My harry potter issue - house elves (SPOILER)

[liontamer]

I'm glad somebody finally noticed that house elves could apparate places wizards can't. It's been bugging me since book 4. Every time Hermione reminded someone that "Hogwarts: a History" explicitly states that no one can apparate or disapparate on Hogwarts grounds, I wanted to scream "Dobby Can!!! and did all through book 2!!"

Still I'm pissed that they didn't use them more;:

"Kreacher: apparate into the lestrange's vault and get us a cup with a badger on it"
"Kreacher: come here to our tent and stay with us/feed us"
"Kreacher get us into hogwarts, right now"

the fear that he was tortured is kind of crap, I mean if Yaxley showed up at Grimmauld, he'd still have to come alone right? Fidelius Charms aren't that leaky. Kreacher couldn't hide? I suppose that would have made everything too easy, but still.

:rant:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. dork

:P

[liontamer]

3. I've embraced the dork

And this has been bugging me for years dammit!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. you are in your own category of dork, if that has really been bothering you for years

[liontamer]

5. well it went from being a plot hole

to something we were bludgeoned with

In goblet of fire, when they kept mentioning that barty crouch couldn't have broken in because he couldn't apparate unto grounds I was all, "Dobby did in COS" must be a plot hole
Then in Order of Phoenix, Grimmauld place was hidden and had the same antidisapparation charms put on it, but kreacher could lock himself in his room and go back and forth to malfoy manor?
And in Half blood prince, they had to take off the charms in the great hall so the kids could practice moving one foot over, dumbledore couldn't even apparate in and out of hogwarts much less death eaters, but house elves could. Ron even said, "I wish I could apparate like a house elf" It just got silly. And usually random pieces of information she places in her books turn out to be essential in the climactic scene at the end. So the house elf thing has been building up for awhile.

[kwyjibo]

2. we had to see them suffer with nothing but stewed mushrooms and berries.

It had to be bad. And it had to be the three of them with no one else.

[liontamer]

6. meh, I could see why she would have no one notice

it just kind of annoyed me. Hermione was smart enough to bring the portrait of Phineus Nigellus, but not to figure out the house elf thing? Ms. SPEW herself?

[skygazer]

7. I love reading these threads

Having not read the books, it's like pure gibberish. :rofl:

[liontamer]

11. fie on you nonbeliever!

seriously though it's kind of a teleportation thing. The servants/slaves have the power to teleport anywhere; including places that are shielded from teleportation. Because they're not human - the shield doesn't deter them.

So it was strange that when people had to go places that were shielded they would do these really elaborate dangerous things to get in when they could have just had one of these elves either go on their own or take them.

At first it wasn't obvious that it would work, but people started to do it inadvertently all the time and even after they actively realized that they could do it, no one utilised this new knowledge in any plans. :shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. I was really surprised, especially ater Harry learned that Kreacher appareted to the horcrux,

that Harry didn't call for Kreacher while they were out hiding, and didn't ask Kreacher to go get the horcrux in the vault and use him in other ways.

Or at least, after Harry knew that Grimwauld place was no longer safe, why didn't he call to Kreacher at least to get him out of the house?

I really kept expecting Harry to use Kreacher that way, but he never did.

[liontamer]

9. to be fair, i didn't expect harry to figure it out

I'm still impressed that he figured out the whole diadem thing (And I loved Ginny when Cho wanted to escort Harry to Ravenclaw "Luna can take him"; smart girl) but I thought hermione would have figured it out. she's smart and muggleborn so she often sees things that wizards miss (like the logic problem in the first book)

[XemaSab]

10. I hadn't thought about it before

but I would guess that since Gringotts was controlled by Goblins and not humans, they would have put anti-house-Elf spells on the vaults.

Otherwise you could just clean out the whole bank. :shrug:

[liontamer]

12. there's no evidence that you can put anti house elf spells on things

the house elf call to serve seems to override everything except death. Even after dobby got them out of malfoy manor neither the good guys nor the bad guys thought to use house elves this way.

[kay1864]

15. Goblins aren't the same as wizards

And their magic is likely different. So Gringott's being elf-proof seems pretty logical, even necessary.

It does seem like a conflict though--seems like wizards can make their homes elf-proof, else Death Eaters could send their elves almost anywhere as spies. But then if they could, why didn't the Malfoys do so? Mebbe they just didn't think about it.

:shrug:

[liontamer]

16. that's the problem

wizards can't make their home elf proof. There's no evidence that anything is elf proof. Maybe goblins can, maybe they can't. Remember goblins aren't allowed to carry wands.

The problem is that the characters don't even consider trying to use elves for anything besides housework. They really just don't think about it. There are exceptions: The malfoys use kreacher to spy on his own master, Harry uses dobby and kreacher to spy on Draco, and Aberforth sends dobby to rescue harry and the others, so the elves could be used this way. They just aren't.

[kay1864]

17. Well, goblins don't need wands

The waterfall, for example.

[liontamer]

18. this is actually argued in book 7

They don't need wands, but they could improve their magic if they had them. Wizards don't need wands either, wands just allow for stronger more controlled magic.

edited to minimize typos :)

[kay1864]

13. JKRowling addressed that in her FAQ after book 4

That house-elves do a different kind of magic than wizards and witches, and therefore they can Apparate in Hogwarts. Otherwise they couldn't do their jobs.

[liontamer]

14. I know that they can

I'm upset that the characters didn't use this more. Expecially when we were all set up for a new war with new uses for magical creatures. It wasn't till the final battle that house elves fought. And even without fighting they could have been useful.

[newcriminal]

19. Harry said in book 7

that he couldn't call for Kreacher after Yaxley followed Hermione into Grimmauld place because he couldn't risk the death eaters finding out where they were.

[liontamer]

20. yes

but that was kind of a cop out imo. but there's still dobby. And nobody else thinks to use house elves for other stuff either. There's really no explanation except that Rowling didn't want them to use that option.

[Lavender Brown]

21. I thought Harry was going to give Kreacher some clothes and set him free

at the end of the book... but it sounds like he wants to keep him as a servant. :shrug:

[FloridaJudy]

22. At the end of which book?

If it was Order of the Phoenix or Half-Blood Prince, Harry couldn't free him because that would allow Kreacher to work against the order.

If it was Deathly Hallows, then Kreacher seems perfectly happy where he is. The poor critter's suffered enough: let him stay where he feels useful and wanted.

[Lavender Brown]

24. Being free wouldn't mean he'd have to leave

It would just mean he'd have choices... and wouldn't have to beat himself up for disagreeing with people, etc etc. :)

[CBHagman]

23. Well, Rowling didn't tie up all the loose ends.

When we last see Kreacher, he is proudly and valiantly leading a house-elf counterattack against Death-Eaters, Harry's prosaic wish at the end of the chapter notwithstanding! But we don't find out what happened to all the house-elves. We don't even find out what happened to George Weasley, except that he survived.