"What you people do is a sin."

[idgiehkt]

Horrible argument this a.m.

I lost it completely. So tired of being slandered by my fundie family. This was one of the things said to me, in addition to having "that's a lie from the pits of hell" shouted at me several times when I brought up some things from the past. So according to certain family members I am a liar, vindictive, crazy, not to mentioned doomed to burn in hell because I sleep with women.

Sigh...some days I just don't know what to think... :shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Tell them that. and to STFU.

:hug:

[idgiehkt]

6. I can't even remember all of what I said

I certainly didn't hold back. I'm just so sick of it, and my sister is the instigator. She does this stuff behind the scenes, but I happened to hear it today because my Dad happened to have her on speaker phone, which she didn't know, and I heard it. I picked up another extension and had it out with her and then my Dad and I had it out...we both ended up crying at the end of the confrontation, it was awful. This is the reason I'm not a bridesmaid at her wedding and at this point I don't know if I'll even show up, now. I'm so tired of it, we are 38 and 39 and she's still playing these stupid games.

[hfojvt]

16. games between sisters never end

my older sister is still playing them at 46 and still able to dig at all of us. My mom's sisters had several big fights when they all got together for their dad's funeral and they were 35, 38, 50 and 55.

Also, when it comes to what they consider bad habits, I'm not sure a parent can leave it alone. I cannot have a soda if my mom is around without hearing about it. Although she did not say anything about my messy bachelor pad this time. Sometimes I feel like I should start smoking for a year and then quit. Then I could drink a soda and she would think "oh well, at least he isn't smoking any more".

[idgiehkt]

30. that's really cool your mom cares that you drink soda.

I wish I could get my family to stop, it's horrible for your health. They all can't get through the day without drinking some kind of soda. Being bi isn't a bad habit though, it just is, and they aren't concerned about my health, they think I'm committing a mortal sin and am doomed to hell. If I were shacking up like my sister, I'd be just fine, I suppose.

[NewWaveChick1981]

2. Geez, idg...

:hug: That's awful to be subjected to that... :pals: You know it's not true, but it still hurts. :hug: I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[idgiehkt]

9. It's okay

my family can always count on me to be the 'thunder that clears the air'. I'm just fed up, completely. Thanks.

[WhollyHeretic]

3. I guess loviing someone is wrong but hatred is just dandy

Sorry you had to put up with such crap. :hug:

[idgiehkt]

24. seems that way doesn't it.

for the record, they don't hate me, they just 'hate my sin'. :rofl:

[Call Me Wesley]

4. You sleep with women???!!!???1111

When you wake up, what kind of coffee do you prefer? ;)

Wouldn't it be nice to change family sometimes? :hug:

[idgiehkt]

7. Yes, but I don't EVER, as God is my witness,

drink coffee. :)

[Burma Jones]

21. Coffee's a sin.......

ESPECIALLY if you drink it on the sabbath..........

Shoot, I believe buttons are considered sinful by some oddball cult somewhere.

Me, I think Low Definition Television is a sin.

[cwydro]

5. Well, you'll have plenty of company

:party: .

:evilgrin:

Not making light of your situation; that sounds to be more than anyone should have to deal with. I'm thinking that they're scared; usually fear can provoke a vicious attack.:hug:

[idgiehkt]

31. there is just a lot of craziness in my family right now

fear on both sides. I really made a bad decision about 6 years ago when I left SC and got reinvolved with them again. I mean, it was a terrible, terrible mistake. But I didn't remember all these dynamics, and now I'm kind of like, wow, no wonder I'm so screwed up. They are very limited people...I guess this is the best they can to. But this behind the scenes engineering my sister does just drives me insane every time I'm confronted with it, which thankfully isn't much. It's been 2 years since the last time (and it went better this time, last time I decked her).

[cwydro]

61. well, damn it all

there's been plenty of craziness in my family too...we're a high spirited group. Is your family from SC? I can see that would be rough (I grew up in NC). Hang in there darlin'...don't know how old you are or anything...but things do pass..

[reyd reid reed]

8. Don't let it get to you.

They have their problems, too...that's why they're at you. You're fine. I know it and you know it and that's all that counts in the end.

:hug:

[idgiehkt]

32. thanks RRR

I appreciate it, and I know you are right. I know everything will work out one way or another. Let me know what happens with your short stories, I saw your thread the last night but you'd already found a proofreader by then. :hug:

[Lars39]

10. Are you sure they're family at this point?

They'd have to work awful hard to get into my good graces ever again. :hug:

[idgiehkt]

13. this is par for the course.

And I am extremely, extremely stressed out right now because of the situation with my car. So it didn't take much to set me off today. It has been going on since I was little with my sister and my Dad double-teaming me (my Dad has some issues with the truth, and he feeds her a bunch of crap) which I accept, it's just like what I told him today, they've always done this and they always will and I can't control it but when it so happens that I catch them in the act I'm going to confront and defend myself because I'm sick of being slandered as the crazy, psychopathic queer in my family. There is something about being gay/bi, at least in the South, where people think they can hang a bunch of other bad traits on you as well if you 'admit it' because being non-heterosexual is immoral in the first place...it's like if you are deviant in that way you are deviant in all the other ways too...so weird.

[Lars39]

23. Sounds like boundaries need to be established

for *your* sake. There's no need for you to accept them treating you badly. :hug:

[idgiehkt]

26. it's going on 40 years.

thanks...it just isn't worth it most of the time but today I just happened to hear it and I was so stressed out I lost it. I feel like a weight has been lifted off my chest. My sister is the sweetest, most accomodating person you'd ever want to meet...but these games she and my Dad play behind the scenes are not nice. Most of the time I don't think about it, but today I walked right into it. There is no hope, though...she's blonde, blue-eyed heterosexual perfection, and I'm just not...it's no use for me to even deal with or try to improve on except when it's in my face.

[SacredCow]

29. I feel for ya....

When I came out to my family, there was a mixed reaction... Dad and sis were agreeable to a "don't ask, don't tell" approach (which was all I asked). Mom, on the other hand, kept prying until I gave her answers that she didn't want to know in the first place. Things have settled down now, and I keep my private business exactly that.

Hugs from someone that understands! :grouphug:

[ThomCat]

11. I've disowned relatives for less.

:hug:

Do you really have reasons to keep that kind of hatred and stress in your life? Do they contribute anything positive?

[idgiehkt]

35. right now

I am stuck. I am renting a cabin on their land so I have to deal with them every day. I am trying to get through with school so I can get out of here...until then this will probably be a recurring thing. Thanks for the :hug:

[Road Scholar]

12. For what it's worth, like you I maintained my cool untill my

fucking cup runneth over. I didn't lose it but they all thought I did.I raised hell. I sonofabitched them all. I told them they were all stupid uninformed George Bush Rush Limbaugh hook line and sinker ass kissing selfish prejudice hipocrites. We don't talk politics at my house. Hoping for a quite thanksgiving too.:toast: :toast: :toast:

[idgiehkt]

37. "I sonofabitched them all."

I just love the sound of that. Thanks for making me smile. :)

[Road Scholar]

45. Sometimes it's good to clear the air. It's time to stop being polite

and stand up for what's right if it means taking the bull by the fucking horns and slam his ass to the ground.
Good for you. You have my respect.

[idgiehkt]

51. thanks

I sure don't have anyone else's. I don't want to do these confrontations any more. I'm tired, and this stuff should have been over with 20 years ago. The fact that it is still being carried on is ridiculous. I'm so over it. I just kind of exploded on them both this a.m. because I know I am not a bad person and that is how I am being portrayed...it's so ridiculous. thanks for your kind words. :hug:

[Road Scholar]

56. You have a right to expect certain things with apology to no one.

They might be licking their wounds, and whining and bitching, but I bet they are reconsidering their position on certain things too.
They will eventually respect you more for standing up for yourself.

[miss_american_pie]

14. I'm sorry

:hug:

[idgiehkt]

38. thanks m.a.p.

I appreciate it. :hug:

[crim son]

15. That'll ruin your day.

No matter how stupid, the judgement of family has an effect on how we feel about ourselves. If it's any comfort, I'm also damned because I "lied to God" (my MIL's pronouncement). I think we're going to like it in hell; a lot of the best people will be there :)

[idgiehkt]

28. isn't that the truth

how can you lie to God? Can't he read your mind? I thought 'he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake'...oh, wait that's Santa Claus. Nevermind. But God is omniscient right? I do think Hell is going to rock, like Billy Joel said "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints/The sinners are much more fun."

Sorry about your monster-in-law :(

:hug:

[SKKY]

17. And I'm willing to bet that...

...most of the male members of your family masturbate thinking of you sleeping with women. Religious fundamentals are quite funny, aren't they?

[idgiehkt]

27. that's a repulsive thought

but true. I found out from my ex lover that my Dad had a lengthy conversation where he actually invited her to come live in Charlotte if she couldn't get a job in her field in AL (she has a graphic arts degree and he used to work in that field). The man didn't even tell me he'd talked to her, she called them to get in touch with me. It's so freaking skeevy.

[SKKY]

42. Repulsive, disgusting, sick, whatever you want to call it...

...I'm a guy and I know how we think, and no amount of religious dogma or indoctrination will get rid of it.

[idgiehkt]

44. I appreciate where you are coming from.

I knew that when my ex told me what my Dad had done, that there could only be one thing behind it...it hadn't occurred to me until that point, but when she told me that I knew, and it was creepy. Do you think that that is what the dogma if for in the first place, trying to get rid of their sexual stuff? Why are they so threatened by their own sexuality, I wonder.

[SKKY]

47. It's a question I've asked myself since I was, like, way young...

...Why, if sexual desire is such a fundamental piece of the overall human fabric, do many religions go to great lengths to stifle it? It almost seems self-defeating, and I've never
been able to get my brain around it.

[begin_within]

18. Quote from their Bible: "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me."

Or any of these quotes, all variations on the theme of "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[idgiehkt]

40. those are pretty quotes

the one in your post heading is one of my favorite ones. I don't know where "a lie from the pits of hell" came from, that's a new one so I don't know if it's from the bible or not. Well at least I get my lies at high-end retailer, no knock-offs.

[begin_within]

59. Read between the lies.

[Burma Jones]

19. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God........

My friend, sometimes you just have to turn your back........

anyway, there's a great line from The Simpsons where Rev. Lovejoy is telling Flanders how everything is a sin, I forget the exact quote, but someone here will tell you.

I wish you peace and happiness and a clean conscience......

[idgiehkt]

41. yeah,

the last part, the 'clean conscience' is what I hope for. I hope I am not wrong in the things I said or did, I am just utterly and completely sick of my sister's crap. I can't believe she is still holding on to stuff that happened when we were kids...I mean we are talking 20-25 years ago, and she still wants a pound of my flesh to make up for it. Not things I did to her, just the way things were, that she feels were unfair. But she hasn't had 1/4 of the struggles I've had in my adult life, so I think the balance tilted far in her favor by now. I'm rambling...

just farklempt I guess... :shrug:

[Burma Jones]

46. I have four younger brothers

One of them holds grudges, but I have a clean conscience..


I like this little part of "Everybody's Free to wear Sunscreen"

"Don’t waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind. The race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself.

and this part of Desiderata:

"Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."

[BOSSHOG]

20. Tell them, you know my sins, now how bout sharing yours

The fundamentalist closet is chock full of scandal enough to fill a section at an ABS.

[idgiehkt]

33. yep

my mom caught him cheating on her on the internet a couple of years ago. It broke her heart into a million pieces. She told me in confidence and I have never brought it up until today, but when he started with the 'hating my sin' stuff, I brought it up. I probably should not have, but today was one of those days where I'd just had it up to my eyeballs, you know...there isn't anywhere left in me to put any crap like this...

You are so very right about the fundies. So very true.

[Courtesy Flush]

22. I sleep with a woman, and my brother hates me for it

Even though I'm a guy. He just hates my wife... and me.

How does your family feel about this guy?...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/midterms2006/story/0,,1938920,00.html

[idgiehkt]

43. wow. I'm sorry.

That's really too bad, that your own brother would hate your wife. In my family we generally only hate people that are blood relatives. :rofl:

Your poor wife. It's not fair to her, or you. :hug:

As far as the politics go, we don't talk about it. And I'm sure the word will be mum now that we've got the house back, you know, they won't bring it up.

[Deep13]

25. Acts 9:9-15 niv

About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

[idgiehkt]

48. that's really pretty.

It reminds me of that Whitman verse from Leaves of Grass where he says "I make holy everything I touch...not an inch or particle of an inch is vile."

It does kind of creep me out, though, to think that the doctrine so much of the word is following now was laid down by a bunch of homeless dudes wandering around listening to the voices in their heads.

[Deep13]

50. Yep. Seems to be the only source of objection to...

...treating gay people like people. No one has yet explained what practical detrimental effect homosexuality has on society.

[MissMillie]

34. something for you my dear

:hug:

It sucks when the people who are supposed to just love you can't seem to do just that.

[idgiehkt]

49. I don't know what all this is about with my Dad.

I've always suspected that in his heart he really, really doesn't believe it. He is an extremely intelligent and talented man, and I know that he feels compelled to believe that stuff by I also know that he's smart enough to know that alot of it is bunk. When he comes at me with that fundie speak I feel like he's saying what he 'should' say, and 'should' believe, but inside, his heart is really confused.

Thanks for the hug. :)

[anarch]

36. I've had people tell me that,

but then again I am the president of the North American Blasphemers' Society, so they had a point there.

Anyway, sorry you're having to deal with crap like this...it sounds completely awful. :hug:

[idgiehkt]

53. it's okay

It's a very, very rare opportunity that I get to directly confront my sister, she's an incredibly skilled manipulator. I guess it was for the best. It's so grating to have someone be so saccharine to your face all the time and know that they are ripping you to shreds behind your back at every opportunity. I guess I'm in the N.A.B. society too, though according to my grandmother I'm just a garden variety heathen, lol.

[Deep13]

39. "you people"?

Like it or not, they are part of that "you people".

What can you do but protect your own sanity by not talking to them. They haven't rejected you so much as they have rejected reality.

[idgiehkt]

54. thanks

yep, I'm the one with the scarlet 'S' on my back because I live an honest life. I don't even know if I have much sanity left after all this. :(

the phrase "you people" should be outlawed, I think, nothing good ever comes after it.

[Guava Jelly]

52. You are ok idg!!

They are the ones who are fucked up!

[idgiehkt]

55. thanks GoP

I know, though it feels sometimes like 'majority rules'. They are all saying I am, so I must be. Well, :rofl: the thing is that I know I am fucked up in alot of ways, but just none of the ways they think I am. I am not a liar, a manipulator, vindictive, crazy, or a trouble-maker or any of those things. I have my issues, but those are not them. It's hyterical really. It probably wouldn't help my cause to sit down with them and say, see, I'm really only fucked up in these ways, not the ways you talk about, lol.

:shrug:

:hi: :hug:

[Guava Jelly]

58. I think we all have crazy family's to some extent

I think you are a good person.
And so do a lot of people!
I'm sorry you have to go through so much Bullshit.
I am sure your family loves you they are just a little misguided
Take care :7
:hug:

[Dukkha]

57. you can choose your friends & enemies...

...but "family" is nothing but luck of the draw. We all wish we wee born to progressive tolerant people but that often isn't the case. If they respected you they wouldn't be so slanderous calling you a liar and "sinner" all the time.

emancipate yourself. turn your back on them. they're not worth the mental anguish.

[idgiehkt]

60. yes,

it's just the role I have always played that I got stuck in as a child but it wasn't true then and it wasn't true now. There are more sinister reasons for it that aren't for public consumption but I was innocent. I've always lived away from them until now once I left home so I didn't have to deal with it. I honestly believe the universe brought me back here to get all this stuff cleaned out of my mental closet and truthfully so I could confront my Dad about his treatment of me as a child so he can have kind of a karmic cleansing before he goes onto his next life. It only helps him to be held accountable, I think if you don't work through it and get it out in this life you carry it on to the next one and keep going through it until you own it. It's just incredibly painful for all parties involved and I'm tired of being the impetus for it at this point.

Once I get my certification done and get my adult life moving again I will be away from it and in that capacity I have no problem dealing with it every now and again. Most of the problem is coming from my sister right now, she's kind of the sorceress behind the scenes at this point, but we've never been close so that wouldn't be any big loss.