Those in the UK/Europe - why do you seem to know so much about the US?

[Writer]

I'm always taken by this. When I chat online with someone from Europe or the UK they seem rather well informed about internal American politics and to a certain extent American pop culture. Americans, on the other hand, couldn't tell the difference between Tony Blair and Mr. Belvedere.

Why is this? I'm not one who accepts simple theories such as, "Well, it's 'cause we 'Murkins are dumb," or "We don't care about 'furriners'." I think there's something more cultural/institutional going on here. One theory I have is that many news institutions have closed foreign bureaus over the last twenty years to cut costs; whereas, foreign news bureaus are ubiquitous here. We get covered there - they don't here.

What do you think? Or is this all just a stupid stereotype, and I should go eat a hamburger and drink some shitty beer and keep my mouth shut? ;)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. Here's my take on it

At the moment, America is the world's 300-lb. gorilla. Everything that happens is featured prominently in the news overseas. American TV shows are seen everywhere in the world, as are American movies. People overseas would be hard-pressed to avoid everything American even if they wanted to.

Meanwhile, both our news industry and our entertainment industry isolate us. How often do you see foreign TV shows, even British or Australian or Canadian ones, that haven't been remade for U.S. consumption, outside of PBS or BBC America (which is digital cable only)? I can think of very few: MI-5 and Hustle (both on non-digital cable) from the UK, the various Degrassi series from Canada, and Halifax F.P. from Australia, which played intermittently on Encore Mystery, which is after all, digital.

A&E, which has become the True Crime Channel, used to run British and Australian dramas, but no more. They've even dumped MI-5, which is a superbly done spy series (known as "Spooks" in the UK), despite ardent viewer protests.

Outside of PBS, the networks assume that Americans are too uniquely dumb to take foreign shows straight. The Office, Whose Line Is It Anyway, and Cracker were all originally UK programs. Recently, BBC America ran a unique cop show with a time travel twist called Life on Mars, and word is that the American networks are going to remake that show as well. God forbid that American audiences should have to look at Manchester, England or hear non-American accents.

And forget foreign language programs or even films. There have been a few surprise hits, such as Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Life Is Beautiful, but by and large, any film that isn't in American English just won't find a distributor in the U.S. Every year, first at the Portland International Film Festival and the Twin Cities International Film Festival, I see fabulous--I'm not exaggerating here, fabulous-- movies from around the world, and maybe 10% of them ever find a U.S. distributor, even for the art houses.

Foreign news is also shoved aside in favor of celebrity gossip and sports. I came back from living in Japan a year before the Soviets went into Afghanistan, and thanks to Japanese news coverage, I was one of the few people I knew who understood the background behind that story. The Japanese television news also covered events in Europe better than the U.S. television news.

So I guess my answer is that our mass media, both print and broadcast, work together to keep us ignorant.

[sweetheart]

2. Do they know much?

I haven't found many europeans that know *anything* really about the US, except the
policy of the government, and of course your guardian/independent stuff, which if you
have never visited the US, really doesn't mean that much. What i encounter are a lot
of people who 'think' they know something about the USA, and those same *smart* people
are utterly suprised at the depth of corruption, decay and lies that US official culture
is about, and that this culture is totally separate from the people.

In europe, people generally think of their government as 'we'; whereas in the US, it is
'them' or 'the government' for the vast majority, and european persons who are not well
experienced were decieved by bush, especially the elites in britain who see the US as
a prodigal colony that they revel in like proud parents.

When your nation has created Australia, Canada, the US, New Zealand, South Africa, india
and the rest of the british empire as it once was, it has the vicarious thrill in later
times, of keeping an eye on how the experiments are working out, each like a petri dish
colony, and they can't figure out, in britain where public media really do achieve their
duty to inform the public, how a nation can exist without that facility, it really is
impossible to conceive of an uninformed public unless you've known one.

As well, its difficult to realize for outsiders how privatized the US has become that no
official signs of the takeover exist whatsoever, except dull industrial parks as far as
the eye can see, hiding a shell game of WMD's and preemptive war machinery that has no
value in a peaceful world. Euros as well can't imagine what the insecurity of no medical
care is like on an aging workforce. The flexible labour culture must be expereinced to
be understood, and in the total erasure of social roots, the real political coup.

[T_i_B]

3. Because you're all so interesting!

:yourock:

[caty]

4. I post on the

UK forum "Digital Spy". I am surprised at how some of them really hate us. They think we are all war mongers and don't seem to realize what most of us are all about at all.

[T_i_B]

5. We've always got the DU's very own UK forum

if that tickles your fancy!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=191

[billyskank]

7. Think about this when you wonder why there is so much resentment

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5850969&mesg_id=5863916

[billyskank]

6. Speaking as a Brit, it is because you are our overlords

I'm serious. My country has no foreign policy but what you tell us to do. We are at your beckon call. It has been thus since Suez. It has got so bad now that any Brit can be extradited to the US on simple request, no need for evidence or anything. That Brit can then be locked up, rendered to a third country for torture, whatever. No protection at all. There is no reciprocal arrangement because YOUR rights are protected by the constitution, for what it's worth. That my government signed such a treaty with yours should indicate to you what the relationship between your country and mine is. To put it bluntly, we are a vassal state of the US.

With that in mind, it is unsurprising that we pay attention to what is happening there. Because it affects us. On the other hand, it is also unsurprising that you don't give a shit what happens here. Why would you? You are the masters.

[fizzgig]

8. good post

it is necessary for brits to know about our government while the same could not be said for us in the states.

also, thank you for this because i (embarrasingly) did not know about this.

[billyskank]

9. Don't be embarrassed

They don't exactly make it public what US policy really is all about. This is not a Republican/Democrat thing either - this has long been a bipartisan thing. Democrats are all about controlling the world in the US' interest too. It's just that the neocons are more brazen about it and, to be honest, not so good at playing the game than their predecessors. That is why things are all coming unravelled now.

They don't tell you, because most Americans still think they are anti-imperialists. They venerate the revolution and the constitution, and see the USA as a beacon of hope for the world. Your ruling elites are not going to want to prick that self-image.

[fizzgig]

10. i don't know that i've ever seen the us

as anti-imperialist, but that is certainly what they want us to think.

there are positives about this country but i think those in charge have become so drunk with power that they are willing to screw everyone to keep it. that is what is most frightening to me.

[Reverend_Smitty]

11. people here in the US don't give a shit what happens anywhere including their own country

unless it involves a celebrity's baby or wedding. Most don't know whats going on in their own country let alone another one across the Atlantic. How exactly did it become that Britain became for a lack of better words "America's bitch"? I always wondered how Blair and the rest of the Labour party seemed all to eager to get in bed with Bush and his war in Iraq

[billyskank]

13. I don't really believe it was so much about Blair

He does seem to be a wild-eyed Americanophile, and there is more than a bit of the neocon about him. But I think that even under any different leader, we would still have followed you into Iraq. I honestly don't believe we have any choice in the matter. I think this situation has developed over decades, and it is mostly our fault. The Foreign Office in Whitehall is still obsessed with "punching above our weight," essentially they have never got over the loss of empire. In practice this means sucking up to the big Power, although they call it "influence." There is, needless to say, no evidence of any influence being exerted. It is demeaning and makes me ashamed of my country.

But I do wonder what the consequences would be if my government suddenly decided to strike an independent course. I suspect that your government has a lot of power over us. Take our nuclear weapons, for example. It is impossible for us to use them without your say-so. They are dependent on the Pentagon for their targetting systems.

It really began during the Suez crisis, when we went to war with France and Israel against Egypt. Eisenhower ordered us to knock it off, and we did so. From that moment on it was clear to all that power had shifted over the Atlantic, and it has stayed there ever since.

[Reverend_Smitty]

17. That is an interesting predicament your country is in...

I never knew the back story, thanks for filling me in. I suppose it would take a strong leader "Thatcher-esque" without all the RW craziness to break this cycle of dependency on the US, if it is even possible at this point in time. It's pretty damn difficult to assert distance and independence from the last remaining superpower.

[BarenakedLady]

14. Wow

I had no idea, not surprisingly.

[billyskank]

16. About the extradition thing?

It's shocking, isn't it? My government didn't make a big thing about it either, unsurprisingly.

[LSK]

18. didnt the recent Military Commissions act expand that worldwide?

[billyskank]

19. You couldn't do this with legislation passed in Congress

This was a treaty signed between your government and mine. To expand it worldwide, you would need to sign similar treaties with all other governments too.

I found a link to some information about it:

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/jul/25ukus.htm

and this is the official UK government document about it (PDF):

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/USExtradition_210503.pdf

[redqueen]

20. Aw that's not true.

Our Reagan learned from your Thatcher, did he not?

We're bosom buddies, we are. :)

[billyskank]

22. He did?

What did Thatcher teach him?

I agree that Thatcher did show a bit more independence of thought than Blair does. Things have definitely deteriorated since then.

:hug: :hi:

[redqueen]

25. Well, nothing's firmly documented that I know of...

But she met him when he was still gov, and she was already the leader of the opposition party, IIRC.



Also, see this reference:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/pdf/ufd_privatizethatcher_full.pdf

NEWT GINGRICH: Margaret Thatcher was the forerunner who made Reagan possible.
The 1979 campaign was the direct model from which we took much of the 1980
Republican campaign. Reagan drew great strength from Thatcher and her courage
and toughness in living through that first recession, and toughness in the
Falklands Wars rallied Americans in a remarkable way.... I think Thatcher and
Reagan were the duo that defeated the Soviet empire, relaunched the legitimacy of
freedom and free markets, and created the intellectual framework for the modern
pro-freedom movement. In a lot of ways Tony Blair is Margaret Thatcher's adopted
son. He has actually been running a fairly Thatcherite Labor government.
See Complete Interview of Newt Gingrich
Join the Discussion
Back to Top


Up for Debate: Privatization and the Thatcher Legacy
Tony Benn
"She destroyed our manufacturing industry."

Lots more interesting stuff there :)

[caty]

12. I believe that

every country does or gets involved in things that the people of that country strongly disagree with and are even ashamed of. But, I have never felt as betrayed and ashamed as I have been since 2000. I don't blame other countries for their feelings toward our government. I just hope that they realize that most Americans are compassionate and peace loving people. Like in other countries, some things are just not in our power to change or regulate. We vote for the lesser of two evils most of the time.

[LSK]

15. on a similar note, are there an forums that deal with Europe as a whole?

Something like a DU but focused on European politics and life in general?

[redqueen]

21. Not just people in the UK... and the reason is simple: it affects them. n/t

[Lowell]

23. I spent years in both Europe and Asia

I discovered that for the most part there are some misconceptions about our lifestyle and standard of living, but very little about our government and it workings. I still visit several European news websites everyday because I learned that often they are better informed about what is happening right here in the US of A. They don't have to face the repercussions of a corporate controlled media that we do. If you want to know the truth, or part of it check out the BBC everyday. I like to read Le Monde several times a week also. Unfortunately the BBC is not as honest as it used to be, but Le Monde still tells it LIKE THEY SEE IT.

Asia is another story all together. I read the Bangkok Post, but it is very controlled and sanitized. The Korean Herald (Hangooki) is a good paper and it is illuminating to read their perspective on topics that we are also interested in. Like the six nation talks with NK over nuclear proliferation. I always admired the Koreans and learned to respect them in the many years I spent living in their country during the 1960s. They are often volatile and don't hold much back when it comes to offering an opinion.

On the other hand I think that Americans are grossly ignorant of other cultures for the most part. We have this awful habit of lapsing into stereotypes and condeming whatever we don't understand. For being the melting pot of the world we are for the most part a very xenophobic society.

edited for stupid typos.

[Reverend_Smitty]

24. Our country was founded by hypocrites

so it doesn't surprise me that the great "melting pot" is greatly xenophobic. The Puritans came over here to escape religious persecution and yet the condemn and persecute the native inhabitants. It's ironic that the concept of live and let live was lost on them.

I think it also has to do with our isolation from the rest of the world, I mean we have "America North" aka Canada and nobody worried about the Mexicans until the Republicans tried to make it a campaign issue. Until 9/11 we didn't have to worry about invading forces, our landscape was left untouched in both of the World Wars. So I think it was just years and years of being alone and not vulnerable to outside influence left Americans with this ignorance

[Lyric]

26. Because our corporate-controlled government and media

isolate and cushion us, so that events outside of our borders rarely affect our day-to-day lives.

They want us to stay mostly ignorant of the world outside our borders, because outside awareness and education bring empathy for people in other nations--and true empathy for the people of other countries would be devastating to American business interests and assorted military operations. If every citizen were made truly aware of what happens in places like Europe, China, and India--how could we tolerate having Wal-Mart, Nike, HP, Microsoft, and GE in our midst? If we felt kinship and brotherhood for the people of Iraq, how could we tolerate the bombings and bodies of civilians? Empathy is a poison pill for oppression, cultural invasion, and forced hegemony.

I'd like to blame the people for not educating *themselves*, but I really can't. They're so ignorant, they don't even know why it's important to avoid ignorance. Most of them probably wouldn't even know what BBC *is* unless you told them outright--then it might ring a distant bell, but nothing more. They're so busy trying to make ends meet that a revolution in some nation half the size of Virginia just doesn't rank highly on their scale of importance. Rather than criticizing people for failing to be informed enough, we ought to be trying to make people see how it *benefits* them to be informed. If people understood how much small events overseas can affect their lives here, they'd be more likely to pay attention.

[mr blur]

27. Well, over the last 50 years, there's been a love affair

between you and us where we have traditionally been full of envy for your wealth and conspicuous consumption. It's over now, though. Bush fucked it up. All the movies, crappy TV programs and music that we responded to in the past few decades - you know, the ones that presented an idealised version of the US - they don't work any more.

And we're very aware that what happens in the US effects the rest of the world. And this is bad, but the US now seems like the enemy in many ways - the scariest imperial force on the face of the planet. A recent poll of people in the UK showed that most of us think that Bush is now the greatest threat to world peace.

[Darth_Kitten]

28. Canadians know even more.......

;)