Are You Easily Offended?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

I recently used the term "firewater" in a post in GDP - It was in reference to Hillary downing shots of Canadian Whiskey. Although I knew that I would be called on even mentioning Hillary and drinking I was not prepared for actually offending anyone with the use of the word "firewater" I have seen so many people in the DU that take offense over the most innocent comments that it is getting under my skin. I am 1/3 Native American - My Mother was mostly Cheyenne. I do not take offense easily over such generic terms. FIREWATER to me is not offensive and I love cigar store indians... - In fact a well known band is called Firewater - I could not care less. I had to recall that Seinfeld episode where Jerry keeps accidently making reference to things Native American - Like calling a guy selling tickets a "scalper." Does everything have to be apologized for in this place?

Let's find out!

[datasuspect]

1. some people really enjoy being victims

they like to point out the shortcomings of everyone else and project their nastiness and hatred on other people.

some of the most rotten people i notice on DU (for example) are quick to throw various -phobe labels, but show little restraint in checking their own personal nastiness.

i think they make caricatures of their positions on purpose.

this applies to grief swarmers as well.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

3. I concur

and agree....

[Inchworm]

6. I agree

You said what I meant... better. :P

:hi:

[siligut]

11. People have beliefs.

Some of that stuff goes deep, can’t really tell people to lighten up, especially when they feel they are good and moral, well you can try, but lightening up is pretty much the opposite of being righteous.

Some people get validation through, and identity from, their issues, though few would admit it.

Anyway, I voted that the lord loves a workingman, which cracked me up.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. grief swarmers???

[mainegreen]

2. No, and your insinuation that I might be offends me.

:7

[CreekDog]

4. i am easily offended

by Rush music. :think:

[TZ]

16. I am easily offended

by people who assume that a person with "eah" on the end of their nickname MUST be a woman....:P

[CreekDog]

42. you should get a hobby so you have something to think about while you type

:rofl:

and you thought I was chicken! :rofl:

[Inchworm]

5. I think some people look to be offended

They just read threads looking for anything so they can say it bothers them.

I think it is just how some people approach communication.

:hi:

[Squatch]

7. Gotta link to that thread?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

48. Uh...

Yes... Yes I do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5503915

[NoPasaran]

70. I'm offended by people who ask for links

With their implied reference to the shameful legacy of slavery...




Or sausage.

[eyepaddle]

8. What do you mean by that!?!

But seriously, it is pretty damn testy around here these days. I'm sorry.

FYI I voted for "See a Doctor..." because I just don't know what that means! :silly:

[SeattleGirl]

9. Some folks around here seem to have fogotten to put on their

sense of humor when they got dressed for the day.

And I agree; there are those who are masters of Projection 101, finding all kinds of fault with others, but not applying the same laser beam of scrutiny on themselves.

God help me if I ever get THAT humorless! (Oh, did my use of the word "God" offend anyone?)

[Orsino]

10. None of the above.

Sure, people should be careful about whom they might offend, but everything is potentially offensive to someone. My beef is that when someone points out the offensiveness of certain terminology, that person is often told, directly or not, that s/he shouldn't be offended. Recrimination and self-justification ensue, without acknowledgment that there is usually more than one way a sane and considerate person could interpret words.

We don't get to decide how other people should feel, folks.

[SeattleGirl]

12. You have a point.

However, I often see responses to someone who used a word or wording that someone finds offensive that accuse the person of being deliberately sexist, racist, ageist, etc., when in fact the person using said word may not have considered it such at all. The better way, IMHO, would be for the offended person to explain why the word/wording is offensive without immediately pouncing on the person who used it. If the user then turns into an asshole and doesn't even acknowledge that others may find offense in what they said, then the pouncing is warranted.

Not getting to decide how others should feel works both ways.

[datasuspect]

13. but by the same token, each person is responsible for their own feelings

and no one person is the center of the universe. that's just part of being a grown up. you just deal with shit. there are TONS of things that offend me. and they usually are things that most people do and take for granted as normal.

i can't expect the world to adapt to me. i am too small and rather cosmically insignificant to consider myself that important.

i always go back to the old adage, "let me understand, rather than be understood."

[WildEyedLiberal]

14. Maybe not, but we also shouldn't feel guilty every time someone decides to get offended either

If everything is indeed potentially offensive to someone, and at the same time we aren't allowed to tell people that they shouldn't be offended, then that leaves two options:

1) No one should ever say anything remotely off-color or sarcastic because someone might be offended

or

2) Those people who do get offended should understand that, on an internet message board with thousands of posters, someone is bound to make a statement that they personally find offensive or unfunny, and rather than get red-faced with outrage, maybe it's better to just ignore the thread or click somewhere else.

I have a pretty thick skin, but I see comments on DU that offend me pretty routinely. I'm Catholic, and with the pope's visit this week, I've seen all sorts of jokes and "clever" commentary that I find, at the very least, insensitive, and at worst, ugly. But it would be a complete waste of my time to reply with righteous indignation to everyone who mocks my religion, because a) they don't care b) this isn't a Catholic message board and I shouldn't expect everyone to show proper deference and respect to my particular religious beliefs. Sure, it'd be nice if people exhibited more common courtesy, but they don't. Hell, a lot of the time, I don't - it all depends on who or what is being mocked and whose ox is being gored.

I don't think this thread is about people who are being over-the-top offensive - people like that usually do get called out by the majority of posters here. But when it comes to little off-color jokes or a specific word (anyone remember the "douchebag" wars?), it's probably better to just let it go. If you interact with other human beings, it is inevitable that you will at some point be offended. It's better to choose your battles.

[datasuspect]

15. what you so eloquently said

[Orsino]

26. A third option...

...is to acknowledge offense when it happens, and to apologize for offense inadvertently given--to make sure we offend only those we mean to. B-)

[Initech]

17. I'm not offended by anything anymore.

And if you are, I suggest taking a cold look at the world in which we live and shutting the fuck up!

[datasuspect]

18. the immortal words of wisdom: shut the fuck up!

i wholeheartedly agree with you.

some of these menchildren and womenchildren around here need a good smack of reality right in the ass.

bravo!

[Zuiderelle]

19. I'm not personally offended by much, but I am offended on behalf of others.

So when someone says that something I say is offensive, I'm careful to understand why. And if something someone else says is very likely to be offensive to someone else, then I am first to object. Calling me a dyke might not be offensive to me personally, but it is an offensive thing to call me for a variety of reasons, so I will object. Calling an African American a n****r may not be personally offensive to me, but it is extremely offensive, so I will object. Calling someone fat may not personally offend me, but it's an offensive thing to say, so I again, will be the first to object.

I don't think it takes that much effort or intelligence to be able to discern where to pull back offensive language, and where it might be acceptable.

[quip]

27. Your distinctions don't make sense to me

What is the difference if somethings generally offends you, or if something personally offends you? You are still offended. Further, I don't believe that it is possible to be offended "on behalf of others." You can be embarrassed or indignant about offensive behavior directed at somebody, but not for them. A sense of outrage over uncivil behavior is different than being offended by it, I think.

Does that make sense? :hi:

[Zuiderelle]

29. I am definitely offended on behalf of African Americans for racism they experience

through offensive words. Of course I can be offended for them. There's a difference between being personally offended and being compassionate towards others and being offended on their behalf. Being offended on behalf of someone else is like putting yourself in someone else's shoes. I think it's a pretty good thing to be able to do.

What does it matter if my words don't make sense to you? It's what I feel.

[quip]

34. This might be a semantical issue. If you put yourself in someone else's shoes, haven't

you just made the offense in question a personal offense?

[Zuiderelle]

35. Yes, it must be semantics. Because it is not personal.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. if someone calls me stupid, its a personal offense. if someone calls all indians stupid

i take offense on behalf on my community.

it makes sense.

[quip]

33. Don't you think that they should be able to be offended for themselves?

And what happens when you are offended by something on behalf of someone, and yet THEY find no personal offense? Doesn't that seem a little odd?

[Zuiderelle]

36. What about if you are "outraged" and yet they find no personal offense?

Isn't that just as odd?

[quip]

37. It does sound odd, but a specific example would help clarify I think.

[Zuiderelle]

38. Then let's use the example in which you object to me being offended on behalf of someone else.

If I'm outraged that someone uses the n-word when addressing an African American, and that person being addressed is not offended, then isn't it odd?

I don't think it's odd at all, since you are also outraged for all the other people who might read that particular pejorative and be offended by it. I myself would be offended on their behalf, even if not one single person objects to it, since I know that someone would be deeply offended by it.

[quip]

39. Okay

If I'm outraged that someone uses the n-word when addressing an African American, and that person being addressed is not offended, then isn't it odd?

Yes. So let's imagine a conversation:

Person A: Yo, N-word
Person B: Yo
You: I object to you calling Persona A an N-word
Person A: It's okay, I don't mind it.
You: No, it's not okay. I will be offended on your behalf.
Person B: Why don't you mind your own business?

I don't think it's odd at all, since you are also outraged for all the other people who might read that particular pejorative and be offended by it. I myself would be offended on their behalf, even if not one single person objects to it, since I know that someone would be deeply offended by it.

Presumably. Why don't you just speak for yourself, and let others speak for themselves? Personally, I don't want people taking offense for things on my behalf that I may or may not object to. It's arrogance.

[Zuiderelle]

40. To clarify, I am referring to when someone ELSE can HEAR or READ that offensive word.

Not simply when it's a one-on-one conversation that only the non-offended person and I can hear. Seems to me that since this conversation is about being offended by things written HERE, that that would be assumed.

Why don't you not tell me how I should live my life or who I should be offended on behalf of? I really don't care if you don't want people taking offense on your behalf. A lot of people who are offended never speak up about it, so it's left to people like me to defend them (and be offended for them).

I really think you are simply objecting to me now personally (and calling me arrogant simply because of my compassion for others) because for some unknown reason you don't care for me. I think you should put me on ignore if that's the case, because you telling me how I should feel is not going to change how I feel.

[quip]

43. Fair enough.

Not simply when it's a one-on-one conversation that only the non-offended person and I can hear. Seems to me that since this conversation is about being offended by things written HERE, that that would be assumed.

Well, it's been my experience that relying on assumptions isn't usually a good idea. But I'm glad that you clarified.

Why don't you not tell me how I should live my life or who I should be offended on behalf of? I really don't care if you don't want people taking offense on your behalf. A lot of people who are offended never speak up about it, so it's left to people like me to defend them (and be offended for them).

Why don't you not tell me how I should not tell you how you should live your life or who you should be offended on behalf of? :) It's gets pretty regressive pretty quickly. But in fairness to me, I never told you how you should give your life, etc. I'm only trying to discuss a concept that you raised. If people want you to stand up for them, then I say "go for it!" But shouldn't we make sure that that is what people want in the first place? Perhaps their silence is an indication that they are not taking offense. Does that make sense? And what if "a people" aren't monolithic in their thinking? What if some take offense, and some don't? Should you still take offense on behalf of all of them? And what if some are offended by your presumption of what offends them?

All of the answers to these questions, in my mind, is to speak for yourself and let others do the same. One can take offense at whatever one wishes, but the offense should be one's and one's alone.

I really think you are simply objecting to me now personally (and calling me arrogant simply because of my compassion for others) because for some unknown reason you don't care for me. I think you should put me on ignore if that's the case, because you telling me how I should feel is not going to change how I feel.

Not at all. You are taking this too personally. I am speaking generally here about the concept of taking offense on behalf of others, what that means, and whether it is a good idea. Further, if I didn't care about you, I wouldn't be taking the time to discuss this with you. And I'm not asking you to change how you feel, but to explore the ramifications of feeling the way you do.

[Zuiderelle]

50. Well, ok then.

You do what you want, and I'll do what I want.

[quip]

51. I wouldn't have it any other way!

:hi:

[WildEyedLiberal]

45. I think elevating your eagerness to take offense to a Christ-like level of "compassion for others"

does demonstrate quite a bit of arrogance. And let's be perfectly honest: this OP isn't talking about something as blatantly offensive as "the n word," the use of which on DU is verboten, or "dyke," or any other obviously derogatory slurs. It's no surprise that you seem to demonstrate little to no concern over whether the "others" for whom you take offense are actually offended, because after all, your outrage has far more to do with showing off your progressive PC bona fides than it does with actual concern for the real people who are ostensibly "offended." I suppose you'd be one of those people telling the OP that he is insensitive to Native Americans, despite the fact that I doubt you care one way or another what actual Native Americans think about the word "firewater" - because it's all about you showing off your Deep Concern for oppressed minorities. REAL concern for oppressed minorities is a wonderful thing, but then again, real concern tends to actually take the feelings of said minority into account, instead of patronizingly assuming that you know better than they do what should offend them and what shouldn't. Condescending much?

"...so it's left to people like me to defend them (and be offended for them)."

Wow, try not hurt yourself when you come down off the cross.

[Zuiderelle]

49. Aren't you just a ray of sunshine.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

54. Chuckle

I am cracking up....

at you.

But I am not offended.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. Well I'M offended.

Just because you aren't smart enough to be offended, I AM.

:crazy:

[leeroysphitz]

60. OH!!11! BIP.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. i think both i as an indian and my community would be offended. i hardly think offense is exclusive

[QueenOfCalifornia]

53. As someone

who grew up in an Indian community - I am offended by the term "Indian"

(NOT)

I don't really care but a lot of Native Americans do.

See what I mean?

It was an honest use of a word that has no real ill intent.

[Zuiderelle]

56. She's from India.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

57. Well now

How the hell would I know that?



And why are you a fan of Pelosi?

[Zuiderelle]

58. I'm just explaining why she called herself Indian.

Wow, grow a thicker skin already.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. maybe from my name? priyanka?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. umm i am actually from india

:eyes:

[SteppingRazor]

20. This poll deeply offends me. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

21. No, but I'm easily annoyed. This poll, for instance, annoys me.

It is whiny.

[Zuiderelle]

22. LOL, Ditto!

:thumbsup:

[terrya]

23. Whiny polls annoy me to no end.

:thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. lol

[regularguy]

24. I'm like everybody else...

I'm offended by things that I find offensive. I don't find your poll to be an honest quest for answers.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

52. I think you are wrong

I really am trying to figure out why some people seem to ENJOY taking offense at the slightest thing.

I have learned some things from reading the various answers which, as always, are well thought out.

I have had terrible things happen to me (as have you and everyone who is reading this) I try to keep in perspective, that someone typing their thoughts in here do not necessarily have bad intent. Because of where I came from and the path I have walked, I use certain terms and have developed a certain sense of humor. I honestly do not set out to hurt anyone when I use a word like "firewater" and I really do not think that it should be taken so seriously as to mean I do not appreciate what native Americans have endured. If you type the word into Google all kinds of things come up. Products and the band I mentioned. If I had wanted to be offensive, I would have used a lot of other more loaded terms and would have called people nasty names - which I did not.

[Bake]

25. Me, I like firewater.

As long as it comes from Kentucky (I'm kind of a snob about bourbon). I'm offended by people who don't like it.

Bake

[OmahaBlueDog]

47. Bourbon? Where I come from, that's soda pop.

Scotch! This is a drink for a man.

[Bake]

71. Nice flame bait, Scottie!

:rofl:

I've found that most people (well, most people who drink, anyway) enjoy either scotch or bourbon, but not both. Me, I don't really care for scotch. But whatever you enjoy, do it responsibly!

:toast:

Bake

[johnnie]

28. I don't get offended easily

But I know I say a lot that offends others, but I don't do it on purpose. I try to walk softly, but it's too hard to not offend anyone. Honestly, I think many here are way too thin-skinned to be on a forum like this, but that's just my opinion. I'm a bit more "offensive" in real life, but it is just my sense of humor.

[SKKY]

31. What the fuck kind of question is that???!!!

What the fuck are you implying??? :-P

[Lil Missy]

44. Color me naive, but why is the term "firewater" an offense to Native Americans?

:shrug:

I'm not complaining, I'm just asking. I refer to liquor as booze or a cocktail myself. But I wouldn't want to innocently use a culturally sensitive term that might offend someone.

[OmahaBlueDog]

46. OK, I'll take a stab at this

1. It's stereotypical..as in "Yes kimosabe, braves like'em firewater"
2. Alcohol is a huge problem on reservations, so that just makes issue #1 seem worse

Now, in fairness to the OP, I'll share something monumentally stupid I accidentally did. I was in South Dakota on business with a my then-boss, and it was December, and he wanted to go gaming. So, we got in the car, in our winter coats, and drove down to a casino on the Lower Brule Reservation. We walk in and I notice we're getting some hard looks from the natives in the crowd, but I figure they're not thrilled about white folks (and who can blame them), so I go on about my business. After a while of strolling the casino, getting more hard looks, I go to the gentleman's lounge. While washing my hands, I realize that my winter coat is NFL branded apparel of my favorite team -- the Washington Redskins. I about damn near died. I removed the coat, draped it over my arm, went to my boss and demanded the car keys, and locked the offending object in the trunk. Honestly, I'm amazed I didn't get the Hell smacked out of me in the parking lot while doing that.

So there are worse things than saying "firewater."

[Lil Missy]

61. I made a similar serious fro-pa (sp?) in my youth.

I befriended an elderly black woman, and took her on all her errands because she could drive. We'd often meet for an occasional lunch or nice dinner too. She was such a delightful woman and so much fun.

Anyway, one night we got to talking about my college hangout on the way to a dinner function. I told her on the way to the function that Sunday was a good day to plan dinner and stuff, because my hangout was always closed on Sunday.

I said the manager closed out Sundays because only "spooks" show up on Sunday. My intention was to portray bums and grubby old men that usually amount to pests and were a nuisance. And for the record, these were all Caucasian bums.

Boy, did she give me a glare, and was really frosty the rest of the night. We later talked about it, and I honestly had NO IDEA that the term "spook" was a derogatory term to Blacks. I apologized profusely, and promised I would never use the term again. And I never have.

I confess, I am just culturally stupid. And I don't mind if someone confronts me on something I say that could be construed as culturally insensitive. I'd so much prefer to endure a confrontation than to continue making the same mistake.

Live and Learn

[AwakeAtLast]

59. I'm offended that you even had to ask.

;)


Hopefully I didn't need this : :sarcasm:

:hi:

[DS1]

62. Fucking Rec'd with glee!

The results in this thread are classic lounge bullshit.

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. Pretty much everything is...

You are very right,

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. I don't know. That would be up to you to judge/decide.

Are people crass and "tougher" due to the separation that a screen in front of them affords? Probably. But, one gets to the point where it doesn't matter much.

[stuntcat]

66. people are graspin'

Everyone online seems to be just grasping for something to put other people down for, it's effing silly. My husband's Native American and he doesn't take things like this seriously at all, it's just expressions that don't mean any more than the person saying them means.. and heck *I can say firewater all I want, the word doesn't belong to anyone.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. It is teh nutz around here.

:shrug:

[yellowcanine]

72. I am offended that you should even ask.

:evilgrin:

[Adsos Letter]

73. I'm offended that you even asked me this question...

I shall now retire to sulk...loudly...