Hospice folks: My ex-husband is refusing food and water tonight... end stage cancer questions...

[Radio_Lady]

Anyone have an idea how long he might be in this state until his demise? Could it be more than just a few days?

All I remember is Terry Schiavo went for many days before dying of dehydration.

My daughter is flying out from PDX tomorrow to be at his bedside in Vermont. She's planning to stay at least a week. Grandpa and I have to take over care of the grandkids starting tomorrow; their father is a doctor and will have to go to work, so he'll be here, but on his usual work schedule.

My head's in a muddle. What can we look for in the ensuing days? Ideas for taking care of an eight-year-old girl and five-year-old boy on a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of Thanksgiving week? By the way, it's raining and in the 40s and 50s here.

Thanks very much for any help you might offer.

[SoCalDem]

1. My friend who died just last month was medicated , but refused

food & water too. It took about 4 days, but she was "comfortable" and was not lucid at the end.
:hug: to you and yours at this very difficult time :cry:

[xmas74]

2. It really depends.

I've worked in nursing homes and I can tell you this-it's pretty peaceful when they refuse food and water on their own. It seems like a calmer, more natural death than some of the others I've been around.


I'll try to call a friend. She was a hospice RN for years. Don't know if I can contact her-might be on the road because of the holidays-but I will try.

[BarenakedLady]

3. I'm so sorry

I have no advice just :hug:

[auntAgonist]

4. I have no idea either Radio Lady

May I offer you a :hug: or two?

:hug: :hug:

aA
kesha

[China_cat]

5. My mother died less than 2 days after she first refused

food and water. I'm sorry for what you are enduring.

[xchrom]

6. i've been through this three times.

each time was different.

the last -- my dad ate pretty close to the end -- when he couldn't eat -- it was about 48 hrs.

with my aunt -- it was about 4 days.

and my partner it was longer -- 5 days maybe more.
he did have water intravenous.

peace be with you.

[Haole Girl]

7. I'm so sorry R_L...

...As far as Terry Schiavo's case---that might have been different, since she did not have cancer.

From personal experience....when my husband's cousin couldn't eat or drink, he only lived 3 more days...he had cancer (originally in his brain, but it spread throughout his entire body only 8 months after diagnosis).

hugs... :hug: :hug: :hug:

[supernova]

8. Refusal of food and water

generally means the body is shutting down. It's the natural process of dying. They literally can't take it in anymore. I went through this with my mother when we had hospice care for her... end-stage breast cancer. She lived several days after she began to refuse water and food.

I really wouldn't hazard a guess as to how long it might be.. you'd have to check w/ the hospice workers who are caring for him.

Much love to you and your family RL. :hug:

For the kids: hey small crafts and movies are always good. :-)

[jannyk]

9. We were in the same situation

with my 82 year old MIL 2 xmases ago. She lingered about 6 days after refusing food/water. The last few days, she was pretty much in a coma. Luckily the hospice provided a bed in her room so somemone was always by her side. The docs/nurses in the hospice had a pretty good handle on when the end was actually approaching - they've done this so many times before.

Can offer no help with the kids tho' - good luck with that.

[blondeatlast]

10. Oh, RadioLady, I had no idea. My deepest sympathy to you.

My father was getting ready to come home from a bout of hospitalization when he had a stroke.

He had refused to eat for about a day so we knew it was coming.

Take care of yourself and I'm sending along a prayer. :hug:

[Whoa_Nelly]

11. I have no advice or input to offer

But give you this :hug:

[Dangerously Amused]

12. With Dad it was 3.5 days.

:hug:

[NMDemDist2]

13. oh Radio Lady! I'm so sorry you are going through this but like most

everyone else has said, it's usually a couple days and rarely more than 4

as for the kids, get some DVDs for them and maybe some craft stuff

again, I'm sorry :hug:

[Wheezy]

14. So sorry...

For the grandkids:

Baking -- making and decorating cookies. Let them do it. It'll be a mess, but will keep them busy for hours.

My daughter was 8 when grandma taught her how to crochet. Knitting, etc is also a possibility if you know how.

Marbles! It's one of the games that got lost over the past decades. Teach them. We play 'closest to the wall', thanks to a an old coffee can full of marbles that grandpa found in the attic one day.

Playdoh. If you don't own some, you can make it. Recipes online, just google 'play dough recipe'. Don't go with the fancy ones. The recipe we use calls for something like 3 cups flour, 1 cup salt, and water. Use food coloring to make colors. Then, after they've played and created something, you can bake it in the oven at 300 degrees to make it nice and hard. If you celebrate Christmas in your family, ornaments are fun to make and the timing is right -- just not too big, or they'll be too heavy.

Check your junk drawer for things like: bread ties, popsicle sticks, straws, clothes pins, toothpicks, etc -- heck, toss in a few dryer sheets too, so they can make ghosts or dolls. Put them all in a big container and make them sort them all out, from biggest to smallest (teach them some skeels, yo). Then, tell them to be creative and make a craft. Give them a bottle of glue or glue-stick and some paper, and there you go.

Good luck. Sorry you're having a rough weekend. Best wishes and hugs to you.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

15. Generally speaking, just a few days.

The body doesn't metabolize food like a healthy body at this point, so don't try to force him, since it really won't make any difference, other than making him uncomfortable. Sometimes people request a small bite of their favorite food or liquid more out of a wish to have a last memory of something that they enjoyed, but even that is taken with much difficulty.

That is my advice as a retired nurse. As for the little ones, games and dvd's, or maybe you can enlist a neighbor with kids to get them out of the house for a while, just to burn off some energy and be around happier things. That is my advice as a grandma.

You're a pretty special lady. :hug:

[LeftyMom]

16. With my grandmother it was several days. She was lucid and not in any pain the first two

groggy and sort of half-awake the third and not with it at all on the fourth.

She actually had a conversation with the doctor about refusing food. She said, in an almost joking tone, that she didn't feel like she was dying. Probably an odd thing for a 92- year old woman in a nursing home who won't eat to say, but she had a funny sense of humor.

[mike_c]

17. no advice, I'm afraid, but can I offer my best wishes for you...

...and your family? It sounds as though your ex-husband's time has come. It should not be long. :hug:

[madrchsod]

18. try to keep everything as normal as possible

for the kids..i`m sorry to tell you that sometimes it take 3-4 for the body to die. be prepared to weather the storm.

[u4ic]

19. With my mother, it was about a week

She was at home, and the home nurse put her on iv saline. She was also on heavy duty morphine (pancreatic cancer); the day before she died was the first day she wasn't lucid. They did up the morphine for her, however. She died the next morning.

"The body knows how to die". I remember that from a workshop I attended earlier this year on dying, given by an RN and a pallative care worker. The body gradually shuts down, and in fact, when liquid is no longer being taken, there is a sort of euphoria that the dying patient experiences.

I'm sorry, Radio Lady.:hug:

[Old and In the Way]

20. Usually a few days, max.

I hope it's a comfortable exit fot your ex....it's the way these things seem to end.

Best regards and many hugs :hug:

[struggle4progress]

21. Two of my aunts died of cancer and refused food and water at the end.

At that point, one lasted about a week, the other only a few days.

I'm really sorry about your husband. I hope he's comfortable.

[nini]

22. My dad survived from Thursday eve to the next Tuesday evening

He was weak otherwise too and really shouldn't have lasted as long as he did.

There's no way to really tell - it could be a few days to about 10 or so.

If you feel he is fighting it tell him it's ok to go and maybe it will help him on his way. We did that with my dad and he was gone within 15 minutes. It's like he needed to hear it was ok to leave us behind.

I'm sorry for your heartache now.

[Radio_Lady]

23. Thank you EVERYONE -- I can't answer all of you individually, but your comments here mean a great...

deal to me and my husband. Those of you who have lost loved ones in this way have been so charitable to share your experiences.
Tomorrow (Friday), I'll have some time to get my house ready to receive the children. We'll have them at least for the weekend until school begins again on Monday. Lots of church and school Christmas fairs are listed in an October paper that I happened to save (I must have had a premonition about this.)

The children are pretty oblivious to this whole process tonight. Of course, it is taking place thousands of miles away... I remember when I was eight years old, my grandfather died in Pittsburgh, and my father cried -- I don't recall him crying before that. Then, he got on a train in Miami and went to the funeral. I didn't know my grandfather because of distance. These children don't know their biological grandfather very well either; it's my husband (their stepgrandfather and my current husband) who they will remember. We live in the same town with them.

Sad story, but true. I'm totally in tears tonight as another person whom I loved for eleven years slips through the curtain of death. Please have a good weekend.

[Kali]

24. Peace to your family, Radio Lady.

Sometimes they like fresh fruit at the end. Strawberries.

[Radio_Lady]

25. Both of my children are flying out from their homes in PDX and SLC to

be with their father in Vermont.

They spoke with him on Friday morning and he has rallied a bit.

Thanks again for your various comments last night and today.

[buddhamama]

26. i have no advice to offer

I am sorry, Radio_Lady! :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Radio_Lady]

27. Appreciate your checking in Buddhamama... and those hugs!

Thanks so much...

[Shine]

28. As a hospice volunteer visitor, I know what you're doing and going through is rough

so my heart and thoughts are with you, Radio Lady. :hug: :loveya:

In my experience, is it very common for patients to stop eating and drinking as their body shuts down and prepares to die. It's an individual thing in terms of how long they may last in such a condition. Sometimes they will rally in order to say goodbye and have closure with that one last relative who is flying in from far away. Other times, I've known of patients who seemingly choose to check out when all their loved ones have left the room, and when they are alone. I guess there's less drama that way. It just depends. People tend to die the way they live.

The bottom line is, although we must each ultimately make this journey alone and in our own way, it is extremely comforting to know there are loved ones who will support us along the way. What you are doing, by just being a soulful presence and providing practical support, is HUGE and a wonderful gift.

Blessing to you and your whole family during this difficult time. Peace be with you, my friend. :hug:

[Radio_Lady]

29. Shine, thanks so much. I'm trying my best to labor through back pain and get

our home ready to receive our grandchildren, who are coming to stay at least overnight.

This is unexpected; and I'm struggling with so much. Please forgive me for not responding right now.

[Mrs. Venation]

30. I'm So Sorry, RL

When my cousin passed away from cancer earlier this year, it was about 48 hours after she began to refuse food and water.

It is very painful to see a loved one succumb to this horrible illness. My thoughts are with you.

:hug:

Mrs. V.

[lildreamer316]

31. My mother...

fought cancer for many years, sometimes remission, the last 3 years were constant hospital and chemo.
She finally collapsed from weakness (lung cancer had robbed her of most of her breathing capacity) at home--fortunately, was found by a friend. She was unconscious, and never regained consciousness. They had her on an IV, but took it out the night she died, because she was not absorbing anything.
She passed 30 min. after I left the hospital (I had just had a baby 4 days before).

She first had cancer when I was 3 years old.

Peace to you and your family in this difficult time. I will be thinking of you today and this weekend.:hug: