I think I could heat a small country with my tube amps...

[Pierre.Suave]

Geez do these things put out a lot of heat.

I have an AC thing dedicated just for my listening room to deal with the heat. It sucks that I have to use a window unit because of the noise but it is better than cooking while I listen to music.

[leeroysphitz]

1. It's 2008. You CAN"T tell the difference from TUBES and high end

MODERN equipment. 44000Hz is 44000Hz and even if it weren't the human ear can't deal with anything over 20000Hz so what is the point?. Do you have ceramic cones on the feet of all you components to minimize "vibration" (in a fucking amp)? Yes? Are all of your connections GOLD (not just gold plated)? Yeah? Did your speaker wires cost more than most peoples speakers? Yes? Did you use not only a tape measure but actually break out micrometers when positioning your loud-speakers in relation to your typical listening area? I bet you did. If you have done any remodeling in your music room have you done so with acoustics in mind? Yep?

Well then I officially name you as DU music snob of the millennium.

Having said all that I will admit that I wish I had a cool set up like that. :)

Faithfully submitted,

Lee Roy Sphits.

[Pierre.Suave]

2. I can tell

there is a difference.

The solid state amps sounded very digital and cold compared to these tube amps which are very warm, musical, and very lush while still being very accurate and honest with regards to the representation to the music.

yes, I did break out the measuring equipment to position the speakers and my listening chair.

I love music, I can not help it. My soul desires it.

[pokerfan]

4. How can solid state sound digital

when it's analog and linear?

[Pierre.Suave]

5. Solid State amps are not tube amps

they are something else, not analog.

[pokerfan]

7. Trust me

Transistor amplifiers are very much anaIog. One can make an amplifier out of either transistors or tubes, both operating linearly.

[Pierre.Suave]

8. Ok fine

I like the way these sound versus the ones I had before.

Whether they were analog or not.

[pokerfan]

9. Obviously. I can't comment on that

[Schema Thing]

3. This would be a great topic for Penn and Teller

maybe it could be like the fancy water episode?

[no name no slogan]

6. It depends on the application

If you're doing professional, studio-quality mixing and recording, it CAN make a difference.

And yes, you CAN tell the difference between a guitar going through a tube amp vs. a transistor amp or tube emulation.

Digital is good, but it's not perfect.

[B3Nut]

11. the "tube sound" is actually a mild form of distortion.

Euphonically pleasing distortion, but still distortion. When producing music you *want* to add color and "vibe." Electric guitar and Hammond organ benefit greatly from the intrinsic nonlinearities of tube amplifiers, and I swear by my tube Leslie and tube guitar amp. But I don't want any of that when reproducing recorded music, I want as close to perfect linearity as possible, and that means a good modern solid-state amplifier. And I won't invest in any supposed "tweaks" whose efficacy cannot be demonstrated in a proper bias-controlled double-blind test. There is a *lot* of placebo effect in audio. :)

[pokerfan]

12. My point exactly

It's all about fidelity. The artist can use whatever tools at their disposal to create the music but when it comes to reproduction, it should be done as faithfully as possible. When linear amps are driven out of their linear range, be they tubes or transistor, they distort. Tubes tend to add more even harmonics (integer powers of two) while transistors add odd harmonics. Even harmonics are psychoacoustically more pleasing but it's no longer an accurate reproduction of the source. Now you can make a perfectly cromulent amplifier with either tubes or transistors but it is up to the user to operate them properly.

That said, I am interested in your opinion of the EQ problem in today's recorded music where recording engineers have started boosting the bass assuming that the material will more and more likely be listened to through ear buds or some other tiny transducer that has difficulty reproducing lower frequencies. Of course, the problem is that, when played back through a decent home system, the bass is overwhelming and must then be equalized down. I am of the scientific opinion that this sucks.

And see my other post for my opinion on "designer" speaker wire.

[B3Nut]

13. I'm not as miffed at EQ as I am the wanton misuse of

peak limiting to compress any semblance of dynamics out of the music. The music ends up completely squashed, no variance from loud to soft. It's just a wall of intolerable LOUD, like the boorish idiot WHO TYPES IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME LIKE THIS. Google 'loudness race' for lots of material on the subject. It's the #1 reason why modern CD's sound so horrid, and why an original vinyl record can sound much more lifelike than the "newly-remastered" reissue where they killed the dynamics.

At least ECM Records hasn't forgotten how to do a CD properly, many of their recordings are simply sublime.

[pokerfan]

14. COMPRESSION CAN BE USEFUL

BUT IT SHOULD BE AN OPTION DURING PLAYBACK, NOT BUILT INTO THE RECORDING. MY CAR IS NOT EXACTLY AN OPTIMUM LISTENING ENVIRONMENT, SO I PREFER A LITTLE COMPRESSION. BUT AT HOME, IN THE LIVING ROOM, IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY.

SORRY 'BOUT THE ALL-CAPS BUT YOU KNOW I HAD TO DO IT.

[B3Nut]

18. EXACTLY :o)

It's trivial to put multiband compression in a car head unit since powerful DSP chips are dirt cheap nowadays. You can even have multiple levels of it available. But nooo, the label mooks think a LOUD CD will sound louder on the radio, when broadcast radio is already peak-limited to death. An over-squashed CD will actually sound *quieter* on the radio than a properly-mastered CD since the squashed one simply slams the station's limiter, which pulls the level down.

It's obscene.

[pokerfan]

19. So much for that wonderful 90dB dynamic range

http://georgegraham.com/compress.html">Whatever Happened to Dynamic Range on Compact Discs? By George Graham

[cemaphonic]

24. Interesting article

I've been involved with audio post-production for multimedia software, and most of the masters we got from the music producer we worked with were squashed into a really narrow db range. (To be fair, he wasn't a fan of heavy compression either - the QA people would complain if there was any noticeable variation in the audio.)

There's always "The Rite of Spring" though.

[pokerfan]

10. Actually, according to Nyquist

One must sample at twice the highest frequency in order to accurately reproduce the signal. So that means that 44.1 KHz sampling must be divided by two to get the theoretical maximum frequency. And that assuming ideal anti-aliasing filtering, which don't exist so they left themselves a little margin with that sampling rate in order to arrive at the 20kHz frequency response. It's adequate, but just barely.

I do have get pissed off at the hucksters marketing magic speaker wire at multiple dollars per foot. Zip cord of a sufficient gauge is all you need. When someone starts talking about transmission lines, group delay and skin effect, grab your wallet and walk away.

[EnviroBat]

35. You CAN"T tell the difference between free-range chicken

and regular chicken. But you can discern tubes vs. solid state...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

15. You have a listening room?

You must be single.

:rofl:

But audio-wise, how does a tube-amp with an air conditioning unit sound purer than a solid-state amp in a quiet environment?

[AlCzervik]

16. you don't? Peasant!

:D

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. I'm married. EVERY room is a listening room

:rofl:

[Pierre.Suave]

23. LOL

[Pierre.Suave]

22. I am only single

when my Fiancee is not here...

:rofl:

It does suck, but it is a very quiet AC unit at least.

The tubes sound very warm and musical. They sound like music should sound. The old Amps on the other hand, did not.

[Iggo]

20. I have a Crate GT80 1x12.

It is switchable between Solid State and Tube. I can DEFINITELY tell the difference, and so could any of you. The tube sound is so much fatter.

[EnviroBat]

21. Nothing beats the sound of my Gorilla 1X10, 10 Watt practice amp!

Please, knock me out.

[yorgatron]

25. i usually go for tubes,but i recently got a Standel.

[Pierre.Suave]

26. ?

really?

[yorgatron]

32. yes,really.

i usually use a Gibson Scout Ga-17 RVT or borrow my friend's '63 Fender Princeton.
but i found the Standel on craigslist for just $80!
100 watts into two 15" speakers,perfect for playing country & western stuff on my Danelectro doubleneck...

[EnviroBat]

34. I was kidding really...

This is the amp I currently use...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPL7Pt5hVCo

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. Did someone say TUBE AMPS?

:loveya::loveya::loveya:

[Pierre.Suave]

29. I was wondering where you were

:hi:

:P

[Fire Walk With Me]

30. As you well know, it is often easy to summon me.

However, star trek and blade runner shall no longer be considered a summoning. I have to retain some dignity.

[Pierre.Suave]

31. Rofl

I will be sure to note that for the future.

:P

[bluesbassman]

28. Screw solid state, this is why god created tubes!

On edit: Forgot to add a pic of "god"!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. I once knew a guy who had a MacIntosh amp.

Back when those were state of the art.

He said that a burglar broke in and tried to steal it.

It was so heavy, said burglar couldn't pick it up. :rofl: