OK people, I am NOT AN ALCOHOLIC.

[Pierre.Suave]

STOP sending me PMs telling me I am and how great it is that I am stopping.

I drank some due to the fact I was dumped by my now ex-fiancee two days ago.

I decided to stop after drinking for two days due to the sadness of it for me.

ONCE AGAIN, I AM NOT AN ALCOHOLIC, AND NEVER WAS AN ALCOHOLIC, I WAS NOT AND AM NOT A HEAVY DRINKER AND ALCOHOL DID NOT LEAD TO THIS BREAK UP.

From now on, please inform yourself before jumping to conclusions...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. see, just the fact that you have

to announce it, means there is some relevance to the argument

at least that is what the recovery nazis say

[Pierre.Suave]

2. Absolutely not

it means that there are a bunch of people jumping to a conclusion not based in fact and who know absolutely nothing.

[KitchenWitch]

32. Au contraire, I am a recovery 'nazi'

and I did not jump to the conclusion that jasonc had a drinking problem.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. if you were just drinking for a couple of days, why make such a dramatic lounge announcement?

i am sure people who sent you the email had good intentions.

[Pierre.Suave]

5. obviously you did not get the deluge of PMs

that were sent to me.

if you have nothing to add, why reply at all?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i did have something to add. my point is you post dramatic thing, you expect dramatic responses

your entire attitude when you post is that everyone has to reply just exactly as you want them to.

since we all have minds of our own, this strange desire you have to control people's response to you is bizarre.

[Pierre.Suave]

12. Interesting

you could be accused of the same thing.

[sasquatch]

4. Midlo>You, I take it

:D

[Pierre.Suave]

37. I am not sure where you are going with this?

:shrug:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

6. Good for you. I, however, AM an alcoholic.

Even tho' I took my last drink in '82.

All I had to do was admit it to myself. Once I did that, I was able to close that hole in my soul and move on.

[Pierre.Suave]

9. ...

are you fucking serious?

I have more drinks than average for 2 days and you are telling me that I just have to admit I am an alcoholic?

Jesus...

[TroglodyteScholar]

13. Looks to me like he was talking about himself...

I don't see the word "you" anywhere in the post.

[flvegan]

7. I'm outraged at your use of the word "people".

Or something.

[Pierre.Suave]

11. hey I read your post the other day

the one you thought would make me mad, it didnt.

I dont hate you. It was wise words.

[flvegan]

15. Good to hear.

BTW, were I you, I'd still be drinking like a fiend, so you're one up on me.

I hope things get better for you.

[Pierre.Suave]

16. I decided that it was doing me no good

and deepening the hole I was in.

Plus, I refuse to let her have that power over me now.

onward and forward.

[flvegan]

21. Good. Also

I looked at that other thread, and it seems fairly clear from this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8135740&mesg_id=8136124

[Pierre.Suave]

25. You would think so wouldnt you...

but judging from the PMs my inbox was full of, it wasnt clear enough.

[Dr. Strange]

8. You know, that's exactly what an alcoholic would say.

Mel Gibson, too, come to think of it. He's always talking about how he's not an alcoholic. Are you Mel Gibson?

Hope things are getting better jasonc.

[Pierre.Suave]

14. yeah

and then the alcoholic would go get drunk.

I am not however.

A two day semi-bender does not an alcoholic make.

[crim son]

17. Yes. Well. Try to drink away the midlife crisis, a divorce, unemployment

and a financial crisis and see how you're judged. I have stories: I have people on ignore. FWIW I've never for the smallest particle of a second imagined you were an alcoholic and in fact I can think of only two or three Loungers who are, right now, in a position where they might think of getting help. It's the price you pay, dear friend, for turning to DU for support when you really need it most. Try threatening suicide and see what happens. No, don't.

Cynical Lisa. I feel for you, jasonc; please trust that there are a bunch of us who get it. :hug:

edited, glaring typo

[Pierre.Suave]

33. Crim son

I have nothing but hugs and love for you my dear.

:hug:

thank you.

[crim son]

34. I wasn't soliciting, but thank you.

Nonstop good vibes, thoughts and prayers going your way.

[Pierre.Suave]

38. Thanks

I know you weren't, But I feel like telling you that every time I see you.

[Oeditpus Rex]

18. Ever since I got sober, I've been saying

"Nobody's an alcoholic until they say they are."

Others should not make this judgment because they aren't inside the drinker's head.

It's part of why AA and I didn't get along too well.

[Pierre.Suave]

35. I wish you sobriety

thanks.

[Iggo]

44. Word. (n/t)

[Frank Cannon]

63. I have never met an alcoholic who could tell me when they became one

They just woke up one day and realized that somewhere along the line, something went horribly wrong.

Sometimes that epiphany doesn't come until the person ends up in jail, the hospital, or divorce court, often for the second or third time. Sometimes it never comes, because the person dies because of their problem.

Like you, I would never accuse anyone of being an alcoholic. That really must be for an individual to decide for themselves, but I do question how much control anyone really thinks they have over their drinking.

[Ptah]

19. ouch!

[Withywindle]

20. That's your business whether you are or aren't.

It's so weird the knee-jerk reaction to the drinking, isn't it?

I'm saying this as someone who thinks there's a good chance I might well be an alcoholic--and how did I get there? Decades of self-medicating from being a person with chronic depression and a lot of bad luck in love.

It's not wrong to get mad at the people who start ranting at you about your Tylenol-3 without addressing the massive lifelong repeated broken bones that made those pills such a minor but helpful palliative.

[Haole Girl]

22. hmm...

I never thought you were an alcoholic.

However, I wasn't kidding when I told you (in your original thread) to save your liver for your 40's!

:hug:

[Pierre.Suave]

30. I did not think you were

calling me one either. I got the joviality of your post.

[harmonicon]

23. you should keep drinking

the last time that I was broken up with, I was drunk for at least a week, maybe two - I mean, seriously, morning to night, drinking. I am also not an alcoholic. I don't even drink every week, for cryin' out loud.

[Pierre.Suave]

39. HA

it was considered. trust me.

[harmonicon]

42. I can imagine

Just remember that the bad times pass on by as well.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. My dear jasonc...

I've got your back, sweetie...:hug:

[Pierre.Suave]

26. Thank you Peggy

:hug:z back for one of the sweetest DUers.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. As one who has been the receiver of a "deluge of PMs" offering advice

on how to deal with my "situation" I look at it like this. They mean well. I, too, would assume that when someone makes a general Lounge announcement such as yours they are looking for support. I am only grateful that I didn't respond to the original post, nor did I send you a PM. I hereby promise I shall do nothing of the kind.

[Pierre.Suave]

36. MrsG

I really doubt you would send me a pm of the type I received...

[Critters2]

28. I just re-read that post, and I can see why people read it as they did.

Those who contacted you were just expressing concern, which is not all that surprising, considering that post.

Just let those people know that you aren't an alcoholic, and maybe thank them for their sincere concern.

Then I hope we can all move on.

Sorry about the breakup, btw.

[Lethe]

29. you're in denial, you worthless alchy

now apologize to me and then mow my lawn for penance. (also pick up a 6 pack on your way here for me to drink while i scrutinize the job you're doing on my lawn)

[Shine]

31. I'm really sorry to hear about the break-up, jason. That sucks.

:hug: I hope you are getting the emotional support you need. Take good care of yourself.

[KitchenWitch]

40. As a self avowed 'recovery nazi' I never thought you had a drinking problem.

When things are traumatic and painful, escape can be a sanity saving thing.

:hug:

You do what you need to do for yourself to get over this and move on.

[Pierre.Suave]

41. Thank you

KW.

[Solon]

43. That's ok, a while ago, I made a post about the fact that I was drinking alcohol for the first...

time in years. It wasn't a call for help post, just a, "Hey, this is interesting(to me)" post. Many posters assumed I fell off the wagon, as it were, when the reality was that I stopped drinking initially because it was too damn expensive, and oddly enough, it was soon after I turned 21. Talk about irony! :)

Sorry about your breakup, that just sucks. :(

[Inchworm]

45. I thought it was alchoholics that quit!

:rofl:

I'm still on teh wagon and had one of the crappiest days ever on Tuesday. That challenge was too easy. I think I'll tie one on Saturday night for sport.. into Sunday .. mebbe Monday :D

:silly:

:hi:

[ismnotwasm]

46. I thought you were a med student or something

You NEED alcohol to get through that.

(Sorry about your time of trial, hope you get through ok)

[mikeytherat]

47. "Do all of the challenges revolve around a drinking contest?"

"Come to think of it, they do."

"All right! Just like med school!"

Bender and Calculon, futurama


mikey_the_rat

[NJmaverick]

48. Isn't denial one of the symptoms?

:evilgrin:

[BeachBaby]

58. Smartass.

:spank:

[NJmaverick]

66. Who me?

O8)

[graywarrior]

49. I hear that all the time from newcomers in the rooms of AA

Welcome. We've been saving you a seat.

Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah!

[raccoon]

50. Everyone speaks from their experience. Those who are themselves, or have loved ones

who are recovering alcoholics, it would be natural for them to think that maybe you are an alcoholic.

By the way, I'm not saying you are or not.

[BarenakedLady]

51. I'm sure their intentions were good.

I would have just thanked them for their concern (maybe clarify) and left it at that. I would have felt good that people took the time to reach out to me. I'd never make someone feel badly for caring.

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. ...

:thumbsup:

[Resuscitated Ethics]

52. Why so defensive about drinking if there is no problem?

Alcoholism has never been clearly defined. wiki: "Alcoholism is a term with multiple and sometimes conflicting definitions. In common and historic usage, alcoholism refers to any condition that results in the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages despite the health problems and negative social consequences it causes."

It is defined LOOSELY. There is wiggle room for social drinkers. Maintenance drinkers and other drunks find this wiggle room uncomfortable and need to defend their drinking.

If a person feels compelled to defend their drinking they have a problem.

Fuck booze and booze apologists. Wanna get shitfaced? STAY OFF THE ROAD!

Every drinker with a drivers license has driven drunk. All drinkers are hypocrites when they say they don't drink and drive EVER.

Why brag about stopping if it is no big deal? What is noticeable here is the TOUCHY DEFENSIVENESS about drinking.

Anyone who wants to drink just does. Anyone who has to shout that they can handle it need to have their Rheingold chug-a-mugs confiscated.

[BeachBaby]

64. I never related the term "alcoholism" to the issue of consumption.

I know people who don't touch alcohol all week, but Friday night through Sunday night it's a free-for-all. It's become part of their routine. Out of that same group of weekend drinkers, I know of two who, once they got married, stopped the weekend partying - and never looked back. They weren't tempted, or going through withdrawal.

My cousin, who works in construction, had gotten in the habit of knocking off a 6-pack each night. I worried about him, since our grandmother died from alcoholism. Well, he ruptured some discs in his back and was required to take pain meds and thus, had to stop drinking the booze. He stopped as soon as they told him, with no problems whatsoever.

I always believed the term "alcoholic" to describe someone who has a DEPENDENCE to alcohol. They are the ones who will sneak flasks into work; hide bottles of liquor from their spouses; and then throw a holy fit if you confront the person because you're concerned about their habits. They're the ones who HAVE to have that drink before bed, or they can't sleep. And over the course of their lives, the amount increases, their liquor of choice is much less specific, and the reliance on it will have them driving drunk to a store in the middle of the night because the cupboards are bare.

IMO, there is no "wiggle room" for the term. Someone who consumes too much because they like the way it feels, ie., tailgaters at a football game, or the young 20-somethings who go out drinking every night for instance, doesn't automatically place them in the category of "alcoholics". What they're doing may not be responsible or healthy, but it's not an illness, either. Someone like myself, who hardly ever drinks, got myself plastered the night after my grandfather's funeral. I was absolutely devastated at his sudden death, and I wanted something to numb the pain, if only for a little while; so when my mother accused me of turning into HER mother (the alcoholic grandmother I mentioned above), I got pretty defensive - and it wasn't because I was in "denial", but because I was reacting the way most people do when they are being accused of something that simply isn't true.

Alcoholism = dependence to alcohol

[moriah]

67. A prime example of someone "drinking alcholically" but not an alcoholic.

You mentioned your grandfather's funeral. There's a long tradition in my family of "Irish wakes", and I know that even though I made my father go to his mother's funeral sober, I wasn't going to blame him for having a drink when he got home (or finishing the rest of the liquor cabinet off.)

Another time alcohol actually did some good was when a friend of mine said she wanted to get drunk to get out some of the pain from her uncle passing on -- once she got drunk, she said the real reason was because she needed to tell me her stepfather had been raping her and could not make herself do it any other way, that she'd been trying all week while she was visiting me and figured the booze would numb the pain enough so she could talk about it.

Because of my family history I am very hesitant to allow myself to use the numbness of alcohol to escape. But that's a rule for just me.

My view of what an "alcoholic" is -- a person who is psychologically addicted to the numbness. I've known a lot of heavy drinkers, but part of the reason they are not having "negative social consequences" is because they are not drinking to escape, they can put it down because they don't need it to escape. Yes, there is also physical addiction and physical dependence, but it's fairly rare among people who classify themselves as alcoholics from my understanding. It's the psychological factor that causes relapse, the habit of seeing the bottle as a way to escape from life.

[Resuscitated Ethics]

70. Like drinking itself defining 'alcoholic' is deeply personal

Everyone knows someone who should get off the sauce and doesn't. Whether you are a disease- or a social- theory believer it is undeniable that loads of people get fucked up by the liquors. But much smarter minds than mine are arguing that point in professional journals as we speak. No one knows for sure, disease theory of alcoholism is still hypothetical. I firmly believe that it is a combination of nature/nurture/ and left-handedness!

If someone other than the drinker says there is a problem, what do they know? Does that mean they are sick and tired of 'enabling' the drinker?

Fuck booze: in my opinion it doesn't heal, it brings out the worst in people. They need to plan to get plowed: plan to have the license and registration in the same spot(with the mints). Some drinkers never get 'wild', they can go for years with just a little politeness and planning.

There either is or isn't a problem: parsing definitions of alcoholism is for the health professionals.

[moriah]

65. ... maybe because people are misunderstanding cause and effect, and considering cause....

Recap: JasonC got dumped. It sucked. He had been talking about the breakup here. He hit the bottle pretty heavily for a few days. When he quit hitting the bottle realizing that hangover really doesn't go well with heartache, he mentioned it so that people who cared about him knew that he was starting to move on.

Then, he gets a deluge of PMs essentially accusing him of being responsible for the breakup!

Not exactly pleasant things to read, especially with his bruised heart no longer numbed by ethanol.

As I said in a previous post, JasonC admitted that he was "drinking alcoholically" by the definition that I was taught. He realized that hitting the bottle to escape wasn't healthy anymore. I can see the confusion and why it occurred. But I can also see why being accused of causing the breakup he is so upset about would not make him a happy camper.

I admit that I'm a bit of a nazi in the way I monitor my own drinking, but that's because I grew up "in the Program" and know my family history. My friend laughed at me when I switched to cranberry juice when I realized I was drinking because I was feeling down -- "You're not an alcoholic, you're the furthest thing I've seen from one!" Yes, and I intend to keep it that way. I like being a cheap drunk, too -- four drinks and I'm totally on the floor, so I stick with two. My bar tab is always less than my friends who hear Johnnie Walker singing them love songs.

And to this day, after having made lots and lots of REALLY stupid decisions, I still think the stupidest decision I ever made was to drive drunk. No accident, didn't get caught, nobody got hurt, but it was still flippin' STUPID.

[Pierre.Suave]

68. ...

:eyes:

[zanne]

53. I know it's hard to convince people that you're NOT something...

Don't worry about what people are saying. If you're not an alcoholic, you know it. That's all that matters.

[madinmaryland]

54. jasonc. Didn't Larry Craig say something similar to that last summer??

:P

:hi:

[Pierre.Suave]

72. If that were it

I would not have this awesome Sen. Larry Craig bobblefoot...

:P

[demmiblue]

55. I don't see the big deal...

you were hurt, you decided to try to numb the pain through drink for a few days, and then you decided that this was not a good way to face your pain. I don't see how that makes you an alcoholic.

:shrug:

[malta blue]

56. ...

:hug:

I know you're not. I never doubted you for a moment - really. :pals:

[Symarip]

57. Man, all the drama I'm reading upthread

Might cause someone to say, fuck it, and have a drink.

[Dogtown]

60. Sorry you're being hassled, jasonc

I thought something like that might happen when I saw your post.

It was clear to me you'd got gotten drunk while upset and when you sobered up you were embarrassed.

A recovering chemical dependent person would plug your statement into their own experience data-bank and interpret it as the epiphany or "moment of clarity" they had experienced. They just sought to support you, as they had been supported when they hit bottom.

All just a mix-up of perceptions. We're all on the same side, but the smoke's too thick sometimes...

[IndianaJones]

61. chicken - egg. all that matters is that you recognized it as a problem and are doing something. nt.

[moriah]

62. I grew up "in the Program"....

My dad is truly an alcoholic, my mother marries them and occasionally drinks like them.

Because they couldn't find a babysitter, I started going to Alateen at age 8. (They joked then that they needed to make an Alatot.)

I drink occasionally.

Why, if both parents are alcoholics?

The biggest thing Alateen taught me is that even if you drink one drink to escape, you are "drinking alcoholically". That's not meaning you're an alcoholic, but that you are using alcohol in a way that is not healthy. When you drink alcoholically you are using it as a crutch -- and that's when it gets dangerous. Sure, there are physical withdrawal symptoms that long-term drunks go through, but looking at that bottle as a way to make yourself feel better for a little while -- to ignore the bills or the kids or the pain of heartbreak -- that's what makes more people relapse than anything else.

I've caught myself a few times. I went out to a bar with a friend when I was feeling down, had a drink, then switched to cranberry juice when I realized I wasn't drinking just to enhance a fun night. During a bad part of my marriage, I went out and got a bottle of wine. After half a glass, I stopped, looked at it, and poured the rest down the sink -- and I no longer drink alone, which has fixed that problem. I won't let myself get into that pattern, but it's because I recognize it.

JasonC, I know you are not an alcoholic, and I wasn't one of those who PMed you about it. But I hope you will be understanding when I say I am glad that you are no longer drinking alcoholically.

[BeachBaby]

69. Your post caught my attention.

You said:

"That's not meaning you're an alcoholic, but that you are using alcohol in a way that is not healthy. When you drink alcoholically you are using it as a crutch -- and that's when it gets dangerous."

Later in your post, you said:

"I went out to a bar with a friend when I was feeling down, had a drink, then switched to cranberry juice when I realized I wasn't drinking just to enhance a fun night."

Since you've been through the program, and I've never experienced that, I would sincerely like to ask you what the difference is.

Are you saying that it's "healthy" to drink to "enhance" a fun night? If it's a fun night, why is alchohol needed at all?

Furthermore, why is it "unhealthy" to occasionally have a drink when life's troubles have a person just about ready to explode? IMO, if someone's heart rate and blood pressure are rising due to life's hassles, and a drink calms them down, it would be alot healthier to have a drink than to continue that level of stress for the remaining hours of the day/night.

But I guess an even better question, based on what you stated above, would be: When IS it "healthy" to have a drink? And according to who?

From what you've said about Alateen, the organization seems to not grasp the concept of "Everything in moderation".

[moriah]

71. Alateen is a bit different than AA.

Alateen is supposed to be a program for the children of alcoholics, so they can:

1) Talk to each other -- they know they aren't going through this alone, that they aren't the only one.

2) Learn some of the tendencies that you learn/inherit when you have an alcoholic parent -- they don't say that every person who has alcoholism in the family line will become an alcoholic, but that living in a household with addiction teaches addictive behavior patterns, and that it's important to recognize them especially for people who may have a genetic predisposition.

3) See that their parents drinking is not their fault, learn to cope with their parents drinking, and learn a bit about recovery. They teach that alcoholism is a "family disease" because each member of the family manifests the symptoms. A wife pouring her husband's liquor down the drain, or a kid burying his mother's booze in the yard, are each suffering from the disease of alcoholism, even if they aren't the ones drinking. When you live with a drinker you "enable" them, you blame yourself for not being good enough or smart enough or crafty enough or lovable enough to make them stop drinking, and you blame them. Alateen teaches that enabling doesn't work, that a person has to "hit bottom" on their own, and that as much as you may hate the drink, the drinker is suffering too. And most importantly, that you didn't cause them to drink, you can't change them, and you can't control them -- there is nothing that is your fault, and the only thing you can control is yourself.

The end goal of Alateen is to help teens deal with the drinking, regardless of if the drinker is in recovery or not, until they get out on their own -- and once they are out on their own, hopefully they won't repeat the same patterns their parents did.

Eating, computer use, etc.... you can become psychologically addicted to anything if you have an addictive personality. They teach that for some people already addicted to alcohol, just one drink can make them get back into addictive patterns, because they are so deeply ingrained. But that for the majority of people who drink, they can use it in a way that is not likely to create addiction or dependence.

---------

Alcohol is never "needed", and if it is, that's when you get into dangerous territory. I could easily never drink. Frankly, most of the time when I drink it's because others are drinking too, and being the DD all of the time gets a bit tiresome. I don't particularly enjoy being smashed.

As I said, I believe in a response to you about your grandfather's funeral, there are times the numb of alcohol is a good thing. By definition, it is "drinking alcoholically", but it's when it becomes a pattern, a prime coping mechanism, a habit... that's when a person is an alcoholic in my opinion. When they need it to cope with life in general.

[CreekDog]

73. The original post in that thread was a little ambiguous, so it was hard to tell if you were

That said, I didn't jump to conclusions.

I am glad that you are going to get through this, and I'm glad you are not going to continue drinking in response to it.

I'm very sorry to hear about the engagement.

[HEyHEY]

74. Sounds like denial!

;-)

[Pierre.Suave]

75. Isnt "denial"

a river in egypt?

:P