Loungers who thought that Braveheart was crap

[Orrex]

I'm talking not the Carebear, but about Mel Gibson's film.

Did you think that it was crap before his anti-Semitic, torture-porn psychotic breakdown?

[mondo joe]

1. It would be a stinker even if it starred Michael Moore or Alec Baldwin or Nick Nolte.

Except then it would be a funny stinker.

[Deep13]

18. Michael Moore? Bowling for Stirling? The Bruce and me?

:shrug:

[DS1]

2. I threw my Mel Gibson DVDs in the oven after his breakdown and arrest

:hide:

[quip]

3. That's hawt!

[Ano Genitus]

17. From my cold dead hand!

Re. The Road Warrior, at any rate. That's the only one I own or am interested in owning. It seems to predate his nastiness by enough time, at least by my finely-tuned ethical standards.

[Quantess]

4. Crap or not-crap?

I know I saw at least part of it, but it was unmemorable. I don't remember how good or sucky it was. So I answered choice #2.

[Aristus]

5. I knew it was a piece of unwatchable crap long before I discovered

what a right-wing tool Gibson is.

[AlCzervik]

6. Epic crap just like Troy, although Troy seemed like a parody--still crap though.

[Deep13]

12. I really liked Troy.

I especially liked the nihilistic views if Achilles. "Somebody has to lose." Also, the subject of religion versus rationality was pretty starkly presented. The characters are fleshed-out a little more in the director's cut.

[AlCzervik]

14. i thought Troy was hilarious, seriously, they had me at "Helen's run off....with the trojans!"

[youthere]

15. I liked Troy for the same reason I liked Gladiator,300 and Braveheart...

Guys in skirts/kilts. Very hot. I can never go to Scotland because I would become some kind of nympho and probably get arrested.

[Quantess]

21. I remember seeing an adult magazine.....playgirl?

with photos of a Scottish looking red haired man wearing a kilt with nothing underneath.
Also, lying suggestively on the bed.

I don't remember who showed the dirty mag to me, or how I saw it. I was just a vulnerable teen. I just may have picked it up off the shelf and looked, knowing me.

[youthere]

7. You have to admit...it had a great ending...

Gibson being drawn and quartered ALWAYS deserves an award in my book.

[Tyler Durden]

10. Especially since when the ax came down, his nuts and dick had already been ripped off.

That part is particularly gratifying. But I figure any Mel Movie I own already is paid for and the only one who loses in that bargain is ME. Payback is still a periodic watch.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

8. I found it difficult to watch

Mel's accent drifted from Scotland, to Ireland, to South Africa, to America, to Australia and back to Scotland again.

Never mind the fact that William Wallace stood about 6'8" in reality.

As an action film it wasn't bad, but I don't think it was worthy of its Academy Awards.

[Deep13]

9. Really enjoyed the film despite historical errors and ...

... an over-the-top performance by Gibson. Now that I know what a psychopath he is, I can't watch it anymore. Same with Mad Max. And it is not just his Passion film or his bigotry towards Jews either. It's everything.

[Swede]

11. Why would I judge a person because of a drunken tirade.

I'd have no friends left,if I did that.

[grace0418]

13. I loathed Mel Gibson long before his breakdown. I always thought he was an

egomaniacal asshole and every movie he was in just had to make him the hero with the hot ass. Yuck. "What Women Want"? Count me out.

Braveheart wouldn't have been my kind of movie regardless of the lead, but he made it worse.

[stanwyck]

20. He lost me after "The Year of Living Dangerously"

Which is the last movie I remember with him that was decent. He was fine in "Mad Max" and "Gallipoli". I believe "Bird on a Wire" resembles absolutely the worst of Hollywood. Totally agree about "What Women Want" Creepy on so many levels. I watched the Academy Awards last night and the silence that greeted Mel's image as the different montages were shown told the story. His anti-Semitic rant has made him an outcast in that community. As well it should.

[Skittles]

22. I have long, long refused to see that bastard's films

absolutely

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. I wouldn't say it was crap, but it certainly wasn't good.

And my opinion has nothing to do with Mel's politics or religious beliefs. People who base their appreciation of art on the politics or religion of the artist make me sick.

It just wasn't a very good film.

[SteppingRazor]

19. I thought it was an entertaining movie. However, I strongly disagree with...

the underlying theme of this and so many other Gibson films -- redemption through suffering.

It likely goes back to the man's strong Catholic faith, but I think the Christian religions kind of dropped the ball there. Here we have a guy whose entire message was loving everyone -- up to and including your worst enemies -- and for some reason, the most important part of his life is his torturous death, because in his death, supposedly, there is redemption for mankind. But that's just something Christians tacked onto it afterward to give it meaning. That entire theme, redemption through suffering, is a horrific invalidation of not only everything that Jesus stood for (if we are to take the man at his words put down in the Bible), but, I think, also everything we as a human race should be moving toward.

Trying to find grace and goodness in pain and anguish is simply a not-so-clever attempt to justify all the pain and anguish in the world. Instead of doing that, we should recognize that pain and suffering are not our natural state, and that we should therefore do whatever we can to eradicate these things, and to live our lives in as little pain -- and causing as little pain to others -- as humanly possible.

All too often, Christianity emphasizes that Jesus suffered, died and rose again after three days (granted, a neat trick), instead of emphasizing his own message -- that we should treat everyone else as we would like to be treated, and that, when others cause us pain, our response should not be vengeance, but instead, forgiveness.

There is no redemption through suffering. But there is grace in forgiving suffering caused to us, and in doing our level best to avoid causing pain to others. But in Braveheart, as in nearly Gibson's entire ouevre, we find a man who is all too ready to glorify anguish as a means to happiness. And if there is a God, I cannot imagine that this is his/her/its plan.

Whew! Forgive my getting off on a rant here. I've been turning over this anti-redemption through suffering thing in my head since reading a story in last month's Esquire (the Best and Brightest issue), in which the magazine's touted latest-best-thing in fiction was a writer with a similar outlook viz-a-viz this theme. I found the short story he wrote for that issue of Esquire as repugnant as I find Gibson's films, though in both cases I grant that there is talent in the artistry.

[pokerfan]

23. Rob Roy was better

The other Scottish period piece that came out that year.