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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 05:39 PM
Original message
Song meanings you have wondered about for years; post 'em
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 05:44 PM by blondeatlast
if ya got 'em.

Inspired by the "Worst Song Ever" thread by Flying Monkey and hsher and my's attempt to decipher "Band of Gold" (is he gay/impotent/why didn't she "try before she buyed" and our subsequnt attempt to decipher "Ode to Billie Joe" and "Wichita Lineman" all three songs* of which I admit to loving regardless of their cheeze factor.

*Band of Gold=Freda Payne version only, though!
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Lola" by The Kinks
I pushed her away, I walked to the door
I fell to the floor, I got down on my knees
Then I looked at her and she at me

Did anything happen...? He got on his knees. Unusually specific action, wouldn't you say? He could have rhymed, "I turned from the door as Lola said please..." instead of the "floor/knees" line. Sounds like a bj happened, from here! Very affectionate song, btw - it's one of the triumphs in straight/gay relations!
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Lola turns out to be a man.
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astral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. But that's not what he said
He said,

I got her down on my knee.

Then I loooked at her and she at me . . . .

Well that's the way that I want it to stay and I always want it to be that for my Lola . . . .


_____________________

See, it's nothing more deep than a fella flirting with a girl he found attractive and then finding out she was a guy, and of course it floored him, but he wasn't mad about it or anything nor did he do any jobbers!

It was my favorite song when I was around ten and I may not have even learned the facts of life yet . . . depends on what month it was . . . .
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's one that bothered me: "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"
It's not the Confederate sympathy of the song that bugged me as a child and still bugs me. Instead, it's the timeline depicted, and the age of the narrator. How old was Virgil Caine when Richmond fell? If he was old enough to fight in the Civil War, and old enough to have a wife, then how is it "my brother before me... took a rebel stand / he was just 18 proud and brave, when a Yankee laid him in his grave..." The math of this always confuses me.

OK, I realize children fought wars and married back then - but Virgil describes his brother as being "before me", which means older. His brother fought in the war and died at 18. Fine. Virgil may have been 17 I guess... but then there's the line... oh forget it. I just always saw the narrator as being an old man looking back on his time in the Civil War, having fought it as a teen or young twentysomething. He had a wife and was precocious enough to make the rather mature observations he does and conclusions he comes to in the song. But then in comes that line about his brother being and dying at 18, and being thus older than him during the timeline of the song. So all this stuff happened to him when he was a child.

A very. YOUNG. child.

I realize things were different back then and children were "grown up people" back in the day, but... something in this storyline is just off.
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" (the long version).....
I think I know what the song means; but I'm not 100% sure.





Tikki
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spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. Interesting, I don't know
The title was supposed to be "In The Garden Of Eden." Someone had written "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida," possibly while drunk, on a demo copy. A record company executive saw it and decided to use it as the title, since it sounded mystical and Eastern spirituality was big at the time, with The Beatles going to India and The Rolling Stones experimenting with Indian instruments.

Actually, the vocalist, Doug Ingle, snivels "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida", but whether it is supposed to be In A Garden Of Eden or not is unsure, because Ingle was high on LSD, and therefore he cannot remember (that is also why he's snivelling). That's one explanation. The other is that their drummer was listening to the track after they had recorded it, and when their manager asked him what it was called, he wasn't really sure, so he called it what he thought Ingle was singing. The Simpsons episode is really good too. And it's hilarious when the organist dies from exhaustion And by the way, this is one of the songs that really ushered psychedelic rock, not heavy metal.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1388
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
57. It was originally "In the Garden of Eden"
But the singer mumbled the lyrics and they liked it.
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown" by Jim Croce (the last verse of the song)
"Well, the two men took to fighting
And when they pulled them from the floor
Leroy Brown looked like a jigsaw puzzle
With a couple of pieces gone..."

What happened to Leroy Brown at the end of this song? The first two verses take a lot of detailed time and effort pointing out to us how well-armed Leroy is -- "he got a .32 gun in his pocket for fun, he got a razor in his shoe" -- yet one ill-fated evening, Leroy "casts his eyes upon" a woman married to "a jealous man". What was the jealous man armed with that he was able to defeat Leroy Brown, a man feared by all of South Chicago? Did he use Leroy's own razor against him? I've always wondered about this one.

Great song btw. Ah, those were the days...
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ballad of a Thin Man
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Wrapped up like a deuce"
Huh?
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. It's actually 'revved up like a deuce' - which makes even less sense. EOM
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. A "deuce" refers to a '32 Ford hot rod.
Hence, revved up like a hot rod. :)
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I think I like 'wrapped up like a douche' better. EOM
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I thought it was douche too LOL
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. "The Coward of The County" by Kenny Rogers
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 06:42 PM by hsher
Here's another "sudden violence in the third verse" song from the Seventies:

Tommy, the protagonist of the song, is bullied routinely by the people of his small country town. One day, the well-connected and powerful Gatlin brothers, who tormented him his entire life, make the mistake of raping Tommy's true love Becky.

"There's someone for ev'ryone and Tommy's love was Becky.
In her arms he didn't have to prove he was a man.
One day while he was workin' the Gatlin boys came callin'.
They took turns at Becky.... and there was three of them.

Tommy opened up the door and saw his Becky cryin'.
The torn dress, the shattered look was more than he could stand..."

After Becky is daisy-chained by these three thugs, Tommy thinks back on his father's pacifist, Christlike advice not to fight, but then of course, true to these great old Seventies story songs, verse three presents the twist in events:

"The Gatlin boys just laughed at him when he walked into the barroom.
One of them got up and met him halfway 'cross the floor.
When Tommy turned around they said, "Hey look! ol' yeller's leavin'."
But you could have heard a pin drop when Tommy stopped to lock the door.

Twenty years of crawlin' was bottled up inside him.
He wasn't holdin' nothin' back; he let 'em have it all.
When Tommy left the barroom not a Gatlin boy was standin'.
He said, "This one's for Becky," as he watched the last one fall."

As a kid I wondered, DID TOMMY KILL THE GATLIN BOYS? It certainly seems to, but Kenny Rogers seems to carefully avoid outright saying it. I understand the motivation Tommy had, but in today's nervous light, doesn't this song seem like advocacy of revenge violence? Did Tommy go on what really could be seen as a violent, Columbine-style spree? The Columbine boys were bullied, too. Like Tommy, they chose the dark route, although Tommy's motive, seeing his wife had been gangraped, is certainly understandable. But it looks like this song advocates and suggests retaliatory violence. Indeed, the next to last lyric in the song goes,

"Sometimes you gotta fight when you're a man."

True enough. But not PC today. My haunting question as a kid listening to this -- I would actually get big eyes listening to this in the dark -- did Tommy murder them...?


*Edited to correct the inaccurate lyrics I Googled up. I know this song by heart. Lyrics correct now.

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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
58. No, he beat them up.
That's the way I've always understood the song.

The implication in the song is that it's one thing for Tommy to stay out of fights and quite another thing to stand by when someone has assaulted his wife.

God help us all, but there was actually a TV MOVIE made of this song.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082208/
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. I always assumed Billie Joe was gay.
But I could be wrong.

Just about anything Phil Collins has ever sang besides 'Land of Confusion' doesn't make alot of linear sense.

I always wondered about "Heart-Shaped Box" by Nirvana, too. And "Plateau" that they cover on UnPlugged:

nothing on top but a bucket and a mop
and an illustrated book about birds
see a lot up there but don't be scared
who needs action when you got words...


:shrug: I love that song but wtf?
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I did, too
Specifically, lesbian.
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. holy crap
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 07:00 PM by idgiehkt
I never thought about that possibility. Wow. Now my mind is blown. I just read the lyrics, which give me chills, and they really don't specify gender in that song. It's a great song...wow. Makes me sad, and you could very well be right because I grew up with so many Billy-Joes and Bobbie-Joes and Johnnie-Maes and names like that that were female.
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spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. delete
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 07:54 PM by spillthebeans
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Yes, Billie Joe's gender is specified in the song.
"And Brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billie Joe
Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show
And wasn't I talkin' to him after church last Sunday night?"
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. But what if Billie Joe was like Brandon Teena?
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 11:10 PM by hsher
That's what I thought was happening here: a butch stud falls in love with a popular girl, things go wrong, and Billie kills herself rather than be outed by that ignorant town for loving that girl. I thought the singer "thought" Billie Joe was a boy, but then learned *otherwise*. Hence the "he".
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I have no idea what Bobbie Gentry meant by the song...
I was only responding to the assertion that the song does not mention his gender.
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Enquiring minds want to know. Let's Wiki and solve it together.
Here I go... going to Wiki...
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Warning: for "Ode to Billie Joe" obsessors only! (Long analysis)
Bobbie has no idea either. Here's some stuff I found. Warning: this stuff is LONG.

***

The Mystery of Ode to Billy Joe

In 1967 country singer Bobbie Gentry released a single entitled Ode to Billy Joe. The song's breezy bluegrass tune and memorable chorus made it an instant hit, and today it remains one of the most popular country songs of all time.

The song has remained popular for another reason, however. The lyrics of Billy Joe are haunting and mysterious, and recount an odd Southern gothic tale of a young man's tragic suicide. The story is noticeably incomplete however, and the listener is left with many unanswered questions.

This page is an attempt to summarize the controversy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lyrics

The following are the complete lyrics to Ode to Billy Joe. The song is approximately three minutes long. There does not appear to be any truth to the rumors that the song was originally longer but was trimmed for length, and thus that vital lyrics were "cut."

Also note that the spelling "Billie Joe" is often substituted for "Billy Joe," with the former spelling actually being used on the albulm cover.

It was the third of June,
another sleepy, dusty Delta day.
I was out choppin' cotton
and my brother was balin' hay.
And at dinner time we stopped,
and we walked back to the house to eat.
And mama hollered at the back door
"y'all remember to wipe your feet."
And then she said she got some news this mornin' from Choctaw Ridge
Today Billy Joe MacAllister jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

Papa said to mama as he passed around the blackeyed peas,
"Well, Billy Joe never had a lick of sense,
pass the biscuits, please."
"There's five more acres in the lower forty I've got to plow."
Mama said it was shame about Billy Joe, anyhow.
Seems like nothin' ever comes to no good up on Choctaw Ridge,
And now Billy Joe MacAllister's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge

And brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billy Joe
Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show.
And wasn't I talkin' to him after church last Sunday night?
"I'll have another piece of apple pie, you know it don't seem right.
I saw him at the sawmill yesterday on Choctaw Ridge,
And now you tell me Billy Joe's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge."

Mama said to me "Child, what's happened to your appetite?
I've been cookin' all morning and you haven't touched a single bite.
That nice young preacher, Brother Taylor, dropped by today,
Said he'd be pleased to have dinner on Sunday. Oh, by the way,
He said he saw a girl that looked a lot like you up on Choctaw Ridge
And she and Billy Joe was throwing somethin' off the Tallahatchie Bridge."

A year has come 'n' gone since we heard the news 'bout Billy Joe.
Brother married Becky Thompson, they bought a store in Tupelo.
There was a virus going 'round, papa caught it and he died last spring,
And now mama doesn't seem to wanna do much of anything.
And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on Choctaw Ridge,
And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

Annotations

Facts we can divulge from the song:

1) The story takes place in Mississippi. Choctaw Ridge, Carroll County, Tupelo, and the Tallahatchie Bridge all exist in real life. The opening line suggests the speaker lives in the Delta religion of the state, which is located in nothern Mississippi.

2) the speaker's father does not care much for Billy Joe, her mother is more sympathetic, and her brother was apparently a friend of his at one time.

3) the speaker apparently had some degree of sympathetic relationship with Billy Joe. She was talking to him at church and was seen with him on the bridge. When she finds out he is dead she loses her appetite (unlike the rest of the family) and later spends "a lot of time" throwing flowers off the bridge in what is clearly some sort of memorial tribute.

4) the family of the speaker is largely oblivious to the relationship she had with Billy Joe, and for some reason she has no interest in bringing it up.

Unresolved questions from the song:

1) What did the speaker and Billy Joe throw off the bridge, and at what time did this event occur? The fact that Brother Taylor visited the speaker's house on the same day Billy Joe died does not necessarily mean he saw the girl and Billy Joe throwing the thing off the bridge on this day as well.

2) What degree of relationship did the speaker and Billy Joe have? Was it sexual? Ages are not given, but it is suggested that the speaker is at the very least a teenager. She lives with her parents, but is capable of doing hard labor in the field. Her brother is old enough to get married and move out of the house. The brother recalls putting a frog down his sister's dress- a rather immature stunt- but this likely happened years ago and is being remembered out of nostalgia.

3) The key question- why did Billy Joe commit suicide, and to what degree was this related to:
-his relationship with the speaker
-talking to the speaker at church the Sunday prior
-he and the speaker throwing something off the bridge
-visiting the sawmill the day before

Themes

Regardless of the unanswered questions of the song's plot, the song nevertheless contains several themes. The first is simply that of a "period piece" of Southern life in the early 20th Century.


The other theme is a darker one, about the indifference we often show towards the loss of human life. The speaker's family talks about a young man's suicide in the most nonchalant way possible. The line "Well, Billy Joe never had a lick of sense/ pass the biscuits, please" is a great example. Aside from the speaker, no one seems to know or care much about Billy Joe. His death is just a source of dinnertime gossip, like the weather.

Theories

1) The most common theory is that Billy Joe and the speaker were indeed involved in some degree of romantic / sexual relationship that was kept hidden from the speaker's family because the father strongly disliked Billy Joe. This in turn is commonly interpreted as meaning the couple had an unplanned child at some point, and they threw the baby off the bridge together rather than deal with this manifestation of their illicit relationship. The guilt stemming from the murder of his own child later in turn caused Billy Joe to kill himself.

Some have gone even further and speculated that because the child was unwanted, it was either stillborn or aborted in some haphazard fashion, and then quietly "disposed" of off the bridge to hide the proof that the pregnancy had ever occurred. I've heard some point to the relevance of the "Child, what's happened to your appetite" line as a subtle key to this. Loss of appetite commonly occurs after giving birth. But it also commonly occurs when someone is depressed.

2) Another theory is that Billy Joe and the speaker are different races. This is consistent with the song's Southern theme and may explain the speaker's motivation for keeping her relationship with Billy Joe hidden. The food being eaten at dinner may be intended to represent traditional black Southern cuisine, and the mother's use of the word "child" to address her daughter is a rather distinctly African-American expression. The speaker similarly mentions picking cotton, which is likewise a chore that has been primarily associated with Southern blacks since the days of slavery. An inter-racial relationship during the period in which the song is set would clearly be a social taboo, and may have led the speaker to break up with Billy Joe, who proceeded to commit suicide. The unwanted child theory can be similarly strengthened by this premise, as a mixed-race baby would be even more socially unacceptable than an mixed race romance.

3) A third theory says that Billy Joe's suicidal tendencies were well-known to the speaker. The thing thrown off the bridge was thus a gun, after she successfully convinced Billy Joe not to kill himself. But then later he jumped off the bridge anyway, proving the failure of her efforts.

Is there a "correct" answer?

It depends. There are two "official" sources you can cite.

1) According to the 1975 movie

In 1976 Warner Bros. made a movie inspired by the song, entitled simply Ode to Billy Joe. It starred Robby Benson as Billy Joe McAllister and Glynnis O'Connor as the speaker, who was given the name "Bobbie Lee Hartley."
The film's tagline was "What the song didn't tell you, the movie will" and thus purported to provide an authoritative conclusion to the mystery.

The movie has been criticized for taking too many artisitc liberties and introducing too much new information that is not even hinted at in the song. Wikipedia provides the following plot summary:

Set in the early 1950s, the film explores the budding relationship between budding relationship between Bobbie Lee Hartley and Billy Joe McAllister.

Hartley and McAllister struggle to form a relationship despite resistence from Hartley's family, who contend she is too young to date. They develop the relationship, despite the odds in their way. One night at a party, however, McAllister gets drunk. In his inebriated state, he makes love to another man dressed in drag, though later he reveals he knew what he was doing. He bids an enigmatical goodbye to Hartley. Overcome with guilt, McAllister subsequently kills himself by jumping off the bridge spanning the Tallahatchie River in Mississippi.

<...>

The object thrown from the bridge is the narrator's ragdoll; throughout the book and film she voices her concerns that she will always remain a child. The ragdoll being thrown from the bridge marks the point at which she begins moving towards adulthood.

The reference to the "book" refers to the 1976 movie novelization.

2) According to Bobby Gentry

Bobby Gentry has historically remained coy about the meaning of her song. According to her, the main theme of Billy Joe was simply death and dying, and the ways in which we can be indifferent and oblivious to the suffering of others.


In a 2002 interview with the Florida-based TCPalm.com website, Herman Raucher, the screenplay writer of the Billy Joe film, recalls his encounter with Gentry as he tried to figure out the song's meaning:


INTERVIEWER: the screenplay for the Deep South, song-inspired film Ode to Billy Joe. How did that come about?
RAUCHER: There’s an actor and writer and producer and director named Max Baer, whose father was the world champion. And Max called me because Summer of ‘42 just knocked him out, and he said, I’ve got the rights to Ode to Billy Joe. Now, you have to understand that Ode to Billy Joe was, at that time, the largest selling record in musical history.
I said, ‘Max, what the hell do I know about Ode to Billy Joe?’
He says, ‘I want you to come out here and meet with Bobbie Gentry - I’ll pay your way out here.’
I said, OK. ... Max and I go to meet her, and I ask her what does the song mean?
She said, ‘I made it up. I don’t know what it means.’
I said, ‘You don’t know why he jumped off the bridge?’
She said, ‘I have no idea.’

He proceeds to explain that since the song apparently lacked a "true" meaning, he simply made up his own storyline to explain the lyrics.


Bobbie Gentry is still alive, but has largely fallen from the public radar screen. She has never published an autobiography, so today it is difficult to determine if she has ever made any more authoritative statements on the meaning of "Billy Joe." There is no reason to deny Raucher's story. Many musicians, notably John Lennon and the Beatles, have frequently made similar statements indicating that their songs' lyrics don't have a firm meaning and it is instead up for the listener to determine their significance.

It does seem a bit odd to me that Herman Raucher would travel all the way to meet Gentry in person just so she could tell him the song has no meaning. Couldn't a simple phone call have sufficed?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spin-offs and parodies

Bob Dylan- Basement Tapes (1975)

Bob Dylan is said to have hated Ode to Billy Joe. His song Clothesline Saga (track nine of the Basement Tapes album) was clearly an attempt to create a sarcastic parody of Gentry's original song. Clothesline is a largely nonsensical, go-nowhere song that tells the story of a kid who is helping his parents hang up the clothes to dry. Along the way, he and his parents have dull back-and-forth conversations. Here's an excerpt:

The dogs were barking, a neighbor passed,
Mama, of course, she said, "Hi!"
"Have you heard the news?" he said, with a grin,
"The Vice-President's gone mad!"
"Where?" "Downtown." "When?" "Last night."
"Hmm, say, that's too bad!"


The song closely mimics much of the style of Ode to Billy Joe, and features many similar expressions and phrases. Unlike Billy Joe however, the lyrics of Clothesline contain no deeper meaning or mystery, and are instead excruciatingly mundane. One gets the impression Dylan regards the Billy Joe song as enormously over-rated.

Austin Lounge Lizards- Small Minds (1995)

The Austin Lounge Lizards are a Texas-based country / bluegrass band who sing largely humorous, satirical songs. Track one on the Small Minds album is called Shallow End of the Gene Pool. The song tells the story of a guy who is mentally and socially inept in every conceivable way. At the end he decides to explore genetic engineering as a way to "fix" himself. The final line in the song is "And that's why Billy Joe MacAllister's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge," sung in the exact same manner as the Bobby Gentry song. This line makes no sense within the context of the song, and appears to have only been included as a sort of nonsensical piece of musical filler. The two songs have sort of similar tempos, which makes the line "fit" musically.

Ode To Billie Joe By Glen Hannah

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what did Billie Joe MacAllister throw off the Tallahatchie Bridge?

What the Lyrics reveal
The 1967 song by Bobbie Gentry (written by Gentry) is a bittersweet tale of young love and its tragic consequences in farmland America. The urban myth that grew up around the song was that the lyrics suggested Billie Joe McAllister, the troubled title character, threw a baby off the Tallahatchie bridge; the result of an illicit union with a young girl; but do the lyrics substantiate this? What other mysteries does the song contain?

To best appreciate this article readers may wish to view the original lyrics. Open the following link in another window for easy reference.

See "Ode To Billie Joe" Lyrics

The song is told from the viewpoint of a young girl (Verse 4 - "Child what's happened..." and "Saw a girl that looked like you"), but how young or old is not clear.

The unnamed Girl sings about how she heard about the death of Billie Joe while having an everyday family meal. The Mother announces the news of the suicide of Billie Joe MacAllister to the family, but it doesn't disturb their appetite for black-eyed peas, biscuits and apple pie, suggesting that the family wasn't particularly close to the boy. The Father's comment "Well Billie Joe never had a lick of sense" (Verse 2) confirms this.

The only person who seems affected by the death is The Girl. Her lack of appetite (Verse 4) suggests the news hits her deeper than the rest of the family. The family's indifference also suggests that they are unaware of the true extent of her feelings for Billie Joe, as there is no attempt to console her or for that matter, convey the news with any sensitivity. It's just blurted out at the dinner table like any other piece of local gossip.

Verse 3 confirms that The Girl was "talkin' to him after church last Sunday Night", and Verse 4 conveys the hearsay that Brother Taylor also saw them together on Choctaw Ridge. Although the actual line is, "He said he saw a girl that looked a lot like you" (Verse 4). This leaves room for speculation that Billie Joe was with someone other than The Girl; the implication is, in the context of the rest of the song, that it was indeed she.

The final line of Verse 4 is the ambiguous one:
"And she and Billie Joe was throwing something off the Tallahatchie Bridge". The "Baby" interpretation is not supported by the lyrics. Scandalous though it may be, it is really a misinterpretation.

This line clearly states that Billie Joe was not acting alone, and that they were both participating in the "throwing". This could mean that they were both lifting and throwing the same object OR that there were a number of identical objects and they were throwing these separately. For instance, together they could have been throwing a big log from the nearby sawmill OR each of them could have been throwing stones together. The line fits either way.

The answer appears in the final verse (Verse 5).
It is a year since the suicide, and life has changed the family - the Brother is married and has left town, the Father is dead and the Mother has lost some of her will to go on. It is, in fact, the anniversary of Billie Joe's death, and the Girl sings about "pickin flowers up on Choctaw Ridge" and dropping them off the Tallahatchie Bridge. This could be interpreted as an act similar to laying flowers at a grave site, and it is, but there is more to it.

This is where some speculation comes in.
Billie Joe and The Girl have known each other for a long time. The incident in Verse 3 about putting a frog down her back at the Carroll County picture show is the mischievous act of children, so we can deduce that they have grown up together, and seen a lot of each other in passing. Billie had developed strong feelings for The Girl over the years, but she was unaware of it. What Brother Taylor saw on the bridge that day was probably the time when he expressed his love for her.

They had been throwing flowers off the Bridge that day ("And she and Billie Joe was throwin' flowers off the Tallahatchie Bridge"). Why? Probably just to watch them float down stream. It was the youthful, carefree act of two backwoods teenagers enjoying each other's company. The mood took Billie Joe and he told The Girl of his love for her. Unfortunately, she didn't feel as strongly for him, and told him so. The pain of the rejection was too much for him to bear, and rather than live without The Girl's love, he chose to commit suicide. He chose to jump off the Tallahatchie Bridge to send a message to The Girl. She and she alone, would know exactly why he took his own life.

In light of this, the final two lines of the song reach a deeper level of poignancy.

("And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on Choctaw Ridge
And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahatchie Bridge")

The Movie
In 1976, a film version of "Ode to Billie Joe" was made. Bobbie Gentry received a co-writing credit on the movie, but that does not mean...
a) That she had a hand in writing the actual screenplay
b) That the screenplay expanded on the original meaning of the song.

More likely, as is often the case, she was given a writing credit as a matter of form, as the bare bones of the song's story were used in the film. The screenwriter then expanded the story into feature film length adding sub-plots, additional characters etc. The film version ads another dimension to the story not found in the song. Billie Joe in the film is a repressed homosexual. He confesses his love for The Girl (called Bobby Lee in the film), only to cover his growing fear that he may be homosexual. After a sexual encounter with an unnamed man, he is unable to live with his guilt, and jumps off the Tallahatchie Bridge.
None of this story line is evident in the original song, and it is unclear if this was Gentry's original vision, or just the work of a professional scriptwriter trying to film up 100 minutes of movie time.

The Longer Version
According to one source, the original song actually ran closer to 7 minutes, but as this didn't fit in with radio station formats in 1967, the song was shortened to its current length. This may explain the lack of detail about what was thrown off the bridge. If the song was originally longer, additional verses may have shed more light on their relationship between Billie Joe and The Girl.
When was the song shortened? At the rehearsal stage? The recording stage? After the recording stage? It's possible that somewhere out there, the original 7 minute version exists on tape.

A final mystery
A final mystery for your consideration. Why isn't Billie Joe really Billy Joe? Does the song suggest that the title character is really a girl? Listening to the song again in this context, it takes on a completely different meaning. A lesser known opinion is that the tale is actually one of young lesbian love. However, hidden in the lyrics, Billie Joe is quietly referred to as "him" ("Brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billie Joe. Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show. And wasn't I talkin' to him after church last Sunday night?") So, Billie Joe is clearly a young man. Right? Not if you interpret the line as Brother actually saying "And wasn't I talkin' to TOM after church last Sunday night?"

Copyright Glen Hannah (c)2000
Themestream Contributor
July 7, 2000

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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. thanks for posting this
it's like every story I've ever half-heard in my family on either side. The details are hush-hush and you never really are able to figure out the whole story. You never find out just why so and so went to prison in Arizonza, if another so and so killed his wife intentionally or if the gun just went off, if another so and so was really illegitimate or just a genetic throwback, etc, etc, etc,. Drives me nuts, but I think it's cool someone wrote a song in that vein.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Nice work, hsher! Still as clear as mud with yet a new possibility added:
Edited on Mon Nov-27-06 01:02 AM by blondeatlast
It never occurred to me before that it could be a mixed race relationship.

I wonder if Bobbie Gentry gets a chuckle at all the speculation about her song? I remember my parents and much older sisters used to discuss it at length on car trips. I just thought it was a great song then but now am as intrigued as they were!

Edit: typos!
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Here's the final word: Billie Joe and narrator = same person
The narrator was mad. :silly:
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
61. That's some interesting stuff
I've read some of the information before as I like Bobbie Gentry and "Ode" a lot but it's interesting to see it all summed up. Personally, I had always thought the theory that they threw a baby off the bridge was an interesting one, but maybe just because it was so messed-up! I know in the movie (which I watched out of curiosity a few years ago when it came on TV at 3 AM!) they throw a doll off the bridge, and the secret is that Billie Joe is gay and struggling with the fact. I like how Bobbie has never revealed the answer to the song's "secret." She's been outside of music since the late-seventies and essentially cut off from public life in general so there's a good chance she never will tell what the song is about. Which is cool in a way because it keeps the mystery but also frustrating because I think there are a lot of people who would be curious to know.

(Oh yeah, and I would recommend checking out more of Bobbie Gentry's stuff to anyone who is a fan of "Ode to Billie Joe." She's mostly been undeservedly forgotten beyond her biggest hit, but she's got other good stuff. Her LPs, The Delta Sweete and Patchwork in particular, are just very good Southern, country-, blues-, and pop- influenced music. She wrote most of her own stuff and has a very unique style. I think most of her old albums are out of print, but there is a cool CD compilation, Chickasaw County Child, that gives a pretty good overview of her career.)
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. The song "Daniel" by Elton John"
and by the way...for some reason I just don't "get " Beck.:shrug:
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Beck has one great song (called "Mixed Bizness"). The rest of his stuff does nothing for me.
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" - does this take place in a gay bar?
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I've never heard about the bar
but I have heard that the song is about the kid being gay and another gay person either reaching out to/hitting on him
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Steely fan: I always thought it was a white guy hitting on a Latina
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 07:04 PM by hsher
But re-examining them lyrics now, I can totally see the gay bar subtext:

"We hear you're leaving, that's OK
I thought our little wild time had just begun
I guess you kind of scared yourself, you turn and run
But if you have a change of heart...

CHORUS:
Rikki don't lose that number
You don't wanna call nobody else
Send it off in a letter to yourself
Rikki don't lose that number
It's the only one you own
You might use it if you feel better
When you get home

I have a friend in town, he's heard your name
We can go out driving on Slow Hand Row
We could stay inside and play games, I don't know
And you could have a change of heart

CHORUS

You tell yourself you're not my kind
But you don't even know your mind
And you could have a change of heart"

Boy, BIG possible gay subtext there. I swear I never saw that until now. I always thought it was the classic "we're different races but I want you" thing. What always made me think that was that last verse, "You tell yourself you're not my kind, but you don't even know your mind." EDITED TO ADD: also the overtly Latino tempo of the song. As a kid I always imagined a very young Puerto Rican woman like Maria from Sesame Street, ambivalent about the white guy chatting her up in the song. But spun gay, it definitely works gay. How 'bout that genderblurred name Rikki! :D

Same trick used in Billie Joe.

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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I guess they purposely left it ambiguous, in the homophobic 1970s.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. "Rikki" is one of Steely Dan's most straightforward songs,
despite the many attempts to portray it as something more. It's about a guy with unrequited love for a girl. Literally. End of story. It's 'Dan-ish in that the guy is a little creepy, but that's it.

Rikki, spelled that way, is usually a girl's name anyhow.

:hi:
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Steely Dan song guys usually ARE creepy, you're right
What's that about? Donald Fagen's got one twisted sense of humor. I suspect him behind most of this rather than Walt. Listen to "Morph The Cat", which Fagen did without Becker, and the twistedness is continuing snarky and 100% freak full-swing!
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. That's just the 'Dan modus operandi.
They like to be subversive. :)
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Judy in Disguise - John Fred and His Playboy Band.
Judy in disguise, well that's what you are
Lemonade pie with a brand new car
Cantaloupe eyes come to me tonight
Judy in disguise with glasses

Keep a-wearing your bracelets and your new rara
Cross your heart - yeh - with your living bra
Chimney sweep sparrow with guise
Judy in disguise with glasses

Come to me tonight, come to me tonight
Taking everything in sight
Except for the strings on my kite

Judy in disguise, hey that's what you are
Lemonade pies hey got your brand new car
Cantaloupe eyes come to me tonight
Judy in disguise with glasses

Come to me tonight, come to me tonight
Taking everything in sight
Except for the strings on my kite

Judy in disguise, well what you aiming for
A circus of horrors, yeah, well that's what you are
You made me a life of ashes
I guess I'll just take your glasses
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
39. I remember that one--completely bizarre! Pretty manic, and then it slows waaaaaay
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 09:23 PM by blondeatlast
down at "I guess I'll just take your gla-asseeeeeeeeez..."

Wikipedia says it's a straight parody of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," but if so, it's probably the best parody song ever, IMHO.

The Wiki entry is quite interesting--they were more than a novelty act, apparently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fred
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. "Killer Queen" - Queen
She keeps her Moet et Chandon in a pretty cabinet
'Let them eat cake.' she says just like Marie Antoinette
A built-in remedy for Kruschev and Kennedy
At anytime an invitation you can't decline

Caviar and cigarettes,
Well-versed in etiquette,
Extr'ordinarily nice,

She's a Killer Queen
Gunpowder, gelatine
Dynamite with a laser beam
Guaranteed to blow your mind (anytime)
Ooh, recommended at the price
Insatiable in appetite (Wanna try?)

To avoid complications she never kept the same address
In conversation she spoke just like a baroness
Met a man from China went down to Geisha Minor
(Killer, killer, she's a killer Queen)
But then again incidentally, if you're that way inclined

Perfume came naturally from Paris (naturally)
For cars she couldn't care less
Fastidious and precise

She's a Killer Queen
Gunpowder, gelatine
Dynamite with a laser beam
Guaranteed to blow your mind (anytime)
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Drag queen!
I always felt this was Freddie writing and singing a song about what I think might be a common play fantasy: I, gay man, for a day, am now this glamorous female (?... maybe ) super ultra-b****, tall, leggy, slender, haughty and superfoxy, with all the right toys, all the right wardrobe, and powerful men (sometimes straight, sometimes not) falling prostrate at my feet. My gay guy friends might disagree this is a huge fantasy among them... but so far NOT ONE HAS! They all agree! This imaginary superqueen is the entire reason for the existence of the fashion industry; in a negative way I hold her responsible for women's eating disorders now, because in their excitement to create this fantasy for women -- because there's little freedom to express it themselves, instead -- gay men have posted a standard impossible for women, having estogen and curves, to attain.

I wonder how many vicarious gay male thoughts are rippling down the runway when a thin, gorgeous, gender-unspecific female supermodel storms haughtily down the catwalk in some piece of fluffy frosting her designer has sewn upon her. "I AM HER. I AM HER. I AM HER." :7

We need to let fashion be a gay guy thing. I ain't starving my curves off to look like some sexy 21-year-old boy with a pout and legs the size of my wrists. Let the boys have that! They've got no curves to fit in those straight-line-cut duds, so let em wear the stuff! Look better than us in em anyway.

My take on "Killer Queen": Freddy Mercury's fantasy of himself as the ultimate western London geisha, catering to men of power in the mythical "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" society that openly welcomes drag queens. Maybe one day we will become this society. Maybe someday.
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
56. I think it was just an ode to beautiful drag queens
It was really ballsy of him to have written it and sang it when he did. I always felt that it was an ode to transgendered men but I also felt that he had a specific person in mind when he wrote it. It's my favorite Queen song ever.

There's been speculation that many fashion models may have a genetic twist that makes them sort of an XXY person. Natalie Angier (it's late, that may be wrong) goes on about it at length in her book that I can't remember the name of either, a Geography of Woman or something. It's pretty interesting, basically she says there's a genetic reason that these women look the way they do, ectomorphic (which translates as 'without form'), clear skin, beautiful thick hair, etc. It's a genetic type that is mixed with male traits apparently. I've forgotten everything I used to know about it from reading her book.

And I have to say that you have more stuff in your head than most people I know. I'm awed.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. There's a thread about Ode to Billy Joe and the Witchita Lineman?
Can you post a link, pretty please?
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. It's this one
Any and all theories welcomed!
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spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. I didn't knew that,The Police - De Do Do Do De Da Da Da
had a meaning until some weaks ago a radio DJ mentioned that it was the morse code for three letters WNO meaning "with no other"

W = . - -

N= - .

0= - - -
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Oooh, that Sting's a tricky little rascal, isn't he.
Or is it fate? Synchronicity? :silly:
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Haole Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. Sister Golden Hair - America
Will somebody please tell me?
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spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. There is an interesting website that might help
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 08:46 PM by spillthebeans
Guitarist Gerry Beckley wrote this. When asked if it was written to anyone, Beckley said: "No, this is all poetic license. With 'Sister Golden Hair,' as far as my folks were concerned, I was writing a song about my sister, and I couldn't quite fathom it; they must not have listened to the lyrics."

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2062

You can check the comments by other users out and see what they think
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Haole Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Thanks...a lot of different interpretations...
..but, obviously, not about his sister! Oh well. I guess it will remain one of life's many mysteries. ;-)
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. You Set The Scene. (by Love)


Where are you walking, I've seen you walking
Have you been there before?
Walk down your doorsteps, you'll take some more steps
What did you take them for?
There's a private in my boat and he wears
Pins instead of medals on his coat
There's a chicken in my nest and she won't
Lay until I've given her my best
At her request she asks for nothing
You get nothing in return
If you want she brings you water
If you don't then you will burn
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
37. "Band of Gold"--still haven't worked it out. Is he gay/impotent/just not interested?
I know someone who has no interest in sex in any way shape or form and never has so that truly is a possibility as far as I'm concerned.

The song was written by a male/female team; Wikipedia doesn't specify which is the lyricist, so :shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_of_Gold_(Freda_Payne_song)

The lyrics seem to indicate that he never even kissed her before the altar.

I'm curious, has anyone ever heard BoG performed by a male, which would put an entirely new spin on it?
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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
40. 1 line in Greenday's Good Riddance
Dead skin on trial.

Tatoos and memories and dead skin on trial

WTF does that mean.
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. This one:


...


When you dance, you're charming and you're gentle
Specially when you do the Continental
But this feeling isn't purely mental
For heaven rest us, I'm not asbestos
And that's why I won't dance, why should I? ...



I am not asbestos??? WTF?!?


Guess they had guys writing songs on crack back in the day, too. Who knew?



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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Is that "I Won't Dance, Don't Ask Me" as in the Fred Astaire movie?
If so, I'd guess drugs were involved, but crack wouldn't be it.

No matter--that doesn't make any sense in terms of that stanza?!
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Yep, that's the one. Good call!





It doesn't make sense in that stanza OR in relation to the rest of the lyrics, in my opinion: "I am not asbestos." Oooh-kaaay. It's just so bizarre. I don't get it.



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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. I would assume the lyric means that the singer is not resistant to flame...
in other words, not resistant to the charms of the person with whom she's dancing; if she dances, she might catch fire, as it were. (Or "he," in the case of Frank Sinatra.)
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Hey, I'll bet you're right!



Or, write. Heh.


Thanks, that makes sense!


:hi:


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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. Aha--that explains it well. nt
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
59. What the hell is Let's Active's Waters Part about?
I've always really liked that song but I have no clue what it's about. Maybe it's an example of how gibberish lyrics can sound really good if combined with great music. Or maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it.

Can any 80s indie music aficionados help me out?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
60. Procol Harum's, 'Whiter Shade of Pale'
Procol Harum's, 'Whiter Shade of Pale'

It means nothing? It means everything? I just don't know, and I just don't get the lyrics... :banghead:
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