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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:32 PM
Original message
Poll question: Worst character in the history of science fiction?
I'm not talking about "most evil" or "most poorly acted." Instead, I'm talking about a character that was so misbegotten that it should have been put down before it ever made it onto the page or screen. Also, it would be best if the awful character were reasonably well known and not some unnamed walk-on in an obscure Kapek play.

Really, there can be only one sensible choice, but I'd be interested to hear if others have different suggestions.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Captain Kirk.
:popcorn:

:hide:
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Now you've done it
The Lounge Geek death squad is gonna be after you...:rofl:
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Captain Janeway
:grr: :grr: :grr:

I despise voyager............so stupid....:hi:
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Dead to me
Loved Voyager..Loved Janeway.
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Neelix sux
:grr: :grr: :grr:


Turtleandsue just dropped off my radar............:rofl: :hi:
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Watched "Fair Haven" the other evening


"You know the story, girl meets boy, girl modifies boy's subroutines..."

"Delete the wife."

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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. I liked that episode when she *didn't* use her sandy, monotone delivery
Oh, wait--that episode doesn't exist! :evilgrin:

I kid the zealot. I actually don't mind Janeway, and I found her to be a credible Captain. Still, Mulgrew's delivery of her lines often really grated on me.

Nana Visitor and Avery Brooks suffer from the same problem: both are pretty good actors, but they always spoke their DS9 lines as if they were trying to be the most dramatic kid in the high school play.
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #36
52. I always thought Avery Brooks learned to act...
...by correspondence course from the "James Earl Jones Academy of Scene Chewing." Jones has a beautiful voice and a commanding screen presence, but Captain Sisko was a bit too "mini-me" for my liking.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #52
79. no, no
:cry: He's a wonderful actor.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
97. Yes indeed he is, and that's what bothers me so much!
His performance as Sisko seldom rose above "I can scarcely keep from laughing as I read my lines in super-dramatic fashion."

I've liked him elsewhere (even in Spencer: For Hire), but as Sisko he always seemed like a joke. I can't imagine why they didn't let him really showcase his ability, rather than forcing him into a straightjacket.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Now, see, he said this *wasn't* about the "most poorly acted"
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. I know. He's the worst character. He was genesis for the duration of Trek.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
60. Fuck you, Trek hater.
:grr:
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. but he's HILARIOUS
and kind of a hotty :blush:

I just watch Star Trek for the laughs, 40 year old sci-fi is always ridiculous.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
99. Kira Nerys, ST:Voyager. Soap opera angst throughout.
:puke:
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
136. die in a fire, plzkthxbai
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Alexander Rozhenko
Worf's son. Bad character. Bad actor.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Oooh--good call
I can't consider him worse than Jar Jar because Alexander had comparatively little impact on the series, whereas Jar Jar was given about fifty hours of uninterrupted screen time in The Phantom Menace.

Let's just say that both are god-awful.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
80. but that would have to be the guy who played Anakin!
horrible, just horrible!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Any female character Heinlein ever wrote. Or most Sci-Fi writers, really.
I swear Sci-Fi writers have done more to fuck up young men's expectations.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. AMEN!
:toast:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yes! I knew someone else around here had to have noticed and would agree...
:toast:

:loveya:
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. That's exactly why MrsCoffee refers to sci-fi as "nerd porn"
She just doesn't get it.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Oh no... she gets it all right.
I'm not explaining that cause it could be interpreted in a few ways, and most of them would be correct, so I'm leavin it. :)
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. Try Jack McDevitt
Especially his "The Academy" series of books.

The lead through most of the books is female and a very interesting character. Strong, talented and resourceful. I think the first book in the series was Deepsix and should be widely available.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. McDevitt is quite recent, though
Several generations of awful s/f writers precede him, and I believe that these fit redqueen's description more precisely.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
118. Seconded.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Any female character? Heinlein only wrote one female character.
"A perfect lady in public... utterly uninhibited in private."

And with very poor taste in men, I must add.

In a more realistic world any male Heinlein hero would be quietly murdered and the body disposed of. There would be no time enough for love, no sailing beyond the sunset, just a bloated body on a beach somewhere and a strong woman glad to be rid of a flaming asshole boyfriend.


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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. ...
:thumbsup:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. A great answer!
Heinlein might very well be the worst of the bunch, but stupid female roles are pretty much the cornerstone of the "Golden Age" of science fiction.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Yup... to the point of being cliche...
as cliche as the studly, handsome, independently-wealthy, sensitive-yet-still-rugged and secretly but fervently and expressively romantic male characters in romance novels. :)
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Even up until the modern age, I think
Witness "Cryptonomicon," by Neal Stephenson.

6 female characters, 2 of which were old women, 2 of which were there so some man could get fucked, 1 ex-wife, and 1 pathetic attempt at salvaging the plot. And only one of which, the last, was treated as a real human being. Sort of.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Isn't that the book that's 100,000 pages? I haven't bothered
Every good review I've heard of it is countered by five not-so-good reviews, so...

And, sadly, your point is overwhelmingly correct.


Of course, I blame you wimminfolk. If you'd make up more of the genre-buying demographic, they'd pander more to your sensibilities, rather than the standard male expectations so often portrayed on the page.


Note to readers: 1. That's sarcasm! 2. I know that not all s/f is like that; I engage in hyperbole to make a point or something.
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
54. Asimov is probably as guilty as most but
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 05:16 AM by YankeyMCC
What about the characters from the Foundation series of Dors Venabili (although I suppose she was technically a humanform robot) and Bayta and Arkady Darell? Where they so bad?

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. I did say "most"... those exceptions only serve to prove the rule. (nt)
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 12:32 PM by redqueen
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cemaphonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #54
91. As Azimov had a tin ear for dialog and characterization
and tended to write everything in the same enthusiastic tenor he used in his non-fiction, I'd call him an equal-opportunity bad-character writer.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
77. depends on the writers- there are a lot of sci-fi writers!
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 05:46 PM by tigereye
how about some Olivia Butler or some of the feminist speculative fiction writers? LeGuin, Sherri Tepper? Much more aware and not bound to typical conventions... I think there are also lots of male sci-fi writers (maybe even a few from the 50s and 60s who transcended some of the sexism of the time.)

:hi:


I loved Heinlein when I was in high school, but I've come a long way since then!






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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. Hi there!
Yeah I've read some female writers that broke out of that tradition and some that seemed happy to work within it... and I too liked Heinlein, before I grew up! :P

:hi:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #77
115. That's OCTAVIA Butler, you heretic!
:evilgrin:
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
100. Wait... you mean Friday WASN'T a realistic depiction of a woman?
... my entire worldview has been shifted.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
108. What about Vonnegut? Paul Proteus' wife Anita was certainly not a lesson in high expectations.
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 11:49 PM by JVS
If anything she helped build the expectation that a wife would be a totally non-supportive being.

On edit: then there is the wife in Fahrenheit 451 who is similar.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #108
126. I did say *most* authors...
IMO these exceptions are doing nothing but proving that there is indeed a rule.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
111. Can it be any worse than Disney
and what they've done to fuck up young girls expectations? :shrug:

I haven't read any Heinlein.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #111
114. Thank God that there is one animated show that keeps it real
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #114
116. hells yeah
even i look good by comparison
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #111
132. Um... yeah.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
128. I would hazard that that hack 'artist' Boris...
I would hazard that that hack 'artist' Boris did even more damage than Heinlein in the regards to young men. He led us to believe that strong women (and female aliens and female demons and female...) *always* wore a bikini-- regardless of time, place, weather or setting.

And, much like Heinlein, Boris appears to have influenced the generations of hack artists that have come since...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. Don't know Boris...
glad of that, actually... based on your description. :)
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #133
139. Valejo--an artist more than author
You've seen his stuff a brazillion times over, even if you didn't realize it. Really, his skill is phenomenal, and he has a wonderful eye for color, but he doesn't seem to have much luck with painting clothes on his subjects...
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #128
140. LOL! Well...
In fairness, he usually paints his muscle-bound male characters in similarly inadequate attire, FWIW.

And even if you don't care for the subject matter, it's not really fair to call him a hack, because he's quite talented and has spent decades honing his skill.

For that matter, it's not true that his women *always* wear bikinis. I cite the cover of To Sail Beyond the Sunset as just one example:
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. honorable mention


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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. Yes! He meets the "misbegotten" criterion even better than Alexander
Deliberately written as a ploy to catch the interest of These Kids Today, Wesley embodies a sort of half-assed pandering that didn't even make sense on paper, since the very audience that he was intended to attract either wouldn't ever watch Trek anyway (eg., young women without an interest in science fiction) or would watch Trek whether he was there or not (eg., young men with an interest in s/f).

The sad part is that Wil Wheaton is, by all accounts, an admirable guy and honestly not a bad actor. Too bad he got saddled with that role.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Life ain't easy for a boy named (Mary) Sue
Mary Sue is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and clichéd mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors.

Note that 'Wesley' is Roddenberry's middle name.

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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
81. but the character was able to transcend the typical roles for Trek characters
wow, I'm such a geek to be arguing about this...
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
47. But the star of the best TNG scene ever:
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. I could watch that over and over...
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Giant Robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
72. I would have agreed with you
Prior to reading his blog. I find more sympathy for him now. Or maybe just sympathy for Wil Wheaton. His take on the character was very enlightening. OK, Wesley sucks. But Jar Jar is worse.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #72
93. While Wesley sucked; Wil Wheaton did/does not
But the OP was asking for worst characters.

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Giant Robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Yeah as I was typing my reply
I realized I was arguing the wrong thing. But I was too lazy to edit it. So yes I am lazy and stupid!
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #95
102. No, it's just my pedantry rearing its ugly head
I just felt it worth repeating.

Wesley Crusher could have been played by a young Laurence Olivier and that character would have still sucked.

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Giant Robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Let's shake hands and say it was both
Your pedantry and my laziness. Like I said, Wil Wheaton's blog has some interesting perspective on the character. He repeatedly said the character was set up to fail. There was no way he was getting over with Trekkies.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
109. ahhhhhh. It burns!
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wesley Crusher or Worf's kid.
Blech.
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. Ugh! Alexander was the fucking worst.
I couldn't believe that ST gave a bad ass like Worf such a lame ass kid.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. Running out of plot ideas, most likely.
A good reason some some series should only last 5 years.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #57
74. And for some series, five years is five years too long
There is a fundamental problem with episodic sci-fi with respect to the basic narrative structure and that is that nothing of any real significance can ever happen. At the end of every episode, the cosmic reset button is pressed and everything returns to normal.

A story should have an ending. The nature of episodic television in general is that it must never end. It just goes on and on and on...

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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #74
105. Unfortunately if they DON'T do that, they'll lose the casual viewer crowd
much like when Enterprise started doing long story arcs, or Babylon 5. Because the casual viewers won't be able to keep up with the ever-changing universe, so they'll just stop watching.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #105
117. It's a conundrum all right
One of the advantages of 24 is that it's basically a series of self-contained stories, each one season in length. It's better than hitting the reset button after each episode without bogging it down with a years-long story arc and it allows new viewers to join at the beginning of each season. I think I joined in the fourth season.

One of the many reasons I prefer my SF written.

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deucemagnet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
61. "I've got two dead wives and a son named Alexander!"
"Mr. Worf", the song. Nerd rock, yeah! :headbang:
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. all the idiots on that re-imagined Battlestar Galactica on Sci-Fi. nt.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. with a Special Distinctive Crappy Performance award to Starbuck
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. that Trish Hefer chick is screwing up Burn Notice now. nt.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Lost in Space" can't really be called science fiction, but...
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 06:04 PM by MilesColtrane
...I'll go with Dr. Smith anyway because I always wanted to toss him out of an airlock.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Not sure if Star Wars can really be called SF either
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. That discussion can never be resolved
Because even if you asked a science fiction author and his clone to define science fiction, they still wouldn't agree.

The criteria are so nebulous that the boundaries between fantasy and science fiction can only be stated in terms of the preference of the person currently offering the definition.
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
55. Dr Smith was the only character that made that show
interesting at all.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. I see your Jar Jar and I'll raise you this....


The most powerful and evil empire in the entire galaxy, all undone by a bunch of fucking spear chucking build a bears.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Lucas should have "trusted his feelings"
<Lucas> wanted Return of the Jedi to feature a tribe of primitive creatures that bring down the technological Empire. He had originally intended the scenes to be set on the Wookiee home planet...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewok

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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yeah, that's almost as unbelievable as the most powerful military force in the world
undone by a bunch of tiny, rice-eating peasants with simple rifles and sharpened stakes.

Who'd believe that?
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
58. Hey if we had had AT-AT's in Vietnam....
War=Over
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Don't be so sure...
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. How many Ewoks do you think it took to raise those logs off the ground?
I'm guessing those trunk must weigh about 900 pounds each. Yeah, really realistic Lucas.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. A block-and-tackle isn't exactly world-shaking technology. Not to mention the pulley.
I think the Ewoks could have managed it.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Are you serious?
It took like 6 of those things just to lift up C3-PO into a sitting position.

I can't believe I'm having this debate. I am such a geek.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Me too.
Geekdom triumphs! :party:

The way I see it, if they had gliders and bolos, they had to have had the fairly simple technology needed to hoist those logs. Primitive heavy-lifting tech+a lot of Ewoks=dead AT-ST's.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #63
98. Let that scene be a lesson to anyone who says that Star Wars tech beats Star Trek tech
If two logs can smash an allegedly formidable piece of Imperial military armament, a phaser would cut that thing to ribbons in less time than it takes to say "Ewoks suck."
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Well duh.
Trek ships are powered by combining matter and anti-matter. Of COURSE their technology is gonna be a bit higher powered. A regular blaster pistol can blow holes in things, but a pistol-sized phaser can fucking vaporize someone.

However, the Star Wars universe tends to have MORE guns at their disposal. A Star Destroyer is practically bristling with turrets. Not to mention the number of single or two pilot fighters that every capital ship usually has. So putting a Star Wars capital ship up against an Enterprise or original series ship might be a fair fight. A couple of heavy weapons vs. a lot of lighter ones. But Next Generation and beyond? Pfft. No chance.

And in reference to the AT-ST, first off, it's the small scout model. Not the heavily armored and armed version. It's made to repel small arms fire and maybe an RPG type explosive or two. Also, it's hollow inside the 'head' section. So it's not too unrealistic to think that a direct hit from two large logs like that would cause a crunch. If one log had hit, it probably would have just knocked it over at the worst. If they'd tried that on an AT-AT it wouldn't have even scratched the surface.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #101
124. Don't forget.
Star Wars did have the Death Star. Get close enough to Earth and bam, end of the war pretty much.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #124
125. Right, but that super-sized cannon woulda had a hard time tracking a ship moving at a quarter
impulse. :P So it might have a hard time fighting its way to get to earth.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #125
134. That's what the rest of the armada is for. n/t
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. Unfortunately TIE fighters are basically tin cans with wings.
Now if you mix and match... put Republic ships with a Death Star... then things might get interesting.

... god damn it, I'm a geek.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. Well when I say armada....
I mean like the Star Destroyers and things like that. Things that won't explode with one hit.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. Heh... getting a funny mental picture
of a squadron of TIEs closing in on a Federation vessel... and a single sweep of the forward phaser pops every single one of 'em like a soap bubble.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. lol you know that would happen too
Star Wars vehicles (other than the big capital ships) are tissue thin.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #141
142. Sucks for the pilots too...
TIEs don't have ejection seats.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. Or landing gear
Either fly back to your hangar (literally a "hanger") or crash land. Good thing there's ten million more pilots exactly like you!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #58
110. Dude, we already had nukes and/or B-52s.
If we had been willing to kill everyone we would have "won", but since we weren't not, even the AT-ATs could have changed the outcome.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. Jar Jar wins.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. Lwaxana Troi
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MJW Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
121. Lwaxwana Troi
wins hands down. She is even worse than Deanna Troi (or whatever her evil spawn daughters name was)
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MJW Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
122. whoops
Edited on Thu Aug-28-08 09:03 AM by MJW
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
35. Jar Jar wins.
Or rather, loses.



Followed closely by Lucas.

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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
42. Terl, the Psychlo
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 11:54 PM by elshiva
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Awful indeed, but I don't know that he's worse than Jar Jar
Still, anything that falls out of Hubbard's anus and onto the page is inherently awful, so Terl is definitely in the top ten.
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I don't want to argue about Jar Jar. Personally,
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 12:20 AM by elshiva
I liked Jar Jar, but that is only me. Terl is just utterly awful and uglier looking than Jar Jar. He also has massive codpiece, which says to me that he is compensating... :(

















buffy
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Ugly, I grant
We'll call it a draw, then!
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Good on you, Orrex.
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 12:11 AM by elshiva
:toast:


buffy
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Right back atcha!
:hug:
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. I'm having trouble posting the codpiece closeup
Go to the top of this page with Jason Sartin's avatar...

http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Casino_Royale_1967.aspx?Page=2
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #50
113. Yikes!
I have trouble with "codpiece closeup" just from reading it.
:scared:
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Arnold Judas Rimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
44. No contest! It has to be the Talkie Toaster!
Edited on Wed Aug-27-08 12:09 AM by Arnold Judas Rimmer

I told Kryten not to bother fixing that thing. So did Lister. But you know how mechanoids are. :eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZslRQvv5zM
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #44
56. Will you being wanting any toast?


buffy
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
53. Maureen Robinson
I don't know how June Lockhart put up with the role. I suppose it was par for the course for her but for a character that was supposed to be a scientist with the courage to go out into space as a pinoneer she was painfully (to watch/listen to) subservient and without any apparent free will of her own. There were moments when she showed a compassion or understand of Dr Smith or one of the other characters but she basically walked around doing laundry, chattering about hair dos and saying 'yes John' 'whatever you say John'

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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
64. I don't see how any vote other than Wesley Crusher makes any sense at all.
Alexander Rozhenko was a little asshole to be sure, but his screen time was far more limited than Wesley.

I can't comment on Jar Jar Binks, since the only Star Wars movie I ever saw was the original and I hated it.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Beverly Crusher easily beats Wesley in the OMG how annoying can you be department.
IMHO.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. With all due respect,
no effing way. Wesley's mere appearance on any episode made me want to see the Enterprise attacked by a superior force. Beverly was a twit, but at least she was easy on the eyes. Plus, the scene when Q turned her into a dog ranks as one of the funniest I've ever seen.
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #69
82. That's just because the actress who played her could not act,
and her delivery was just cringe-worthy. Her character was pretty dopily self-righteous, but it was the actress who made the Beverly-centric episodes unwatchable.

Wesley, on the other hand, is a relentlessly annoying little shit. I was severely disappointed at the end of the first-season episode where he got out of the death penalty (which I'm otherwise against :P ).
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Geez--how big a geek am I?
I believe that still is from the closing scene in Menage a Troi wherein Picard has to profess his "love" for Lwaxana and his willingness to open fire on the Ferengi ship to get her back.

Am I right?
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #88
94. I believe you are indeed right!
:applause:

I see there are some Lwaxana non-fans here, but I found (most of) her episodes a hoot (This particular seen is a fave of mine. And in the background it looks like Mr. Frakes is enjoying himself, too).
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. I don't know the title, but...
She was in an early DS9 episode during which got stranded in a turbolift (or something) with Odo, for whom she'd developed a quick affection even though she made him intensely uncomfortable. Baret played against expectation and actually downplayed the character's wild and flamboyant excentricities, and the result was a deeper look into her character than (I believe) we've ever gotten from any non-central character in Trek (with the possible exception of Sarek, now that I think of it).

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #69
112. Exactly what I was thinking.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
65. Will Smith in "I, Robot" vintage 2004!!!!!
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
67. Security Chief Tasha Yar.
Bad character, bad actor, bad lines, painful delivery, no reasonable plot involvement, was killed by evil tar. Thank the maker.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Just about every villain in the Gil Gerard Buck Rogers series.
But especially the Vorvon, the Trabor, and the War Witch.

There was a lot of drug use amongst screenwriters in the late 70's early 80's era as if you couldn't tell.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
73. Deanna Troi.
"Captain, I sense hostility." Well no shit, the fucking Klingons are attacking. She never "senses" anything that somebody with a room temperature IQ couldn't guess. The one time she actually tried to do something useful, she ran the Enterprise into a planet.

Also, the drunk scene in First Contact is just painfully bad.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Perhaps, but as someone mentioned upthread about Dr. Crusher,
Troi is easy on the eyes, so she's not a complete waste of space. However, I do wish she'd been called at least once on the vapidity of her 'observations.'
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. For real
TROI: I'm sensing something about something, but I can't say for sure what it is.

PICARD: Why the hell do you have a command chair on my Bridge?

Seriously. A wholly disaffected sociopath with minimal interpersonal contact can make better guesses about people's feelings than this supposed empath. WTF?!?
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #83
127. at least they did show her doing some hypnotherapy and using some
strategies... but for the most part she stated the obvious most of the time.


Although the idea of her Betazoid abilities parallel some therapeutic skills.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #73
87. yeah I even cringed a lot and I'm a mental health professional -
plus her accent and cleavage were just too much.


I loved the character of her mom, though.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Her mom is a riot.
:)
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #89
104. Majel Barrett turned in a very good performance
with David Ogden Stiers in the TNG episode, Half a Life. Her character was mostly used for comic relief but that episode was a pleasant surprise.

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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. Yes--good call
In particular, her clash with Deanna in the Transporter Room was particularly effective, I thought. It nicely captured a tense mother:daughter relationship and also highlighted the demands of their respective roles in the Federation.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
78. you mean science fiction films or books?
big difference....
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. Either, but see the criterion in the OP
The character should be reasonably well known, so that the average person has some idea of who it is (as opposed to characters known only to hardcore s/f geeks).
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. hmm, no wonder it got down to Heinlein and Asimov
:rofl:




Then that's a pretty short list, I am sorry to say. Personally, I think everyone should have to read the Hyperion series or books by Lem, but that's just me.






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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
90. Any character in any book by Robert Heinlein. What a fucking HACK he was.
Redstone
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MJW Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #90
123. I got my pedigree read
for calling Heinlein a hack a few years ago on DU! It was so bad I STILL remember it!
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
106. I'm not a big fan of the annoying Sam Carter.
Particularly her "Atlantis" incarnation.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #106
120. Oh, c'mon.
Amanda Tapping is teh hawt.
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
119. The 1928 Porter automobile in "My Mother the Car"
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
129. Any character from any L. Ron Hubbard science fiction novel.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
130. Keanu Reeves. Hands down. Contest over.
I finally watched Matrix some years back-- and I freely admit that while the movie was worse than what even I had been led to expect, Keanu took it to realms of horrible-ness never before charted in cinematic history..
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. Ah, but I asked for "worst character," and you gave us "worst absence of character"
I thought that the first Matrix was pretty good. The other two were so bad that I could have sworn that Lucas directed them.
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