I'm increasingly ignorant in the world of contemporary art

[jpgray]

High-concept guys like Christo or the dude who fried up some food in his own liposucted fat leave me cold. Pollack and others seemed a bit too far on the edge of abstract for me. I can dig Mondrian and Kadinsky, but something seems to be missing there for me too.

I guess what I want is a high level of technical ability that isn't necessarily tied to an exclusive or wholly abstract form of expression. Has it simply been done too well in the past for anyone current to bother repeating it? Are artists after the heart of Goya or Van Gogh or Beardsley incapable of seeming innovative enough to inspire modern attention? Or is it more complicated than that?

[bettyellen]

1. i never thought of Christo as high concept, or Pollack as comtemporary

in fact i always thought i didn't really get Pollack for the same reason as I didn't get Citizen Caine. Which is that it's ain't the 50s anymore, and we grew up w/ so many derivitive images and films.... At least part of it is the thrill of the new.
Fried food in his liposucted fat? *yawn* Was this before or after Fight Club?

[jpgray]

2. High concept in that the difficult part of realizing it is wrangling millions of dollars

I don't describe Pollack as contemporary, but I wanted to give a general background as to my tastes. :dunce:

[UndertheOcean]

3. Not all people have an eye for great art , don't beat yourself about it

find something else you have an interest in.

I personally think Pollack is a genius , although my favourites are Juan Miro and Van Gogh and Gustav Klimt.

Picasso is a rather easy abstract artist to start with , try appreciating his work , that may help.

[jpgray]

4. I've slogged through the catalogues of almost every major modern artist

That of course would include Picasso. I'm curious as to who people are interested in that is working today.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. On ocassion I'll buy one of the expensive art magazines (funds allowing)

because galleries take pages to tease various works, and it's a good place to find what's going on, and what people in that world are interested in.

I can find a few excellent pieces in each issue. Too bad I don't have a job; I'd have a few subscriptions. Hope that helps.

[WCGreen]

16. Polluck is great...

It's like watching Take Five while listening to On the Road...

[swag]

6. I'm really grateful for

John Currin.

Also, I love me some Nelson Shanks, though he certainly isn't the most popular.

Saw me a great Martin Puryear exhibition at MOMA last month.

Louise Bourgeois is still at it.

And I can't get enough of Ryan Trecartin.



Them are some of the big names I like. Most of my favorite artists are people that few have heard of, from different localities that I've inhabited.

Here's a repro of John Currin's Stamford After Brunch.

[bicentennial_baby]

7. I saw a fantastic Bourgeois exhibit a few weeks back

At the ICA in Boston. She's one coolass lady. :D

[swag]

8. No shit. What an incredible person and amazing career.

I saw her "Memory and Architecture" at the Reina Sofia in early 2000. So great.

I'm envious of you seeing that Boston show. I'll look it up online. Thanks!

[bicentennial_baby]

9. I love her prints, they are outstanding...

her technique is mind blowing. And her spider sculptures are pretty amazing as well. I want to go back and buy the book from the exhibit next month.

:hi:

[jpgray]

18. Thanks muchly

[Fenris]

19. Thank you for introducing me to Currin.

I like what I see. Very interesting.

[terrya]

10. Nevermind

My post was stupid. Sorry to ruin your thread.

[jpgray]

17. There is no way to outstupid me on this subject

:D

[terrya]

38. You're just too generous towards my aesthetic shortcomings.

:-)

[supernova]

11. I think Damien Hirst is an artist

A con artist. ;-)

A whole cow, cut in half and dipped in formaldehye, does not a piece of art make, IMO.

This only appeals to city people who are so removed from nature that they have to be reminded of the basic circle of life and that it applies to them too.

[hippywife]

12. Maybe this is the way it works,

and I think that it does. Not all art is for everybody. If it appeals to you and you get it, fine. If not, then move on, it wasn't created for you. Art is not created to appeal to the masses, really, with the exception of work by crappy contrived works by people like Thomas Kincade. The artist, the real artist, mostly creates for him/herself out of a place within him/herself.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Cy Twombly. Damien Hirst. Klimt. Kandinsky. Pollock. Christo. Hockney. Nam June Paik. Gehry.

Cy Twombly:






For my money, this is the most exciting time in the history of art (meaning painting and other visual art) to be alive. (though I will also say that it's also a most exciting for other art: serious music, dance, writing, plays, musical theater (not musicals)).

The serious art world is mostly ignored by the ignorant illiterati majority of the world, but what is happening in that world is fucking incredible and wondrous! Some of the best stuff in centuries.

[Heidi]

20. !

[Rabrrrrrr]

23. Is that an agreement?

Or a wild disagreement?

:hi:

[Heidi]

25. That is _absolutely_ an agreement.

Herein, I show you my favorite Christmas gift in 2002 from Call Me Wesley:

http://www.daros.ch/EXH/FLASH/hom_pub6_e_f.html

[Rabrrrrrr]

34. Oh, my! Lucky you!!

I'd love to have that book!

One of my dreams is to some day own a Twombly, even a limited edition (since I'm sure I"ll never be able to afford an original) - or, hell, even a postcard with his signature.

:drool:

I can stare at his stuff for hours and get totally lost in it.

[swag]

40. My favorite number of his is "The Italians" from "50 Days at Ilium."

I was lucky enough to see that whole deal in a huge room at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, oh, back there in the late 80s, after I had been reading one of Marcel Jean's books on surrealism and discovered that the PMOA houses the hardcore Marcel Duchamp.

Lots of folks came into the Twombly room and clucked their tongues, of course. I just looked at "The Italians" and laughed and laughed.

Oh, quote from the woman in the dining room just now: "Man, this acrylic medium, this is like the all-around perfect stuff. I'm serious."

[Heidi]

43. "Leda and the Swan" is my favorite Twombly,

but "The Italians" is a close second. :thumbsup:

What kind of acrylic medium was being consumed in your dining room? I've grown especially fond of Lascaux Structura as a ground for mixed media stuff. :thumbsup:

[Heidi]

26. Dupe. Self-delete. (nt)

[Ivan Sputnik]

14. Lucien Freud

is a pretty good portrait artist.

[RushIsRot]

15. What about Salvador Dali? He had technique down pat as well

as an interesting approach.

[jpgray]

32. I loved Dali when I was younger. After reading about him I can see why Luis Bunuel slapped him

[DS1]

21. You and I share similar opinions

Christo can suck it. Pollack sucks. Basquiat was equally useless. You have that high-level ability that they did not. That painting you posted of you in the bathroom, I could tell there was a window to your right just from the reflection of the chrome plumbing. I didn't mention it at the time, because I didn't want you to think I'd got into your head.

[jpgray]

22. Just looking for recommendations of contemporary artists people enjoy

[mitchum]

24. I really like Koons (much to the shock and disappointment of some...

who know me)
Yes, his work does celebrate the banal and silly, but it's done with such glee. When I win the lottery, I am buying one of the bunnies

Also:
Longo
Currin
Freud
Bacon

and Pollock and Johns still get me off

[swag]

27. In the cafe at SFMOMA once, I was eating lunch with a bond trader

when I noticed that Cicciolina was being interviewed at a table across the cafe. I said to the bond trader, "That's Cicciolina, she's Jeff Koons' ex-wife, a porn star, and a former member of the Italian parliament" (yes, I speak like that).

The bond trader said, "Who's Jeff Koons?"

I said, "He's this American artist who does a lot of different things. He did a bunch of life-size sculptures of the two of them fucking and stuff."

The bond trader says, "Dude, she doesn't look hot enough to be a porn star."

[swag]

28. Oops

[jpgray]

29. Thanks! This has been a very helpful thread

[swag]

30. Some other people who are still working

Gerhard Richter is good. I spent a nice day with his retrospective at MOMA a few years ago.

Lucas Samaras is versatile.

I also love Cindy Sherman's photographs.

Bill Viola is a fantastic video artist.

I like Bruce Naumann, but his work is not to everyone's liking. I spent most of my birthday in the "Clown Torture" installation 10 and a half years back.

I haven't kept up with most of the young hotshots. I saw some big ugly thing of Damien Hirst's in downtown Manhattan last month with a bunch of dead mammals suspended in formaldehyde. It failed to grab me, though I think that if I had seen that at age 23, I would have been all excited about it.

I don't care about Rachel Whiteread either.

[jpgray]

31. I've seen some formaldehyde cows. It's a pretty blue

He should do one of Annie Sprinkle's cats and credit it as a collaboration.

[pitohui]

36. yeah i like gerhard richter also EOM

[bridgit]

33. hm...

[pitohui]

35. can someone help me with this one?

there is a well-regarded german artist who in recent years did a lot of work with light in a lot of different media

example, making shadows on a white wall, another example, old astronomical photos in black/white incorporated into the photos

marvelous stuff and stupid me i forgot to write down his name and i can't find him on google

also for anyone needing a brush-up on modern art, i say visit the tate modern in london, it's free, and it's absolutely wonderful, the more art-educated people probably already know about this stuff, but for the rest of us, it's just great, two discoveries i much liked i made there are anish kapoor and rachel whiteread

i'll try to go link to some of their work in a minute if i can find it online

here is the rachel whiteread that was installed in the turbine room at tate modern a few years back, the photo doesn't give the full coolness of people running around in this and also the art police in their green vests stopping the kids from running and it was just very entertaining to the eye:



the kapoor's i've found don't do him justice, could be a case of "you gotta be there"

[Heidi]

41. I believe you're thinking of Gerhard Richter.

He's one of my favorite European painters.

http://www.gerhard-richter.com/art/results_painting.php?ss=1&catID=51

[pitohui]

49. thanks why didn't i realize that before?

i didn't put that particular exhibit together with the colorful paintings that i've seen that i knew were by richter

i guess we may blame jet lag

this guy is a damn genius if you ask me, very impressive body of work

[Heidi]

50. I'm a total dork, I'm sure,

but I'm just so happy that jpgray's OP has begun a meaningful discussion of art. It's the best DU Christmas Eve gift for which I could have wished.

Like you, I'm blown away by Gerhard Richter. His technical expertise is stunning, and he really has tapped into modern collective consciousness with his subject matter.

[pitohui]

51. plus his work ireally draws you in when seen in person

with some modern art, once you get the idea, you have the whole thing, the guy frying up his liposuction fat and serving it to his pals for dinner, okay, i don't have to be there to get the idea

with richter there is for me an enduring physical presence when you actually see the art, kind of hard to explain, but you can't get the whole idea just from hearing the executive summary, i think ultimately this is the art that will mean more to people down thru time, it can't be "nushelled," it has to actually be seen to be experienced

does that make sense?

[Monk06]

55. Interesting Richter story .....

He did a number of landscapes of a field behind his house.
Very minimal, a snow covered field with some dry grass poking
through the snow and some trees in the distance.

Seemingly unremarkable until you read the title and discover
that the field is Auschwitz.

The guys backyard borders on Auschwitz. The work gets very
heavy when you read that.

[pitohui]

57. wow i didn't know that

i am not very educated about art and only know of him thru wandering in museums, i'll have to look for some of those pieces

the works i have seen have a very strong impact even at my level, i can only imagine the layers available to be discovered

[Pool Hall Ace]

37. Wait a minute -- who fried food in their own liposucted fat?

Teh googles weren't helpful here.

[swag]

39. Marco Evaristti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Evaristti

On January 13, 2007, Evaristti hosted a dinner party for his most intimate friends. The main meal was agnolotti pasta, on which was topped a meatball made with the artist's own fat, removed earlier in the year in a liposuction operation.

[Heidi]

42. Okay, here's what I'm liking lately. (dial-up warning)

Of all the art produced since World War II, here's what I like right now (and it could change tomorrow). When I think about my taste in contemporary art, the common thread is that all of the artists whose work I admire really have a high level of technical expertise with their materials, but they also know how to use their materials as a means of expression. There are many, many contemporary artists whose work I love, but here are eight that come to mind.

Figurative


Gerhard Richter, especially his Ordinary Life series



Scott B. Goodwillie, who calls himself a Surrealist, but whose work is often characterized as Magical Realism



Chuck Close



Robert Crumb


Non-figurative


Leda and the Swan, 1962
Cy Twombly



Robert Rauschenberg



Marcia Meyers


http://www.kashyahildebrand.org/geneva/morgan/morgan002.html
">Cole Morgan

[jpgray]

45. Yay! Thank you very much, Heidi

:hi:

[Heidi]

47. I think you and your thread must be my Christmas Eve good luck charm!

Cuz I just sold a painting: 30 x 30 cm, oil on prepared paper. Title: "Holy Cow." I'll try to get a photo before the client pays and picks it up. :bounce:

Thank you for caring about art enough to ask the questions most of us ask ourselves, jpgray! :hug:

[jpgray]

53. I'm really glad so many people with well-developed tastes and experience have dropped in

It's extremely helpful. :D

[harmonicon]

44. I'm glad you're aware enough to know it's ignorance

I sometimes feel the same way... I have an MFA degree from an arts school, but it's in music, not fine art. I do have some sort of education in it though, from taking art history classes, and knowing people who are active in the field. Being educated about it is really the thing.... I don't buy this crap that "you like it or you don't" - that's crazy. People say that about music too, but it's B.S. We know and like things because of the place they hold in our culture and personal relationships. You can't ask art to be something to you that it isn't. I don't get experimental physics - it's not because experimental physicists are out of touch with the common man.

All of that being said, my favourite artist of all time was a German guy named Mauser who died last year. He's not well known, but his work is in a few museums. He made hand-made clay tiles, did performances with sand, and made works by fixing slightly reflective rice paper to walls. His work was the most pure and honest art I've ever encountered. A friend of his who's work I also like is Christoph Nicolaus. He makes what he calls "light drawings" by burning lines into paper with a magnifying glass. Sure, they're just lines, but they are also a beautiful result from the interaction of the paper, the sun and the artist's hand - really incredible and sophisticated (not in the high-society sense) work.

If you like figurative stuff, I think the best out there is a guy in San Francisco named Matt Delight. He also does comics and illustration, but his fine art is top-notch as well. And he's got a flickr page! (I'm too dumb to actually link a picture to this post): http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdelight/2048116509/

[jpgray]

46. There is something to be said about delicacy of taste, and I don't have it with a lot of modern art

It's like the Don Quixote story of Sancho's family's appreciation of wine--there are those who just taste wine (me) and those who can detect a leather or iron aftertaste. The latter seem crazy until the key with a leather strap is discovered at the bottom of the barrel. :P

Despite being a music snob, Cecil Taylor's music has a similar revealing effect on me. I know Taylor's well-trained and the music is strictly composed, but it still sounds like an army of heavy cats on a piano to me most times.

[harmonicon]

48. but you didn't grow up listening to the music Cecil Taylor listened to

I think that was more of my point sort of. I just don't like when people say they just like or don't like something without being able to back up why (more when they say they like things, because there are reasons, even if they're not aware of them - for disliking things, foreignness is often an easy enough answer). I'm a musician, and I know that probably 10 years ago, and definitely 20 years ago (when I was just a kid), I would have hated the music that I make now. Same goes for what I listen to. It's just that one thing leads to another and we see things in a different light - especially when we know the intricacies of what goes into making them. I had some similar feelings as you about contemporary art, but taking some art history courses changed my mind (it also made me dislike some things I'd previously liked).

[jpgray]

52. But we can enjoy artists about whom we know little to nothing, from cultures we know little about

Whereas increasingly in modern art it seems if you are confronted with a big yellow square on canvas (I think that's in the MMA), you have to know who painted it, what "school" that person belongs to, who his or her teachers and influences were, what the critics say, etc., etc. Whereas Rembrandt intaglios remain fucking great etchings even if you know next to nothing about the guy. In a way it's very stupid and limiting to say one is better than the other--they're very different in some ways--but it does make me think occasionally that absent critical backing and ubiquitous personality marketing, many modern artists wouldn't be considered as such.

Did I mention I was ignorant? :P

[harmonicon]

54. I think you're partly correct

We can enjoy these things from other cultures also because of the foreignness. The only non-western music I know about is shona music from Zimbabwe, and I can say what is and isn't good about it. Sure, anyone could like it on the first listen, but to know which records are better or worse takes (most importantly) a lot of listening to determine the exact things you like about it, and some knowledge of what the music is and isn't at it's core to judge which records even fall into the same realm to be judged (no point comparing shona music by Cosmos Mugaya to the Beatles, for instance, but you can compare The Beatles to Donovan). That part I think you're partly right about.

As far as the coloured squares v. Rembrandt, you're right that there is no point in comparing them, but I think you're completely wrong about Rembrandt being inherently great. You've grown up in a culture that is festooned with figurative representation, and subconsciously building up a set of tools by which to critique these figurative representations. Can you even remember the first time you saw a picture of the "Mona Lisa", or "The Last Supper"? These things are ingrained in our culture - I'm sure you can't remember the first time you learned that painting and drawing meant paintings and drawings of people and things. If you'd only ever been exposed to abstract art, these Rembrandt-y things would seem foreign - how would you be able to compare Da Vinci to a Wheaties box?

[bicentennial_baby]

58. You said intaglio....

i <3 u bad... :loveya:

[jpgray]

59. Ha! I've done a lot of copper plate intaglio

They're a blast to mess with. Though the mineral spirits and ferric acid have no doubt shortened my lifespan. :D

[bicentennial_baby]

60. I've only done zinc...

And yeah, I've read the OSHA pages on it... :scared:

:*

[madeline_con]

56. Isn't Mondrian the guy who did the squares?

Van Gogh is just fine. If we never get a modern equivalent, it's just as well. He rocked. :)