I know I'm hughly naive...but what's with all these not-really-gay Repugs?

[Critters2]

Seriesly, someone explain this to me.

I mean, it's one thing to be a closet gay person, and to be Republican, and to keep a low profile, etc. But if you're a gay Republican, why would you go on and on and on about family values and gay marriage and the like, the way Craig and Foley did? There are dozens of other political issues to build a career on--economics, law and order, security, etc.

Why do these guys set themselves up for this sort of thing? Did I miss that day in psych class?

Thanks for any insights :hi:

[billyskank]

1. It's because they're gay but they are ashamed of it

They think it's sinful, but they cannot resist their own natural urges. So it drives them to be rabidly homophobic in public.

That guy who turns up at the funerals of gay people wearing placards saying "God hates fags"? What's his name? I think he DEFINITELY wants to have sex with guys. I'd bet large amounts of money on it. If I were a betting man.

That is my cod psychology for today.

[Critters2]

3. This makes sense

I have a (gay) parishioner who says my biggest handicap in understanding these things is that I was raised in a progressive home where none of this was an issue. He says it keeps me from understanding people who either still think it's sinful, or who were raised to think that but are struggling to move past all that. He's always telling me "The problem for you is that it's not a problem for you. So you don't see why it's a problem for the rest of us. So, trust me...it is!!"

Must be something to that.

[Critters2]

4. Oh, and I've said the same thing about Fred Phelps for years

That guy needs a boyfriend!!

[LostinVA]

13. *sigh* Not all homophobes are gay. The vast majority are straight

[Critters2]

14. Yeah, but there's something more goin' on with ol' Fred

It's more than biblical interpretation that drives him. But, yes, most homophobes are straight. No doubt. That's why they gay ones are so perplexing to me.

[Frank Cannon]

24. Most homophobes are straight? You have a source for this...

assertion?

[Critters2]

31. I was agreeig with LostinVa. Who was unhappy with me for

suggesting that many homophobes are gay. I was trying to be agreeable. Guess that was a mistake.

If you want to bark at someone, please respond to post # 13.

Geez, what is this...GD?

[DS1]

16. True enough, my brother is straight but homophobic as hell

not violent, but there's a definite aversion.

I don't get it.

[smirkymonkey]

18. However, why would you hate someone so much if you weren't

threatened by them (in this case, their sexuality) and why would their sexuality threaten you if you were really 100% straight. I think that a lot of straight men are sometimes tempted by gay men (even if they are primarily straight) and they hate that impulse in themselves which is why they have so much hatred for gay men. They simply can't accept any homosexual urges within themselves whatsoever.

[electron_blue]

20. That's exactly what I think.

[LostinVA]

21. Um...there's plenty of really racist people out there who are 100% white

[smirkymonkey]

42. Yes, but they are threatened by the part of themselves that they

think minorities represent, darkness, lack of power, not belonging, etc. - whatever it is in themselves that they are projecting on the out group or the weaker group. However with straight men and gay men, I think it's primarily about sexuality.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. its not very nice to blame us for our oppressors, with absolutely no proof that he indulges in same

sex behaviors.

[Critters2]

32. Get off my ass!

Billyskank was the first to suggest this about Phelps. Bitch at him.

And, there is a psychological theory that supports the idea that people who overreact to a behavior secretly would like to engage in it. It's called "reaction formation". So scream at Freud.

I've advocated for the gay community in ways which put my job and career at risk on a good many occasions. But, I don't have to.

Critters
fed up

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. you are over reacting. almost any thing by freud is empirically impossible to prove.

i still thing blaming an oppressed group for their oppression is not very nice.

[Critters2]

35. Then take it up with the person who originally said it

Barking at people who advocate for you is a great way to lose allies. There are plenty of other issues I could commit my time and energy to.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. if one individual makes you loose your cause, this is not my problem

[Critters2]

38. It's a whole series of experiences, of which this is just one more

example. If people don't need my help, that's fine.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. if you arent dedicated to your causes dont blame me for it.

[Critters2]

40. Again, go bitch at the person who originally made the statement

you're pissed about. I have no idea why you came down on me, nor do I know why billyskank is getting a pass. But I have better ways to spend my lunch hour than taking your crap.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Billyskank said it - it's shame.

They hate who they are because they had been raised to hate gay people, to think of them as subhuman scum, yet all the time knowing that's precisely what they are.

And so, they lash out and try to rein in their feelings by reining in everyone's feelings, and maybe the hope that if they speak out against gayness enough, it'll finally "cure" them.

It's also a reason that so many gay men go into the Catholic Priesthood - a false hope that the vow of celibacy will make everything okay.

[underpants]

41. "The best defense is a good offense" crowd

You and I don't get how that rings so true to them just like irony and satire passes by them.

This phrase hits them because well let's face it my conspiracy theory just might be coming out (as they say)
------------------
CONSPIRACY THEORIES
They all drink HEAVILY to forget that they are homosexuals. Seriously I mean this-they drink so much that they completely forget what they said the day before and the week before is out of the question. They all just act like it didn't happen and no one calls them on it.

That is by far the most likely explanation for their behavior.

About the gay thing-I don't mean that in an accusatory way I really do think that what became the elite of the elite in the think tanks recruited gays at Harvard (mostly) and Yale-some other Ivy League type schools- back in the late 60's and early 70's. These were social darwinists who held tightly the belief that these were clearly superiorly bred gene pools that had distinguished themselves from the pack of immigrants of the early part of the century. They needed capable bodies and the fact that these men were gay meant that they would forever be loyal as their ultimate fear of being outed could be held over their heads. The rest, as they say, is just wearing a suit and hanging the diploma.

Cheney
Bolton
Roberts
Alito
Norquist
Drier (not Harvard)
etc.


This is my one and only conspiracy theory...that and the one about how they killed Pat Tillman before he could get back to the States and hand Kerry an unfixable landslide.


---------------

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. I like your theory - and I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.

Not surprised at all.

[Left Is Write]

5. There aren't many issues like "family values" that play as well in Idaho.

While there are liberal pockets here (for which I am thankful), Idaho is largely populated by extremely conservative "traditional family values" type people.

[Critters2]

7. But wouldn't it be just as good to just keep quietly bringing pork home

(no pun intended)? That keeps people in Congress--even nameless, faceless people like my Congressjerk--who isn't gay, I'm sure, but is married to the daughter of a murderous dictator.

[Left Is Write]

8. I'm sorry - can you clarify what you mean?

[Critters2]

10. Ya know, just bringing tax dollar-funded projects

to your district, helping people having trouble with some government agency or another, that sort of thing. Doesn't that help maintain a political career as well as taking loud obnoxious positions on things you should just stay the hell away from?

[Left Is Write]

12. Well, no. Not here.

Craig's "district" is the whole state. This is a conservative state, one which passed a referendum on a "defense of marriage" amendment to the constitution last year(by 63%!). Craig's conservative, "family values" platform, and his vigorous opposition to same-sex marriage are what have kept him in the US Senate for 15+ years and the US House for ten years before that.

Idahoans for the most part don't want to hear about projects funded by tax dollars. They want to hear about tax cuts and nuclear families and anti-gay legislation.

[caty]

6. I was taught

that there are two things you never discuss with anyone---your finances and your sex life. These are your own personal business. Plus, the more someone talks about it, the less people who hear you think you really have. I think that the repubs talk about being against gay people to cover up how many of them are actually gay. They have been brainwashed into thinking there is something wrong with the way they were born, so they have to lie to cover up their "shame". The sad thing is that they consider their sexuality in a shameful way. The more we hear them talk against homosexuality--the more there are of them.

[SacredCow]

9. It's textbook projection....

attributing your own unresolved feelings towards others.

[Critters2]

11. It's the level of it that boggles my mind....

building a career on it. Really, I'm just blown away by this kind of behavior.

[Dukkha]

15. They always find Jesus and miraculously turn hetero overnight

amazing that they're the only ones that can pull that off!

[Critters2]

17. A good chunk of my church has found Jesus and is still gay

So, have they not really found Jesus (a distinct possibility, considering their crazy, lefty pastor), or are they not really gay?

Or, a third possibility...They're not really Republican :)

[elshiva]

19. That's too bad. They don't know about groups like

Integrity and Dignity that are pro-gay and Christian. They think you have to be straight to be Christian and that is not true.

[Critters2]

22. Yep....

and another group I like to call my brothers and sisters.

http://www.ucccoaltion.org

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. Bullies attack what they're afraid of. Or what they're afraid will reveal their own weakness.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. most bullies attack because they can. because they are stronger.

only few bullies attack due to projection

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. In my experience, bullies are all about avoiding their own vulnerabilities.

Pretending to be strong by damaging those who can blow their cover regarding being afraid. If their vulnerabilites are revealed, then they'll be attacked again, and made helpless. They are attacking what they hate within themselves. Be it a lack of the possibility of intimacy, rebellion against mistreatment, etc. Those who must appear tough or smart, are frightened of people finding out that they aren't, and of them leaving and laughing.

Those who must make others helpless, are afraid of (again) becoming helpless.

People attack others in the same manner that they themselves were attacked. Basically, demonstrating their displeasure at a violation of their integrity, and crying for a change in the situation at the same time. Abusers often cry for help through their actions. "This is what you did, you shouldn't do this to me." Of course, in this insane society, people merely reject such behaviour, and don't care at all about what would motivate it, and more importantly, perceive the communication inherent in such actions. And act to support and reinforce them, to help them.

And the abused don't see that it's possible to work their way out of such a horrible position, and instead continue the cycle of abuses. Sadness...

Regarding those who attack gays, it could be due to having been so abused that their personal boundaries are nonexistent, and that they fear invasion and a lack of ability to defend themselves. Helplessness due to abuse is a strong motivator. There is certainly a strong, perhaps extreme energetic motivator behind such actions, and it's undoubtedly complex.

I'm barely touching upon my concepts on the subject. We are complex, multifaceted beings and "problems" are rarely singular in nature. Read your Alice Miller on the subject. She also has interesting things to say regarding the experiences that motivated dictators and other high-profile abusers.

[Pierre.Suave]

30. I was reading a memoir

of an Air Force pilot from Vietnam, and here is a rough quote he ahd that struck me.

"Cruelty is the crutch of the weak, gentleness can only be expected from the strong."

Oh, how true that is.

[Critters2]

37. Girard says bullies are representatives of the community

and that bullying and scapegoating are ways of quelling larger stressors in the community, and thus creating (a tentative and ultimately untenable) peace. It doesn't work, but that's what scapegoating and bullying is trying to do.

[Orsino]

27. I'm just glad to see that they're not bigots...

...and still let straight people into the party. This example of inclusiveness is one we should all emulate.

:rofl:

[Aristus]

29. Witches leading the witch hunt. End of story.

n/t

[stuntcat]

34. You aren't naive and there's no explaining it.

I got no insights really.. except I think going "I'm not gay" over and over is just hilarious, he's making a big joke out of himself. I'd feel something like care or concern for him if he hadn't cast so many party-line votes against everything good.. he's a very powerful man so he deserves everything he gets for lying about all this.

[Radical Activist]

44. No different than women who will only have flings with strangers

rather than men they know. Many women would rather have a one night stand with a person they don't expect to meet again and would never have a relationship with. There are different reasons for that but a big one is not wanting to be confronted with your own actions later on due to feelings of personal guilt and/or shame from society. Women who are still sexually repressed would rather not have to explain to their friends that they had a one night stand with someone in their social circle, just as Republican men would rather not have to explain that they had a same-sex experience. Its all a product of the unhealthy shame surrounding sex in our society.