Just for the record, I don't give a shit about Anna Nicole Smith dead or alive.

[Rabrrrrrr]

Didn't give a shit when she was alive, except that I thought she was a talentless, sad little shrew.

Don't give a shit now that she's dead, except that, barring the immediate media feeding frenzy, I'll never have to hear about her bullshit any more and she'll be gone from the news.

I'm sad she died, like I'm sad when almost anyone dies - she's leaving loved ones behind, as well as a daughter.

But ultimately, I just can't work up enough energy to give a shit, other than small happiness that after a week or two, we'll never hear about her again - at least not until her daughter turns 16 or 18 and either gets thrown in jail for substance abuse, or chooses a college to attend, or gets some ludicrous movie deal.

And no, this isn't pissing on the grave of a dead person - it's just me stating the truth, because there is nothing sacred about a dead person, any more than they were sacred when alive. If they were criticizable when alive, and everyone is (except Neil Peart, David Gilmour, and Rachael Ray's breasts) they are equally criticizable when dead.

Geez. It's just a dead person.

I also find it funny that so many who claim no religion, and claim there is no afterlife, are some of those who have their underwear so goddamned wound up about speaking ill of the dead that I swear it's wrapped around their necks.

If we're gonna play this immature "can't speak ill of the dead" game, then where do we draw the line? Anna Nicole? Can we criticize Milosevic? Hitler? Dubya when he dies? Vlad the Impaler? Ken Lay? Cheney? We criticize dead people all the time here - why are people concerned with criticizing immediately after death? What's the spiritual thingy that happens that makes it so bad to do so right after death? What do you fear? If you are so afraid to speak ill of the dead, why speak ill of Jesus, or Prescott Bush, or Nixon?

[mainegreen]

1. POPCORN time!

:P :popcorn:

[Deja Q]

2. Bingo.

[KG]

3. her life and death are a sad commentary on modern american society.

[Shell Beau]

4. I think we are just fascinated with celebrities (like they

are somehow untouchable). I am sad for her family and that she must have died in despair. I held her a little closer to my heart after her son died. When my brother died, I saw my mom go through that despair. Only living for her other children. It is sad. I am sad she couldn't hang on for her other child. I know she must have tried.

[Karenina]

5. Seems you worked enough energy to...

[Rabrrrrrr]

Mostly I worked up the energy to dispel this idiotic "can't speak ill of the dead" bullshit myth

that is making the rounds here today, and every time someone of fame dies - all the loonies come out of the woodwork with their "can't speak ill of the dead" crap.

[Karenina]

26. Still worked up sumpin' awful

for someone who doesn't care. :shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. Don't care about her, no; I care about the nonsense of "can't speak ill of the dead"

that I see here on DU every time someone famous dies.

That's what I'm worked up about. I never said I was not worked up at all, about anything, ever.

I find the idea of "can't speak ill of the dead" to be immensely psyhologically damaging and harmful to people - I've seen it too much with, for example, people who had abusive parents but even after the parents died, they were never given permission to hate them, to call them bad parents, to tell the truth. I see way too much of buying into that unhealthy mythology, and it irritates the hell out of me.

[Karenina]

38. Personal issues?

:shrug:

[L A Woman]

6. you shoot a hole into the theory that...

democrats are compassionate than republicans.

thanks.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. How?

Do you ever criticize Nixon or Reagan? They're dead.

[L A Woman]

15. No.

I danced on the graves of neither Nixon nor Reagan. It's a natural compassion I have for those left behind; the Pat Nixons, the Ron Reagan Jrs....etc...those are the people we are supposed to have respect for. The dead person is gone. This isn't about religion - it's about the people who loved her who are left behind.

I met Anna Nicole in 2005 in West Hollywood. She was bartending to raise money - it was Gay Pride Weekend. She was a NICE person.

[ronnykmarshall]

17. Oh my god!

I remember that!

We only just do the parade ... and we saw her (and in 2002) .... I heard about her bartending and everyone said what a sweetheart she was.

I wish I could have met her. But seeing her in the parade was wonderful.

I'll miss her!

:cry:

[Rabrrrrrr]

18. So you have never said a bad word about Reagan or Nixon since they died?

If so, I applaud your incredibly high moral stance.

If you have critized them, you are no different than others who are criticizing Anna Nicole today, except that maybe you waited longer after the death. If so, then the only question at hand isn't whether or not to criticize, but when.

To me, there is no "free zone" of time. For you, perhaps, there is. But I find no theological, moral, or ethical reason to desist from criticizing the dead just because they died recently.

[L A Woman]

44. but there IS a difference...

it's like asking me if i pee. well, yes, i DO pee. but i don't pee at the dinner table. there is a time and a place for things. intelligent, civilized people know when to behave a certain way and when to restrain themselves.

[ronnykmarshall]

8. How niiiiiiiiccce!

[Shell Beau]

10. You can just copy and paste that for the rest of the night it seems!!

:cry:

[mainegreen]

20. -

[BlueJazz]

9. You pretty much echo my thoughts on this subject. n/t

[SPKrazy]

11. ...

:popcorn:


not nice

[bleedingheart]

12. one of the guys i work with came into a meeting to announce this

and all the people at the table...(instead of focusing on the work we get paid to do...) were talking about "what could have killed her?" and "What kind of drugs was she on?"

My one coworker got fed up and said..."I heard she was taking TrimSpa...I bet that did it...and now let us get back to work"..

[Shell Beau]

13. I bet that Trimspa didn't help!

[bleedingheart]

16. and I bet Trimspa is hoping it isn't some diet related heart attack

it could be a number of things...


1. drugs
2. cardiomyopathy brought on by her recent childbirth
3. aneurysm
..anything

the one to feel bad for is that tiny little baby and the legal battles that will pursue that child and the money the mother left behind.

[Left Is Write]

21. I wonder how much her devastation over Daniel's death played into it.

[bleedingheart]

27. could be anything

I just wonder where that poor baby girl is and I hope her life doesn't turn into a media circus.

[Rabrrrrrr]

28. I wondered that, too.

Also wondered if it is related to whatever killed her son, as in, perhaps, some tinfoil hat conspiracy.

Not out of the question for someone with as much fame and money as she.

[Shell Beau]

25. And that she is now motherless!

[bleedingheart]

31. that poor kid...and the circus will continue...

between Stern and that other guy who is claiming paternity...

That little baby needs someone who will be smart enough to keep her out of the limelight and just love her.

[RetroLounge]

14. So Anna Nicole and Milosevic Caused the same harm?

How niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...

:eyes:

RL

[ronnykmarshall]

19. You got that right!

:yourock:

[RetroLounge]

23. You remember when Milosevic bartended at Gay Pride?

What a guy he was... Raising money like that...

:eyes:

Unbelievable...

Check your PM...

RL

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. No, I'm asking where do we draw the line between the untouchable and the touchable.

I draw the line at what I will call "zero" - which is to say, everyone is on the side of being criticizable after death, because everyone is criticizable during life. Nothing so sacred about a dead person that we can't point out faults, or even find joy in their death (though for the record, I find no joy in Anna's, as I did in Reagan's).

Others will draw that line somewhere else, maybe at "1", at which Mother Theresa and Gandhi and MLK, Jr. are untouchable, but everyone else is touchable.

Others, maybe, draw it at let's say "10,000" where only the Hitlers, Milosevics, and Pol Pots are in the unprotected zone.

I'm curious where those who say "can't criticize the dead" draw the line.

[RetroLounge]

29. There's no point in explaining compassion to someone

who has none...

Would you walk up to her husband, or her daughter, and tell them you do not give a shit about their dead loved one, to their face?

or are you only such a hard-ass behind the keyboard?

She only died HOURS ago.

RL

[Rabrrrrrr]

33. Of course I wouldn't - that would be insensitive.

Nor would I stand up at a funeral and deliver it.

But in privacy, and with others, I sure as hell will; and have done so with family members about dead family members including both of my parents. Why lie? There were bad things about my parents - thankfully, far more good things, but a few very bad things they did. I refuse to be silent about them; and I refuse to silence anyone from speaking their truth in appropriate ways and places. This forum is a very appropriate place for it, because her family surely aren't reading here, and even if they were, I can't imagine that they would what any of us think.

I can't believe you tell me that I have no compassion. What an amazingly broadbrushed thing to say.

[Shell Beau]

35. I think you are a very compassionate person, but

speaking ill of say Hitler is one thing, but ANS's death was somewhat shocking and sad because of all of the circumstances. Yes, this happens every day, but we don't hear about it on such a wide scale. And I honestly pray for everyone. I even prayed for Saddam Hussein. I prayed for God to have mercy on his soul. Just because as awful as he was, he was a person. Maybe I am stupid, maybe I am naive, but that is just me.

[Ann Arbor Dem]

41. you said a mouthful

:thumbsup:

[flvegan]

22. Don't give a shit, yet feel the need to post about it.

How...for the record.

[Deja Q]

30. I think he did solely because too many post from the other two perspectives,

and render the "I don't care attitude" cloaked.

it's like saying how Jim Manicraw or whomever also died and nobody cared about him...

[Rabrrrrrr]

34. No, I'm posting about the idiocy of making dead people so sacred they can't be criticized

[flvegan]

36. No, you danced on her grave like many others.

"Didn't give a shit when she was alive, except that I thought she was a talentless, sad little shrew.

Don't give a shit now that she's dead, except that, barring the immediate media feeding frenzy, I'll never have to hear about her bullshit any more and she'll be gone from the news."

Sounds more like vocalizing opinion on a person than on those vocalizing an opinion on a person.

[Mojambo]

37. It needed to be said.

And I'm ashamed to admit that I was too chicken shit to say it.

Good for you.

And this concludes the last time I'll ever think about Anna Nicole Smith.

Not including any accidental E! True Hollywood Story exposure.

[Radio_Lady]

39. Rabrrrrrr, Rabrrrrrr, did you post when the Terri Schiavo fiasco was going on?

As a weathered broadcaster, I told everyone at the time -- these small stories burn like supernovas for a few days or weeks, and then pretty much burn out.

There's not much you can do except step aside and watch the show. All-day-all-night Anna Nicole Smith on TV tonight, just like other celebrity news.

Just walk away and don't waste your time if you don't want to.

RIP, Anna Nicole.

[Shakespeare]

40. It's oversimplifying to say it's just a matter of "don't speak ill of the dead"

Here's the way these things usually go on DU: somebody famous dies, a few people post threads saying, "oh, how sad." If it were just left at that, the threads would fall quickly off the page after people said their piece. But it is such an ugly, jarring afront to have the words no quicker out of your mouth (or off your keyboard) and some asshole starts up with the "oh, he/she was a worthless human being," or "what'd they do for society," or "she only got by on her looks," or "she was just trash." Or my personal favorite, the suggestion that we're somehow incapable of simultaneously maintaining our political focus while commenting on the sad passing of some celebrity.

What that puts out there in undiluted form is ugliness that I really hate to see on this site. It's an excuse for people to wallow in sexism, classism, and often homophobia. Yes, ANS was poor white trash from Mexia, Texas. She was uneducated, unsophisticated, and utterly unprepared for what fame brought her. She was beautiful, and flawed, and probably not terribly deep. But I can see no way to justify some of the outright viciousness I've seen here today. She's a bitch, a slut, a golddigger, a drug addict. Gee, way to pass judgment, folks--and in this specific case, there's more than just a slight whiff of sexism.

Yes, it's fine it you think the media overblows it--I happen to agree. But to use the occasion of someone's death to trot out your (collectively speaking) own issues that need to be dealt with (see: sexism, classism, homophobia) is just kinda sick.

By all accounts the woman didn't have a mean bone in her body, she was an advocate for gay rights, and an effective PETA spokesperson. So, no, she didn't live a "worthless" life. She was also iconic and tragic in a way that should make the outpouring of comments here instantly understandable. There's something we can't resist about a beautiful, fucked-up girl who can never find happiness, and then to have her life end prematurely just compounds the tragedy. It's human nature to be fascinated by that.

It's not the speaking ill of the dead that's so offensive; it's the ugly little reasons why some choose to speak ill that I find so disturbing.

[ForrestGump]

42. Perfect

Thank you. :hug:

Anna Nicole was basically a good person. Some of the stuff I've seen in my brief foray here this evening has utterly disgusted me and, just as with the Steve Irwin wars, there're at least a couple of DU usernames that I never really paid particular attention to before that're now burned on my consciousness. F***ers. The political Left has its share of detritivores and coprophages, too, and DU provides maple proof of that.

[Shakespeare]

45. Thank you.

It's been a .....discouraging....day here. :hug:

[Bryn]

43. Thank You

Anna Nicole was all-human woman, just being herself. Being big and beautiful, she was a rare Viking warrior. That is how I saw her. I was rooting for her for standing up to assholes. She was a woman of great courage. Thank you for your post. :hug: