, i sure as hell couldn't pay to park my car downtown!!!!

[seabeyond]

108. just a bitch everyone doesnt toe the line for you huh.....

i say just shoot the man. then you dont have to deal with messy ole life

[dropkickpa]

112. He works as a NIGHT security guard at a bank

I have never been anywhere that parking meters are enforced at night. Also, I know of many back alley type places where one could park their car in my downtown (pittsburgh, during the day it's crazy expensive) overnight at no cost (other than the chance of it getting broken into, etc). The bank may actually have spaces for the security guards also.

[Kali]

121. Maybe the parking fees are a "benefit" of the job?

[Nikia]

109. Why wouldn't auto insurance cover the policy owners car?

I know that policies vary, but I think that policies should always insure one's vehicle regardless of who caused the accident or what happened.
Let everyone take responsibility for themselves.

[LynneSin]

110. I had a co-worker hit by someone without insurance

and I hate to say it - turns out the guy was in the country illegally. Fortunately the only damage was due to a tire spinning off the junker car of that uninsured car hitting my co-worker's car and dinging up her door.

[Blue_In_AK]

118. I think insurance rates vary from state to state...

Up here it is extremely expensive with only a few carriers doing business in Alaska. I was pricing car insurance yesterday for my 21-year-old daughter, who drives a 1999 Pontiac Grand Am. I've been carrying her on my insurance during her teenage years to keep the cost down for her, but I thought now that she's 21 she should be able to at least get liability for her older car at not too great a cost. I was shocked to learn that the cheapest insurance we could get for her (low-end liability) would cost $340 down and $260 a month. That's really a crazy amount of money for a kid just starting out in life. I just decided to continue to carry her for a few more years and hopefully by the time she's 25 it will come down.