Language Police Tip of the Day: No such thing as being totally decimated

[Xipe Totec]

to be decimated means to lose one tenth of your forces.

Forces can be totally devastated, but never totally decimated.

That is all...
















:hide:

[Deja Q]

1. Almost like turning a molehill into a mountain...

:hide:

[Xipe Totec]

2. Don't decimate my patience....

:evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

9. and how would you punish me?

By spanking?

[Xipe Totec]

19. By ignoring 10% of your posts

proportional response, I say!

[Deja Q]

77. ! ! ! ! !

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[yewberry]

3. Thank you.

I have no idea why that gets under my skin, but it does.

[Xipe Totec]

7. It's on the top ten most unwanted list.

:hi:

[WCGreen]

79. Me too..

Especially since it comes from the Roman Legion practice of randomly killing every tenth man when that Legion was disgraced in Combat...

There is a historical possibility that Julius Caesar put himself through a decimation just to prove he was with the men of that Legion and not the nobles who commanded...

[Critters2]

4. Thank you.

And "MEDIA" IS A PLURAL NOUN!!!!!

[Inchworm]

5. Do effect vs affect and make me understand

Noone has got it through my skull yet! I just use effect always and figure if each word gets equal air time I'm only wrong half of the time. :dunce:

:hi:

[Critters2]

13. The 50% rule--that's how I used to handle French exams.

And they gave me a degree!

[Inchworm]

26. Woohoo Mona Me!

Bong say bong!

:rofl:

[Critters2]

42. Say SEE bong! nt

[Xipe Totec]

15. Affect generally suggests an emotion

Affective science - the scientific study of emotion.

Affective computing - an area of research in computer science aiming to simulate emotional processes.


Effect: Any result of another action or circumstance.

Sound effects are artificially created or enhanced sounds.

But effects can also be used in reference to one’s personal belongings.

So affects refer to emotions (intangible), effects refer to objects and actions (tangible).

[Inchworm]

29. Seems pretty simple :)

I hope I remember next time it comes up. Well, I am sober yet. That's a plus.

Thanks!

:)

[yewberry]

23. Easy.

Most of the time, effect is a noun and affect is a verb.

The loss of her father had a startling effect.
The loss of her father affected her in a startling way.


However...
effect can be a verb meaning "to achieve" or "cause to happen"
and affect can be a noun meaning "feeling" (used in psychological context).

[opiate69]

25. hehe.. simultaneous posts..

[yewberry]

30. When we're right,

we're right!

[Inchworm]

32. ooooh!

I can hold that noun/verb thing!

My 50/50 method will for sure improve.

Thank you!

:hi:

[Thegonagle]

85. I wish there was somthing like a 75/75 method. That would surely improve the hit rate.

Affect vs. effect is is even greater than the who vs. whom on the "Englishisms I'll never really 'get'" scale.

The best I can do is try to avoid using either, but if I absolutely must, I hope for the 50/50 method to save my dignity.

[FloridaJudy]

89. I have problems with "nauseous"

I'm never sure whether it means "nauseating" or "nauseated" - I've seen it used both ways. So I avoid it entirely.

[opiate69]

24. Easy...

Effect is most commonly used as a noun "his war experience had a profound effect on him"
Affect is most commonly used as a verb: "The music affected him deeply"

[Inchworm]

35. See #32- but hec it seems you guys are sharing a brain

so you probably already know :)

Thanks!

:)

[opiate69]

37. No problem! And hey, Tofunut.. can I have the brain for a bit? I have a Sudoku to finish!

:9

[yewberry]

38. Sure.

Don't feed it this time, though.

[BarenakedLady]

59. Guess what?

Chicken butt!


















:hi:

[Inchworm]

66. Hey sexy!

I see you are at a slumber party tonight, but if you need a massage from all that excercise, call me at BR549. I'll restore you back to full strength.

Flirt- Flirt- Flirt- :loveya:

Hows things this Saturday Eve?

:*

[BarenakedLady]

69. Okie dokie

And yourself?

:hi:

[Inchworm]

71. Just got up fom my nap

I'm reading a little erotica.

:rofl:

[Xipe Totec]

88. Then you picked the perfect post number to reply to

Nicely played!

:rofl:

[Richardo]

6. When I hear someone say that I want to decaptiate his head off...

:D

[yewberry]

8. ...and defenestrate them out the window. nt

[Richardo]

10. ...and eviscerate his guts out.

[yewberry]

11. and exsanguinate out all of their blood!

[Xipe Totec]

16. It's deja vu all over again nt

[Richardo]

18. I'm having spinach florentine for dinner.

:9

[yewberry]

20. I won't be having roast beef with au jus sauce, that's for sure.

Trade you?

[Richardo]

21. Try the soup du jour of the day!

[yewberry]

27. I'm short on cash, so I have to stop at the ATM machine on the way.

[Richardo]

41. I'll meet you there, I'm fixing a leak in my hot water heater.

[yewberry]

44. Someone told me I shouldn't pre-set mine above 120 degrees.

Is that true?

[Xipe Totec]

47. Make sure to move all the inflammable and flammable materials from the area nt

[Richard Steele]

60. Let's hope you don't forget your PIN number! nm

[IntravenousDemilo]

62. I hear it's what all THE HOI polloi are having at their five-YEAR ANNIVERSARY celebrations. n/m

[Richardo]

64. This year it's either at the Rio Grande River or the Sierra Nevada Mountains

:hi:

[IntravenousDemilo]

65. And the guest speaker is Jack Layton, the leader of Canada's NDP party. n/m

[Richardo]

74. I'm sure he'll receive many kudos...

[Xipe Totec]

68. Five year anniversaries have lost their luster nt

[Sanity Claws]

12. That's redundant

You decapitate him. You don't decapitate his head off because decapitate already means taking his head off.

No need to thank me. ;)

[Richardo]

14. I don't get it

[Sanity Claws]

17. I caught the humor.

No need to worry about that or thank me. ;)

[Xipe Totec]

22. Alert the Department of Redundancy Department.

They will thank you and thank you.

;)

[Ellen Forradalom]

28. To lose one-tenth

to have nine-tenths remaining, or to be reduced to a tenth, meaning you lost nine-tenths?

[yewberry]

39. To reduce by one tenth.

Nine tenths left--not really all that bad.

[Ellen Forradalom]

40. If you lose 30%

are you tridecimated?

[Xipe Totec]

43. Texas force decimated after black bean lottery

March 25, 1843

On this day in 1843, seventeen Texans were executed at Salado, Tamaulipas, Mexico. As the members of the defeated Mier expedition were being marched from Mier to Mexico City, they attempted a mass escape on February 11. Some 176 were recaptured, and Mexican dictator Santa Anna ordered that one in ten of the prisoners be shot. The victims were chosen by a lottery in which each man drew a bean from an earthen jar containing 176 beans, seventeen of which were black.

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/daybyday/03-25-001.html

[cloudbase]

31. That's the most unique

lesson of the day. Thanks.

[yewberry]

33. Hopefully, you'll remember it. nt

[Ellen Forradalom]

36. Nearly identical

to the one I learned from a somewhat pregnant woman.

[fizzgig]

34. good one

the one that really bothers me is when people modify 'unique.'

either it is unique or it's not...there are no degrees of uniqueness :D

[Xipe Totec]

45. The one that drives me nuts is the melding of regardless and irrespective

into irregardless which now, surprise, surprise, is a recognized word.

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

[Critters2]

46. If something were decimated 10 times, wouldn't that equal 100%?

I mean, wouldn't it? :shrug:

[yewberry]

48. No.

If you have a force of 100, after being decimated once you'd be a force of 90.
Twice, a force of 81. Three times, a force of 73.

After ten times, you'd have 39 left.

So ha!

[Critters2]

50. Damn you, Mathbot! Damn you and your clever calculations!

I'll get you yet!!

[yewberry]

51. You would have gotten away with it, too,

if it weren't for those meddling kids.

Aha-ha-ha!

[UncleSepp]

52. The limit approaches zero...

... what a gross, disturbing, yet entertaining math problem. :-)

[yewberry]

53. But it wouldn't drop below four, would it?

Assuming discrete units you have to round off, and when you drop below four, wouldn't you have to round down?

[UncleSepp]

81. Assuming discrete units isn't as fun, though!

Where's the nasty gory mess in that? :-P

[yewberry]

82. Ah, you're just trying to avoid the math, sicko.

:rofl:

[Xipe Totec]

49. No, it would equal 35%

0.9 raised to the 10th power (0.9 multiplied ten times) is 0.3486784401 or 34.867844% ~ 35%

This is just some pedantic math I picked up along the way...

:yoiks:

[Fox Mulder]

54. Merriam-Webster definition #3 of "decimate"

a: to reduce drastically especially in number <cholera decimated the population> b: to cause great destruction or harm to <firebombs decimated the city> <an industry decimated by recession>

[Xipe Totec]

55. Can't blame you for trying

Merriam-Webster goes by popular usage. If people use the term, even incorrectly, Merriam-Webster accepts it as part of the vernacular.

That's why, as I posted earlier, "irregardless" is accepted as a legitimate word.

But that still does not justify the use of the expression "totally decimate"

Even by Merriam-Webster's definition, decimate is a relative term, not an absolute one.

You cannot say "totally decimated" any more than you can say you are totally 80% done.

[Fox Mulder]

56. Really?

I didn't know Merriam-Webster was that unreliable.

What would be a better dictionary to use?

[Xipe Totec]

57. Merriam-Webster is not unreliable - you have to use it as intended

The definitions are in order from most precisely correct to most loosely applicable.

When you go to the third definition of the word, to support a claim, it's already a stretch.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decimates

[Fox Mulder]

58. Ah, okay.

I get it now.

:smackshead:

[noamnety]

86. That's not right.

MW doesn't have a policy that their third definitions and below aren't as accurate as their first or second definitions (and shouldn't be used). I suspect you made that up.

Webster's Seventh Collegiate Dictionary, 1967, defines usury... explaining the order of definitions thus:

"In general, the order of definitions follows the practice of the Third New International, where the earliest ascertainable meaning is placed first and later meanings are arranged in the order shown to be most probable by dated citations and semantic development. This arrangement applies alike to all meanings whether standard, technical..." (etc.):

http://www.perfecteconomy.com/pg-what-is-usury.html

Unless they've changed that policy, the original etymology is listed first in MW only because it's the oldest usage.

If you perceive your role as language police to be that of enforcing only pre-1900 word usage and original etymology, we're going to have to limit our speech considerably when we converse.*

*I was going to say when we "type" - but I see it's a stretch to use the word in that way. The more accurate meanings (right?) are:
1: to represent beforehand as a type : prefigure
2 a: to produce a copy of b: to represent in terms of typical characteristics : typify

My meaning is listed 3rd in MW, so I don't want to use that.
3: to produce (as a character or document) using a keyboard (as on a typewriter or computer); also : keyboard


darn, I just looked up converse, and that also is inaccurate word usage. :D

1archaic a: to have acquaintance or familiarity
b: to become occupied or engaged
2 a: to exchange thoughts and opinions in speech : talk
b: to carry on an exchange similar to a conversation (as with a computer)

--------------
Bottom line - modern usage of decimate = wiping out a large chunk of something. Archaic usage = wiping out 10%. Totally decimate wouldn't mean every last bit is destroyed, I'd agree with that, but I think the implication is that the decimation is severe enough to render the thing ineffective for all practical purposes. Completely decimating a military force doesn't mean every last troop is dead or injured, but it would imply that the force, as a whole, is no longer a functioning cohesive unit with any effectiveness.

[Aristus]

61. I am a member in good standing of The Fraternal Order Of Language Police Officers.

And I agree with you.


Except when splitting hairs. If ALMOST ten percent of something is destroyed, it can be said to have been nearly decimated. If exactly ten percent of something is destroyed, it CAN be said to have been totally decimated.

But I get it. Talking heads on the History Channel are always saying "General X's forces were wiped out; completely decimated." Drives me crazy.

[Xipe Totec]

63. Brother!

Welcome to the fray!

"Say what you mean, and mean what you say"

- Motto of "The Fraternal Order Of Language Police Officers"

[Capn Sunshine]

67. Actually

what you are trying to say is "completely" decimated

undercover NSA language police veteran

[Xipe Totec]

70. Exactly decimated would be more correct nt

[Capn Sunshine]

80. Actually decimated would be more completely correct

:P

[porphyrian]

72. You can totally lose one tenth of your forces (or be totally reduced to one tenth).

It's redundant, but not incorrect.

[NoPasaran]

73. Decimation comes to us from the Romans

A Legion that performed badly in battle could be punished by decimation every tenth man being executed to encourage the others, as Voltaire might observe. I wonder what effect it would have on our Senators.

[Xipe Totec]

84. Today we call them layoffs.

Perform badly in business and 10% of the workers get canned.

The generals, however, never decimate their own ranks.

[Redstone]

75. You are 100% correct, not that it will shield you from getting flamed.

Redstone

[EstimatedProphet]

76. Sure you can

Each of your forces can lose one finger and one toe.

:D

[fishwax]

78. But the American Heritage Dictionary defines decimate as "to destroy a large proportion of"

to reduce by one-tenth is *a* definition, but not the only one :)

[Xipe Totec]

83. Still a proportion, not a totality

:woohoo:

[Maestro]

87. I never thought it that way, but

you are correct!

[RiffRandell]

90. It's not as bad as IRREGARDLESS.

And how big is your penis? Yeah, regardless.