Hoo boy. Parenting conundrum.

[LaraMN]

I don't know quite what to do.
My husband is a self-proclaimed "non-denominational Christian," and I'm Agnostic (although I probably have significant Atheist leanings.)

For the last several weeks, I have (with significant reservations) allowed my MIL to take my nine and five-year-old kiddos to her church "kid's night."

They do crafts and games, and obviously have some discussion of their religious beliefs.

My husband really wanted them to go, and the kids seem to enjoy the activities. I do want my kids to be exposed to and informed of my husband's beliefs (and those of the majority of Americans,) but I feel as though this setting is one of indoctrination.

My son has started asking me about God, Jesus, and Hell, and almost seems fearful.
I always present information with the disclaimer that various ideas are "what SOME people believe," and I share my beliefs, but I'm concerned about the influence of the church.

I do not want my young children to have concerns about sin, hell, and damnation; frankly, I consider these ideas to be terroristic brainwashing.

I want them, though, to understand the beliefs of Christianity and their origins.

I am so torn about whether to allow them to keep attending the church group and to address what they're hearing, from my perspective, or to remove them, for fear that they might be somehow damaged or persuaded to believe ideas, out of fear.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Sounds like they need a better church.

If the church people there are talking about sin, hell, and damnation at FUCKING KIDS' NIGHT, they're insane.

How bizarre. Is it a Pentecostal Church? Catholic? Non-denominational Bible Church?

[LaraMN]

4. Non denominational, but I have my reservations.

This is the same church that (under different leadership, about 12 years ago,) made a monumental stink about our High School Respect Day (a day of optional sessions for students) including a session on respect for homosexuals.

[Pithlet]

18. That would be the deciding factor for me.

I agree with you. I think finding another church would be a good compromise. I feel very much like you do. I want my children to learn about other beliefs and have an open mind, but I don't want them indoctrinated, and I would be very suspicious of a church that raised a stink on an issue like that.

[Rambis]

5. tough one

We are trying to decide what to do with our 6 year old who comes home from school saying things like...
"that is how god made me"
We are talking about sending him to bible school just to get him the basics of right and wrong etc. The basic church views but we don't want him to get all religious on us:)
We think we have found a church because I over heard the minister say that he was not religious but he believes that people should treat each other in a respectful way etc etc and the bible has allegories for that which are helpful or useful to kids.
Good luck!

[LaraMN]

8. Precisely. I share many of the values of the church in terms of kindness,

empathy, and pacifism, but there is a definite *other* element of belief that I find quite opposite in nature.
This stuff is tough to sort out.

[LostinVA]

2. How about taking them to a United Church of Christ?

Or even a Unitarian Church "Sunday school"? That way, they'll learn the basics of Christianity in a very liberal, tolerant, open setting.

I don't know exactly where in MN you live, but I'd go to both denominations websites and try to find a congregation. I know Pacifist Patriot is a UU minister and MyCritters2 is a UCC minister. Maybe they can help.

Hell, etc. scared me to death when I was a kid -- thank god my Mom was a pediatric nurse and a most unnutty Catholic.

[LaraMN]

6. I should see if there are any around here.

My Mom is a "recovering Catholic," (by her own assertion)and is rabidly opposed to instilling fear in children re: hell and damnation. She's non-religious, has been for decades, and still professes some degree of feelings of "guilt," as a result of her indoctrination as a child. That's exactly what I'm afraid of, in part.

[LostinVA]

7. Here you go

http://www.uua.org/aboutus/findcongregation/index.shtml

http://www.ucc.org/find/index2.html

[LaraMN]

9. Hey! Thanks!

I'll check those out asap!

[LostinVA]

12. You're welcome

And, I would PM Pacifist Patriot, too. She's a good egg.

[grace0418]

17. I so understand where your mom is coming from. Guilt is such a part of the fabric

of my dna that I find it impossible to completely erase. Children should be taught right from wrong because they want to be good people, not because they are afraid of going to hell or ashamed of their very thoughts and feelings.

If my husband and I had children, we would be very much in the same place. We were both raised Catholic and he is still searching for a church. I don't feel the necessity. His parents are uber/nutty-Catholic and I know they will make life very difficult when we have a child. It is one of my big hesitations for having children, I don't want them indoctrinated in the kind of superstitions, bigotted, off-the-rails Catholicism his parents practice. I don't even want them baptized because I don't want to be making any promises about their future religious education. I may lose that battle though.

[Arugula Latte]

3. They've been exposed to it ... Okay. Enough's enough.

I know you have/had good intentions, but I wouldn't want my kids exposed to that ridiulous dogma anymore.

:hi:

[LaraMN]

10. But how do I address my husband's opposition to pulling them from the activities?

I think he'll feel that I'm trying to negate his influence.

[Arugula Latte]

13. Hmm...Well I guess if he'll go for a Unitarian Church type compromise

that would be good ...

Other than that, I'm not sure. (My husband is just as disdainful of organized religion as I am ...)

[skygazer]

14. What about your influence?

Which you feel is being compromised by this setting? If you can offer an alternative venue that offers a grounding in the ideas you both value, it seems reasonable to me. And I'd frame it that way if he was hesitant.

[skygazer]

11. I went to sunday school for most of my childhood years

I honestly don't remember a whole lot about religion from it all - the kids were more focused on playing with each other and getting in trouble (it was an Episcopal church).

Even as a kid, what I did learn about religious beliefs seemed incredibly hokey to me - it was easier to believe the saturday morning cartoons. Which is why I really don't believe in god but I do respect other people's beliefs.

My kids didn't go to church when they were young. Both my husbands were lapsed Catholics and neither cared much about sending them. I taught them at home about as many different beliefs as I could find and we discussed them as cultural beliefs - some people believe this, some believe that. I never discussed what I personally believed, not when they were little - it was more like story time. I also discussed the fact that many people don't believe in a god or gods.

All three of my kids ended up having some kind of spiritual belief. My son has loose christian beliefs but doesn't attend church. He just believes in christ as the son of god and believes in god. My middle daughter has more broad beliefs, encompassing a number of different ideas and my oldest daughter considers herself a catholic.

I feel like I gave them a fair presentation and allowed them to choose what is after all a pretty important factor of a person's life. I personally would cut out the church if your husband will agree and just concentrate on exposing them to many ways of belief (or unbelief) and let them make their own choice.

[LaraMN]

15. I really wish we could do the "educating" ourselves,

but my husband doesn't do a whole lot to share his beliefs; I think that's why he liked the idea of them attending the church group.

I really, strongly want them to have a balanced and informed perspective on religions and alternative belief systems, so they can ultimately make their own choices and be comfortable with them.

Thanks for sharing your experiences; it's good to know how things have worked for other people and their families.

[Midlodemocrat]

16. If I were you, and mind you, I'm a practicing Catholic,

I would look for a children's book about Jesus. Just Jesus and his teachings and tell the kids that all that other stuff doesn't matter anymore because of all the good Jesus did.

[LaraMN]

19. I've been looking, but have had little luck finding a good one

that is informative without being preachy.
I'll keep looking.

[huskerlaw]

20. The Episcopal church might be another option

http://www.episcopalmn.org/churches

I have attended one here in LA and it's fabulously liberal. No preachy crap, and lots of active groups engaged in liberal causes...GLBT, Darfur, anti-war, etc...and they often have speakers like Al Gore and John Edwards.

However, there's a huge division in the Episcopal church right now, so do your homework...not all of them are so liberal. ;)