Weigh in on this dog park situation

[undeterred]

Two dogs and their owners are at the dog park. Dogs are meeting, both are off leash. Dog B shows aggression and growling towards Dog A. Person A says to Person B "was that your dog?" and pulls her dog out of the way by the collar. Person B says "he's always like that the first couple of minutes". Thirty seconds later it happens again - Dog B is standing over Dog A in a dominant fashion snarling. Person B does nothing so Person A hits Dog B on the back a couple of times, shoves him out of the way, and retrieves Dog A before he gets hurt. Person B says that was the wrong way to handle the situation.

Dog A is frail and almost 15 years old.
Dog B is large and about a year old.

:shrug:

[MrCoffee]

1. as long as you don't park your dog in front of a hydrant, you should be fine.

Person A should have tasered Dog B. Little bastard.

[PeaceNikki]

2. There were probably better ways to handle it.

I can see "hitting and shoving" as potentially causing further aggression.

[undeterred]

4. I often see people with aggressive dogs standing there doing nothing.

They are the ones saying "dogs will be dogs" "this is how he acts in these situations" etc.

A doberman killed a jack russell terrier at one of our dog parks recently while the owner stood there in silence and did not say or do a thing. You bet the owner got involved in trying to save their dogs life, just as I was about to do today.

I had no idea what this dog was capable of, or how passive the owner was. I felt like telling him to act like a man.

[Mutley]

6. Now, I'd be kicking the ass of a human and a dog

if my dog were killed that way.

[undeterred]

9. I wasn't there when it happened

but about 30-40 people and there pets were there. It was traumatic for everyone. Lawsuit coming. Lots of people who won't go back there because it was such an awful experience. Happened in just a minute or two though.

Dogs will be dogs.

[Mutley]

3. I don't think hitting Dog B was warranted. To that point.

When first meeting, dogs will always establish who is dominant, and who is submissive. If all Dog B had done to that point was snarl and assume an aggressive stance, then I don't think hitting the dog was necessary. Now, if Dog B had actually made moves to fight and injure Dog A, then it would be a different story.

Also, Person B should have been controlling his/her dog the entire time. And if he/she knows Dog B has aggressive tendencies, then he/she should not be allowing the dog off the leash. It should not have been up to Person A alone to separate the dogs.

[undeterred]

7. Dominance/submission is usually established with tails still wagging

and while my dog is generally submissive, he also gives a bark to say when its enough. In this case the dominant dog barked and snarled at him and he did not respond, and I consider that extremely aggressive. My dog did not respond with aggression at all, I just got him out of the way.

I wasn't going to wait for my dog to need stitches. My assessment of the white male owner was that he was totally oblivious to the fact that his dogs behavior really needed closer monitoring.

[Mutley]

11. I agree on the owner

And I probably would have reacted the same way you did. I just tend to think hitting is unnecessary unless the situation gets really bad.

[flvegan]

5. Person B should not have Dog B at a dog park off leash

Dog B has dominance issues. At some point, Dog B is going to run across another dominant dog just like him/her (Dog C) and Dog B and Dog C are gonna get ugly.

At best, Dog B needs correction from Person B. Or a muzzle.

What was Dog A doing whilst being snarled at?

[undeterred]

8. Cowering.

He is a submissive dog, but usually he will set a limit and bark back to say "enough". In this case he was really scared. I've shoved other peoples dogs away from him before to protect him. Usually people feel terrible that their dog is dominating my arthritic elderly dog and they don't mind that I've done that because they weren't there to call them off.

This guy wanted me to try and "understand" his dog.

[flvegan]

10. Here's the thing

at a dog park, most every dog is a beta. It's neutral territory. A dog that needs to be an alpha somehow will establish that in a second or two with an already submissive dog. A dominant dog that dominates a submissive dog post pack ranking is simply being aggressive.

I stand with my statement. That dog has no place in a park like that, and the owner needs obedience training.

[undeterred]

12. I would like to give the owner some training that involves a leash

and a whip. But he isn't going to like it one bit. The dog was oblivious to my hitting him, he was so interested in dominating my dog- all it did was piss off the guy, and he was the one I really wanted to hit.

[flvegan]

13. Well

hitting the other dog was a bad idea. He/she could've easily gone after you, or you dog, sensing your trauma could've gotten defensive and gotten hurt.

Every dog at the park should have a harness. It's an easy way to provide a handle, away from faces and teeth to remove a dog from a situation.

Too few people really understand their dogs in situations outside the home, your other owner proves this.

[undeterred]

18. Every dog should have a human that takes responsibility

for its behavior.

[flvegan]

19. Right, but

it's like driving. You have to account for the idiots.

[undeterred]

21. People never think that THEY are idiots

When I lived in Chicago there was a grad student with a purebred male bull mastiff that weighed 160lbs (more than the owner did) and as it grew it became very dominant and everyone in the neighborhood was afraid of it. At the age of 18 months he had not had the dog neutered, and he continued to bring the dog to the only neighborhood park (we had no dog parks) where its dominance and aggression were a constant problem. The dog was almost physically impossible for him to control.

Everyone begged him to get the dog neutered, as he had no intention of breeding it, but he was concerned about his dog's "sexuality". We warned him that he should be worried about HIS sexuality if he didn't get the dog neutered.... and finally he did.

You just can't have a dog like that in a city park where the whole neighborhood has to work around you.

[skygazer]

14. Dog B should not have been off leash

Hitting Dog B was not the way to handle the situation and could have exacerbated the aggression. Person B is an asshole.

[maxsolomon]

15. dominating dog B is fine

hitting, not so much.

in this situation, i jump in, look huge, & yell real loud to break it up. usually works.

so, person B has a half point. but my dog has also fought with dog such as dog B. wheatens don't take shit from puppies.

[undeterred]

17. I was behind dog B

If I were in front of him I would have towered over him and yelled at him- not close enough so he could have bitten me but just to make him feel dominated. Its not like he wouldn't know what that meant.

Look, its a huge dog park. Most of the people who come there walk around the whole thing and get in a lot of exercise. Even if you have a grumpy dog you can bring him there and keep him on a leash and stay out of trouble. If your dog doesn't like crowds you can wait till you're away from the entrance and then let him off the leash.

My dog is old. Likes everyone, gets along with everyone. Happy to see every single dog, never started a fight in his life. So, we sit near the entrace and he greets other dogs. Stuff like this never happens. If it does happen, you can bet its happened with that dog a dozen other times and the owner still doesn't see it as his problem. Something really bad has to happen before he will figure it out.

[idgiehkt]

22. I agree with you on that last point

Something bad might happen. :( One of my dogs was permanently affected by having two dogs jump on him at a dog park...only in a playful way, but he was intimidated because he was outnumbered. I would use my voice before I ever touched another person's animal, and I have a scary command voice that usually makes dogs stop in their tracks. You want to use as low a tone as possible, coming from your chest, almost so you can feel it vibrate, and lean toward the dog, saying "No" (I mean for a dog that has an owner near, not for some random dog you meet on the street that may see that as a challenge). Anything high or shrill will further excite them. That being said, I can completely understand why you reacted the way that you did, I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same. But it's better to use your voice than your hands, because you don't want to muddy the legal waters any...though I can understand someone going to any lengths to protect an older dog, for whom any kind of surgery to repair an injury would be life threatening. :hug:

[undeterred]

23. Most of the dog park dogs are well trained

I know how to dominate a dog without touching them if I am facing them- but I was behind this one. He was oblivious to being hit. I thought about grabbing his collar but he was so big I wasn't even sure if I could pull him away. As it was, hitting him didn't even get the dog's attention, just the owners.

The owner wasn't responding at all until I hit his dog, and he probably wouldn't have done a thing if his dog tore mine limb from limb. He'd probably say "He does this when he's in a new place. He's nervous."

The owner didn't do a damn thing and didn't apologize.

[idgiehkt]

29. I still recommend

yelling No. I once stopped two dogs running down my street at top speed, one was chasing the other and it probably would have been a bloodbath...I was yelling and I also clapped my hands together really loudly (they hurt quite a bit for a while) because that sounds like gun shots if it's done loundly enough. it sounds stupid but it really works...both of those dogs were running down the street facing away from me and neither even saw me come into the picture. I've found that several really loud, hard handclaps will distract just about any dog; they know something is getting slapped and they don't want to be next.

In both instances you mentioned (with this dog and the mastiff) it sounds like the problem at it's root is that the owner gets some kind of vicarious gratification from the dominant behavior of their animal (when directed at other animals). And the animals senses it, and has no motivation not to do the behavior. I hope this dog does not injure anyone. I don't go to dog parks much, it's been years since I've gone to one, because I just don't trust PEOPLE, not because I don't trust animals. And I've also told people in public areas that had dogs I felt they were not capable of controlling that they needed to keep their animals away from mine; once I told a woman who weighed about 120 pounds that she had no business walking her two well over a hundred pound rotties at the same time in a public area because she would never be able to control them if something happened. Then I sic'ed the park authorities on her. That kind of thing makes me really popular. :)

[undeterred]

30. On the yelling and clapping

My dog is deaf, or nearly deaf. If I clap or yell sometimes he gets really confused because its one of the few things he hears, but he can't tell what direction its coming from. Once I got separated from him in the woods- he was a long way behind me on the path. When I started clapping he heard me, but ran further away from me. So- its having one effect on some dogs and another effect on others. Mine gets confused if he doesn't have me in eyeview.

[idgiehkt]

31. yeah, I meant the other dog

anything to break their momentum and get their attention so you can establish dominance. Deaf dogs are a special case, I understand. I really hope that that guy gets a clue and you don't have to repeatedly worry about this stuff.

An ex of mine had a dog with a genetic disorder ( pure-bred bought from a breeder, of course) and part of it was that he went totally deaf and then later went blind. During the times she wasn't in his line of sight he would bark repeatedly. He would be in complete fear when she was not in his direct line of sight. Really sad.

[undeterred]

33. In a park situation people can't just do what they want.

People also get into arguments about whether young children should be brought to the dog park or not. (I don't have children and my dog is fine with children, so its not a problem for me.)

Imagine Dog B walking up to a 3 year old and displaying this dominance behavior. The parent thinks she should be able to bring her child to the park as her child is used to big dogs. Agressive Dog B is not used to children and doesn't like childs hand in its face... There are no hard and fast rules about this.

The people with children do not want to have to hire a babysitter so they can go to the dogpark for half an hour, and the guy with the aggressive dog doesn't think he should have to worry about children in a dog park. If an aggressive dog can kill another dog, it could do the same to a child...

[idgiehkt]

35. I'm completely in agreement with you.

I thought I had made that clear in my other posts. I am not saying people should be able to do what they want. I am not arguing with you. At this point I am completely confused by your response.

:shrug:

[Parche]

16. Dog

Sounds Ruff

[begin_within]

20. Person A pulls out a machete and slices Person B's head off.

Problem solved.

[applegrove]

24. I think that is a situation where you take your "toys" and your dog and go

somewhere else in the park.

[undeterred]

25. What is that supposed to mean?

[applegrove]

26. I don't think you handled it badly..I'm just the most passive type and I

hope you don't have to deal with crap like that again. Or with an owner who sits back and watches their dog dominate when you have complained. If I had a dog and it was bothering another dog and its owner, I would lease up and give them distance right away. That is all I meant. I hope it is a big park cause otherwise you will have to meet this dog owner again.

I didn't mean to imply that you were a child taking their toys and leaving the game cause you were suckey. I used that play on words when perhaps I should not have.

I would walk away is what I meant. It isn't up to your dog (or you) to socialize the other dog. It is up to the owner to do that.

[undeterred]

27. This happened near the entrance,

which is where everyone comes and goes. Early in the day I take him for a walk in the woods.

But I take him to the dog park specifically so he can see other dogs because he loves it. He starts barking like crazy when I pull the car in and 98% of the dogs are fine. I deliberately stay by the entrance and don't walk very far because its too hard on him and our purpose is more social.

And if people do have a problem dog most of them keep it on the leash. I guess I have to watch him more closely if I'm going to go there at dinner time.

[applegrove]

28. Sorry for that. Dogs can have so much fun when they all play fairly together. There

is no more relaxing way to go for a walk that in a dog park on a sunny day. The dogs love it.

[ThomCat]

32. Person B needs to be more responsible.

Dog B should be on a leash.

I don't care if it's "normal dominance behavior," it could still injure Dog A.

[hedgehog]

34. Let me get this straight - you think DOG B was acting dominant?

It sounds to me like PERSON B was trying to establish dominance! I don't know how I would have handled it, but Person B is a jack ass and you would be better off to avoid him in the future.

[mopinko]

36. i would have been between those dogs without thinking

and i probably would have grabbed dog b by the neck and had her belly up. i just instinctively act like the big dog. i might have taken the time to ask was owner b gonna do something or should i.
but then, that might be why i don't usually go to the dog park.
ok, i'm kinda exaggerating. but i would have growled, and gotten between them, and let that dog know that i was the big dog.
i do give my daughter's goofball dog the belly up treatment when she comes over. she is just an out of control nut. and i do just act like a big dog without thinking. i would totally be in the middle of a fight without a second thought. i have no fear of dogs, at all. i should, but i don't.