Am I A Victim of Workplace Discrimination? Please Comment.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

As some of you know I was laid off a few weeks ago from a company I had been with for 7 months. The reason was based on company cost-cutting and not performance. I was the company's Number Two Salesperson, had blown away my quota for two quarters and was on track to make my number for the year. I built a territory from scratch, and leveraged my previous contacts to get appointments and deals for this company. I was the only salesperson laid off, and three additional employees were let go from other departments-all women.

The bulk of my territory (New England)-and the part where all the deals were in the process of closing-was given to another salesguy. He has only been with the company a few months, and is located in southern Virginia! There is a woman sales rep in NJ who can DRIVE to Boston in 3 hours, and they gave my territory to a guy that has to take a $1000 flight to get to Boston. So much for cost-cutting.

As is typical in my business, I also asked if I could get the commission on the deals that I had brought to the final stages and were set to close this quarter. The company had compensated two previous employees for deals that were in their pipeline (they were both men, and both quit). The management told me no.

I am a bit miffed by all this. I am being courted by two competitors of the company from which I was laid off, and since I never signed a non-compete, I consider the leads and deals my property. Should I see a lawyer about a possible discrimination suit? I also assume that if I end up working for a competitor, my former employer will come at me with guns blazing. Any advice will be greatly apppreciated!

Thanks,
RR

[molly]

1. Go for it!!!!

you did not sign a non-compete.

on edit - the employment laws now do not protect anyone from firing - you would be wasting your money getting an attorney. I know 3 people and 2 of them went to an attorney only to be told about the "right to fire".

My idea of the best revenge is to hire into the competor and take back the business that is rightfully yours. Hurry!!!!

[pw]

Definitely consult a lawyer

Even if you didn't sign a noncompete, the company may be able to claim misappropriation of trade secrets or some such hooey. You want to be on firm legal ground. A lawyer might also be able to get you a nice settlement on either the layoff or the commissions or both.

You obviously don't want to work for these bozos any more regardless.

[northernsoul]

2. I'm going to be a labor / employment lawyer in 3 years

unfortunately, I don't start my law school classes until next week, so as of right now I don't have any good advice to give you.

This is exactly the kind of case I'd like to working, though!

Let me know what happens

[TXlib]

3. No non-compete, go for it.

And take your clients with you.

Poach everything you can.

[activationproducts]

4. Be careful!

It sounds like someone was out to get you from the start. Be careful using customer leads obtained in your old position to get sales for the competition. If these folks are as ruthless as it sounds they could do anything if they catch on to your using what they consider their property.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. I never signed a non-compete

and some of those clients were mine prior to my employment with this company.

I just left a message for a labor/employment lawyer. The way I look at it, you cannot stop a laid-off employee from trying to earn a living.

[trof]

5. You may have a case.

I'm not an attorney, but put all your "evidence" down in black and white with all the hard documentation you can assemble.
I'm assuming you're a woman and all those laid off were.
I think an attorney will not charge you for an initial consultion and tell you whether you have the makings of a case or not.
However, if it's a demonstrable case of last hired, first fired, then no.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Sign up, and take those clients!!

The other company did their thing, now you do your thing.

All is fair and square in the business world, and quid pro quo works for the good as well as the dickish.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say anything about legal, but morally and ethically, you're free and clear to go elsehwere, and bring your customers with you.

[Droopy]

8. It depends

It looks like you've been discriminated against, but what wiil the costs be to you to pursue a lawsuit? If you win will your legal fees be paid?

I'd say this. First take a job at one of the competitors as well as the business you've generated. Then go speak to a lawyer about the situation. Then balance the risk and costs.

It would suck to have to let it go, but with a new job and successful accounts it might be better after you weigh it out.

[newyawker99]

28. Congrats Droopy!! 400 posts

:toast:

[flyingfish]

9. Does your place of employment have a collective bargaining

contract that stipulates what happens when employees are laid off or were you directly told that they were laying you off because of a specific reason-age, gender, race, etc...?
If not, go file at the unemployment office and start worry about getting another job.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. Reason for lay-off: reorganization, cost-cutting

sales people are expensive. My fear is that they used me to build a territory (I am well-connected up here, and very good at building pipeline).

I have two possibilities, as I mentioned, with my former company's competitors. In my conversations with them, I have not revealed anything confidential, nor do I plan to. But I view my contacts and pipeline as my property.

[Divernan]

10. Always get it in writing.

RE: your request for compensation of commissions on deals in the pipeline, similar to those your company compensated males salesmen for when they quit, put your request in writing, including each of the deals you negotiated and the amount of the deals and the amount of compensation to which you beleive you are entitled. Point out that the company policy has been to compensate MALE salesmen who left for their immediately pending deals. Include the names of those salesmen and the type of deals they were compensated for - to establish that the only thing different between those MALE salesmen and you is that you are a FEMALE. It will also establish that you have the facts to use to pursue them in court. Point out that such treatment of you by them is actionable as sex discrimination (suit by EEOC) and also violation of accepted business practise (private civil suit by you). Tell them that:
(1)you want to be paid these commissions at the time the deals
close (or whatever SPECIFIC time re the deals that you would have
been paid the commission had you remained employed)- the point is
for you to identify a specific time frame for payment.
(2)Tell them that if they disagree with any of the specifics in
your letter, they are to notify you in detail of same.
(3)Tell them you want a written response to your letter
and tell them they date by which you expect to receive
this response.
(4) Send your letter registered, return receipt requested
to multiple parties at your employers - your immediate supervisor, the personnel department and the president of the
company.
(5) Tell them if you do not receive a satisfactory response by the above date, you will contact an attorney and initiate legal action.
(6) Never make a threat you do not carry out. If they ignore you or in any way blow you off, see an attorney.

ON EDIT: Do not talk to these people on the phone, because NOTHING they say on the phone is binding on them.

[flyingfish]

14. Don't write this letter right away

Instead, ask for a letter that includes your position, responsibilites, starting date and ending date(do not include why you left) and that you received satisfactory marks.
Ask only for these things from HR.
Nothing else in the letter besides the company's name and possibly what they sell/manufacture.

This way, you always have the letter to show to future potential employers. Everything looks good and it

Don't get POed now, do something rash, and then have it follow you forever.

No one likes to hire someone they feel will be a royal pain in the ass or may hurt the image of the company if something happens in the future.

Right now, worry about your future, not your past.
If you get another job, maybe take legal action if you still feel it is necessary.
Sounds like right now you are just bitter.

[flyingfish]

15. I meant the letter that I replied to, no the letter that I suggested

I was in a similar position once, but it was the way I got terminated.
They basically wanted to find a way to can me because I point out some violations that occurred.
Basically, I was a whistle-blower.
Also, you may want to write a letter to the company President/CEO thanking him for the privilege of working for the company.
Just something short. Nothin negative at first
If you get a reply, maybe address some of the issues you pointed out.
Remember, you attract more bees with honey.

[Ilsa]

11. Have your attorney tell your former employer to

BEND OVER!

Yeah, be careful, but check out your options. Sometimes bullies need to get knocked around a little to learn how to play fair.

[flyingfish]

13. Depends on your state's employment laws, also

At-will employees are just that-at your company's will.

Collective bargaining contracts ensure proper lay off protocol is followed.

Sounds like you are up the creek if no contract or no reason such as age, gender, etc... is given which violates state/federal law.

Like I mentioned before, use your endergies to go to the unemployment office and to look for another job.
You may burn a bridge here an not be able to use it to cross over the river again.
You never know-they may call you back in the near future-If you get a lawyer, they may say F$&* it if they ever do want to call you back.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

16. I don't burn bridges, and I asked the VP of sales for a formal explanation

he has not returned my calls or emails.

[flyingfish]

18. Request the letters, then

Get the info in writing that I told you to get.

[Lady President]

17. Doubtful on the suit, take the new job

Unfortunately, I'm currently unemployed and was laid off in a similar fashion~ only women downsized and all solid workers. I don't have a leg to stand on and likely neither do you. (sorry)

The problem you are facing is that you were so new that it gives your employer too many excuses to fire you. Truthful or not, they can say they gave you a shot and it didn't work, or they fired you on a "last hired, first fired" basis. Companies can get away with a lot if they use the LIFO method because it supposedly shows that loyalty to the company is rewarded and it seems fair on the surface. It's also difficult to show a pattern of firing women when only three people were fired (unless it's a fairly large company the purged all its women). Assuming you were at-will employee, it is even tougher.

On the other hand, definitely take the job with a competitor. There is no reason you shouldn't and if your former employer comes after you, then it is harassment. Even if you had signed a non-compete contract, under these circumstance, you could get out of it without a problem.

Employment and labor law was my focus in law school, but I have never practiced in this area, so there are probably people here that can help more.

Good luck with you job search!!

[TreasonousBastard]

19. You'll have to talk to a good labor lawyer...

about any potential action against the old employer, but it doesn't sound from what you've said here like you have a case. I'm no expert, but it seems that there have to be solidly defined discrimination problems, like you can prove they fired you because of a pattern of gender or race discrimination, which doesn't appear here.

At any rate, go for the new job and be very clear with the new employer about your old customer base. There shouldn't be any legal problem with you poaching your old customers-- many salespeople are hired just for that reason, but they may have reasons to avoid hassles, like those customers having tough contracts with the old employer. If they give you the go-ahead, in writing would be nice, and they look like they're going to back you up, well, you know how to get a much sweeter and more lucrative revenge than a lawsuit...

It sounds like you already went through this "old customer" thing with the ex employer anyway, so you have an idea how to work it.

(And you know how they all keep their promises.)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. In one of my last lives...

I was a legal assistant to an attorney who specialized in employment discrimination cases. They can be incredibly tough to prove -- you would have to show that your firing had specifically to do with you being a woman, and probably back it up by showing the company had a history of doing this.

I would probably focus on trying to get your commissions from them and perhaps bringing the woman issue in from that standpoint. It sounds like they had established a clear precedent for handling the two other employees' departures and they deviated from it in your case. Now THAT is something to go after.

As for taking your business contacts with you -- check with an attorney. Also, the businesses may have signed a contract with your old company that forbids them from doing business with a former associate of your old company for one year. This is not an uncommon business practice designed to stop poaching after an employee is fired/laid off.

Good luck.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

21. These are all small companies

I'm not looking for revenge. But the best revenge is hitting them where they hurt: revenues.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

22. Kickie-poo

for the after-work crowd

:kick:

[geniph]

23. I'd contact the EEOC

and the state department of L&I and ask both if they think you have a valid claim. If you did sue, be clear about your objectives in suing; in other words, what do you hope to gain from doing so? If it's your commissions, focus on that.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

24. I think fiscal vengence is punishment enough

but I called today to get copies of my HR records (offer letter, compensation plan, any other document) in order to have a paper trail. I need this in case they decide to come after me for anything...without my signature on a non-compete, I can't imagine what they could do.

[molly]

25. Legally - if a potential employer

calls for a reference, the only thing they are permitted to give out is your dates of employment. The one question that they can legally ask is if the company would rehire you.

Non-compete contracts usually state a specified amount of time - say 6 months to 1 year.

[LawDem]

26. For what it's worth -- my thoughts

I'm not a labor lawyer, but I think this is good advice:

-- Talk to a lawyer;

--But make your employment decision (whether to stay or go) based upon your best business judgment, not on any possible lawsuit against your employer;

--Discrimination cases are tough to prove under the best of circumstances and with the federal courts increasingly conservative it's getting tougher all the time: But listen to a local labor lawyer;

--As a litigator, I will tell you that many people screw up their lives by throwing their entire beings into a lawsuit: When that happens it almost always hurts the person pursuing the legal crusade more than the company being sued. It can drain the life out of you;

--In other words, talk to a lawyer and sue or do not sue depending on the advice you receive and what makes the most sense in your life. But either way move on down the road with your life;

--By the way, it sounds like you need to speak to a lawyer even if you have no interest in taking legal action. A good labor lawyer can help you "take the leap" to a new company in a way that reduces the risk of liability to your current employer.

Good luck!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

27. Thanks, LawDem

I am going to talk to a lawyer to make sure that they cannot come after me if I go to a competitor. I have heard of companies going after former employees because of 'competitive intelligence'-even if they never signed a non-compete.

Thanks for your advice!

[private_ryan]

29. NOT a lawyer BUT

if they want you to not compete they usually have to pay a certain amount of $$ in exchange for it. This is what you do for a living and they can't stop from doing it.

I remember reading this somewhere as I was doing research. Even if you signed (I know you said you didn't) it can be thrown out if it's not fair /slanted.