I need some life advice.....help me out.

[Evoman]

Okay...so I'm having a bit of a crisis and wouldn't mind some advice from unbiased strangers.

After I graduated with a Bachelor's in Biochemistry, I had a decision to make. I thought that going into pharmacy school would be a good idea, but I really wanted to do my masters in biology as well. I applied for a big-time scholarship to do my masters...and I got it. My decision was made...I went to grad school.

I graduated sometime last year, and to be completely honest, I think I made the wrong decision. I'm have had a hard time finding a good job. My speciality is genetics and evolution...and most of the jobs I've been finding don't pay very well and would require me to move to places I don't want to move. Which doesn't seem to matter much, anyways, because I'm barely getting any interviews.

I mean, I'm no slouch either. I've published two papers, with a third on the way. I've gotten numerous scholarships. I've got excellent references. I've overhauled my resume a couple of times with the help of proffesionals. But still...jobs seem to be hard to come by.

So here I am. I'm 29 and I don't have a very good job. I've got some debt (but not too much...about 10,000 left in student loans). I'm considering going back into pharmacy. Pharmacy seems pretty lucrative...the four years back in school and big loans aren't appealling however.

What would you do if you were me? Go back to school? I don't know...I sort of feel burned out from school, and hate the idea of being poor for another 4 years. At the same time, I might come out ahead if I invest in this career. Does anybody know any pharmacists...are they happy with their jobs?

So much to consider....and I would appreciate some input.

[TZ]

1. Don't know about the "unbiased" part

As you are well aware that I am an evil Big Pharma shill..
I have a cousin who is a Pharmacist..seems to like it..except..he works in a 24 hr Pharmacy and does CRAZY hours.
To be honest, your best bet is probably going to be biotech...I intended to go into Animal Behavior myself and look where I ended up...*sigh*.

[Evoman]

5. Yeah....but I've tried. I'm not finding any jobs.

The only jobs are in Toronto...and damn it, I don't WANT to live in Toronto. Those jobs pay fairly well compared to the ones on this side of Canada, but the cost of living is so great that it's barely even worth it.

[leftyclimber]

7. Is there anything at Mac, maybe?

I realize it's in Hamilton, which isn't exactly a hotbed of high culture or anything, but you may be able to find lab work at the med school (assuming you're looking for work in ON). For that matter, anywhere with a med school that does biomed research might be worth considering, although pay vs cost of living is always an issue in a major city or university town.

[Evoman]

12. Here's the thing....

I've got a bud doing research with a med school in Toronto. He hates his job....they don't pay him very well and he has a lot of stress. I should consider it, I guess...but I'm sort of tired grad-school type work.

In the end, I should probably be less picky...I understand I need to work my way up. I'll consider your advice.

[Evoman]

25. You don't like your job? Have you ever considered going back to school?

If you could go into something like pharmacy, would you? I mean, even if you don't work in a pharmacy, you could always do research.

[MichiganVote]

2. Teaching, Not for Profits, Medical research companies, Drug companies, Editing,

zoos, work overseas....

or McDonalds.

Do the best with what you have. You chose what you love, not what would make you money.

[Evoman]

3. But my love is making money...lol.

I like my subject enough, but I don't really love it. I didn't even really enjoy grad school very much. I've been dirt poor my entire life....damn it, I want to be comfortable, lol.

[TZ]

6. Do you want to stay where you are?

I know some good paying places on the West Coast of the US (Cali and the Seattle area)

[Evoman]

9. Well, I'm not leaving Canada.

I guess that probably restricts me a whole bunch.....

[Evoman]

34. Oh....one more thing. How much do they pay? I am willing to compromise for a big enough paycheck,

:rofl:

[MichiganVote]

46. Then you're right, you made a choice you don't want to live with.

[leftyclimber]

4. Do you like to teach?

You could get a teaching cert and do high school. That would only be one year back in school instead of four. Or you could teach community college if there's a place around that hires folks with M.S. degrees. :shrug:

Me, I wouldn't commit to four years of any school unless I was absolutely sure that I would graduate still wanting to do said thing that I was studying. And I say this as 36-yo in a Ph.D. program. It is a BIG commitment, especially as an older student.

[Evoman]

8. No, I hate teaching and I hate kids.

I've done enough in grad school...and I am done with teaching.


The thing is, I don't think I would dislike being a pharmacist. All in all, I would put my desire to be a pharmacist at about equal as a job I'm currently qualified for. Except, I would make more money in pharmacy, lol.

[leftyclimber]

13. Fair enough. It's good to know that now!

Are there any pharma schools that have fellowships or similar so you wouldn't have to rack up so much debt, or some kind of program where after you graduate you could work in remote areas for a couple of years in exchange for tuition remission? I know there are programs for docs and optometrists and stuff along these lines, so there might be a way you could go to school, work in Thunder Bay or Iqaluit or somewhere like that for a little while and then not have to worry about further debt. Then you could write your own ticket WRT where you lived, pay off your loans pretty quickly, and be in the clear.

Edit: Are there any... darn it.

[Evoman]

17. Hmmm......good advice. I should totally look into that.

Thanks a lot.

[InvisibleTouch]

60. See, that was my problem too.

My educational background is also in a biological field, but I found that the only thing I could really do with it was teach - and I hated teaching all throughout grad school. I ended up going into a whole different field altogether, and it's the best choice I made in recent years. At first it will seem like your years of education are somewhat wasted, but why throw good years after bad? And if you're interested in pharmacy, it's at least slightly related to your life sciences background. Go for it, and don't look back.

[RadiationTherapy]

10. Take some time out and go travel, have fun and meet people.

Our careers are what we do when not living.

[Evoman]

16. I would LOVE to....but I have too much loans and other responsibilities.

And I've already done some travelling....I don't know. I sort of want to start building some sort of life. I'd consider putting my life in hiatus for some years if I got something in the end, but I can't just keep pissing my time away, you know?

[RadiationTherapy]

19. Yeah. I get stuck on rewind sometimes.

I dropped out of college when I was 22; best thing I ever did. Now I work at a Uni and am going for my BFA in graphic design at age 33. I work with young people barely into their 20s and they are already so in debt that they could never travel clean like I did. I am often catching myself encouraging them to stop schooling and go out and see the world.

Anyhow...

I would recommend keeping careful track of your skill sets (corporo-speak alert!) and build your resume around that. Since long careers with a single company or even in a single field is a thing of the past, you need to be ready to apply your skills wherever the opportunity presents itself. Your skills are your career these days. That's how I sees it.

[Evoman]

22. Awesome...this is so true.....

"Since long careers with a single company or even in a single field is a thing of the past, you need to be ready to apply your skills wherever the opportunity presents itself. Your skills are your career these days. "

One of the nice things about pharmacy...which is why I'm considering it, is that you can do it ANYWHERE. That sort of flexibility is appealing to me. Debt sucks though.

[mnhtnbb]

11. Have you tried looking for jobs in the Research Triangle area of NC?

(It goes by the initials of RTP, and is between Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill/Cary area.

Lots of big companies here (although some have been laying off).

UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and NC State University are here. There are also some smaller
colleges in the area.

[leftyclimber]

15. And they may be able to NAFTA you in if you're not a dual citizen.

I worked in high tech in Ontario for a while and was able to get a work permit because of NAFTA. If you're in a high demand field like biotech it shouldn't be any trouble crossing the border (outside of the usual :evilgrin:).

[Evoman]

18. Lol...this reminds me of all the posts about people who wish they lived in Canada.

I would be moving from Canada to the U.S. In the end, I may have too.

[leftyclimber]

21. Yeah, I wish I hadn't left.

Unfortunately, personal circumstances dicated otherwise.

[Evoman]

24. Do you not like it in the states? Would you not consider moving back?

[leftyclimber]

27. If I could get a tenure-track teaching gig

at one of the unis where they have a rec/parks/tourism program (what I do) I'd be back in a heartbeat. Especially if I could work at Alberta. Nice folks in the department, great location, not that far from my family in Oregon.

I lived in Canada from 1996-2003, and I guess I went native or something while I was there. :blush: I just haven't been able to re-integrate into American society/culture, and don't think I ever will. To me things run a lot better in Canada (although it's not without its problems, either; they're just different ones), the people are more tolerant and laid-back, and I guess I just fit in better there. If I'd known how nuts things had gotten politically down here in the seven years I was gone I wouldn't have come back in the first place. It's like living in Cloud Cuckooland.

[Evoman]

29. My dad lives in Calgary, my sister in Edmonton....interesting places to live

if you don't mind a lot of commuting time and traffic.

Now that you bring up Alberta, a friend of my girlfriend has a cousin (niece?) who lives in Calgary as a pharmacist. She just bought a 70 000 dollar car.

Not that I car about 70 000 dollar cars...I like my beat up 91 Chrysler Dynasty lol. But damn...nice vacation you could take with that money.

But aside from my obsession with money, I have visited the states several times. I like the people enough (been to Montana, Ohio, Detroit, and Cali), but I wouldn't be happy there. As similar as the two countries are, there is just something...off...about many American people. I'm not saying that in a negative way, nor am I trying to offend....it's just what it is.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. It might sound silly, but it is something I have learned too late now.

What is going to make you happy at the end of the day, Evoman. My husband used to have a saying,"I don't care if you shovel sh*t, as long as you are happy"

That would be my suggestion really. Do what makes you want to get up in the morning.

[Evoman]

20. I want money. That would make me happy.

I know it's not popular to say that, but I'm being honest. The thought of doing something really fun, but making shitty money and going back to a crappy apartment and eating more peanut butter and jelly sandwiches leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I think what would make me get up in the morning is knowing that next month, I'm going to take two weeks off work and go on a nice vacation that doesn't require me to sleep in a roach infested hostel, lol.

Thanks for your advice, though, MrsGrumpy. I'm grateful that I'm getting some good advice on this thread.

[WinkyDink]

33. MBA. No money in teaching OR research.

[Evoman]

35. Yeah...I realize that. MBA is two years....pharmacy is four.

Plus, you don't have to be evil to get a decent paycheck.

Although, as I'm eating another peanut butter sandwich, I'm wondering if compromising your morals is such a bad thing. hehe.

[RadiationTherapy]

23. Damn I wish i knew your husband.

I know you are biased, but he justs sounds like he was so down to earth and cool.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. He was an incredible human being and I never knew what he saw

in me. PassingFair and her husband (DUers) would back me up on this. I was always afraid he would be gone from me too soon. I try to tell myself to treasure the time that we had together. It really was amazing being married to him. Thanks for seeing that in him.

[Evoman]

28. Stop it...you're going to make me cry.

Here I am talking about my stupid, shitty "crisis", and you REALLY know what lifes about.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Hey... you have a right. It's the rest of your life...and you should be

happy. I like trying to help others through their problems instead of always feeling sorry for myself.

[RadiationTherapy]

30. I think a lot of people don't understand what their partners see in them; forget it.

What you lived is to be envied by many. Not from a place of pride or anything, but just from a purely human place. You may not understand why he loved you, but you can know that he did.

I have been a lurker since 2001; I used to smile and think "does my wife talk about me like this?" From a purely platonic place, I can understand why he loved you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. I'm sure she does.

I'm sure. I knew I was kind of gushy and mushy about him but he deserved it after a *less than* childhood. I am really happy that some of his cousins logged in here after reading messages from DUers on the memorial site and were able to see some of what I had written about him...for them to know that he was well loved. He is well loved.

[Callalily]

31. Have you thought of

going into genetic counseling? I would think that would be a very rewarding field.

Good luck on your search.

[Evoman]

32. Hmm...never even considered it. Always figured for some reason you needed to be a doctor to do that.

[SoxFan]

36. It happens to a lot of us these days

My suggestion? Let's go have a beer.

[Evoman]

38. Lol...I'd love to, but I can't afford it. Can I put you on a five-year raincheck?

:rofl:

But seriously, I'd love to hear your story if you have the time.

[SoxFan]

43. My friend owns 2 bars. That takes care of the tab!

[conscious evolution]

37. Go back to school

Pharmacist are in short supply and they make good money.

[Evoman]

39. More school....*sigh*. Probably what I'm gonna end up doing.

Since I wouldn't be able to get in until next September anways, I'm going to register for pharmacy at 1 or 2 schools. In the meantime, I'm also going to keep looking for work.

[cosmik debris]

40. I've retrained 3 times for 3 different careers.

And I have 3 diplomas to show for it.

I decided what I wanted to do for a living, I trained for it, and I did it.

When one opportunity dried up, I trained for another opportunity.

When I changed my mind, I retrained.

That's how I solved similar dilemmas. And that is what I would suggest for you.

Look at where you are going, not where you've been.

[Evoman]

41. What were your careers?

[cosmik debris]

42. Oilfield, Health Physics, Electronics,

I almost went into food science, but didn't finish the degree program.

[Lethe]

44. deal weed

do the research, make the investment, make $100 grand a year easy

[Xipe Totec]

45. What do you like to do?

That's the real question, isn't it?

What do you think you could do, for the rest of your life, and not get absolutely bored doing it?

Or, what job are you willing to do, for the rest of your life, to get the funds to do, what you really want to do?

[Evoman]

49. Play video games, and have sex.

And I'm damn good at them both :rofl:

Now, I just have to turn those skills into some cash!

[NJmaverick]

47. You are 29, I think it's time you entered the working world

You have had job opportunities, time to take one and get yourself a job. Maybe the job doesn't pay as much as you want, but few jobs do. Besides there are worse things than poor pay. Having a job where you are desperately waiting for quitting time, would be worse. It almost seems like you are afraid to enter the working world. Go for it, move to where the jobs are and take that next step.

[Evoman]

48. No way dude...I've given out about a billion resumes in the last year and a half.

In fact, I would gladly accept, right now, any job that offered me over 25 000 dollars a year, lol.

I'm not afraid to enter the working world....I'm working right now, in fact. I just can't find good jobs, and the ones that are advertised, I have too much competition.

I'm sort of between a rock and hard place, I think. I'm overqualified for the crappy tech jobs and I don't have the phd for some the post-doc type jobs or higher up research scientist jobs.

Edit: Moreover, one of the reasons I'm considered pharmacy is because I'll have a for sure decent paying job right out of school. I may be 29, but I don't have a family, I'm not married, and apart from 10,000, no debt. If I'm going to take another direction, I gotta do it soon.

[NJmaverick]

56. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and take the low pay

Once you get the experience you will become more valuable and able to get better jobs.

[Evoman]

52. I would like to thank everyone for your advice...I talked to my girlfriend, and we have come to a

decision.

She is pretty much in the same boat as I am. I talked to her about it...at first, I thought she might freak out lol. I know that marriage is in the cards, and I thought she might want me to grab whatever job I could get and stick it out.

Couldn't be farther from her reaction. I was suprised to learn that she was thinking the exact same thing....she wants to go to pharmacy school.

So this is what we decided. Pharmacy schools that we can apply to (assuming we get accepted) start next september (2009). That gives us a year to find a decent job. We are both going to apply. If either of us finds a good job before that, then awesome. If we don't, pharmacy. I'm also going to look for a part time job in the biz to see if I like it.

She was really excited about the whole thing....she hates her job (retail), fell out of love of her chosen subject (whereas I am indifferent), and has been considering a career in pharmacy.

So thats that.

In the meantime, I'll keep giving it a shot. I just sent off 3 resumes today. I also got the opportunity (:eyes:) to write an exam for a position in a government lab. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. I wish you both the very best of luck, love and happiness.

No matter what you end up doing.

[Heddi]

54. Do the pharmacy thing

I don't know what pharmD's get in Canada, but in the shit-hole town in Central Washington, the PharmD's with <1 year experience were started at $110,000 USD a year. If you work at a drug store, it will be closer to $80,000 USD, but even that's not anything to sniff at.

I was real good friends with one of the Pharmacists at the hospital and we talked about his education vs. mine, his salary vs. mine, and he said that school was hard, he had a shitload of loans, but was able to pay the loans off in 3 years by living lean and putting pretty much his entire salary to the loans. He could have lived more affluently and had the loans for longer, but for him he just wanted that burden out of the way. Once that was done, he was able to buy a house with cash, cars with cash, and he's about 42 or so and has no debt at all, a paid off house, a paid off education, and about 900 kids (he's mormon) to put through college but that's okay.

Oh, and he was much older than you when he went to pharmacy school--mid 30's, already with a wife and a family and a mortgage. But he said it was the best decision he ever made.

[Evoman]

55. Wow...okay. See, thats my dream right there. Well...not the kids.

I told my girlfriend that she gets one if she really wants it.

I NEVER keep a positive balance on my credit card, no matter how shitty poor I am, because I'm am almost pathologically afraid of debt. Hell, I managed to finish 7 years in school with only 10 000, so there you go.

Being completely debt free IS my dream.

[Courtesy Flush]

57. Are you looking at government jobs?

State and Federal health agencies could really use you. You may not end up using your specialty, but there are plenty of government jobs that you would qualify for. Many would pay pretty well.

Just yesterday a friend was telling me about the people he works with at the Corps of Engineers. They make six-figure incomes. It takes time to get up to that pay level, but that's part of life in the real world. (Don't apply to the Corps of Engineers. You're not an engineer.)

[alarimer]

58. In genetics you probably need a PHd.

But I guess it depends on what you want to do. I have it a little easier- I just finished a Masters in fisheries biology. There seem to be more jobs in that field for a MS, especially in state and federal agencies. You might try that route.

I didn't realize you were Canadian so I know nothing about government jobs in Canada but it might be an avenue to try.

[Nikia]

59. Have you applied for jobs in food/agriculture?

They need scientists in those areas too. Since most master's level position require some experience, you might have to start out as a technician. You could advance faster though with your degree. Companies vary in what they will pay for these positions, but you will definitely make more than $17,000 per year which you mentioned in another part of the thread.