Left Lane Drivers Unite!

[Swede]

Seems like a good idea.

http://www.leftlanedrivers.org/

[Pithlet]

1. It's a good idea if all you ever do is drive in the left lane.

But it's going to look pretty stupid when you're driving in the right hand lane down a side street, assuming this is even for real. Besides, the left lane is for passing, and as long as the driver is actually passing someone, I don't get all that upset about it if they aren't going as fast as I think they should. These stickers will mostly identify the people who think left lane = Autobahn. I hate pokey people who stay in the left lane, but I hate the aggressive assholes who get up on my rear end when I'm passing someone because I'm not doing 100 mph even more, and then flash their lights at me because I didn't get right back into the right lane and cut off the person I was passing. Slow drivers are annoying, but I think this left lane mentality creates more of those aggressive assholes who think they're entitled to go as fast as they want to in the left lane no matter the traffic conditions. In fact, just today, I was nearly hit by a jerk who got pissy and aggressive with a slow left lane driver and cut me off trying to pass him on the right. He was so busy making gestures at the slow left lane driver that he wasn't paying attention.

[kwassa]

2. What you said is a good argument for slow drivers to stay right

In fact, just today, I was nearly hit by a jerk who got pissy and aggressive with a slow left lane driver and cut me off trying to pass him on the right. He was so busy making gestures at the slow left lane driver that he wasn't paying attention.

Why was the slow driver in the left lane to begin with?

Many states have "keep right" laws, unfortunately mine doesn't, and slow drivers in the left lane can ruin the efficient flow of traffic in busy areas like this, and often do.

here is a list of states with these laws:
http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html

The Uniform Vehicle Code states:

Upon all roadways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic ...

Note that this law refers to the "normal" speed of traffic, not the "legal" speed of traffic. The 60 MPH driver in a 55 MPH zone where everybody else is going 65 MPH must move right. Contrast Alaska's rule, 13 AAC 002.50, allowing vehicles driving at the speed limit to use the left lane, and Colorado rev. stat. 42-4-1103, prohibiting blocking the "normal and reasonable" movement of traffic

[Pithlet]

4. What I said is a good argument to not get aggressive while driving.

If he had hit me, it would have been his fault and his fault alone. I occasionally get stuck behind people in the left lane too (although since I only use it as a passing lane, and not as a speeding lane, I don't encounter it too often) and it is aggravating, but I don't flip out and start driving recklessly as if that lane belonged to me and me alone. The driver who almost hit me is more dangerous than the idiot cruising in the left hand lane, and is just as disruptive to the efficient flow of traffic. I had to slam on my brakes, causing the person behind me to do the same, causing a chain reaction that probably nearly caused several more accidents. And all of that was 100% his fault. Bottom line is, if both the speeders and the slowpokes knew what the passing lane was for, there wouldn't be a problem. I'm all for the "keep right" laws and think every state should have them. I just have a feeling a lot of the people who think this is a good idea don't know what that lane is for either, like the jerk who almost hit me today.

[kwassa]

5. It gets into a chicken vs. the egg argument

This guy in your example was driving aggressively in a dangerous way. He should have been pulled over and ticketed.

But what exactly is aggressive driving? How do you define it?

In this state, and in fact the entire mid-Atlantic region, it is common for people to drive slowly in the left lane of the freeway. The consequence is that people who wish to pass HAVE to pass on the right, or remain trapped behind the slow driver. These pass-on-the-right drivers get tagged with the moniker "aggressive driver" for not simply and passively staying behind the person blocking traffic. Passing on the right is legal, of course, and usually necessary.

Is passing on the right aggressive driving?

[jpgray]

7. If the person on the left is passing someone, it is aggressive

The extra ten seconds will hardly make or break you. Then, once the passing car is well clear of the passed car, if slow-mo continues to ride the left lane for no reason, it's okay to pass him.

[kwassa]

8. The problem is that they aren't passing at all

They can drive side-by-side with the car in the lane next to them for miles.

I've seen freeways blocked with four cars essentially riding side-by-side.

[jpgray]

9. Then how can you pass on the right?

[kwassa]

13. Go over three or four lanes to get around them.

Happens all too often.

[Pithlet]

11. No, it doesn't.

My whole point is, if someone is using the left lane as their own personal lane to go however fast or slow they want to because it's the fun lane with less traffic, then they are using the lane incorrectly. I used an aggressive driver as an example, but it isn't even a question of aggressiveness but rather entitlement. My point is that many of the people who are on the faster side of that spectrum think they're in the right because the left lane is the "fast" lane. They are the ones who will rant at anyone in front of them who makes them have to slow down, regardless of whether that person in front is using the lane correctly, and insist they should just pull on over and get out of their way safety be damned. If the other drivers don't immediately make like the Red Sea, the blood pressure goes up. I think they're exactly the market for the stickers mentioned in the OP, and I see far more of them then I do the slow left lane drivers. I've been in the passenger seat with them while they're driving, too, because I know a lot of people like this, and when I'm not fearing for my safety, I'm mildly amused. I think if a person routinely finds themselves stewing behind a driver in the left lane, they might be using the left lane incorrectly themselves. When it happens to me, it's usually because I'm in a hurry and driving faster than I normally do. In my experience, the slow left lane drivers tend to be more prevalent in rural areas, and usually it's just a matter of carefully passing them on the right.

[kwassa]

15. Come visit your nation's capital

In my experience, the slow left lane drivers tend to be more prevalent in rural areas, and usually it's just a matter of carefully passing them on the right.

Hah!

Let me introduce you to the Beltway around Washington, D.C., and the various interstates that feed into it. It is also endemic to this entire region. Nothing to do with rural life at all. The traffic here is second only to Los Angeles, where I lived and drove for 17 years, and where this behavior would draw an extremely aggressive response. A completely different driving culture.

[Pithlet]

19. I lived in the DC area for seven years.

I've driven the Beltway countless times. I've lived many different places with all kinds of traffic and various lengths of commute. I'm not some clueless driving newbie who's never left ruralhamletsburg. Look, I'm not saying that there's never a justified moment of anger when you're stuck behind someone in the left lane. I'm not saying it never, ever happens, and that the person in front is always in the right. I'm saying is that the left lane is for passing. It isn't for cruising along at 10 under the speed limit, or for speeding as fast as you want and everyone else is obligated to get out of the way. I think often as not the person in front of angry left lane driver had a right to be in that lane because they were passing slower traffic, too. I'm definitely not saying it's never justified to get irritated at the slow poke in the left lane when they're blocking traffic flow, I just think the left lane speeders who get mad at anyone who happens to be in their way are just as annoying and potentially dangerous as the slow left lane drivers, and are just as plentiful, and do just as much to disrupt traffic flow.

[tigereye]

29. FWIW I agree with you completely

I despise folks who go too slow in the fast lane and refuse to get in the right lane, but I despise even more the folks who are about to mow everyone else down who is going a reasonable speed in either lane, and think it's ok for them to go 80, 90 or worse!

:grr:

[datasuspect]

3. big up hammer lane drivers!!!!!

i got 10 on the floor and i'm stroking bore.

[jpgray]

6. Nah. If you're not passing and traffic is relatively light, stay in the right lane

If you are passing, and someone is coming up behind you at great speed in the left lane, accelerate a little while passing. But -don't- go more than ten over when doing the latter, especially when driving through Nebraska, and most especially when the headlights of the speed demon in your rearview resemble those of a Crown Vic.

[Xithras]

10. Not in California

California has another law on the books that eliminates the "passing lane" designation, which according to judges nullifies the intent of California's Keep Right law. Legally, in California, all lanes are "driving lanes", unless specifically posted. This was actually done to eliminate police abuse. Apparently, back in the 1970's, certain California police departments used to enhance their funding by hitting the fast lane at rush hour. They'd randomly ticket people stuck in the fast lane at traffic jams, making the argument that the fast lane should be EMPTY when traffic is at a standstill. The legislature changed the law to eliminate the abuse.

Supposedly, not one left-lane driving ticket has stood up in court since. California police officers don't bother writing tickets for laws with no enforcement provisions, so unless you're creating an imminent traffic hazard they will NEVER ticket you. Never.

I'm a left lane driver, and I don't really care if I irritate people who think it's their god-given right to drive 100MPH in the fast lane. I cruise along at 80, and I don't budge. If you want around me, move to the right and pass. If you whine about the danger, I'm just going to say "GOOD". Maybe you'll lose control and kill yourself trying to pass me. I have little sympathy or compassion for those who are willing to put the lives of everyone else on the highway at risk just because they're in a hurry (their problem, nobody elses). A number of years back I actually had some asshole ride up on by back bumperand start flashing his lights at me. I sped up a hair to put some distance between us, and slammed on my brakes. Bastard went into the grassy median trying to avoid me. At 80+MPH, I'm sure his repair bill wasn't cheap.

I'm generally a pretty tolerant guy, but there are certain things that I have little patience and tolerance for. People who insist on driving their SUV's down the highway, in the left lane, at 100+ miles an hour are one of them. It's my highway too, and I'll stick to 80. Luckily, California law doesn't seem to disagree with me.

[jpgray]

12. What is it about driving that makes people wish the violent death of others?

[datasuspect]

14. the primal urge to haul ass is no respecter of public safety

[tigereye]

31. let me know when you figure it out, JP

it's really scary how perfectly kind and sane people turn into the beastmaster when they get behind the wheel!

probably some kind of lizard brain/ "this giant carapace will protect me" deal, the same reason that people buy Hummers! :rofl:

[Rude Horner]

16. People like you drive me nuts

People who sit in the left hand lane. And I have very little patience and tolerance for it. I don't care how fast you're going. Moving to the right hand lane if you're not passing - it's called courtesy. You're right - all lanes of traffic are driving lanes, but you could be courteous to other drivers. It's pretty obnoxious for you to think that just because YOU have determined that 80 mph is the proper speed for that stretch of highway, others should feel the same way.

I drive a 40 mile stretch of highway to and from work everyday. The speed limit is 65 mph. I'm usually one of the faster drivers out there, but when I'm not passing, I move over to the right hand lane.

Next time you're obstructing traffic, think of how you'd feel if you had an emergency that you had to get to the hospital for and some guy was blocking the passing lane.

[Xithras]

21. Why can't you move to the right?

Passing on the right is also legal in California on multi-lane highways. HMMM?

When two vehicles occupying the same lane meet at different velocities, one of them is going to have to change lanes. Why should it be me? Why not you?

"Courtesy" is not driving 100MPH and putting everyone else on the highway at needless risk.

[Pithlet]

25. Passing on the right is more dangerous than passing on the left

Because of blind spots. That's why its proper for the slower car to move to the right to allow the faster car to pass to the left. It's also the law in many places.

[Xithras]

27. In what way?

Cars generally have equally large blind spots on both sides of the vehicle, so I fail to see how the danger could be any larger on one side than the other.

On the other hand, any time you change lanes in a vehicle, you're creating a possible situation where one vehicle could strike another in its blind spot. When a speeding vehicle makes a slower one yield, the speeding vehicle is putting the driver of the slower vehicle in danger by forcing them to assume this risk. On the other hand, if a speeding vehicle has to make the lane change himself, he is simply assuming a risk created by his decision to travel at his chosen velocity.

Either way, there is a risk of collision. The question is simply whether the fast or slow car should be forced to assume it.

On edit: And yes, I know that the law limits this in many places. I can only speak to California, since this is where 99.5% of my driving experience originates.

[Pithlet]

28. The blind spots are not equal on both sides.

It is significantly riskier to pass on the right than it is to pass on the left, which is why there are sometimes laws against it. Besides, the slower car wouldn't have to yield in the first place if they weren't in the left hand lane to begin with, and if the slower vehicle isn't actively passing another even slower vehicle, they shouldn't be in that lane. The fact that the blind spots are worse on the right are the whole reason why the left lane is the passing lane. Yes, passing a vehicle on either side is assuming a risk, which is why it's better to stay in the same lane as much as possible. It's why I rarely pass unless the vehicle is going significantly slower than I am. It's also why I don't drive in the left hand lane unless I'm passing someone. Hogging the left passing lane creates more instances where people will have to pass, which is why you aren't supposed to do it.

Edited to clarify that I don't think passing on the right is so dangerous it should never be done. I've passed people on the right with no problem. I'm just explaining why the left lane passing dynamic exists.

[Rude Horner]

32. I can, and do pass on the right when I have to. No problem.

But you say you like to do 80 mph in the left hand lane. Let's say you're on a two lane highway and there are cars in the left and right hand lane, both doing the exact same speed - let's say 60 mph. And they're both just sitting there - side by side - for miles. And you want to go you're usual 80 mph. So you're sitting there, stuck behind them. Irritating? Damn straight. And I put the sole blame on the person in the left hand lane. I was taught, early on, that it's just common courtesy to move into the right hand lane unless passing.

Personally, it sounds to me like you enjoy the attitude that comes along with being stubborn and sitting in the left hand lane. I sensed a little pleasure in that attitude of "Why should I change lanes and not you?"

"Courtesy" is not hogging the left hand lane and making people behind you get so frustrated that they take unnecessary risks to pass you.

[DS1]

17. Classic asshole driving

[Xithras]

22. Who? Him? I agree, the headlights were way over the top.

I forgot to mention the horn honking.

When someone decides to play King Of The Lane, don't feel bad for them when they get knocked down. I'll bet that twit never did that to anyone else. The right lanes were clear. He could have moved over safely, gone around me, and been done with it. Instead, he chose to get right up on my back bumper and start flashing his lights and horn at me. He started the confrontation, not me.

I never look for confrontations, but I'm not really one to back down when someone brings one to me either. He had no more legal claim to that lane than I did, so his behavior was totally out of bounds. He got checked. No biggie.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xithras]

26. Disagree. It's the speeders who are being self-centered.

I've never understood the mentality of those who believe that they have a god-given right to cruise down the freeway at 100MPH, and that the entire freeway must yield to accommodate their chosen speed. I believe that all drivers, as citizens, are equal. We all have the right to travel how we want, how fast we want, where we want, so long as our actions aren't impacting other people. Left lane warriors seem to believe that the entire roadway must yield to THEIR chosen speed, and that other drivers must disrupt their own drives to accommodate THEIR lane choices.

Roadway imperialism, that's what it is.

If you can drive down a freeway at 100MPH, more power to you. Your right to do that ends, however, when you have to force everyone else on the freeway out of your way to do it. Clearing the inside lane simply congests the outside lane further, slowing traffic overall. All lanes should be used to convey traffic, because that is the most efficient way to move cars down the road. Reserving "speeding lanes" for a certain minority of drivers simply slows everyone else down to mollify a group that should be getting fines, not protections.

Of course, I also advocate jail time for people who are caught exceeding the speed limit by 20MPH or more, so I may be somewhat of an extremist on this subject.

[kwassa]

18. Who are you to set the left lane speed at 80?

and why will you not budge?

That is self-centered rudeness, in my book. You have set an arbitrary standard that is yours, and yours alone, and block others who wish to move at different speeds, like 81. While 80 is quite a fast speed, you really don't have the right to block others.

A number of years back I actually had some asshole ride up on by back bumperand start flashing his lights at me. I sped up a hair to put some distance between us, and slammed on my brakes. Bastard went into the grassy median trying to avoid me. At 80+MPH, I'm sure his repair bill wasn't cheap.

As far as I am concerned, he was right, and you were wrong, and you should have been pulled over and ticketed. You created an incredibly dangerous situation that could have resulted in a serious accident and/or injuries.

[Pithlet]

20. I agree with you, here.

100%.

[Xithras]

24. Fast drivers are like cigarette smokers.

They want everyone else to accommodate their crappy and unhealthy habit, and insist on engaging in their reckless behavior in areas full of innocent people who can be injured or killed by their vices. When you insist that THEY make concessions for THEIR habit, they claim that we have no right to tell them what to do or to get in their way.

In California, cars kill more people every year than cigarettes.

You want to speed? Fine. I don't care. When you come up on slower traffic, YOU move over. Pass in the center lane. Pass on the right. You've already shown that you place no value on the lives of others, and have no respect for the traffic safety laws that actually exist, so just go around. That way, the increased danger is to YOU, and not to those who are being forced to move out of your way to accommodate your speeding habit.

I cruise at 80, and occasionally come across some slowpoke puttering down the left lane at 65 or 70. Do I gnash my teeth, curse their mothers, flash my lights, or flip them off? No, because I understand that it's their right. I just move over and go around them. No stress, no frustration, and no hassles. I don't even have to slow down.

Why is it that so many speeders seem to believe that it's the SLOWER people that should have to yield? Why shouldn't the speeders yield?

[TK421]

30. Why the fuck do people speed anyway? I'm willing to bet that most of these

fuckers are in a hurry to go nowhere, or they overslept and are rushing like mad to get to work. I could probably be called a slower driver in most cases....but I'll stay in the right lane; and when I do get an asshole on my bumper I WILL slam on my brakes and their insurance WILL pay for my damages and their rates WILL go through the roof.

I don't understand why someone feels the need to drive 100mph unless, of course they are rushing to a hospital to save someone's life, and those people are called DOCTORS. To the rest of you who are not in the business of saving lives....what the fuck is your excuse? Someone could be seriously injured because of your psychotic behavior and let me tell you....if it was a member of my family who got hurt, I wouldn't rest until you were behind bars.

DO YOU HEAR ME, SPEEDER-FUCKS? I've already had a close friend of mine paralyzed from the neck down because some ASSHOLE woke up one morning and decided that he would cut someone off at 100mph ( or something like that )but little did he realize that there was ANOTHER vehicle in front of my friend's car traveling over the far lane.Yeah....that IS pretty stupid isn't it?

[pokerfan]

33. Agreed. Rude and reckless.

You have set an arbitrary standard that is yours, and yours alone, and block others who wish to move at different speeds, like 81.

"Have you ever noticed, when you're driving, that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a *maniac?"
-George Carlin